The virus. PPE. Part 1

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On the subject of having to go to work.

A chap I know at work is endlessly skint. He gets paid at the end of the month, pays his bills, fills his cupboard with beans and pot noodles and by the 7th of the month he has no money left. He lives by himself, has no family and no money in the bank/savings. He has a crap employer that doesn’t pay sickpay and doesn’t give a toss about it‘s workforce. SSP wouldnt be enough for him to survive on. I would guarantee that if he got sick he would still go to work, assuming his symptoms were mild enough for him to still do so, because he would be worried about getting sacked or not having money for food the following month. I’m sure there are many more in his position. I wonder if Boris has a plan to help people like him?
 
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Raymond Lin said:
This is why this disease will not be contained in the west.
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WHO are forecasting that it will become a pandemic.

Italy has had another large rise in diagnosed infections. Now 9172 (almost up 2000 since yesterday).

Italy now holds No.2 position in the world league.
What is not explained is why the death rate in Italy (5%) is higher than China (4.4%)
Whilst Italy has a high percentage of old people the country with the highest percentage of old people is Japan, but the death rate there is much lower (3.3%).
These percentages are based on the latest published figures this afternoon.
 
arclight said:
What is not explained is why the death rate in Italy (5%) is higher than China (4.4%)
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At a guess, either they have been particularly good at infecting their old & weak or they have been poor at detecting mild/asymptomatic infections.
 
arclight said:
WHO are forecasting that it will become a pandemic.

Italy has had another large rise in diagnosed infections. Now 9172 (almost up 2000 since yesterday).

Italy now holds No.2 position in the world league.
What is not explained is why the death rate in Italy (5%) is higher than China (4.4%)
Whilst Italy has a high percentage of old people the country with the highest percentage of old people is Japan, but the death rate there is much lower (3.3%).
These percentages are based on the latest published figures this afternoon.
Click to expand...
I would have thought it was entirely possible that different populations may have different susceptibilities. Japan’s a very homogenous population. Maybe Chinese people have been regularly exposed to related bugs in their villages (that they still go back to each year) and have some immunity.
Someone mentioned earlier about how Japanese don’t do hand shaking/hugging and like to wear face masks normally so that’s a factor.
 
ancient_mariner said:
At a guess, either they have been particularly good at infecting their old & weak or they have been poor at detecting mild/asymptomatic infections.
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I should think the former particularly since the old are still in family situations and they are a tactile lot — full disclosure, I was an Eytie by marriage :), but now divorced so I suppose I’m not anymore :(.
 
arclight said:
WHO are forecasting that it will become a pandemic.

Italy has had another large rise in diagnosed infections. Now 9172 (almost up 2000 since yesterday).

Italy now holds No.2 position in the world league.
What is not explained is why the death rate in Italy (5%) is higher than China (4.4%)
Whilst Italy has a high percentage of old people the country with the highest percentage of old people is Japan, but the death rate there is much lower (3.3%).
These percentages are based on the latest published figures this afternoon.
Click to expand...

China can build a hospital with 1000 beds in a week, they can send on 30,000 medics from the rest of the billion people round the country. They have the factories and man power to make their own equipment, meds, PPE etc.

essentially China has the resources to deal with an outbreak like this. As long as it didn’t take over their entire country. They decided to do it when it was just 1 big city, 1 province.

Italy waited when they had to shut down 1/4 of their country. They are far more stretched, less resources.

Of course, the age of the patients has an direct effect, but let’s assume on average they are similar. The above is why I think China’s figures are the way they are and actually there are very few countries will be able to match it if they let it over take their own country’s healthcare system.
 
Can China's figures be trusted?
 
Raymond Lin said:
China can build a hospital with 1000 beds in a week, they can send on 30,000 medics from the rest of the billion people round the country. They have the factories and man power to make their own equipment, meds, PPE etc.
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Interesting theory. :naughty:
 
Whole of Italy is now in lock down from tomorrow (Tuesday)..........

Meanwhile in the UK, the Photography Show and the Video Show in Birmingham is postponed
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
Interesting theory. :naughty:
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Did you not see the hospital being built? Or did I dream that? Or is it a theory they have a billion + people? Or a theory they have factories?

Or are you drunk? Is that why you are winking at me?

I swear, some people on the internet deserved to be ignored, I think I just found another.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Did you not see the hospital being built? Or did I dream that? Or is it a theory they have a billion + people? Or a theory they have factories?
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They also have a reputation for poor quality materials, products and poor regard to safety.
 
nilagin said:
They also have a reputation for poor quality materials, products and poor regard to safety.
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I knew someone will say that (hotel collapsed), but that doesn’t remove the fact that the hospital is there now, it was built for this crisis so since their infection rate today is lower than that of the UK. They could blow up the hospital if they want and it won’t matter, fall down or not, it served it’s purpose.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Did you not see the hospital being built? Or did I dream that? Or is it a theory they have a billion + people? Or a theory they have factories?
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I saw some what looked like Portakabins being stacked.

Just seen a report on some of the quarantine places being unfit for human habitation - and that's the ones that haven't collapsed.

I'll take my chances in the West, thank you.
 
Nod said:
I saw some what looked like Portakabins being stacked.

Just seen a report on some of the quarantine places being unfit for human habitation - and that's the ones that haven't collapsed.

I'll take my chances in the West, thank you.
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I never said you should isolate in China, my point was that China’s isolation worked and they have the resources in man power and equipment.

the UK won’t be able to build a hospital in a week, so you will probably in a tent, or at best, a village hall.
 
What I saw being "built" wasn't a hospital, it was simply a stack of Portakabins. Might have electricity (sometimes) and maybe a doctor visiting a couple of times a day.
 
Nod said:
What I saw being "built" wasn't a hospital, it was simply a stack of Portakabins. Might have electricity (sometimes) and maybe a doctor visiting a couple of times a day.
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Everyone around the world called it a hospital, you are in a VERY small minority of 1.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Did you not see the hospital being built? Or did I dream that? Or is it a theory they have a billion + people? Or a theory they have factories?

Yes..I think it's fair to say that most people... bar Andrew....:rolleyes:.... saw the footage.
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China reports drop in cases..https://www.wsj.com/articles/drop-i...-hope-that-its-outbreak-is-ebbing-11582636045

However, this is bad news re. Iran.. Appalling government. Well educated young people though and maybe one day they will gain enough traction and oust the mullahs.

I heard this Iranian lady on the radio today. She's applied for assylum here but it will take 6 months. Just added for interest not to go off-piste with further coments. Not much can be said anyway,it speaks for itself. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-wont-return-home-pictures-without-headscarf/

Re the virus in Iran:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/world/middleeast/coronavirus-iran.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...ers-its-not-as-if-we-can-hide-the-cemeteries/
 
JohnC6 said:
China reports drop in cases..https://www.wsj.com/articles/drop-i...-hope-that-its-outbreak-is-ebbing-11582636045

However, this is bad news re. Iran.. Appalling government. Well educated young people though and maybe one day they will gain enough traction and oust the mullahs.

I heard this Iranian lady on the radio today. She's applied for assylum here but it will take 6 months. Just added for interest not to go off-piste with further coments. Not much can be said anyway,it speaks for itself. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-wont-return-home-pictures-without-headscarf/

Re the virus in Iran:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/world/middleeast/coronavirus-iran.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/news...ers-its-not-as-if-we-can-hide-the-cemeteries/
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They have a very very strange law, that`s all I will say about them lot.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I knew someone will say that (hotel collapsed), but that doesn’t remove the fact that the hospital is there now, it was built for this crisis so since their infection rate today is lower than that of the UK. They could blow up the hospital if they want and it won’t matter, fall down or not, it served it’s purpose.
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I wasn't referring to the collapsed hotel, I was referring to cars that Europe won't allow to be imported, because they are unsafe, poor quality car components not just as aftermarket replacement items, but also oem parts. Then there is the dangerous work practices .
 
Raymond Lin said:
I never said you should isolate in China, my point was that China’s isolation worked and they have the resources in man power and equipment.
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In the UK, use of such manpower is commonly known as cannon fodder.
 
nilagin said:
In the UK, use of such manpower is commonly known as cannon fodder.
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In the case of the cars they would be Crash Test Dummies, maybe the buildings as well
Too many of these diseases originate in China, something seriously wrong for it to keep happening
 
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Naming no names, a few people on this thread are thinking like Americans when Bernie Sanders said Castro had improved Cuba‘s education system (which is true). Raymond didn’t say China was wonderful but that they had the system and resources to deal with this particular problem, which is true. Pretty brutal and couldn‘t be done here, but effective.

Somewhat related, Trump has been as devious/secretive as the Chinese (over denials) and as cruel and inefficient as the Japanese (over cruise ships). Tends to show people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones :).
 
nilagin said:
In the UK, use of such manpower is commonly known as cannon fodder.
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Or maybe the Chinese people are just braver than we are these days :(. Remember those Soviet scientists and technicians who sacrificed themselves going into Chernobyl to try to avert the disaster?
 
nilagin said:
I wasn't referring to the collapsed hotel, I was referring to cars that Europe won't allow to be imported, because they are unsafe, poor quality car components not just as aftermarket replacement items, but also oem parts. Then there is the dangerous work practices .
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and what has that got anything to do with treating a virus again?
 
sphexx said:
Or maybe the Chinese people are just braver than we are these days :(. Remember those Soviet scientists and technicians who sacrificed themselves going into Chernobyl to try to avert the disaster?
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They probably have something in common, no choice in the matter.
Both regimes not exactly known for democracy
 
tijuana taxi said:
Don't treat the Tibetans very nicely either.
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Off topic, but it’s interesting to speculate that if the Tibetans and the Afghans had ‘allowed’ themselves to be colonised they might not be in the mess they are in today :). Tibetans ended up colonised by China anyway :(.
 
sphexx said:
Naming no names, a few people on this thread are thinking like Americans when Bernie Sanders said Castro had improved Cuba‘s education system (which is true). Raymond didn’t say China was wonderful but that they had the system and resources to deal with this particular problem, which is true. Pretty brutal and couldn‘t be done here, but effective.

Somewhat related, Trump has been as devious/secretive as the Chinese (over denials) and as cruel and inefficient as the Japanese (over cruise ships). Tends to show people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones :).
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some people cannot separate one from another. Do I need to point out China’s human rights records first, their treatment of Muslims on the west of the country, their oppression of free speech, write a thesis to criticise all the fabric of their country, people, policies first before I can move on to the virus?

Or are people so weak are debate they have to say “yeah, but that hospital is pre-fab”.

Honestly, if that is the only rebuttal, it’s not even worth my time. It’s about the same as a 5 year old got caught with his hand in the cookie jar then they say “But mum, kevin also stole a cookie from the jar too!”
 
tijuana taxi said:
They probably have something in common, no choice in the matter.
Both regimes not exactly known for democracy
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I think you need to widen your world view. This country (U.K.) though “known for democracy” is not and never has been a democracy, it’s a Monarchy, but what distinguishes us from many other places, up to now anyway, is that we have the rule of law.
 
sphexx said:
I think you need to widen your world view. This country (U.K.) though “known for democracy” is not and never has been a democracy, it’s a Monarchy, but what distinguishes us from many other places, up to now anyway, is that we have the rule of law.
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I think my understanding is comprehensive enough to know people in the UK have a bit more freedom than those in China or the old USSR
 
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