Reasons to vote UKIP

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ST4 said:
It is how people such as yourself, choose to interprate the UKIP movement and controlling immigration. I have friends from a wide range of ethnic backgrounds and gladly visit foreign countries, buy foreign cars (I've owned Japanese, German, and now a Swedish car). Can you please tell me how that is xenophobia?
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Well you certainly don't devote an equal amount of time here spouting off about British people abroad (no doubt you label them as ex-pats and not immigrants) who do exactly the kind of thing in other countries do you?
 
UKIP are a joke, and as long as they are fronted by a man who thinks lines like this: “Jimmy Savile and now HS2, Stoke Mandeville has had it all!” are acceptable in public meetings, they will remain a carnival freak show.
They may take a seat or two at the election, being voted in by those who think it's trendy to vote UKIP, but they'll never hold water in the long run.
They have no policies that can be taken seriously.
They have no candidtates that can be taken seriously (many of them having jumped ship from other parties to ride the carnival train).
They're a comedy roadshow.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Well you certainly don't devote an equal amount of time here spouting off about British people abroad (no doubt you label them as ex-pats and not immigrants) who do exactly the kind of thing in other countries do you?
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Expats/immigrants. All the same. I've always mentioned points based values based on assets/skills and the needs of the country. These British people abroad will either be wealthy, or working in skills shortage areas. I also don't hear about them crying like babies over the customs, language of the country they are living/working in but I am happy to be corrected if that is the case.

I have to admit, I saw a post from the EDL re Expats division, the irony factor was epic.
 
ST4 said:
Expats/immigrants. All the same. I've always mentioned points based values based on assets/skills and the needs of the country. These British people abroad will either be wealthy, or working in skills shortage areas. I also don't hear about them crying like babies over the customs, language of the country they are living/working in but I am happy to be corrected if that is the case.

I have to admit, I saw a post from the EDL re Expats division, the irony factor was epic.
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Many of them live on the benefits handouts provided by the country they live in.
 
ST4 said:
Expats/immigrants. All the same. I've always mentioned points based values based on assets/skills and the needs of the country. These British people abroad will either be wealthy, or working in skills shortage areas. I also don't hear about them crying like babies over the customs, language of the country they are living/working in but I am happy to be corrected if that is the case.

I have to admit, I saw a post from the EDL re Expats division, the irony factor was epic.
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Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments. Source.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments. Source.
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The point is a lot of non EU nationals come here looking for benefits too.

Indeed the Mayor of Calais claimed their town was overun with people trying to come here "for the benefits".

In saying that, if immigration laws were tighter, we wouldn't be shafting other countries with our own umemployed.

Look at the table, we have more EU nationals claiming benefits as a whole in the UK, than we have exported. Look at the pale blue bars, then the dark blue ones...
 
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ST4 said:
The point is a lot of non EU nationals come here looking for benefits too.

Indeed the Mayor of Calais claimed their town was overun with people trying to come here "for the benefits".

In saying that, if immigration laws were tighter, we wouldn't be shafting other countries with our own umemployed.
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No Steve, the point is it happens both ways. You don't seem to mind when British sponge off of other states, yet you get on your anti-immigration to the UK high horse at every opportunity. Seems like there is some xenophobia there to me.
 
ST4 said:
I have to admit, I saw a post from the EDL re Expats division, the irony factor was epic.
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Much like the ironic comment I saw on the BBC's Have Your Say website a few yeras ago: "I was fed up with the number of immigrants in the UK so I moved to Canada".

ST4 said:
I also don't hear about them crying like babies over the customs, language of the country they are living/working in
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I have British friends who have moved to Spain. They live in a predominently British populated area, don't mix with the Spanish much and haven't learned much of the language (however - they do not 'cry like babies' over it!).

Ricardodaforce said:
You don't seem to mind when British sponge off of other states, yet you get on your anti-immigration to the UK high horse at every opportunity. Seems like there is some xenophobia there to me.
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Isn't it true that there are almost as many Brits living in other European countries than there are European non Brits living in Britain?


Steve.
 
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Ricardodaforce said:
No Steve, the point is it happens both ways. You don't seem to mind when British sponge off of other states, yet you get on your anti-immigration to the UK high horse at every opportunity. Seems like there is some xenophobia there to me.
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I saw an article the other day that wondered why when a Brit moves abroad they are 'ex-pats' but when someone comes here they are an 'immigrant'.
 
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Steve Smith said:
I have British friends who have moved to Spain. They live in a predominently British populated area, don't mix with the Spanish much and haven't learned much of the language (however - they do not 'cry like babies' over it!).
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Quite, however, do you think they actively try to change things for the people there. I concede they often fail to intergrate but they are older and probably not alive for that long. They do however bring in a lot of money and wealth. That has its postives and downsides too.


Steve Smith said:
Isn't it true that there are almost as many Brits living in other European countries than there are European non Brits living in Britain?


Steve.
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Lets say the amounts are equal and these exported brits are spread accross say 11 states. Then these 11 states export to us, the one state, the same amount of peple. Per head (bearing in mind we are a small country) we have a lot more people from abroad here than we export.

Ricardodaforce said:
No Steve, the point is it happens both ways. You don't seem to mind when British sponge off of other states, yet you get on your anti-immigration to the UK high horse at every opportunity. Seems like there is some xenophobia there to me.
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Re read my post. Look at the numbers involved in the Gaurdian link and you'll see that we have the lions share of benefit seekers. Look at the table. The numbers don't lie. There is a greater number of non UK but EU nationals claiming benefits in the UK than there is UK nationals claiming benefits abroad.

What other countries choose to pay our benefit seekers over there is of no consquence to me but every consequence to the tax payers of that country and I'd understand completely if they were outraged about it.

And you said I was anti immigration, I am not. You wish to paint me as such. I am for "controlled" immigration on a points based system based on skills and assets that treats everyone the same regardless of the country they come in from. The present system favours EU based nationals, not ones outwith the EU.
 
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Ricardodaforce said:
Lets say the amounts are equal and these exported brits are spread accross say 11 states. Then these 11 states export to us, the one state, the same amount of peple. Per head (bearing in mind we are a small country) we have a lot more people from abroad here than we export.
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But people from the other ten states don't only come to Britain, they go to the other nine as well.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
But people from the other ten states don't only come to Britain, they go to the other nine as well.


Steve.
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Look at the table and add up the numbers in each column

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/19/-sp-thousands-britons-claim-benefits-eu

Seems to me we pay out many more people who aren't from here than other countries do for UK nationals.

As I said, nothing wrong with immigration, but it needs controlled on a skills/assets based system. That's all.
 
ST4 said:
The point is a lot of non EU nationals come here looking for benefits too.

Indeed the Mayor of Calais claimed their town was overun with people trying to come here "for the benefits".
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do they? Again the numbers don't really support that........

Source - maybe read the whole thing

Does the UK have more asylum seekers than most countries?
No it does not. With an estimated 109,600 asylum applications, Germany was the largest recipient of new asylum claims in 2013. The United States of America was second with 84,400 asylum applications, followed by South Africa (70,000), France (60,200), and Sweden (54,300). By comparison, the UK received 23,507 new applications for asylum by the end of 2013.
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Assuming as you've quoted the mayor of Calais you refer to asylum seekers. Can you provide any further info as to what you mean by 'a lot' if you meant something else?
 
boyfalldown said:
do they? Again the numbers don't really support that........

Source - maybe read the whole thing



Assuming as you've quoted the mayor of Calais you refer to asylum seekers. Can you provide any further info as to what you mean by 'a lot' if you meant something else?
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Reading your post above, you need to consider the size of the UK too. Sounds like Germany and France have BIGGER problems than us. Never mind the 100k plus undocumented illegal people that are here

http://news.sky.com/story/1355948/illegal-migrants-too-scared-to-get-treatment

All I am saying is we need tighter border control and more control over who we do and do not let in. Given the strength of the UKIP movement, I doubt I am alone.
 
ST4 said:
Never mind the 100k plus undocumented illegal people that are here
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If it's undocumented, how do you know about it?!!

ST4 said:
Given the strength of the UKIP movement
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We will find out in a couple of months.

As far as I'm concerned, any vote UKIP gets is a vote the conservatives won't be getting - so a good thing!


Srteve.
 
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ST4 said:
Reading your post above, you need to consider the size of the UK too. Sounds like Germany and France have BIGGER problems than us. Never mind the 100k plus undocumented illegal people that are here
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Population wise Germany is not proportionatly bigger. France its smaller. GDP of both is not proportionately bigger. I guess on landmass they are though
 
ST4 said:
Another reason to consider the UKIP movement.
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I considered it. For 3 Seconds. After all a party that doesn't do well in London due to the "more media-savvy and educated" electorate must be worth voting for. They've insulted no-one with that statement. Of course if their core appeal is thick people................
 
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Define media savvy? Those that read the Gaurdian and Independent as opposed to the Telegraph, Times, DM, Express? Those that use social media, those that read their news on the web? What does Media savvy really mean?

Define educated, educated in what. Art History at Uni, Accountancy, finished school, life? Why should those in London be any different to those lets say, in Glasgow? Why should educational background change your political leanings. I know universities seem to breed racidal lefties quite often, and anti war types, and those in steady safe employment are less radical?
 
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ST4 said:
Define media savvy? Those that read the Gaurdian and Independent as opposed to the Telegraph, Times, DM, Express? Those that use social media, those that read their news on the web? What does Media savvy really mean?

Define educated, educated in what. Art History at Uni, Accountancy, finished school, life? Why should those in London be any different to those lets say, in Glasgow? Why should educational background change your political leanings. I know universities seem to breed racidal lefties quite often, and anti war types, and those in steady safe employment are less radical?
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So don't you think its just a teensy bit insulting to suggest that those outside of London are less educated? BTW they were UKIP's words, not mine
 
boyfalldown said:
I considered it. For 3 Seconds. After all a party that doesn't do well in London due to the "more media-savvy and educated" electorate must be worth voting for. They've insulted no-one with that statement. Of course if their core appeal is thick people................
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So considering something for 3 seconds, is reasonable & balanced?

Calling someone who wants change & doesn't agree with the scaremongerers, thick..............another good reason the system needs a shake up!
(btw, politicians, BBC, lefties etc telling folk NOT to vote for something will hopefully have the adverse reaction)
 
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OldCarlos said:
So considering something for 3 seconds, is reasonable & balanced?

Calling someone who wants change & doesn't agree with the scaremongerers, thick..............another good reason the system needs a shake up!
(btw, politicians, BBC, lefties etc telling folk NOT to vote for something will hopefully have the adverse reaction)
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Yes, I thought so. I can think of hundreds of other things I wouldn't do that take me even less time to consider.

I didn't call anyone thick. Its the implication of the UK quote. We did worse in London because people there are better educated. The implication being that they did better elsewhere because epeople aren't so well educated. Their words, not mine....

BTW I'm a leftie. What has the hand I use to write with got to do with how people should, or shouldn't vote?
 
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I've not looked but do these reports also take into account other types of benefits such as the NHS?
 
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boyfalldown said:
We did worse in London because people there are better educated. ?
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is there actually any proof thast people in london are better educated ? - personally I've come across an awful lot of londoners who are thicker than a whale sandwich - also I'd have expected ukip to do well amongst the london working class particularly in places like tower hamlets (which has the highest proprtion of non white residents of anywhere in the uk).

I'd suspect the reason they did less well than expected in london has nothing to do with the intelect of the london voter and more to do with who their london candidates are, and who they are up against

course i expect virtually anything they say to be ill thought out tosh so i'm not suprised their stated reason doesnt make sense
 
boyfalldown said:
Yes, I thought so. I can think of hundreds of other things I wouldn't do that take me even less time to consider.

I didn't call anyone thick. Its the implication of the UK quote. We did worse in London because people there are better educated. The implication being that they did better elsewhere because epeople aren't so well educated. Their words, not mine....

BTW I'm a leftie. What has the hand I use to write with got to do with how people should, or shouldn't vote?
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How can ANYONE decide in 3 seconds?
A ridiculous statement that shows you aren't open to a sensible debate & certainly aren't going to change your views, no matter what the policies are, or possible benefits for the masses or the country as a whole.
 
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big soft moose said:
is there actually any proof thast people in london are better educated ? - personally I've come across an awful lot of londoners who are thicker than a whale sandwich - also I'd have expected ukip to do well amongst the london working class particularly in places like tower hamlets (which has the highest proprtion of non white residents of anywhere in the uk).
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None at all. Thats just their words. I agree, and I'm sure the spread of 2 short planks is the same across the UK. If I had to guess a reason its the higher proportion of immigrant voters in London, they're not exactly preaching to the converted in many boroughs

big soft moose said:
I'd suspect the reason they did less well than expected in london has nothing to do with the intelect of the london voter and more to do with who their london candidates are, and who they are up against

course i expect virtually anything they say to be ill thought out tosh so i'm not suprised their stated reason doesnt make sense
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Virtually everything? Absolutley everything surely
 
OldCarlos said:
How can ANYONE decide in 3 seconds?
A ridiculous statement that shows you aren't open to a sensible debate & certainly aren't going to change your views, no matter what the policies are, or possible benefits for the masses or the country as a whole.
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Actually this sent to my wife did it for me. Of course I had to think about it after that. You'll note the name. I needed help filling in the ballot paper too. Jeez. Sorry you find it offensive that I don't like being treated as if I'm stupid. But hey ho

4564-1399627198-6c62eb73be802d2ba6d35b9b9c5423b0.jpg
 
boyfalldown said:
Actually this sent to my wife did it for me. Of course I had to think about it after that. You'll note the name. I needed help filling in the ballot paper too. Jeez. Sorry you find it offensive that I don't like being treated as if I'm stupid. But hey ho

4564-1399627198-6c62eb73be802d2ba6d35b9b9c5423b0.jpg
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hang about - "cheap labour pushes down british wages" isnt this from the party that wants to repeal the NMW because its harming british business competivenness ? :confused:

(if theres a freepost adress tape it to a brick and send it back to them ;) )
 
boyfalldown said:
Actually this sent to my wife did it for me. Of course I had to think about it after that. You'll note the name. I needed help filling in the ballot paper too. Jeez. Sorry you find it offensive that I don't like being treated as if I'm stupid. But hey ho

4564-1399627198-6c62eb73be802d2ba6d35b9b9c5423b0.jpg
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:LOL: looking for any excuse not to vote for them.

I guess it must have taken 3 seconds or more just to read that, never mind think about the main content. :rolleyes:
 
boyfalldown said:
Virtually everything? Absolutley everything surely
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I agree with them about HS2 - and to be honest I don't find all their other stated policies abhorent.... its just the thinly vieled racism, and general utter f***wittery of many of their candidates that puts me off
 
Hugh, every party will treat you as if you are stupid, don't take it personally though they do it to everybody ;)
 
OldCarlos said:
:LOL: looking for any excuse not to vote for them.

I guess it must have taken 3 seconds or more just to read that, never mind think about the main content. :rolleyes:
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mmm send a mailing like that. I must rush off with it in my hand (for the handy insturctions) down the the nearest polling booth...Oh wait. My 'excuse' for not voting for them is because I find the thinly veiled homophobia, sexism and racism abhorent. You don't see it that way I guess. Being a Londoner, and therefore media savvy and well educated I didn't need 3 seconds to think about that either ;)

But please stop making out I'm closed minded because I don't and can't support that. Cause I don't think you're many of the things UKIP stands for just because you wish a while more to think about it
 
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Who are the senior Ukip people who would form a government if Ukip were to get into power?

Who would Farage have to choose from for Secretary of State for...

Defense
Education
Health

And who might be Chancellor?
 
boyfalldown said:
Being a Londoner, and therefore media savvy and well educated
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Media savvy!?!? ROFLMAO You talking about the BBC, Telegraph, Guardian, Private Eye.........? You definitely are entrenched & closed minded. ;)
Can you point me in the direction of an impartial source of media, please?
 
OldCarlos said:
Media savvy!?!? ROFLMAO You talking about the BBC, Telegraph, Guardian, Private Eye.........? You definitely are entrenched & closed minded. ;)
Can you point me in the direction of an impartial source of media, please?
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Thats a UKIP quote....their words, not mine.......Hows that make me closed minded? Please stop the petty insults by the way.

simon ess said:
:D

It's gone right over the top hasn't it?

:)
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I thought so. It made a nice wooshing noise on the way past though
 
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