Who is a professional photographer

[Marcus Geezer]

I wasn't implying that it does in the slightest! As Steve spotted, my meaning was that an amateur loves what he/she does and in no way makes him/her any less of a professional should she/he do it for reward rather than purely for love. As you say, people who love what they do are generally damn good at it (and are very lucky!)

Ermmm. No.

 

[Steve Smith]

Errmmm, yes.

The opposite of professional is unprofessional, not amateur.


Steve.

 

[Marcus Geezer]

Why is this so black and white for everyone? It's been discussed at length as to what is unprofessional, professional etc, with people offering opinions or otherwise. Before photography was my main source of income I was considered a 'professional' within my trade, taking a lot of pride in what I did. I encountered many people who acted unprofessional however were very good at what they produced, equally I met a lot who were very professional in how they presented themselves but fundamentally produced a load of rubbish because they were idiots.

I think what is truly being tested or pondered here is not any test of anyone's real world professionalism or perception thereof, however how clever they think they are within the limits of this forum.

 

[meonshore]

Why is this so black and white for everyone? It's been discussed at length as to what is unprofessional, professional etc, with people offering opinions or otherwise. Before photography was my main source of income I was considered a 'professional' within my trade, taking a lot of pride in what I did. I encountered many people who acted unprofessional however were very good at what they produced, equally I met a lot who were very professional in how they presented themselves but fundamentally produced a load of rubbish because they were idiots.

I think what is truly being tested or pondered here is not any test of anyone's real world professionalism or perception thereof, however how clever they think they are within the limits of this forum.

^This.

I tend to stay out of these threads because much like Nikon vs Canon they are entirely subjective.

Photography is not a regulated industry in the UK, and the legislation in Germany for example is easily circumvented and even then unlikely to make this particular discussion any less subjective.

- Having a photographic, arts, or imaging based degree does not automatically make you a "Professional Photographer"
- Being a member of a photographic association or trade body does not automatically make you a "Professional Photographer"
- Holding a distinction from one of the above does not automatically make you a "Professional Photographer"
- Taking any exam, diploma, course, or even period of practice does not automatically make you a "Professional Photographer"
- Teaching photography for a living doesn't automatically make you a "Professional Photographer"

This is nothing like being a lawyer, doctor, dentist, vet, chartered accountant or any of the other jobs that require a certain level of study and qualification, or a licence, before you can call yourself the title, stick letters after your name, and open a practice. It is both a hobby/pastime and a job which is why you use professional to distinguish between those who do it as a "job" and those who do it for purely pleasure - whatever the level of quality, service, dedication and percentage of the hours of the day spent. ANYONE can call themselves a professional photographer, and no-one can legally force them to stop doing so.

There is nothing wrong with having the discussion, but the only real fact here is that everyones opinion about what a "Professional Photographer" is, could be valid - and as long as everyone understands that then there isn't a problem. There isn't a black or a white - just lots and lots of shades of grey.

 

[big soft moose]

If that's true does it therefore follow that any professional who's willing to help people out on forums deserves derision because they're not good enough to be too busy to be here?

Do they deserve even less respect if they are not just helpful members but also give up their time to moderate?

What about teachers?

What about policemen who choose to spend time here, or medical professionals?

Or part timers? where do we draw the line? Should they all be too busy to help others? Are the only worthy members amateurs who have menial full time jobs?

did you get hit with the grumpy stick over xmas Phil ? , i'm fairly sure bethy didn't mean it like that, I assumed she was answering the point of why we don't have more proffesionals posting in business, and to be fair in that context she's got a point... while we do have some very good pros who find the time to post/help/moderate, at least two of them have said to me by pm that the reason they don't post more is that they have to limit the ammount of time they spend on line as its non productive time for which they arent being paid

 

[The Greek]

Well the other day I popped into Timpsons to get a couple of keys cut. The young lad explained that there will be a bit of a wait due to staff shortage, he was on his own. He finished heeling some boots, pulled down a backdrop and whipped out his camera taking passport picture for the couple in front of me then jump back behind the counter cutting 3 keys for the price of two for me.

Now this guy's a Professional!

 

[Steve Smith]

at least two of them have said to me by pm that the reason they don't post more is that they have to limit the ammount of time they spend on line as its non productive time for which they arent being paid

That would be true of anyone who was looking at forums when they should be at work.


Steve.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

at least two of them have said to me by pm that the reason they don't post more is that they have to limit the ammount of time they spend on line as its non productive time for which they arent being paid

..... and yet two people found the time to read your post and PM you. How bizarre !

 

[big soft moose]

..... and yet two people found the time to read your post and PM you. How bizarre !

nope - its two people i'm friends with who mentioned iyt in passin in PM conversations - what they were basically saying is that they'd hapily spend a small ammount of time on line talking to freinds or for that matter making friends with fellow pros but don't feel they have the time or inclination to spend more time on TP than they do