Two woman PC's shot in Manchester

You may be right but just as policing is "by consent", so is this sort of "urban hero" violence - if enough people take a stand it would be much more difficult IMO.
 
gramps said:
Beggars belief that a man can walk into a pub and shoot someone and there be insufficient evidence to charge him ,,, does this say more about the local community than the local police?
Click to expand...

Lots of locals knew he was there, it's like the old joke "I'm a Jehovah's Bystander"

"Don't you mean Jehovah's Witness?"

"You'll not find any witnesses round here, mate...."
 
There was a community (not all involved) gang culture war going on, for those that do not know what a local community gang war is, it is a bit like the mafia and the police. Everyone knows it is going on but honest, hard working folk are too scared to say anything for fear of reprisals. Inner city neighbourhoods are some times 'ruled' by this type of gang. We had one in our town but fortunately the families of the gangs all started to die or get old.
 
tiler65 said:
There was a community (not all involved) gang culture war going on, for those that do not know what a local community gang war is, it is a bit like the mafia and the police. Everyone knows it is going on but honest, hard working folk are too scared to say anything for fear of reprisals. Inner city neighbourhoods are some times 'ruled' by this type of gang. We had one in our town but fortunately the families of the gangs all started to die or get old.
Click to expand...
It's understandable when members of the public decide to play 3 monkeys, but it doesn't help society and it just pushes the problems on to someone else. If those two police officers were murdered partly because of lack of support from witnesses, then surely those witnesses should feel some guilt.

The simple fact of the matter is that the police are becoming less and less efficient, largely due to poor funding. For the police to have any chance of managing with less resources, they need the active help of the public. And they should be entitled to expect that help, not just hope for it.

I experienced yet another example of the attitude that so many police officers now have, just yesterday. A PC came to my studio door, asking whether there was any chance that he could take a look at my CCTV, he had been watching what he thought was a drug deal but couldn't see whether it had actually taken place or whether a known drug dealer was just talking to the occupants of another car that had pulled up alongside..

He was both surprised and grateful when I said that of course he could look, and he shouldn't have been. IMO he is entitled to expect cooperation.

I think this is the 4th time in less than a year that the same thing has happened, and each time the police officer (different each time) has been surprised and grateful.
 
I can understand people being afraid to pass information to the police if they live in an area where that would bring repercussions. However, anonymous reporting is hassle free.

Interesting that the killer gave himself up. Suddenly did not feel so brave when he thought about getting cornered by armed police.
 
There was a woman on the news saying that she knew he was there and that she had told her son not to play round there... well surely that is evidence for her breaking the law and she should be arrested and jailed!!!
 
arclight said:
I can understand people being afraid to pass information to the police if they live in an area where that would bring repercussions. However, anonymous reporting is hassle free.

Interesting that the killer gave himself up. Suddenly did not feel so brave when he thought about getting cornered by armed police.
Click to expand...

Passing information on anonymously can help the police, but it doesn't get people convicted. Giving evidence before a Court does, but then it's no longer anonymous and no longer safe.

Who knows why he gave himself up to police? Someone evil and twisted enough to carry out premeditated murder on innocent strangers isn't normal.
 
cambsno said:
There was a woman on the news saying that she knew he was there and that she had told her son not to play round there... well surely that is evidence for her breaking the law and she should be arrested and jailed!!!
Click to expand...

Nonsense, she has the right to remain silent.

Try living in fear of your life and your families...then see what you do.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Passing information on anonymously can help the police, but it doesn't get people convicted. Giving evidence before a Court does, but then it's no longer anonymous and no longer safe.

Who knows why he gave himself up to police? Someone evil and twisted enough to carry out premeditated murder on innocent strangers isn't normal.
Click to expand...

Indeed, Garry, but an anonymous call giving the location of a wanted person is immensely usefull.
 
arclight said:
Indeed, Garry, but an anonymous call giving the location of a wanted person is immensely usefull.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I thought that this was about information about other murders that he was suspected of having carried out, not about his whereabouts.
 
Thank Mod for that

Back on topic I see they've now arrested a second man on charges of consipracy to commit murder. You really have to wonder what these two thought they were going to achieve - I mean the logic in killing a rival is relatively easy to understand (though not to condone) - blowing up his father 3 months later is less easy to explain although he did publically 'disrespect' cregan so i guess thats why - but why they should then decide to ambush and murder some random police officers is impossible to understand.
 
big soft moose said:
Thank Mod for that

Back on topic I see they've now arrested a second man on charges of consipracy to commit murder. You really have to wonder what these two thought they were going to achieve - I mean the logic in killing a rival is relatively easy to understand (though not to condone) - blowing up his father 3 months later is less easy to explain although he did publically 'disrespect' cregan so i guess thats why - but why they should then decide to ambush and murder some random police officers is impossible to understand.
Click to expand...

I think thats the hardest part for anyone to get to grips with. It makes no sence.
 
gramps said:
Great news.
Click to expand...

The terrible thing is I can easily understand it - he's committed two murders and it really is only a matter of time until he's caught, and probably expects to spend a very good percentage of the rest of his life in prison.

Now, he's still going to get a life term and probably do 25+ years, but.......

He's going to feared and worshipped in equal amounts for those 25 years. Can you imagine the reception he'll get inside for what he's done? He's going to have people eating out of his hand.

Horrible that two people could have potentially been killed just so this lowlife doesn't have to do his own washing in prison.
 
The terrible thing is I can easily understand why he's done it - he's committed two murders and it really is only a matter of time until he's caught, and probably expects to spend a very good percentage of the rest of his life in prison.

Now, he's still going to get a life term and probably do 25+ years, but.......

He's going to feared and worshipped in equal amounts for those 25 years. Can you imagine the reception he'll get inside for what he's done? He's going to have people eating out of his hand.

Horrible that two people could have potentially been killed just so this lowlife doesn't have to do his own washing in prison.[/QUOTE]
 
big soft moose said:
blowing up his father 3 months later is less easy to explain although he did publically 'disrespect' cregan so i guess thats why
Click to expand...

I think the fact that the father was, according to reports, a rival gangster might have some bearing on what happened. It's not like Cregan (allegedly) shot some innocent in the pub and then killed his law-abiding father because he "disrespected" him, it's been a falling out amongst criminals, with a pre-emptive attack on the father before he could seek revenge.....
 
johnny8977 said:
He's going to feared and worshipped in equal amounts for those 25 years. Can you imagine the reception he'll get inside for what he's done? He's going to have people eating out of his hand.
Click to expand...

right up to the point where someone paid by a family member of the rivals he killed shanks him

also ambushing and gunning down two unarmed women isnt exactly going to get him a hard reputation inside - its not quite shooting it out with a SO19 team.
 
Last edited:
He will probably get 40+ years without parole. He is a quadruple murderer (at least). Plus an increased level for the manner and the fact that two were police. I doubt he will ever actually walk out.
 
but how strong is the case ? - I'm not suggesting for a moment that he's innocent, but apart from his admission (which he could easily retract before trial) what evidence is there that he's the perpetrator - given that witness's against these sort of people have a funny habit of recanting - or disapearing.

It could be that he's given himself up because he knows/thinks he's ging to get away with it - and a few months on remand is considerably safer than risking being caught on the street by some armedm police hunting a cop killer.
 
cowasaki said:
He will probably get 40+ years without parole. He is a quadruple murderer (at least). Plus an increased level for the manner and the fact that two were police. I doubt he will ever actually walk out.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Harry Roberts is still inside,police killers don't normally get out on licence.
 
big soft moose said:
but how strong is the case ? - I'm not suggesting for a moment that he's innocent, but apart from his admission (which he could easily retract before trial) what evidence is there that he's the perpetrator - given that witness's against these sort of people have a funny habit of recanting - or disapearing.

It could be that he's given himself up because he knows/thinks he's ging to get away with it - and a few months on remand is considerably safer than risking being caught on the street by some armedm police hunting a cop killer.
Click to expand...

beyond reasonable doubt..... forensics on his clothing for gunpowder etc .....
 
tiler65 said:
beyond reasonable doubt..... forensics on his clothing for gunpowder etc .....
Click to expand...

I'd imagine there'll be bits of his car near the scene too, judging by the state of it in the pic outside the police station....
 
Just hang the b@stard and have done with it. The amount of money that will be totally wasted by keeping pond life like this alive could & should be used on old folk, education, schools etc. etc. :bang::bang::bang:
 
johnny8977 said:
The terrible thing is I can easily understand why he's done it - he's committed two murders and it really is only a matter of time until he's caught, and probably expects to spend a very good percentage of the rest of his life in prison.

Now, he's still going to get a life term and probably do 25+ years, but.......

He's going to feared and worshipped in equal amounts for those 25 years. Can you imagine the reception he'll get inside for what he's done? He's going to have people eating out of his hand.

Horrible that two people could have potentially been killed just so this lowlife doesn't have to do his own washing in prison.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

It did cross my mind that his warped mind may have led him to decide that if he is going down he may as well go down for something really big.
 

It did cross my mind that his warped mind may have led him to decide that if he is going down he may as well go down for something really big.[/QUOTE]

I had that thought too. He will go down in gangland legend for it unfortunately and will no doubt be made into a Keyser Söze style figure in the underworld.

Inside he will get respect from some, but killing women does not go down well, so it may not be an easy ride for him. Add to that rivals inside and it could be a short stay for him
 
Cregan tonight charged with 4 murders.
 
... and the numpty know started that facebook page was locked up too:

"A 22-year-old man has been bailed by Merseyside Police pending further enquiries, after an offensive Facebook page went online within hours of the deaths of the PCs."
 
cowasaki said:
... and the numpty know started that facebook page was locked up too:

"A 22-year-old man has been bailed by Merseyside Police pending further enquiries, after an offensive Facebook page went online within hours of the deaths of the PCs."
Click to expand...

Do keep up :lol:

Flash In The Pan said:
The page's creator has now been arrested :thumbs:
Click to expand...
 
my beautiful daughter has just been attested as a special and I thought this case would have caused me stress and worry - but it hasn't. I still think she's in more danger of being killed by some idiot using a mobile whist driving than anything to do with her police work. We are all, however, very shocked by what happened in Manchester :(
 
I'm sure there's a dark little flame filled hole in hell waiting for this waste of oxygen.
 
Tiler

He will probably only make one more visit assuming he's pleaded to all 4 murders. There's only one sentence available to the Judge, so the only question is how long before he is eligible for parole. Unfortunately the EU decided it's not lawful to imprison someone indefinably without a date they may be able to apply for release on license. However, I'd be surprised if he ever walked out of prison lawfully.
 
viv1969 said:
I'm sure there's a dark little flame filled hole in hell waiting for this waste of oxygen.
Click to expand...

open cell door, throw in live grenade, close and lock door ... problem solved in 5 seconds
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top