Reasons to vote UKIP

[dejongj]

Well if that means you accept that they're intrinsically racist, it's difficult to conceive that their border policy won't have an element of racism underpinning it.

That would seem like a simple deduction?

To you perhaps, not to me. But then again I do not accept that they are intrinsically racist. That is a huge accusation and if I was so inclined, properly worthy of the big red button.

 

[dejongj]

I'd debate him being good or capable either - but that's always going toe be a difference of opinion

The facts and general opinion including international monitoring suggests that the UK is financially in a pretty good state. We are no where there yet and I'd like to have seen tougher measures however I couldn't imagine any of the other parties be able to steer the country through this.

 

[boyfalldown]

The facts and general opinion including international monitoring suggests that the UK is financially in a pretty good state. We are no where there yet and I'd like to have seen tougher measures however I couldn't imagine any of the other parties be able to steer the country through this.

There's a big problem with that- it's not that has been achieved by Osborne ( that was what my post was about).

Steering through this is opinion. Mines different. I think our 'recovery' has provided a great big split between those who are ok, and those that aren't. For a lot of people wages have dropped throughout the course of this parliament and the deficit is still there despite him saying it'd go this parliament.

I know you'll blame that on the previous administration, and I'd agree to an extent. Running any type of deficit during sustained growth is foolish, but the global crisis was hardly their fault

 

[dejongj]

There's a big problem with that- it's not that has been achieved by Osborne ( that was what my post was about).

Steering through this is opinion. Mines different. I think our 'recovery' has provided a great big split between those who are ok, and those that aren't. For a lot of people wages have dropped throughout the course of this parliament and the deficit is still there despite him saying it'd go this parliament.

I know you'll blame that on the previous administration, and I'd agree to an extent. Running any type of deficit during sustained growth is foolish, but the global crisis was hardly their fault

I don't blame the global crisis on them at all, I do blame them for getting us into a position that we were so exposed to it and affected by it.

Never said it was easy, nor will be for quite a few years until people's personal behaviours change. However comparatively to many other countries we've already done a lot more. And that is with thanks to the current administration.

 

[OldCarlos]

yeah but you don't use it in perjorative sense - nor are you standing for parliment.

That's true, I'd never intentionally upset anyone. (although there are too many folk jumping on the PC bandwagon, when it suits)
Re standing for parliament, now that's an idea! Bring Back Common Sense Party.

 

[viv1969]

Given the strength of the UKIP movement, I doubt I am alone.

The best sort of government is a Tory UKIP coalition government with UKIP taking the borders and foreign policy and Tories health, education, transport.

Yes, because that's how it would work.

 

[OldCarlos]

I have an odd sense of humour

Sounds like me

If it weren't for UKIP, I wouldn't know which way to go tbh & probably wouldn't bother.

Similar reasons to you re the Tories, Liberals & Labour.

In the past I've voted both Labour and Tory (Christ I actually voted Maggie in! brrrrrr) I tried to pay attention to their ideas & election promises & decided which I thought was the best, not only for myself & family, but society as a whole.

Our local LibDems usually get my vote in the locals, so I'm not a hardliner.

 

[boyfalldown]

I don't blame the global crisis on them at all, I do blame them for getting us into a position that we were so exposed to it and affected by it.

Never said it was easy, nor will be for quite a few years until people's personal behaviours change. However comparatively to many other countries we've already done a lot more. And that is with thanks to the current administration.

Even then we seemed to be less effected then many other countries. We seemed to make far less mistakes then many others did initially. In honesty I can't see any administration being less exposed. The only way to do that was greater regulation world wide, which wouldn't have been accepted and our over exposure to the financial sector has roots that go back along way.


Maybe you see differently?
In fact didn't our current chancellor praise the Celtic Tiger at the start of 2007?

 

[OldCarlos]

Well I don't know about New Zealand, but I'd definitely describe the USA and Australia as places which have a horrifically racist reputation, whether that's social inclusion, government sponsored ethnic cleansing, the way that the law treats different races, reacts to natural disasters... etc. etc.

Would anyone really argue with that? Can we really suggest that those 2 countries aren't endemically racist?

In the past?

Folk will want the UK govt to apologise for the slave trade omongst other things, next?

 

[boyfalldown]

(Christ I actually voted Maggie in! brrrrrr).

I'd be quiet about that

*runs away giggling cause I wasn't old enough to vote for her *

 

[dejongj]

Even then we seemed to be less effected then many other countries. We seemed to make far less mistakes then many others did initially. In honesty I can't see any administration being less exposed. The only way to do that was greater regulation world wide, which wouldn't have been accepted and our over exposure to the financial sector has roots that go back along way.


Maybe you see differently?
In fact didn't our current chancellor praise the Celtic Tiger at the start of 2007?

I'm definitely in the less regulation. And less state interference camp.

No idea what the Celtic tiger is.

 

[OldCarlos]

I don't blame the global crisis on them at all, I do blame them for getting us into a position that we were so exposed to it and affected by it.

Never said it was easy, nor will be for quite a few years until people's personal behaviours change. However comparatively to many other countries we've already done a lot more. And that is with thanks to the current administration.

The problem is, the cuts we've endured this past few years have been really tough on large numbers in our society, BUT those cuts were only half of it. There's much worse to come.

 

[boyfalldown]

I'm definitely in the less regulation. And less state interference camp.

No idea what the Celtic tiger is.

I do agree about less interference, but I would ring fence too so a collapse wouldn't threaten to take the economy with it


The Celtic tiger was the slang for the Irish Economic 'miracle' through the early 2000s. We know how it ended up

 

[OldCarlos]

I'd be quiet about that

*runs away giggling cause I wasn't old enough to vote for her *

Aye & I was made redundant TWICE under that administration! (still get cold sweats thinking about her )

 

[simon ess]

Genuine question - I'm not trying to make a point or anything - isn't there an argument that de-regulation of the finance sector led to overborrowing and overlending, together with the development of financial products that no-one understands, the confusion between banking services and speculative dealing and much else that I don't pretend to understand?

 

[Phil V]

To you perhaps, not to me. But then again I do not accept that they are intrinsically racist. That is a huge accusation and if I was so inclined, properly worthy of the big red button.

You do like to wriggle, I was responding to you saying...

Weren't we talking about border policy?

When I described them as intrinsically racist, now you could have refuted that first time, but you chose not to. Make your mind up, do you accept that these countries have historically and continue to behave in a manner that suggests they're not as keen on racial equality as western europe (as an example).

 

[Phil V]

In the past?

Folk will want the UK govt to apologise for the slave trade omongst other things, next?

Not in the past. Give up with the anti PC b******t, it's irrelevant.

American policemen are killing black teenagers with very little in the way of evidence or provocation on a regular basis, have you not seen the newspapers? Does it not matter to you?

 

[SFTPhotography]

Well if that means you accept that they're intrinsically racist, it's difficult to conceive that their border policy won't have an element of racism underpinning it.

That would seem like a simple deduction?

But they're not...

They've clearly spelled out what their border policy would be and IMHO and a significant number think it's a good thing.

Can you please explain how a points based immigration system and withdrawal from the EU is racist?

 

[dejongj]

The problem is, the cuts we've endured this past few years have been really tough on large numbers in our society, BUT those cuts were only half of it. There's much worse to come.

Absolutely. I wish they would have come much sooner and stronger.

 

[OldCarlos]

Not in the past. Give up with the anti PC b******t, it's irrelevant.

American policemen are killing black teenagers with very little in the way of evidence or provocation on a regular basis, have you not seen the newspapers? Does it not matter to you?

I was referring to Australia, which YOU mentioned in your post, which was in reply to `borders` & immigration.

Of course it matters, just like drug dealing, murder, rape, assault..........etc. It all matters!

Oh & no I won't drop the PC angle if I think it's relevant, just like folk won't stop using the race card when it suits.

 

[OldCarlos]

Absolutely. I wish they would have come much sooner and stronger.

Sooner, yes I agree, but stronger no. Society is fractured enough as it is.

The NHS is at breaking point. Education/schools struggling with numbers (ironic ) Housing.......

In real terms, there is now less money spent on social care & services, than there was in the 1930's

 

[dejongj]

You do like to wriggle, I was responding to you saying...

When I described them as intrinsically racist, now you could have refuted that first time, but you chose not to. Make your mind up, do you accept that these countries have historically and continue to behave in a manner that suggests they're not as keen on racial equality as western europe (as an example).

I don't see the wriggling except for you here. Yesterday you accuse all business but your own of all sorts. You issue physical threats. Then today you say Australia and the U.S. are intrinsically racist. You really are something special aren't you.

 

[dejongj]

Genuine question - I'm not trying to make a point or anything - isn't there an argument that de-regulation of the finance sector led to overborrowing and overlending, together with the development of financial products that no-one understands, the confusion between banking services and speculative dealing and much else that I don't pretend to understand?

Possibly, yet I belief in personal responsibility. Just because someone is willing to lend you, doesn't mean it is a good idea to take it. The more we protect people the less they'll learn.

 

[SFTPhotography]

American policemen are killing black teenagers with very little in the way of evidence or provocation on a regular basis, have you not seen the newspapers? Does it not matter to you?

Can you please back this up with proof rather than hysterical pontificating.

Iirc the last teen shot had an imitation gun and wouldn't comply to armed police requests. I don't see how skin colour is remotely important when someone in a public place is yielding a gun, other than to help identify them in the crowd. Which is why the skin colour came up in conversation with the control room conversation.

 

[simon ess]

belief in personal responsibility. Just because someone is willing to lend you, doesn't mean it is a good idea to take it. The more we protect people the less they'll learn.

Indeed, I agree.

But here we are.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Sooner, yes I agree, but stronger no. Society is fractured enough as it is.

The NHS is at breaking point. Education/schools struggling with numbers (ironic ) Housing.......

In real terms, there is now less money spent on social care & services, than there was in the 1930's

The NHS is the worlds fifth largest employer. I find that odd as many countries have state healthcare which have populations larger than ours yet seemingly employ far fewer people to cater for the healthcare of a greater population.

It's not how much you spend, but how you spend and deploy staff.

 

[boyfalldown]

Sooner, yes I agree, but stronger no. Society is fractured enough as it is.

I certainly agree society is fractured enough. I don't see a society where the poorest have to rely on food packages as been good for anyone. Certainly not them nor to I believe that it does the rest of it any good. I simply don't want a society with large numbers desperate for food. Or shelter. Or any of the other basic needs.

To me it's against where one of the richest countries in the world should be.

I don't get how anyone can propose tax cuts at the mo

 

[SFTPhotography]

Possibly, yet I belief in personal responsibility. Just because someone is willing to lend you, doesn't mean it is a good idea to take it. The more we protect people the less they'll learn.

If inly Greece heeded this very sensible and thought out logic.

Great post.

 

[dejongj]

Sooner, yes I agree, but stronger no. Society is fractured enough as it is.

The NHS is at breaking point. Education/schools struggling with numbers (ironic ) Housing.......

In real terms, there is now less money spent on social care & services, than there was in the 1930's

The breaking point is very political imo. Lack of funding is in my opinion not the problem at all. It is still one of the largest about in the world. Just not being handled smartly.

Housing, well the the lowest approval rates for mortgages in over 20 months was just announced. That is the other side of regulation.

 

[boyfalldown]

The NHS is the worlds fifth largest employer. I find that odd as many countries have state healthcare which have populations larger than ours yet seemingly employ far fewer people to cater for the healthcare of a greater population.

It's not how much you spend, but how you spend and deploy staff.

Could you give some examples? ( of countries)

 

[dejongj]

I certainly agree society is fractured enough. I don't see a society where the poorest have to rely on food packages as been good for anyone. Certainly not them nor to I believe that it does the rest of it any good. I simply don't want a society with large numbers desperate for food. Or shelter. Or any of the other basic needs.

To me it's against where one of the richest countries in the world should be.

I don't get how anyone can propose tax cuts at the mo

Because tax cuts could actually bring in more money I'd rather have multinationals choosing to pay a small percentage of a lot than a large percentage of nada zilch nothing.

And on a personal level, I'd be less inclined to use every avoidance measure possible.

 

[OldCarlos]

I don't get how anyone can propose tax cuts at the mo

Electioneering?

tbh, I'd gladly pay a bit more tax if it helped.

There is very little difference between all the main parties these days & the differences are largely irrelevant to the majority of us.

 

[boyfalldown]

Because tax cuts could actually bring in more money I'd rather have multinationals choosing to pay a small percentage of a lot than a large percentage of nada zilch nothing.

And on a personal level, I'd be less inclined to use every avoidance measure possible.

Or you could ensure that hmrc followed up multinationals rather then chasing ordinary people for every penny.

Most people (on paye) do have very limited avoidance options now

 

[dejongj]

Or you could ensure that hmrc followed up multinationals rather then chasing ordinary people for every penny.

Most people (on paye) do have very limited avoidance options now

Considering those multinationals don't do anything wrong under international law. What do you suggest they do?

In my opinion they should approach it as a business deal and make a bid for that business to have those corporations domicile in the UK.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Could you give some examples? ( of countries)

France, Germany all have larger populations and their public sector healthcare isbt in the worlds top ten never mind top 5

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9155130/NHS-is-fifth-biggest-employer-in-world.html

Thank god for papers like the telegraph who report just how lavish out government spends our money
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9155130/NHS-is-fifth-biggest-employer-in-world.html

Good to create jobs in the public sector, they'll vote for you.

 

[boyfalldown]

Considering those multinationals don't do anything wrong under international law. What do you suggest they do?

In my opinion they should approach it as a business deal and make a bid for that business to have those corporations domicile in the UK.

It's not worked for countries like Ireland though, just lowering corporation tax.

I'd suggest refining the ukip idea, in that if profit is made in the UK it's taxed here. Furthermore hmrc looked closely at things like inter company loans at non competitive rates and if a transaction was judged to be purely to avoid tax then it was counted as profit. I don't get how companies can report one profit to share holders and another to the taxman

 

[boyfalldown]

France, Germany all have larger populations and their public sector healthcare isbt in the worlds top ten never mind top 5

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9155130/NHS-is-fifth-biggest-employer-in-world.html

Thank god for papers like the telegraph who report just how lavish out government spends our money
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9155130/NHS-is-fifth-biggest-employer-in-world.html

Good to create jobs in the public sector, they'll vote for you.

France has a smaller population (just) then the UK. German and French healthcare spending is a little higher (per head and gdp) then the UK. Although that's a fraction only so broadly the same

 

[Phil V]

But they're not...

They've clearly spelled out what their border policy would be and IMHO and a significant number think it's a good thing.

Can you please explain how a points based immigration system and withdrawal from the EU is racist?

I never said a points based system was racist, are you having problems reading?

 

[Phil V]

Can you please back this up with proof rather than hysterical pontificating.

Iirc the last teen shot had an imitation gun and wouldn't comply to armed police requests. I don't see how skin colour is remotely important when someone in a public place is yielding a gun, other than to help identify them in the crowd. Which is why the skin colour came up in conversation with the control room conversation.

Are you telling me you have seen no news reports of white American policemen killing black youths who were committing no crimes? I really do find that difficult to believe.

 

[Phil V]

I don't see the wriggling except for you here. Yesterday you accuse all business but your own of all sorts. You issue physical threats. Then today you say Australia and the U.S. are intrinsically racist. You really are something special aren't you.

That's so twisted it's comical