The virus. PPE. Part 1

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tijuana taxi said:
I think my understanding is comprehensive enough to know people in the UK have a bit more freedom than those in China or the old USSR
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You see, you are doing it again, where did I say otherwise?
 
Luckily the organisers of the photography show have used common sense and postponed the event . Wish our government would use the same common sense ,but till it escalates beyond control they will do SFA ..


going to be a weird summer that’s for sure
 
Raymond Lin said:
and what has that got anything to do with treating a virus again?
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Plenty, they cut corners.

Raymond Lin said:
some people cannot separate one from another. Do I need to point out China’s human rights records first, their treatment of Muslims on the west of the country, their oppression of free speech, write a thesis to criticise all the fabric of their country, people, policies first before I can move on to the virus?

Or are people so weak are debate they have to say “yeah, but that hospital is pre-fab”.

Honestly, if that is the only rebuttal, it’s not even worth my time. It’s about the same as a 5 year old got caught with his hand in the cookie jar then they say “But mum, kevin also stole a cookie from the jar too!”
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No need to cry.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I won't, won't be replying to you at all from now on, as I said, not worth my time.
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You made a statement, facts were provided as to why what you said was feasible. If you can't accept it, that is your problem.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Whole of Italy just went on lockdown.
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I think that is what has provoked the UK decision to require all arrivals from Italy to self isolate for two weeks. (I have only heard that info from an LBC presenter and not direct from a government source, therefore I await verification).

Looks like Italy is trying to control a stampede. I wish them good fortune.
 
arclight said:
I think that is what has provoked the UK decision to require all arrivals from Italy to self isolate for two weeks. (I have only heard that info from an LBC presenter and not direct from a government source, therefore I await verification).

Looks like Italy is trying to control a stampede. I wish them good fortune.
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Seriously, we are only about 2 weeks behind Italy on the timeline.

I would say the rest of Europe like France, Germany and Spain are slightly ahead of us, by 2-3 days maybe.

2 weeks from now I foresee most of Europe would be in lockdown like Italy. I hope i am wrong, I really do. The problem in the UK, instead of China, is that the infection here is popping up all over the country, it is not just 1 or 2 counties. So you can't just lockdown locally, but there will come to a point where schools will be shut, you can't have like 1000, 2000 infected daily with hundreds dying everyday (that's the figure in Italy today before someone says that won't happen) and say "it's just like flu.
 
When there are NO new cases in China I will believe they have it beaten, until then it could reappear in an instant, as it could anywhere.
 
Tomorrow the Cheltenham Festival-that's 4 days of horse racing- will go ahead. Many horses and stable staff will come from Ireland and NI. It's the event of the year for them. Between them there are 16 confirmed cases with one,in NI,I think, being community-based..ie no known contact with anyone who has come from any of the affected regions in the world. Last year 260,000 attended..including overseas visitors. It's one thing to cancel a football match with mainly indigenous spectators attending, quite another to have an event with such a huge attendance and racing enthusiasts coming from all over the world. I think this is a fair comparison with football etc and these races. At football matches you go and maybe a small number,relatively-speaking ,will get a hot drink and a pie at half-time . With racing it's ongoing all day and there are a number of bars and refreshment stalls and huge dining areas. The bookies are handling bank notes taking them off punters and handing them out. I heard that the virus can be transmitted on a bank note. Management are installing more toilet facilities and having hand-gel about the place .Infact they're having staff on hand at the toilets to ensure there is no lack of gel/soap/ etc. I can well imagine people using the loos and can't be faffed waiting for a sink to become free. The management ask that no-one with any coughs/colds or virus-like symptons attend. Trouble is there's the incubation period and apart from that the medical people don't know the full nature of this virus. The one aspect causing problems is when someone who has had no contact, as far as they know, with anyone from a region with the virus rampant, succumbs to it.That's difficult because a victim could contract it from someone they've had close contact with who has had contact with someone else who had been abroad and is in the incubation period. 10 days is it ?

The lost revenue, should it be cancelled, is enourmous. It's not just the revenue at the course but the local economy. Hotels, buses..many come by train,retailers..more that I've probably overlooked. Well,flights from Ireland and NI...Ryan Air/ Easy Jet for instance. Call me a cynic but I think this aspect has won the day with government. I think that next week when more cases have been confirmed the government will not allow such large events to go ahead...just let this massive revenue-raising event go ahead, then a clamp down.

How much would a cancellation cost the industry ? Race Course management won't say but in the link below it shows that the betting industry alone would lose at least £100 million.There's a section on this at the end of the article entitled ''How much would it cost the industry ? So..not only has HMG had the race course management/racing industry bending it's ear but the powerful betting industry too. Look at the struggle those against the high stakes allowed to be put into the so-called Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBTs) had trying to reduce the £100 max to £2. The industry was shocked that it was reduced to that low level.

I just think it's a stitch up and who will pay the real price ? A doctor (lecturer) at Essex Uni has advised over 60's and people with heart or chest complaints or any other at-risk group to stay away.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/cor...ll-the-cheltenham-festival-be-affected/425227

To give an idea of the scale of this event here's a list.
https://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/che.../about-the-event/key-facts-stats-and-figures/
 
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JohnC6 said:
Tomorrow the Cheltenham Festival-that's 4 days of horse racing- will go ahead. Many horses and stable staff will come from Ireland and NI. It's the event of the year for them. Between them there are 16 confirmed cases with one,in NI,I think, being community-based..ie no known contact with anyone who has come from any of the affected regions in the world. Last year 260,000 attended..including overseas visitors. It's one thing to cancel a football match with mainly indigenous spectators attending, quite another to have an event with such a huge attendance and racing enthusiasts coming from all over the world. I think this is a fair comparison with football etc and these races. At football matches you go and maybe a small number,relatively-speaking ,will get a hot drink and a pie at half-time . With racing it's ongoing all day and there are a number of bars and refreshment stalls and huge dining areas. The bookies are handling bank notes taking them off punters and handing them out. I heard that the virus can be transmitted on a bank note. Management are installing more toilet facilities and having hand-gel about the place .Infact they're having staff on hand at the toilets to ensure there is no lack of gel/soap/ etc. I can well imagine people using the loos and can't be faffed waiting for a sink to become free. The management ask that no-one with any coughs/colds or virus-like symptons attend. Trouble is there's the incubation period and apart from that the medical people don't know the full natureof this virus. The one aspect causing problems is when someone who has had no contact,as far as they know,with anyone from a region with the virus rampant, succumbs to it.That's difficult because a victim could contract it from someone they've had close contact with who had contact with someone else who had been abroad .

The lostb revenue, should it be cancelled, is enourmous. It's not just the revenue at the course but the local economy. Hotels, buses..many come by train,retailers..more that I've probably overlooked. WEell, flights from Ireland..Ryan Air. for instance. Call me a cynic but I think this aspect has won the day with government. I think that next week when more cases have been confirmed the government will not allow such large events to go ahead...just let this massive revenue-raising event go ahead, then a clamp down.

How much would a cancellation cost the industry ? Race Course management won't sa but in the link below it shows that the betting industry alone would lose £100 million.There's a section on this at the end of the article entitled ''How much would it cost the industry ? So..not only has HMG had the race course management bending it's ear but the powerful betting industry. I just think it's a stich up and who will pay the real price ? A doctor (lecturer) at Essex Uni has advised over 60's and people with heart or chest complaints or any other at-risk group to stay away.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/cor...ll-the-cheltenham-festival-be-affected/425227

To give an idea of the scale of this event here's a list.
https://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/che.../about-the-event/key-facts-stats-and-figures/
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Bloody nightmare! Racecourses tend to be good places to spread bugs around at the best of times. Only saving grace is that you are in the open. Hopefully it’s very windy and p***es with rain all day so people won’t need to wash their hands :)
 
sphexx said:
Bloody nightmare! Racecourses tend to be good places to spread bugs around at the best of times. Only saving grace is that you are in the open. Hopefully it’s very windy and p***es with rain all day so people won’t need to wash their hands :)
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Very good..re rain and hand-washing...Lol. Just had to ammend (edit) it, Richard.

Re the weather: Heavy rain tomorrow..day one.Thursday not looking good either. I wanted to go to Bath to photograph a steam loco (Mayflower) hauling a Tour train and stopping there. I'd go there by train,easy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2653261

This is Accuweather. How they so often differ is beyond me as they must input the same data into their models. The only explanation is that they interpret the data differently.
 
John, I’ve only been to the Cheltenham area once and it was I think February 1958 returning from 2 years in Aden (National Service) and it was the coldest place in England at that time. We broke up all the wooden furniture we could find and stuffed into the metal stoves that were freestanding in the centre of the otherwise unheated huts in an attempt to keep warm — we were about to be demobbed so hardly cared :).

I’ve thought about that since when I’ve been hunting on moorland near Masham , you can still see the outlines of the huts that housed the Leeds Pals Regiment before they were shipped off to
FRANCE in 1914-18, poor buggers must have frozen to near death in North Yorkshire before being shot to death in France :(. I decided we had it easy!
 
Report from the front line in Italy, likely a preview of what to expect here (see the whole thread):
View: https://BANNED/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129
 
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Apparently 1% of people quarantined for 14 days may to go on to develop symptoms after the period is over.

The US team analysed known cases from China and other countries to understand more about the disease.

Most people who develop symptoms do so on or around day five.

Anyone who is symptom-free by day 12 is unlikely to get symptoms, but they may still be infectious carriers.

The researchers advise people who could be infectious - whether they have symptoms or not - to self-isolate for 14 days to avoid spreading it to others.

If they follow that guidance - which has already been adopted in the UK and US - it is estimated that for every 100 individuals quarantined for a fortnight, one of them might develop symptoms after being released, Annals of Internal Medicine reports.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51800707

It appears that 14 days is not an absolute 'safe' period.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Apparently 1% of people quarantined for 14 days may to go on to develop symptoms after the period is over.

The US team analysed known cases from China and other countries to understand more about the disease.

Most people who develop symptoms do so on or around day five.

Anyone who is symptom-free by day 12 is unlikely to get symptoms, but they may still be infectious carriers.

The researchers advise people who could be infectious - whether they have symptoms or not - to self-isolate for 14 days to avoid spreading it to others.

If they follow that guidance - which has already been adopted in the UK and US - it is estimated that for every 100 individuals quarantined for a fortnight, one of them might develop symptoms after being released, Annals of Internal Medicine reports.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51800707

It appears that 14 days is not an absolute 'safe' period.
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Lots of "may" "estimate" "might" in there to be fair. And all based on the paper that itself admits that understanding of the incubation of covid 19 is limited based all the data on only 181 known cases.

Now, Im not saying that its impossible, but there appear only to be 3 cases worldwide that report positive cases after 14 days, one at 27 days in Hubei, one in Anyang China of an asymptomatic woman who the paper do imply the first result may or may not have been a first negative then tested positive after a second test and after a different family member became symptomatic and a third at 24 days also in china which looks like it was in fact from a second exposure and therefore inaccurate.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I think so, WHO is also there.

Before there were leaked videos of people dropping dead on streets, we don’t see that anymore.
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Pretty much all those videos were fake
 
Raymond Lin said:
i didn’t ask for what you do, I asked for proof.

mom happy to be proven wrong but I need more than “trust me” from a random on the internet.
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I think that’s a bit extreme :(. You can’t describe @jakeblu as “some random .. “ given he’s been a member here for years and personally I haven’t seen his posting wild assertions etc. I do think your question was reasonable but he may be unable to cite the source for confidentiality reasons etc :)
 
jakeblu said:
..and yet you're prepared to 'trust' random unverified postings of videos?
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i trust the news (not just 1 channel or 1 paper but across a dozen others) more than just 1 guy on the internet.

sooo, proof?
 
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the first common sense statement I have seen on t.v so far came this morning from Rory Stewart ,who stated that schools etc should have been shut down at least a week ago ,we are to late acting on this
 
Some further info I found out this morning on the situation in Italy.

As we already know, the virus affects the respiratory system. The solution seems to be that those with underlying problems who catch it are put on a respirator until the illness has passed, however there are not enough beds or respirators to go round. Decisions are having to be made as to who gets treatments and who doesn't based on expected length of life after recovery. Apparently people in their 60's are going without treatment to allow others to have it, its hardly an old age.

Not a direct result of the virus itself, my a friend and colleagues grandmother passed away last night. She cannot go home to be with her family.

For all the talk of it thinning the heard and it only taking those already close to the end, the situation if pretty s*** for those going through it.
 
sphexx said:
I think that’s a bit extreme :(. You can’t describe @jakeblu as “some random .. “ given he’s been a member here for years and personally I haven’t seen his posting wild assertions etc. I do think your question was reasonable but he may be unable to cite the source for confidentiality reasons etc :)
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I am on a few other forums, and there are some established members who are eyeball deep into conspiracy theories, they go as far as to think the earth is flat, moon landing never happened.

Being a member for a long time doesn’t really cut it for me, evidence to support your claim does, I don’t care of your name, gender, age or profession.

I would LOVED to be proven wrong, I love to open my eyes but blind trust? Narh, not going to happen.
 
sphexx said:
I think that’s a bit extreme :(. You can’t describe @jakeblu as “some random .. “ given he’s been a member here for years and personally I haven’t seen his posting wild assertions etc. I do think your question was reasonable but he may be unable to cite the source for confidentiality reasons etc :)
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I don't have a problem with him questioning my comments, I am just some random guy on the internet, and it's important not to take things at face value. I just wish he would apply that level of skepticism to the videos he watches.
 
Rest of the world should have refused entry to the Chinese from affected areas right at the start.
About time they were more choosy with what they eat, only just banned eating wild animals
Some truth in the saying the only thing with four legs they won't eat is a table
 
jakeblu said:
I don't have a problem with him questioning my comments, I am just some random guy on the internet, and it's important not to take things at face value. I just wish he would apply that level of skepticism to the videos he watches.
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So, proof?

As it is “what you do” then you should have all of it at your fingertips.

As I said, happy to be proven wrong, evidence on all the videos online are all fake. I don’t need 100, let’s start with 1, like the 2 hospitals that they built. Prove to me that they are not hospitals. Prove to me that there are no doctors and nurses in there.
 
j crossley said:
Lets put some perspective on this.

In the UK 321 people out of a total population of 67,000,000 have been infected.
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How much perspective do you want?
16 weeks ago the virus didn't even exist.
Wonder what the Chinese and Italians would say about perspective....
 
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