Two woman PC's shot in Manchester

Would never have a go at the police, as an A&E paramedic they have saved me getting a kicking on a good few occassions over the last 20 years.
 
Oddly Ally, I was saved once from a kicking by an Ambulance crew.
I don't think, in this case, tazer, self defence training or firearms would have helped them. Depending on the order things went, there's not a great deal of defence against a hand grenade.
But what this does bring into sharp focus, is that, while the public can and do run away from incidents, we employ the Police to run towards, armed with no much in the way of protection, a cheap stab resistant vest, 20 inches of asp and a can of curry flavored source.
Not only do they do that for the rest of us, if they do manage to do something to defend themselves successfully, there are those who scream for their hanging (evidence not necessary, of course).
Perhaps now some will re think their unfounded biases and realise that 99% of police officers do the job they are employed for without being bent, corrupt or evil. Which is probably a far better percentage than most public services.
 
Bernie174 said:
Oddly Ally, I was saved once from a kicking by an Ambulance crew.
I don't think, in this case, tazer, self defence training or firearms would have helped them. Depending on the order things went, there's not a great deal of defence against a hand grenade.
But what this does bring into sharp focus, is that, while the public can and do run away from incidents, we employ the Police to run towards, armed with no much in the way of protection, a cheap stab resistant vest, 20 inches of asp and a can of curry flavored source.
Not only do they do that for the rest of us, if they do manage to do something to defend themselves successfully, there are those who scream for their hanging (evidence not necessary, of course).
Perhaps now some will re think their unfounded biases and realise that 99% of police officers do the job they are employed for without being bent, corrupt or evil. Which is probably a far better percentage than most public services.
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:clap:
 
Absolutely shocked by it.

According to BBC handed himself in at a police station as well.

All I can hope is that they have several flights of stairs for him to trip down. :bat:
 
Bernie174 said:
Oddly Ally, I was saved once from a kicking by an Ambulance crew.
I don't think, in this case, tazer, self defence training or firearms would have helped them. Depending on the order things went, there's not a great deal of defence against a hand grenade.
But what this does bring into sharp focus, is that, while the public can and do run away from incidents, we employ the Police to run towards, armed with no much in the way of protection, a cheap stab resistant vest, 20 inches of asp and a can of curry flavored source.
Not only do they do that for the rest of us, if they do manage to do something to defend themselves successfully, there are those who scream for their hanging (evidence not necessary, of course).
Perhaps now some will re think their unfounded biases and realise that 99% of police officers do the job they are employed for without being bent, corrupt or evil. Which is probably a far better percentage than most public services.
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Agreed :thumbs:
 
Keebsuk said:
My deepest condolences to family and friends of these officers.

This sort of offence, where as clear cut, should be dealt with in only one way. BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY.

Andy
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Oh but you'd all done so well. May as well just liken something the nazis and call this one a wrap now! :bonk:
 
Garry

From my experience, which was a vote in the 90's it was 60% against being armed. However, I also know a lot of of police officers, many of who voted in that poll, who've since changed their minds.
I'd suggest you read Insp Gadgets blog to see how much feeling there is in favour nowadays.
So having dealt with my opinion being out of step, next lets look at facts.
My last station, 70% of officers were armed. Mostly with handguns, glock's to be exact. So 70% of officers at that station were the type to make that decision, just as I was quite willing to make the decision to clout someone with an asp, and if necessary clout them in a way that may well have killed them.
So in short my point is I did the job and know the mindset intimately of those that do it. You're wrong.
Going back to the type of pistol, yes, badly maintained, automatics can be unreliable. Well maintained they are not. Certainly every European Police Force that use them, ie most, don't have an issue. Why would the UK Police be any different? The issue of using revolvers therefore doesn't arise.
Cost of purchase? Bit late to worry about that.
The only other cost is training. Easily solved, stop wasting money on diversity training, and use it for self defence in all it's forms. After all, you can't be nice to Gypsies if your laying dead.
My only concern is the repercussions of using a gun, which is why I refused to carry one. The likes of Duggan, I assume you've now seen the news about him, and seen the error of your previous conjecture about him, shows that even when properly used, people will insist in believing the Guardian's inaccurate tripe rather than waiting until the evidence is made public.
Until a better system than the incompetent "I"PCC is put in place, I wouldn't carry a firearm. Thats not to say that I support "Judge Dread" Policing, it simply means that I do not support trial by media and trial by rumour, I do support quick and proper investigations conducted by those with experience and knowledge.
 
Can someone give me any reason why this bloke should not be locked up in a squalid cell with no tv or other luxuries, no medical treatment and just get fed bread and water?
 
cambsno said:
Can someone give me any reason why this bloke should not be locked up in a squalid cell with no tv or other luxuries, no medical treatment and just get fed bread and water?
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Brussels
 
cambsno said:
Can someone give me any reason why this bloke should not be locked up in a squalid cell with no tv or other luxuries, no medical treatment and just get fed bread and water?
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European convention of human rights which unfortunately covers him.
 
big soft moose said:
yep - chances are that officers would be issued with glock semi-automatics (which is what most currently armed police carry) - which carry 11 in the magazine and potentially one in the chamber. They arent inherently unreliable - the only proviso being that you cant fire one in your pocket because the slide will snag (not relevant to armed police anyway)

the idea of a revolver always having to be on an empty cylinder is silly - if the hammers down its safe anyway regardless of whether its on a round or not

and one well placed round will bring even an adult male down

but this isnt the place for an indepth discussion of firearms and their use
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You're spot on, Moose, two people who have lost their lives aren't even cold yet ffs.
 
cambsno said:
Can someone give me any reason why this bloke should not be locked up in a squalid cell with no tv or other luxuries, no medical treatment and just get fed bread and water?
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personally i'd like to lock him in a cell and then chuck a hand grenade in to keep him company for the last 3 seconds of his sentence

either that or drop him by by parachute into the middle of helmand while dressed as an intelligence officer and carrying a breif case chained to him with lots of documents marked top secret

however we arent allowed to do such things - instead of which we'll have to send him to a nice cosy prison where he'll be lionised for killing cops instead of condemned for it
 
The sad thing is that this **** probably isn't going to receive any extra punishment for killing 4 people over that he would have for the two murders he he had already carried out....
 
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He should be afforded the same human rights as his victims got .... none.
 
Bernie, Garry, let's just try and keep one thread free from bickering and nit-picking. This thread was to comment on the awful events of today and not the pros and cons of whether automatic pistols are well maintained.
 
As Colin has said this maybe isn't the place for it BUT if you want to discuss whether or not the police should be armed then I will happily transfer all the relevant posts to a new thread and you can carry on in there. In fact, I will do just that now......back in a moment.
 
cowasaki said:
As Colin has said this maybe isn't the place for it BUT if you want to discuss whether or not the police should be armed then I will happily transfer all the relevant posts to a new thread and you can carry on in there. In fact, I will do just that now......back in a moment.
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Thank you, Darren.
 
No more discussion about whether police should be armed in THIS thread, I have created a new thread for that discussion....

Should the police be armed >>>>> HERE

Posts specifically about that discussion inside THIS thread will now be removed.
 
After watching the news the police have 2 questions to answer. Why was he on bail for murder (if I was on bail for murder I would do a runner) and it seems that plenty of people knew where he was.
 
cambsno said:
After watching the news the police have 2 questions to answer. Why was he on bail for murder (if I was on bail for murder I would do a runner) and it seems that plenty of people knew where he was.
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The first question is for the courts NOT the police.

The second question is why those "plenty of people" didn't tell the police.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There's now a Facebook page honouring the killer. This is the world we live in....:shake:
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You will always get that though, there always some people that will always go against the regime just for the hell of it.
 
A 35 and 26 year old girl get killed doing their job and people see it as something to support? Sad ****ers!
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I can't find any way to report a page when on the iphone, so hopefully others will have done it.
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Hopefully the creator and anyone supporting it will have their details passed to the police so they can prosecute them like that twitter idiot the other day.

Oh and as my initial post was moved to the armed police thread - thoughts go out to the families..
 
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Flash In The Pan said:
There's now a Facebook page honouring the killer. This is the world we live in....:shake:
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Link please, and I will happily report it straight to Zutterberg!
 
Lynton said:
Link please, and I will happily report it straight to Zutterberg!
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I can't link on phone, do a FB search for the ****'s name and you'll see it (and a second one that has just sprung up).

With a bit of luck the creators of both pages will be getting an early morning door knock in the very near future....
 
Mr Z has a few emails to check in the morning!

What ******s to even start such pages
 
that remark doesnt make sense because the threads been cleaned up - he was saying we might as well invoke godwin and have done with it - but hacker and cowasaki restored some sembelance of order
 
neil_g said:
Hopefully the creator and anyone supporting it will have their details passed to the police so they can prosecute them like that twitter idiot the other day.

Oh and as my initial post was moved to the armed police thread - thoughts go out to the families..
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just to balance it.. there's been a group created called 'Name whoever created "Dale Cregan Hero"'... karma will probably pay them a visit at some point :thumbs:
 
leftcurl said:
just to balance it.. there's been a group created called 'Name whoever created "Dale Cregan Hero"'... karma will probably pay them a visit at some point :thumbs:
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They've all been removed now. There are however several anti cregan pages popping up.
 
cambsno said:
Why was he on bail for murder
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According to reporting, insufficient evidence to charge so he had to be released. This is the same as for anyone else that is arrested but not charged. There is a limit on the amount of time someone can be held by the police without being charged with an offence (usually 24h, but can be extended to a certain extent).

Indefinite detention without ever being before a court is not permitted in our law, for obvious reasons.

Once charged, a court can remand someone in custody until their trial, but they have to be charged and the prosecutor has to convince the court that imprisonment on remand is required.
 
Beggars belief that a man can walk into a pub and shoot someone and there be insufficient evidence to charge him ,,, does this say more about the local community than the local police?
 
gramps said:
Beggars belief that a man can walk into a pub and shoot someone and there be insufficient evidence to charge him ,,, does this say more about the local community than the local police?
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maybe more on the cps and courts.. i mean the thought might be would you "grass" up a guy that shot someone in case they got off/got out early?
 
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