Tube strike. Too far this time?

[TCR4x4]

Ban unions... Job done.

Don't like the job or terms. Go find another job, plenty of people around who would love to fill your shoes.

 

[bindex]

Ban unions... Job done... .

Sorry for the partial quote...

Stupid idea! So you don't want weekends off, paid holidays, sick pay, maternity leave, collective bargaining etc etc?
Do you think the bosses gave you those out of the goodness of their heart?

You NEED strong unions, now more than ever.

 

[Cobra]

So you don't want weekends off, paid holidays, sick pay, maternity leave, collective bargaining etc etc?

I could be wrong and I stand to be corrected, but wasn't a lot of that do do with the EU? ( Love it or hate it the EU that is )

Along with standardising driving hours for trucks and coaches,
Yes I know the UK is about the only country that abides by these rules

Don't get me wrong, we need negotiating bodies but when they have the power to bring the capital to a virtual stand still, at will, that is roads, by the shear volume of traffic due to the rail strike,
Something needs to be sorted

 

[bindex]

Unions were negotiating conditions for their members long before the EU was even thought of. And it's not all about London you know

It's all politically driven really, from both sides. That's the really stupid bit

 

[TCR4x4]

Sorry for the partial quote...

Stupid idea! So you don't want weekends off, paid holidays, sick pay, maternity leave, collective bargaining etc etc?
Do you think the bosses gave you those out of the goodness of their heart?

You NEED strong unions, now more than ever.

Ive never been a part of a union and never will.
If I want changes to my terms of employment, Ill ask my boss. If he says no, Ill put up with it or find another job, simple.

Holding the country to ransom is a disgrace and shouldn't be allowed.

 

[dejongj]

Sorry for the partial quote...

Stupid idea! So you don't want weekends off, paid holidays, sick pay, maternity leave, collective bargaining etc etc?
Do you think the bosses gave you those out of the goodness of their heart?

You NEED strong unions, now more than ever.

I've never been part of a union, I would never be part of a union. I rather negotiate the terms that suits me opposed to the lowest common denominator.

People need to take some responsibility and let the free market do its thing without artificial interference.

 

[Cobra]

Unions were negotiating conditions for their members long before the EU was even thought of.

And still managed to bring the country to a stand still, or darkness

And it's not all about London you know

Absolutely, I care little for it either, but it could have been just as easily any of the major cities

's all politically driven really, from both sides. That's the really stupid bit

Couldn't agree more

 

[bindex]

No-one is holding the country to ransom, they're merely withdrawing their labour. If you can't do that then it's tantamount to slavery.

If the free market is so important should we have let the banks fail instead of bailing them out?

Time for a change I think but obviously we're unlikely to agree on that

 

[Cobra]

hould we have let the banks fail instead of bailing them out?

I'm tempted to say yes, but of course that really is totally impracticable, however that is a another "institution" that needs a good sort out

No-one is holding the country to ransom,

I don't remember using the word ransom.
Just the fact that they managed to bring the capital to a virtual stand still by with drawing their labour,
Obviously they will return to normal duties, when the ransom is paid though

 

[dejongj]

No-one is holding the country to ransom, they're merely withdrawing their labour. If you can't do that then it's tantamount to slavery.

If the free market is so important should we have let the banks fail instead of bailing them out?

Time for a change I think but obviously we're unlikely to agree on that

Yes we should have. It's not slavery at all, they can negotiate and they are free to find employment elsewhere if they hate it so much.

34 hours per week, 42 days leave per annum, work life balance issues? Hmm yeah right. Calling it slavery is just ridiculous.

 

[bindex]

Sorry I was referring to TCR4x4 post 85 about the ransom. I really should have shown the quote.

I often laugh about free market economy though... (again sorry about the partial quote only)

People need to take some responsibility and let the free market do its thing without artificial interference.

If the free market had done its thing we'd be in an even bigger mess. Funny how free markets are wonderful until it all goes pear shaped.

 

[Gaz J]

So if no one is going to be forced to work the nights shift cover who's going to drive the trains if they all refuse?

 

[viv1969]

So if no one is going to be forced to work the nights shift cover who's going to drive the trains if they all refuse?

Most won't refuse.
Just as most didn't vote for strike action.

 

[Cobra]

So if no one is going to be forced to work the nights shift cover who's going to drive the trains if they all refuse?

I can't wait until they are fully automated, ( The night trains) just to hear the drivers bitch that their overtime has been cut

 

[Cobra]

Just as most didn't vote for strike action.

Has this new rule about strike action not kicked in yet?
where 50% is it? have to turn out for the ballot?
I guess not?

 

[bindex]

Most won't refuse.
Just as most didn't vote for strike action.

Really? Quote from the Morning Star...
All four unions representing workers on London Underground overwhelmingly voted for strike action with RMT, delivering a mandate of over 91 per cent.

Just how big a mandate do you want?

 

[bindex]

Has this new rule about strike action not kicked in yet?
where 50% is it? have to turn out for the ballot?
I guess not?

I'd like to see that rule applied to parliament. We'd have very few MP's

 

[Cobra]

I'd like to see that rule applied to parliament. We'd have very few MP's

 

[dejongj]

If the free market had done its thing we'd be in an even bigger mess. Funny how free markets are wonderful until it all goes pear shaped.

Why do you say that?

We will never know as they haven't allowed to be a free market. There is always government interference causing an imbalance.

 

[viv1969]

91% of votes cast, yes.
As I understand it, of the total number of union members, the majority (ie in excess of 50%) did not cast a vote either for or against.

 

[dejongj]

So if no one is going to be forced to work the nights shift cover who's going to drive the trains if they all refuse?

They won't refuse, besides they'll be recruiting more drivers specifically for the night shift. This is merely about an interim period such that they can deliver the product to the paying customers. What a shocking concept right to deliver what your customer want who pay for your salary

 

[Cobra]

91% of votes cast, yes.
As I understand it, of the total number of union members, the majority (ie in excess of 50%) did not cast a vote either for or against.

So if that's correct, yet again its a clear case of the minority rules

 

[bindex]

Why do you say that?

We will never know as they haven't allowed to be a free market. There is always government interference causing an imbalance.

You've got a valid point. Maybe we should let them all go bust next time? Perhaps that's unfair though, if you're right the markets will sort themselves out.
I'd suspect it would be utter chaos for a few years but that's only my opinion.

 

[dejongj]

91% of votes cast, yes.
As I understand it, of the total number of union members, the majority (ie in excess of 50%) did not cast a vote either for or against.

I understand it was a 44% turn out. So 91% is indeed an overwhelming majority, making it about 36% of the members saying yes, with the remaining 64% not giving a toss either way

They'll get the drivers, just sack the militant ones

 

[dejongj]

You've got a valid point. Maybe we should let them all go bust next time? Perhaps that's unfair though, if you're right the markets will sort themselves out.
I'd suspect it would be utter chaos for a few years but that's only my opinion.

To be fair in reality there was hardly a bailout bar the main one. I don think it would have mattered that much. The others would have sorted it out, but hey if someone offers to help why use your own cash.

 

[Cobra]

making it about 36% of the members saying yes

Minority rule yet again

with the remaining 64% not giving a toss either way

And that's the problem isn't it? apathy, allowing the minority to guide their lives

 

[viv1969]

I understand it was a 44% turn out. So 91% is indeed an overwhelming majority, making it about 36% of the members saying yes, with the remaining 64% not giving a toss either way

They'll get the drivers, just sack the militant ones

Yes. An overwhelming majority of a minority turnout.
Whether the rest voted no or did not vote at all, the majority of the total number of union members did not vote for strike action.
That's what I was getting at.

 

[bindex]

91% of votes cast, yes.
As I understand it, of the total number of union members, the majority (ie in excess of 50%) did not cast a vote either for or against.

Again from the Morning star 29th May...

"RMT, whose members voted for strike action by an 80 per cent margin on a 60 per cent turnout, said the offer “fails to recognise the massive pressures staff are working under"

Is that a big enough mandate for you?

 

[viv1969]

Minority rule yet again


And that's the problem isn't it? apathy, allowing the minority to guide their lives

For many it's not apathy.
There's still fear of reprisal...of rocking the union boat.

 

[nilagin]

So if no one is going to be forced to work the nights shift cover who's going to drive the trains if they all refuse?

The ones with the guts to say to his mates, "Yes, I'll take that extra £200 per night and £500 bonus as well", I have done similar in the past loads of times, union and workmates didn't like it, but my workmates soon relented and joined in too.
I've been a union member for 34yrs and the union has tried (sometimes succeeding) to shaft us as instead of help us, they have tried to fix votes on strike action (back in the days when a show of hands sufficed). They have done deals with the company short changing us on our pension scheme. Even in my current job, several years ago the company built a new building to do an identical function but decided to pay the people in the new building at a higher rate. At first there was resistance from the union and workers, but some people applied for the jobs and go them, then the company became interested in allowing everyone to be paid at the higher rate regardless of whether they were in the old or new building, but the union keep blocking it.
Needless to say I have very little faith in the unions. As I wrote in an earlier post, they need to wake up and see how the world really is because if they keep making unrealistic demands companies will just shut up shop and move their concerns elsewhere. Up until 2002 Ford built cars at Dagenham, but due to the unions militancy and being unrealistic, Ford pulled the plug and ceased car production.

 

[Gaz J]

They
won't refuse, besides they'll be recruiting more drivers specifically for the night shift. This is merely about an interim period such that they can deliver the product to the paying customers. What a shocking concept right to deliver what your customer want who pay for your salary

Most won't refuse.
Just as most didn't vote for strike action.

And you know that they won't refuse, how? Because you say they won't.

And if they are recruiting drivers to specifically work nightshirt then they deserve every penny they get because working long periods of nightshifts is crap.

 

[Cobra]

For many it's not apathy.
There's still fear of reprisal...of rocking the union boat.

Ok so the minority are ruling by fear then?
If that is the case something needs to be done.
Maybe this paying subs by DD and not straight from your wages maybe the turning point

 

[Gaz J]

The ones with the guts to say to his mates, "Yes, I'll take that extra £200 per night and £500 bonus as well", I have done similar in the past loads of times, union and workmates didn't like it, but my workmates soon relented and joined in too.
I've been a union member for 34yrs and the union has tried (sometimes succeeding) to shaft us as instead of help us, they have tried to fix votes on strike action (back in the days when a show of hands sufficed). They have done deals with the company short changing us on our pension scheme. Even in my current job, several years ago the company built a new building to do an identical function but decided to pay the people in the new building at a higher rate. At first there was resistance from the union and workers, but some people applied for the jobs and go them, then the company became interested in allowing everyone to be paid at the higher rate regardless of whether they were in the old or new building, but the union keep blocking it.
Needless to say I have very little faith in the unions. As I wrote in an earlier post, they need to wake up and see how the world really is because if they keep making unrealistic demands companies will just shut up shop and move their concerns elsewhere. Up until 2002 Ford built cars at Dagenham, but due to the unions militancy and being unrealistic, Ford pulled the plug and ceased car production.

thats your side of it, I'm sure that others that worked with you would have something different to say.

 

[dejongj]

And you know that they won't refuse, how? Because you say they won't.

And if they are recruiting drivers to specifically work nightshirt then they deserve every penny they get because working long periods of nightshifts is crap.

But the strike is not about the money and I know that because there is a long queu of people wanting to be a driver, AND the turn out whilst good wasn't a majority for all unions. So when it comes down to it and they realise that the deal is actually pretty darn good, and they realise they could never get anything better else where then yet I think it is a pretty sure fire and well reasoned assessment that they'll go for it. And if not, sack them.

 

[tom24]

I can't follow why anyone would oppose workers asking for the best conditions and pay and using the only means they have to obtain same.
Shouldn't everyone be doing the same?
I'm not trolling, i just don't follow why people don't support others fighting for their rights.

 

[Cobra]

And if they are recruiting drivers to specifically work nightshirt then they deserve every penny they get because working long periods of nightshifts is crap.

I assume they are on the same hours as the daytime guys?
eg, Start at 9pm do your 7 hours and be in bed not long after 4am,
I did a similar shift a few years ago, I loved it, where do I sign up for this train driving lark again?

 

[dejongj]

thats your side of it, I'm sure that others that worked with you would have something different to say.

What would they have to say of it when the work has left the country?

 

[Cobra]

i just don't follow why people don't support others fighting for their rights.

They certainly seem to have more rights and better conditions than a lot of other people in transport.
They wanna do a few shifts hauling a 44 tonne trailer around the country for a lot more hours and a lot less money!
And they don't even go near the M25 either!

 

[Cobra]

What would they have to say of it when the work has left the country?

Et oh! lets not go there

 

[mrgubby]

i just don't follow why people don't support others fighting for their rights.

I think it's more the fact that they are holding people to ransom, asking for EVEN more money for what is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a **** easy job.