The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Retune said:
Another 381 have died in hospital:
View: https://BANNED/DHSCgovuk/status/1244998310735331330


Numbers of other COVID-19 associated deaths are being collated, but this takes longer:
View: https://BANNED/ONS/status/1244905924000731136
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It's less than was announced earlier, do you know why the discrepancy?
 
broc said:
You couldn't make this up.......story reported by multiple media sources.....

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-test-kits-contaminated-covid-19-a4403021.html
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From the Metro story, quoting the Telegraph:

A spokesperson for Eurofins told the Telegraph: ‘In rare occasions, delays in some orders may occur if based on Eurofins Genomics stringent quality and environmental control procedures, manufacturing of a product may not meet the quality or purity criteria set by Eurofins Genomics. ‘We are aware that contaminations of the nature you mentioned have been observed by several primers and probes manufacturers around the world after they produced SARS-COV2 positive controls. ‘Those initial problems can be easily resolved by proper cleaning and production segregation procedures.’

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/31/testing-kits-heading-uk-contaminated-coronavirus-12481933

I suspect that might mean viral nucleic acid (RNA or cDNA or PCR product) rather than live virus, which would mess up the test but not be hazardous.
 
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jakeblu said:
It's less than was announced earlier, do you know why the discrepancy?
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What number did you see earlier? Maybe someone combined the NHS and ONS counts for hospitalised and non-hospitalised deaths?
 
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HEADS UP
We are getting a lot of RTM's about ( mostly) two people trying to point score off one another.
We don't want to ban anyone from the thread, as its important to all.
But if the point scoring continues there will be a couple or 3 less people posting.
 
A delicious irony of the present situation is that Boris, who for years and years told lies and half-truths about the EU sparking outraged headlines in the red-top press, is now plagued by similar headlines, again about half-truths, vague claims and no doubt some outright lies :). The biter bit indeed :)
 
UK coronavirus death toll reaches 1,789 amid data reporting concerns

Dr Simon Clarke, associate professor in cellular microbiology at the University of Reading, said the figures were “shocking but sadly unsurprising”. He added: “There will be days when the figures are comparatively low, but there will also be days when we see distressingly large increases. It’s therefore important to look at trends over a number of consecutive days, rather than draw conclusions from any single day’s figures.” Prof Jim Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute and professor of structural biology, Oxford University, urged the government to be more consistent in the data it provides. “Some of the NHS trusts reporting deaths in today’s NHS press release are apparently counting deaths over several days, other trusts for one day. Some trusts stop at the 29th [March], other trusts report deaths on the 30th. It is unclear how these numbers relate to the overall daily number from the UK government,” he said. “However, it does appear deaths from previous days are only now being reported. This will have artificially decreased the previous daily totals and have increased today’s totals. Scientists have consistently warned that we cannot judge our progress in curbing the epidemic by a single day’s reported number of deaths.” Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said the daily figures should be treated with caution but they suggest the UK is two weeks behind Italy. He said: “The extreme day-to-day variation in reported Covid-19 deaths is far more than we would expect from chance variability and must be due to reporting practices. Over the last week, reported deaths rose on average by an estimated 21% each day, similar to Italy at the same stage of the epidemic, around two weeks ago. Italy’s death rate appears to have now levelled off at around 900 a day, and we can hope that our death rate will also flatten off due to the measures started a few weeks ago.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...oll-reaches-1789-amid-data-reporting-concerns
 
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sphexx said:
Ah, chromatography! I used to do that in the late 1950s but it looked like this (though on a smaller scale, with a rotary fraction collector with hundreds of glass vials):
https://flic.kr/p/8sVXKW
View: https://flic.kr/p/8sVXKW


I expect it’s still the same (NOT) :)
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Y'know it's not so different really. My first experience, probably in '81 or '82 was of a guy called Tony Bradburn trying to separate hepatitis B surface antigen on a 3 meter long soft gel (Sepharose G25) column using gravity feed and flowing from the bottom up, because otherwise the gel would crush and the column not run. Since that time I've done quite a bit over the years: ion exchange, affinity of various kinds, gel filtration (what I was doing there, with Sephadex G25 disposable coloumns) and a bit of HPLC. Sometimes we still use fraction collectors, sometimes not. I'm still a bit of a bucket chemist at heart, and those columns make perfect sense for someone working at prep scale.

Petrochemist said:
I use chromatography every working day.
The system I'm working on currently only uses 0.1 microliters per injection & 98% of that is dumped at injection. Somewhat different to the illustration. Some of our other methods use even smaller sample sizes o_O
Not surprisingly the instruments look very different too, our widest columns are 4.6mm id, going down to 0.1mm id.
Click to expand...

And this is the other side of things - volumes are getting smaller and smaller to make everything separate faster with less material. I've just finished developing an assay for another company that requires a 5ul sample volume. It's nuts trying to manually pipette volumes like that and still get the same kind of precision one would get with a 100ul volume, but anything less will need automation.
 
Retune said:
UK coronavirus death toll reaches 1,789 amid data reporting concerns

Dr Simon Clarke, associate professor in cellular microbiology at the University of Reading, said the figures were “shocking but sadly unsurprising”. He added: “There will be days when the figures are comparatively low, but there will also be days when we see distressingly large increases. It’s therefore important to look at trends over a number of consecutive days, rather than draw conclusions from any single day’s figures.” Prof Jim Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute and professor of structural biology, Oxford University, urged the government to be more consistent in the data it provides. “Some of the NHS trusts reporting deaths in today’s NHS press release are apparently counting deaths over several days, other trusts for one day. Some trusts stop at the 29th [March], other trusts report deaths on the 30th. It is unclear how these numbers relate to the overall daily number from the UK government,” he said. “However, it does appear deaths from previous days are only now being reported. This will have artificially decreased the previous daily totals and have increased today’s totals. Scientists have consistently warned that we cannot judge our progress in curbing the epidemic by a single day’s reported number of deaths.” Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at the University of Cambridge, said the daily figures should be treated with caution but they suggest the UK is two weeks behind Italy. He said: “The extreme day-to-day variation in reported Covid-19 deaths is far more than we would expect from chance variability and must be due to reporting practices. Over the last week, reported deaths rose on average by an estimated 21% each day, similar to Italy at the same stage of the epidemic, around two weeks ago. Italy’s death rate appears to have now levelled off at around 900 a day, and we can hope that our death rate will also flatten off due to the measures started a few weeks ago.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...oll-reaches-1789-amid-data-reporting-concerns
Click to expand...

No matter what business you are in, if historical data is inaccurate it will prejudice any attempt to make accurate forecasts. All the staff involved are probably under tremendous strain and are doing their best.
When I hear daily reports of medical staff not having adequate PPE I can only think that we have absolutely no right asking them to take such a risk.
 
I always called Trump a “snake-oil salesman” funny (not really :() that he has become almost literally one, as he pushes Avigan hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine and now Avigan as miracle cures for CV :(
 
ancient_mariner said:
Y'know it's not so different really. My first experience, probably in '81 or '82 was of a guy called Tony Bradburn trying to separate hepatitis B surface antigen on a 3 meter long soft gel (Sepharose G25) column using gravity feed and flowing from the bottom up, because otherwise the gel would crush and the column not run. Since that time I've done quite a bit over the years: ion exchange, affinity of various kinds, gel filtration (what I was doing there, with Sephadex G25 disposable coloumns) and a bit of HPLC. Sometimes we still use fraction collectors, sometimes not. I'm still a bit of a bucket chemist at heart, and those columns make perfect sense for someone working at prep scale.



And this is the other side of things - volumes are getting smaller and smaller to make everything separate faster with less material. I've just finished developing an assay for another company that requires a 5ul sample volume. It's nuts trying to manually pipette volumes like that and still get the same kind of precision one would get with a 100ul volume, but anything less will need automation.
Click to expand...
All the chromatography I did was on steroids using gravity fed columns of alumina (about 1 cm diameter) or kieselgur, a bit larger and tedious work to construct, and classic paper chromatography too of course, so nothing like the scale of the photo although his work bench etc is strangely familiar. I was sad to see most of our wonderful (polished!) teak lab benches and doors etc get covered up with Formica, though it didn’t directly affect me as ours only had to complete with blood, shït and flesh :).
 
sphexx said:
All the chromatography I did was on steroids
Click to expand...

Really big, muscular chromatography then. ;)

Wellcome Chemical Research Laboratories at Beckenham were all fitted out with mahogany, teak & marble, and it all got torn out for more modern, durable benching in the 80s. One of the guys fitted out a boat using wood from there, and I STILL have a smallish piece of marble in the shed. :)
 
sphexx said:
All the chromatography I did was on steroids using gravity fed columns of alumina (about 1 cm diameter) or kieselgur, a bit larger and tedious work to construct, and classic paper chromatography too of course, so nothing like the scale of the photo although his work bench etc is strangely familiar. I was sad to see most of our wonderful (polished!) teak lab benches and doors etc get covered up with Formica, though it didn’t directly affect me as ours only had to complete with blood, shït and flesh :).
Click to expand...

Well that covers my world in the 1970's in NHS pathology......haemotology & blood transfusion, microbiology (including the TB test suite) and histopathology laboratories......and not forgetting my stint in the VD reference laboratory.

Very few of the "benches" I worked at included gloves to go with the white coat(PPE)! In regard to the aforementioned reference lab l learned that one of the older time served technicians had a habit of eating his lunch at the 'separating bench'...he caught Hepatitis
 
sphexx said:
I always called Trump a “snake-oil salesman” funny (not really :() that he has become almost literally one, as he pushes Avigan hydroxychloroquine, chloroquine and now Avigan as miracle cures for CV :(
Click to expand...

If we believe BBC then that would be the case. If we believe some medics in the USA, France and Asia it is at least partially helpful and now it's FDA approved for use. I am certain it is not the best drug when we will look back in retrospect but probably a whole lot better option than nothing for certain patients. Meanwhile I'm just waiting for more BS to appear on BBC. Last week they also told not to eat garlic and lemons.

The main difference is that Trump, a person with zero scientific background, is at least trying to follow the best leads available to him and try something, while over here we are still arguing about the ventilators and where they should come from with no real treatment options. Or that is at least the impression you get from the media. I hope it is not as bad but I'd really not want to end up in the hospital tomorrow.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Really big, muscular chromatography then. ;)

Wellcome Chemical Research Laboratories at Beckenham were all fitted out with mahogany, teak & marble, and it all got torn out for more modern, durable benching in the 80s. One of the guys fitted out a boat using wood from there, and I STILL have a smallish piece of marble in the shed. :)
Click to expand...

Another blast from the past ;)
During the 1980's when I was selling laboratory equipment the Wellcome labs at Beckenham and the Beecham one at Tadworth had the most wonderful wood panelling in their reception halls.....though cannot recall much about the labs themselves :(
 
ancient_mariner said:
Really big, muscular chromatography then. ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I realised that when I wrote it but some of it was moderately muscular — shaking up 5 litre flasks of urine and solvents to extract material and carrying Nitrogen cylinders up the stairs when the 1920s vintage lift (singular) broke down :).
Wellcome Chemical Research Laboratories at Beckenham were all fitted out with mahogany, teak & marble, and it all got torn out for more modern, durable benching in the 80s. One of the guys fitted out a boat using wood from there, and I STILL have a smallish piece of marble in the shed. :)
Click to expand...
I lived not far from Wellcome Labs, often cycled past, and remember going on a school visit there but that was my only contact with them ... I seem to remember they produced the pregnant mare serum we used to use as a source of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH)?
 
Box Brownie said:
Well that covers my world in the 1970's in NHS pathology......haemotology & blood transfusion, microbiology (including the TB test suite) and histopathology laboratories......and not forgetting my stint in the VD reference laboratory.

Very few of the "benches" I worked at included gloves to go with the white coat(PPE)! In regard to the aforementioned reference lab l learned that one of the older time served technicians had a habit of eating his lunch at the 'separating bench'...he caught Hepatitis
Click to expand...
I think we have some kind of sub-forum here :)
 
Back to work yesterday after 14 days isolation.......furloughed for 21 days now:cautious:
 
LongLensPhotography said:
If we believe BBC then that would be the case. If we believe some medics in the USA, France and Asia it is at least partially helpful and now it's FDA approved for use. I am certain it is not the best drug when we will look back in retrospect but probably a whole lot better option than nothing for certain patients. Meanwhile I'm just waiting for more BS to appear on BBC. Last week they also told not to eat garlic and lemons.

The main difference is that Trump, a person with zero scientific background, is at least trying to follow the best leads available to him and try something, while over here we are still arguing about the ventilators and where they should come from with no real treatment options. Or that is at least the impression you get from the media. I hope it is not as bad but I'd really not want to end up in the hospital tomorrow.
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I’m NOT saying the drugs don’t work, they may or may not, but they are so far untested/unproven and your statement that he is “at least trying to follow the best leads available” is pure bonkers at best. If it was you or me suggesting these things it would be OK but he’s the fücking President, people die when he has his “ideas”, can you not see that.
 
Trump talks of promises (his or any that meet his narrative) as foregone conclusions and therefore "a truth" to be praised & supported.

Now, will his 'promise' of the US being open again for business by the end of April backfire on him???
 
Box Brownie said:
Trump talks of promises (his or any that meet his narrative) as foregone conclusions and therefore "a truth" to be praised & supported.

Now, will his 'promise' of the US being open again for business by the end of April backfire on him???
Click to expand...

Almost certainly surely?

USA had their first deaths on March 2nd.
In less than one month their deaths have surpassed China's deaths of over 3 months.

OK its not a statistic as such but it's gotta be worrying for those in USA right now!
 
Box Brownie said:
Trump talks of promises (his or any that meet his narrative) as foregone conclusions and therefore "a truth" to be praised & supported.

Now, will his 'promise' of the US being open again for business by the end of April backfire on him???
Click to expand...
Nah, he’ll just say he never said it, as usual. The Washington Post has just put up this timeline (free to read) of Trumps gyrations, more turns than Gyrinus substriatus;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1
 
Human connection bolsters the immune system.
”Studies have revealed that human connection — something as simple as getting an offer of help from a stranger or looking at a picture of someone you love — can ease pain and reduce physical symptoms of stress. People who feel supported by their social networks are more likely to live longer.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/scie...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1

I hate to say this :) but maybe we should listen to the Mods and be nice to each other here :(.
 
broc said:
Trump is told to abandon attempts to reopen US for business at Easter, I wonder why?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11297...ign-warned-move-would-hurt-re-election-hopes/
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sphexx said:
Nah, he’ll just say he never said it, as usual. The Washington Post has just put up this timeline (free to read) of Trumps gyrations, more turns than Gyrinus substriatus;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1
Click to expand...


What is worrying, is the possibility of the election being postponed, keeping Trump in office for longer.

Then, the election is rescheduled once the outbreak is over or contained. By then, the attention deficit disorder generation will have quickly forgotten the dead, and will believe Trumps lie that he single handedly developed the vaccine for COVID-19 because ‘he knows about this stuff’ ....
 
Uncle Fester said:
What is worrying, is the possibility of the election being postponed, keeping Trump in office for longer.

Then, the election is rescheduled once the outbreak is over or contained. By then, the attention deficit disorder generation will have quickly forgotten the dead, and will believe Trumps lie that he single handedly developed the vaccine for COVID-19 because ‘he knows about this stuff’ ....
Click to expand...

I was thinking exactly this earlier.
 
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