The virus. PPE. Part 1

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sphexx said:
Human connection bolsters the immune system.
”Studies have revealed that human connection — something as simple as getting an offer of help from a stranger or looking at a picture of someone you love — can ease pain and reduce physical symptoms of stress. People who feel supported by their social networks are more likely to live longer.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/scie...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1

I hate to say this :) but maybe we should listen to the Mods and be nice to each other here :(.
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The article goes to a paywall for me, but I do recall previously (and recently) reading something about how viruses, or perhaps some of them, live or reside dormant in your nervous system? Therefore, getting stressed can be nothing short of exactly what viruses want as it allows them to reactivate or something?

Forgive me I know very little about the detail behind all of this, but something does ring a bell perhaps from some document I came across. I suppose there may be some truth in it hence why when some people get stressed cold sores (ala herpes virus) suddenly appear?

I remember watching that Bill Gates interview and I do think he has a point. We all spend insane amounts of money on defence against nuclear and conventional war, yet it's the unseen which will probably end up being the dominant threat against the human race. Apparently, it would only take a very small percentage of that defence budget to effectively prepare us against things like COVID-19.
 
arclight said:
No matter what business you are in, if historical data is inaccurate it will prejudice any attempt to make accurate forecasts. All the staff involved are probably under tremendous strain and are doing their best.
When I hear daily reports of medical staff not having adequate PPE I can only think that we have absolutely no right asking them to take such a risk.
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Personally, I am still in utter disbelieve that we, as one of the world's biggest economies, cannot provide the NHS staff with proper PPE, never mind everyone else who is helping. It's just goes to show that sometimes all these economic figures mean FA when it really matters.
 
gman said:
The article goes to a paywall for me, but I do recall previously (and recently) reading something about how viruses, or perhaps some of them, live or reside dormant in your nervous system? Therefore, getting stressed can be nothing short of exactly what viruses want as it allows them to reactivate or something?

Forgive me I know very little about the detail behind all of this, but something does ring a bell perhaps from some document I came across. I suppose there may be some truth in it hence why when some people get stressed cold sores (ala herpes virus) suddenly appear?

I remember watching that Bill Gates interview and I do think he has a point. We all spend insane amounts of money on defence against nuclear and conventional war, yet it's the unseen which will probably end up being the dominant threat against the human race. Apparently, it would only take a very small percentage of that defence budget to effectively prepare us against things like COVID-19.
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We certainly all carry thousands if not millions of different kinds of different microorganisms including viruses and it is certainly not limited to the nervous system. In fact, lungs and digestive system would be where they would be most prevalent, and in many cases necessary (all that good gut bacteria). As soon as the immune function starts to go many of them can go into the virulent active form. TB is one great example. Some of us probably carry it in a dormant form but may never get disease while we are fit.
Stress and depression is a very good and reliable way to knock out your immune function very considerably. People have to seriously stop s***ting themselves over this or they will likely get hit far worse. Do everything and anything positive.


On your second point I sure agree the military expenditure is really against the will and needs of the humanity. However, this also includes creation of bioweapons or funding of Gate's own bio labs. Some of you may likely be familiar of his famous TED talk that involves CO2 and number of people on this planet. He is certainly not our friend.
 
The problem of food supplies (US-centric) http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...nwide-as-food-distribution-systems-break-down

I hope this lockdown is over soon at least on farm and supplies level and that this country can grow as much food as we may need.

There seems to be already issues with wheat and rice growing nations stopping or limiting the supplies. Wait till late this year if this goes on like this. Let's hope the ones in charge are not this stupid.
 
gman said:
Personally, I am still in utter disbelieve that we, as one of the world's biggest economies, cannot provide the NHS staff with proper PPE, never mind everyone else who is helping. It's just goes to show that sometimes all these economic figures mean FA when it really matters.
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You are 200% correct. It is an outrage.
I cannot help but wonder whether it is down to incompetence in the chain of command or is there some other reason. I have not the slightest doubt that this country has the people and the where with all to marshal our resources then rapidly move the kit to where it is needed.
I listen to the Downing St. broadcasts every afternoon and whilst they were initially worthwhile they have now partly degenerated into waffle. When journalist asks about the lack of PPE or the shortfall in testing the gov. rep invariably sidesteps and trots out a wooly answer built around "We hope to do X, or aim to do Y, or we'll ramp the testing etc. I even detected the dreaded "lessons will be learned" twaddle.
No one seems to take any of wafflers to task when they indulge in empty talk.
 
sphexx said:
Nah, he’ll just say he never said it, as usual. The Washington Post has just put up this timeline (free to read) of Trumps gyrations, more turns than Gyrinus substriatus;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1
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I read through the link and the thought crossed my mind..it would be really, really funny if it wasn't so serious but having said that it was funny and we need a laugh these days.

Unfortunately, Brazil's Bolsanaro is no different. Brazil covers 47.3% of South America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...bc90d6-6e99-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html

But the irony of it. The criminal gangs of the Favelas are enforcing lockdown but not through any altruistic motivation for the residents.

https://www.ft.com/content/aaef1591-2fc5-4e6f-ab84-0e83b5a146ca
 
sphexx said:
NHS staff 'gagged' over coronavirus shortages:

Doctors and nurses are being warned by hospitals and other NHS bodies not to raise their concerns publicly, according to a dossier of evidence collated by the Doctors’ Association UK (DAUK).

https://www.theguardian.com/society...er-coronavirus-protective-equipment-shortages
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I seem to spend a lot of my life in despair at one thing or other and here's another example of why. I just caught a snippet of it on the news (radio) last night.
 
gman said:
The article goes to a paywall for me, but I do recall previously (and recently) reading something about how viruses, or perhaps some of them, live or reside dormant in your nervous system? Therefore, getting stressed can be nothing short of exactly what viruses want as it allows them to reactivate or something?

Forgive me I know very little about the detail behind all of this, but something does ring a bell perhaps from some document I came across. I suppose there may be some truth in it hence why when some people get stressed cold sores (ala herpes virus) suddenly appear?
Click to expand...

It's a favourite trick of herpesviruses. Chickenpox is from the same family - you are stuck with it for life, and it can reactivate as shingles.
 
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arclight said:
You are 200% correct.
No one seems to take any of wafflers to task when they indulge in empty talk.
Click to expand...
Kay Burley had a good try on SkyNews this am but didn’t get any straight answers and said so.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
A view from the Christian perspective: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a...il&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-48ea399032-404034765
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinio...il&utm_term=0_12387f0e3e-48ea399032-404034765
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A few days ago I posted regarding how religious organisations, including the Head of your catholic church, were recklessly and irresponsibly disregarding isolation advice and you know how you responded and no doubt how I came back to you on that response at which Simon Ess posted a plea stating that the forum had managed to keep politics out of it and please could we keep religion out of it. I said it then and I'll say it again. It was a very reasonable and courteous request and quite a few other members showed their support for that position with a 'like'. At that point I responded acceding to that request by asking you not to take it any further and wrote that in bold lettering. You spend enough time on here to have seen that post and I come on this morning to see you promoting your faith and church. I've noticed over time that in some of your posts you state that all we can do (in a given situation) is to pray. I resisted the temptation to challenge you on those occasions.

The report button is there but as I've posted this in the forum hopefully, a member of staff will contact you because it comes across to me as deliberate provocation, in general too, not just to me.
 
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Box Brownie said:
Well that covers my world in the 1970's in NHS pathology......haemotology & blood transfusion, microbiology (including the TB test suite) and histopathology laboratories......and not forgetting my stint in the VD reference laboratory.

Very few of the "benches" I worked at included gloves to go with the white coat(PPE)! In regard to the aforementioned reference lab l learned that one of the older time served technicians had a habit of eating his lunch at the 'separating bench'...he caught Hepatitis
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Although we had plenty of gloves, a senior academic who shall remain nameless was sceptical about their benefits, and the risks of what he regarded as the relatively small quantities of radiolabelled nucleotides we were using. He could occasionally be found at the lab sink with a brush, monitoring his hands with a Geiger counter as he vigorously scrubbed off the 32P he'd managed to get on them.

I don't go back to the mahogany and brass era, except for our school chemistry lab, where Michael Faraday would have been right at home. The building later became derelict, and it was very strange to see it turn up on one of those urban exploration sites, where someone had got in and taken photos of the decaying lab furniture.
 
sphexx said:
Kay Burley had a good try on SkyNews this am but didn’t get any straight answers and said so.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what anyone can expect that might be different. Politicians and their staff are "thinkers" not "doers". Most have never done a real job in their lives and are baffled by what ordinary people would regard as a simple matter.

Even the few who do have experience in the real world were only there for long enough to pick up some surface facility with a particular field but lack any real depth. On top of this, many are blindsided by colleagues making foolish statements which others then have to "manage" when the only sensible answer is to respond "s/he is talking rubbish - please ignore them".

:cautious:
 
arclight said:
You are 200% correct. It is an outrage.
I cannot help but wonder whether it is down to incompetence in the chain of command or is there some other reason. I have not the slightest doubt that this country has the people and the where with all to marshal our resources then rapidly move the kit to where it is needed.
I listen to the Downing St. broadcasts every afternoon and whilst they were initially worthwhile they have now partly degenerated into waffle. When journalist asks about the lack of PPE or the shortfall in testing the gov. rep invariably sidesteps and trots out a wooly answer built around "We hope to do X, or aim to do Y, or we'll ramp the testing etc. I even detected the dreaded "lessons will be learned" twaddle.
No one seems to take any of wafflers to task when they indulge in empty talk.
Click to expand...

What do you expect they have been getting away with being wholly inadequate and waffling there way through for so long it has become the norm. Most of the time it's OK they are only dealing with minor problems like Brexit and how much tax we should pay and it's OK if they cock that up its minor 1st world problems, but in times of crisis it does matter and their inadequacies cost life's but no doubt they will waffle their way through as there are very few proper Journalists left to hold them to account and the few that are left are belittled, decried and denied access, but it's alright there are plenty of reporters who will not ask the difficult questions not push them for answers and fawn all over them and a hungry public only to eager to lap it up because they don't really want the difficult answers.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm not sure what anyone can expect that might be different. Politicians and their staff are "thinkers" not "doers". Most have never done a real job in their lives and are baffled by what ordinary people would regard as a simple matter.

Even the few who do have experience in the real world were only there for long enough to pick up some surface facility with a particular field but lack any real depth. On top of this, many are blindsided by colleagues making foolish statements which others then have to "manage" when the only sensible answer is to respond "s/he is talking rubbish - please ignore them".

:cautious:
Click to expand...

Thank you that's the best laugh I've had this week.
 
arclight said:
You are 200% correct. It is an outrage.
I cannot help but wonder whether it is down to incompetence in the chain of command or is there some other reason. I have not the slightest doubt that this country has the people and the where with all to marshal our resources then rapidly move the kit to where it is needed.
I listen to the Downing St. broadcasts every afternoon and whilst they were initially worthwhile they have now partly degenerated into waffle. When journalist asks about the lack of PPE or the shortfall in testing the gov. rep invariably sidesteps and trots out a wooly answer built around "We hope to do X, or aim to do Y, or we'll ramp the testing etc. I even detected the dreaded "lessons will be learned" twaddle.
No one seems to take any of wafflers to task when they indulge in empty talk.
Click to expand...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/
 
Donnie said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/
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Yes, the only problem with this is that The Telegraph is close to blaming the NHS leadership for this (and no doubt they are implicated) but the real villains are the Government/politicians. It’s a bit like the Grenfell inquiry which was constructed so that the first to take the blame was the Fire Service :(.

The old saying that the Government treats the People like Mushrooms, keeps them in the dark and feeds them Horseshït has never been truer :(.
 
With all the missteps we've made in handling this crisis and the long-term policy failures that have hamstrung the NHS, it's encouraging to read about one of the success stories:

'We drew up the plan over a brew' - inside operation Nightingale

London’s emergency coronavirus hospital at the Excel conference centre has been built from scratch over the last nine days in an unprecedented civil-military partnership and is ready to receive its first patients this week.

Planning has involved soldiers with experience from Afghanistan and the west African ebola crisis, working in support of health service staff to create NHS Nightingale, which will be the largest hospital in the UK, with 4,000 beds at full capacity.

The military team leader, Colonel Ashleigh Boreham, Commanding Officer, 256 City of London Field Hospital, an expert on building field hospitals in crisis zones, said the design and build was easily the largest he had undertaken in a 27-year army career.

“We literally got a phone call, arrived here, met up with the NHS about nine days ago, sat around a table and basically did what you always do. We draw a plan up, over a brew, and then from that you start to build up a plan and create the product. It’s the biggest job I’ve ever done,” Boreham said.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...plan-over-a-brew-inside-operation-nightingale
 
JohnC6 said:
A few days ago I posted regarding how religious organisations, including the Head of your catholic church, were recklessly and irresponsibly disregarding isolation advice and you know how you responded and no doubt how I came back to you on that response at which Simon Ess posted a plea stating that the forum had managed to keep politics out of it and please could we keep religion out of it. I said it then and I'll say it again. It was a very reasonable and courteous request and quite a few other members showed their support for that position with a 'like'. At that point I responded acceding to that request by asking you not to take it any further and wrote that in bold lettering. You spend enough time on here to have seen that post and I come on this morning to see you promoting your faith and church. I've noticed over time that in some of your posts you state that all we can do (in a given situation) is to pray. I resisted the temptation to challenge you on those occasions.

The report button is there but as I've posted this in the forum hopefully, a member of staff will contact you because it comes across to me as deliberate provocation, in general too, not just to me.
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John, you have repeatedly brought religion and your dislike of it into the thread. I would say that LLP has only followed your lead, and you don't really have a right to call him out on it now.

IMO of course - others may disagree.
 
Donnie said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ncovered-pandemic-warnings-buried-government/
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The most chilling quote from that article is...
“Throwing money at the problem was not necessarily the solution. The NHS eats up money. It’s a bottomless pit,” said a senior former government source. “We were in a time of austerity and it wasn’t easy.”
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Which really comes down to: "We were so obsessed with the austerity nonsense that we couldn't see the oncoming train". Contrast that with "Nightingale" and you can see the difference between politicians and real people. :cautious:
 
arclight said:
You are 200% correct. It is an outrage.
I cannot help but wonder whether it is down to incompetence in the chain of command or is there some other reason.
Click to expand...
Could it be that, that in these unprecedented times, demand for some of the ppe is a lot higher, people who would not normally be wearing it (non nhs) would have depleted the normal amount that suppliers would have.

We use nitrite gloves at work, a box of 25 pairs would normally last two people months.
Because last week, before layoff, I was wearing them all day long, replacing them everytime I went to the loo, or eating a box was only lasting a matter of days.
 
Peter10d said:
View attachment 273689

Can’t remember who asked on this forum if there was any age related data of corona deaths. The above chart refers to the first 108 UK fatalities.
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Be interesting to see "existing conditions" overlayed per age group.
 
tarric said:
What do you expect they have been getting away with being wholly inadequate and waffling there way through for so long it has become the norm. Most of the time it's OK they are only dealing with minor problems like Brexit and how much tax we should pay and it's OK if they cock that up its minor 1st world problems, but in times of crisis it does matter and their inadequacies cost life's but no doubt they will waffle their way through as there are very few proper Journalists left to hold them to account and the few that are left are belittled, decried and denied access, but it's alright there are plenty of reporters who will not ask the difficult questions not push them for answers and fawn all over them and a hungry public only to eager to lap it up because they don't really want the difficult answers.
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Too true :(. For about 20 years I’ve been shouting* at the radio/TV ”where is your successor to Robin Day?” He was briefly a lawyer and it showed in his questioning I think, in that he listened to their answers and questioned the answers. Whereas today interviewers mostly have a set of prepared questions and plough on regardless or sometime get into endlessly repeating the same question they know will not be answered in the hope of a sound bite for the news.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Day

* Not actually, I do know they can’t hear me ... I think :(.
 
ancient_mariner said:
John, you have repeatedly brought religion and your dislike of it into the thread. I would say that LLP has only followed your lead, and you don't really have a right to call him out on it now.

IMO of course - others may disagree.
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Toni.. First off, re your last comment. I, for one, would disagree that I've brought it up 'repeatedly', occasionally, yes but more to the point, in context (as with the virus discussion) or in a response. You won't find any post of mine in which I originated the subject in the way he did today so to say that LLP was following my lead is erroneous. As I mentioned, for a long time now LLP has been urging us to pray before I've ever made any comment on that or criticised organised religion. He was just blatantly promoting it and as I stated..quite unambiguously in a provocative manner which I think was his intention, anyway. Light the fire and retreat.

My point was that we'd drawn a line under it but I understand full well why you've posted in support of him as you and I had an exchange re those promoting religion who are involved in food banks with one being expelled from an organisation that oversees such matters. You know which one I'm talking about.

Your post required a response (if for nothing else...courtesy) but let's put this to bed once and for all and maybe you could have a PM word with LLP. He'd probably listen to you.
 
I would like an explanation why places like South Korea and Germany were able to get thousands of testing kits some weeks ago but the UK was not and is now only starting to catch up.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
I would like an explanation why places like South Korea and Germany were able to get thousands of testing kits some weeks ago but the UK was not and is now only starting to catch up.

Dave
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Boris.

End of!
 
Tringa said:
I would like an explanation why places like South Korea and Germany were able to get thousands of testing kits some weeks ago but the UK was not and is now only starting to catch up.

Dave
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Not sure about Germany, but with Soth Korea, after experiencing the problems of dealing with the MERS outbreak in 2015, they had put a lot of effort and money into being extremely well prepared for any future epidemic, such as this one.

It's worth reading about how South Korea have dealt with this, as not only were they better prepared, they also used technology, such as mobile phones n a very effective way.

https://theconversation.com/coronav...-due-to-its-acceptance-of-surveillance-134068
 
Tringa said:
I would like an explanation why places like South Korea and Germany were able to get thousands of testing kits some weeks ago but the UK was not and is now only starting to catch up.

Dave
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I've mentioned a couple of times that there's a worldwide shortage of Taq polymerase that's a key component of the PCR test - why this is not being mentioned I have no idea, but it's likely a key reason we don't have enough kits.

There may also be some high hurdles in the administration to get testing rolled out quickly.
 
JohnC6 said:
Toni.. First off, re your last comment. I, for one, would disagree that I've brought it up 'repeatedly', occasionally, yes but more to the point, in context (as with the virus discussion) or in a response. You won't find any post of mine in which I originated the subject in the way he did today so to say that LLP was following my lead is erroneous. As I mentioned, for a long time now LLP has been urging us to pray before I've ever made any comment on that or criticised organised religion. He was just blatantly promoting it and as I stated..quite unambiguously in a provocative manner which I think was his intention, anyway. Light the fire and retreat.

My point was that we'd drawn a line under it but I understand full well why you've posted in support of him as you and I had an exchange re those promoting religion who are involved in food banks with one being expelled from an organisation that oversees such matters. You know which one I'm talking about.

Your post required a response (if for nothing else...courtesy) but let's put this to bed once and for all and maybe you could have a PM word with LLP. He'd probably listen to you.
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No - let me be plain - you do NOT understand : if you did the you would not have posted like this.

And do you really think that an expression like "all we can do is pray" is an injunction to get on our knees?

Please, just stop trying to stir things up and then shift blame.
 
JohnC6 said:
A few days ago I posted regarding how religious organisations, including the Head of your catholic church, were recklessly and irresponsibly disregarding isolation advice and you know how you responded and no doubt how I came back to you on that response at which Simon Ess posted a plea stating that the forum had managed to keep politics out of it and please could we keep religion out of it. I said it then and I'll say it again. It was a very reasonable and courteous request and quite a few other members showed their support for that position with a 'like'. At that point I responded acceding to that request by asking you not to take it any further and wrote that in bold lettering. You spend enough time on here to have seen that post and I come on this morning to see you promoting your faith and church. I've noticed over time that in some of your posts you state that all we can do (in a given situation) is to pray. I resisted the temptation to challenge you on those occasions.

The report button is there but as I've posted this in the forum hopefully, a member of staff will contact you because it comes across to me as deliberate provocation, in general too, not just to me.
Click to expand...

No, will never tolerate anti Christian censorship or bias. Report and provoke all you like, I don't care

The message is to those that still care. You have the fee will to choose but would rather take it away from others.
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
No, will never tolerate anti Christian censorship or bias. Report and provoke all you like, I don't care
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So I take it that blaming god for this mess is out of the question? :naughty:
 
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