The virus. PPE. Part 1

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sphexx said:
I don’t think you’re right about all experts contradicting etc.
I don’t think the masks are useless, maybe limited utility but every little help. I think if you wear any mask it may catch droplets and stop you passing the disease on and it will stop you touching your mouth and maybe just raise your awareness of what you should be doing.
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I was maybe taking things a bit far... but on so many subjects the message given one day seems to be contradicted or even completely overthrown at some other point to the point that people must wonder what's going on. Yes, knowledge and positions change over time and experts are only human but as I said... time after time...

On the mask side, logic maybe tells us that they must help at least a little surely(?)... but there are people saying they're useless or as near as and not just random nurses and others we may personally know, experts in the media have said it too.

PS.

Just something on masks.

Years ago I bought in some high spec masks for a manufacturing company that were actually over spec for the simple reason that they were more comfortable for the operators to use and I got a good deal on them and got them at the same price as the lower spec ones. Come inspection time the inspectors spotted that the ppe in use was way over spec for the substances and processes they could see in use. I must therefore be hiding something.

The relevance to the corona virus is that the measures we take could come under scrutiny and well meaning measures could be questioned and maybe even lead to panic or adverse reaction from the public or other countries. I suppose what measures to take is always going to be a balancing act.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Apparently there's no fever - I suspect they just have a cold. :rolleyes:

But we'll wait & see. Trouble is that there's nothing about this infection that makes it stand out as obviously different, at least early on.
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jonbeeza said:
I have been sneezing all morning and my throat is a little dry, I am not panicking or anything, as I have been rummaging around a dusty cupboard. :)
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sphexx said:
I was in hospital Saturday - Tuesday and the chap in the next bed was coughing his head of, this am I’ve been coughing too but probably it’ll pass (or I shall :() :).
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Coronavirus-Symptoms-%E2%80%93-WHO-joint-mission-800x429.png


All things we get with other diseases, of course, but like Toni says most COVID-19 patients have fever.
 
Someone on here reminds of those annoying t***s that used to loiter around bars, moving from group to group nursing a pint trying to chip in on conversations with what they thought were clever comments but most others saw as just an irritation.

They often felt as though they were superior to others, but unfortunately, had so little self awareness or empathy, they just couldn't understand why they were never invited to sit down and were doomed to forever drift around hoping for somebody to tell them how clever they were and hang on their every word.

It seems they then drifted onto photography forums....
 
woof woof said:
I was also thinking about the numbers who die from flu every year and if we view all human life as precious and every life lost a tragedy maybe we should react as positively as we seem to be reacting to corona to the flu epidemics we see so often.
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Although a flu vaccine is available People can't be forced to take it, so many don't.
If uptake was greater there would be fewer deaths.
 
sphexx said:
I don’t think you’re right about all experts contradicting etc.
I don’t think the masks are useless, maybe limited utility but every little help. I think if you wear any mask it may catch droplets and stop you passing the disease on and it will stop you touching your mouth and maybe just raise your awareness of what you should be doing.
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You are correct about the masks. They appear to be the standard masks worn by doctors and nurses etc. and are intended to stop droplets being passed from medics mouths/noses to patients.
They are not specifically designed to stop droplets being ingested by wearers. The masks will stop some droplets being ingested and that could mean the difference between not being infected and infected.
It is always necessary to be careful about not writing off any protective measure just because it is not 100% effective. Some protection is always better than no protection (the umbrella that keeps the carrier totally dry has still to be invented).
 
Retune said:
Coronavirus-Symptoms-%E2%80%93-WHO-joint-mission-800x429.png


All things we get with other diseases, of course, but like Toni says most COVID-19 patients have fever.
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Problem is except the fever :) I have all those symptoms all the time :( :) :)
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Although a flu vaccine is available People can't be forced to take it, so many don't.
If uptake was greater there would be fewer deaths.
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That's true. I get an injection every year as I'm a carer but may soon qualify on age :( :) but Mrs WW wont have one.

Maybe the MMR panic has hurt the larger vaccine issue.
 
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arclight said:
You are correct about the masks. They appear to be the standard masks worn by doctors and nurses etc. and are intended to stop droplets being passed from medics mouths/noses to patients.
They are not specifically designed to stop droplets being ingested by wearers. The masks will stop some droplets being ingested and that could mean the difference between not being infected and infected.
It is always necessary to be careful about not writing off any protective measure just because it is not 100% effective. Some protection is always better than no protection (the umbrella that keeps the carrier totally dry has still to be invented).
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I’ve always found umbrellas keep you dry because it doesn’t rain when you take them but make you very wet if you leave them behind.:)
 
On the Beeb...

"Coronavirus: The fake health advice you should ignore"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51735367

Here it says "Airborne viruses enter the body via the respiratory tract when you breathe in." I'm sure I've heard multiple times that the virus can enter though eyes and that this is one reason why some masks don't offer a more complete protection.

Anyway.

Good luck to you all and your loved ones. Whilst any illness or worse death is a tragedy lets hope this doesn't turn into an even more significant health issue.
 
woof woof said:
I'm sure I've heard multiple times that the virus can enter though eyes and that this is one reason why some masks don't offer a more complete protection.
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According to my 50 years out of date "A-level" biology: a virus is basically a packet of RNA in a wrapper of protein molecules. Your immune system recognises most wrappers and reacts to destroy them. Your immune system also has a generalised response to proteins that are not expected as part of your body's normal operation and can therefor learn to attack new viruses. Different access points to your body have differing amounts of the chemistry that triggers these responses, so different entry points have different levels of response.

Of course, I imagine that knowledge of this stuff has moved on since I took my A-level and (to everyone's amazement) achieved the top grade. :naughty:
 
woof woof said:
That's true. I get an injection every year as I'm a carer but may soon qualify on age :( :) but Mrs WW wont have one.

Maybe the MMR panic has hurt the larger vaccine issue.
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Its slightly more complex than that, the MMR scare is more a factor in childhood vaccines etc, the yearly flu vaccine changes every year and is based on a best guess of what strain may be doing the rounds that particular year which may contribute to the high deaths still seen but also peoples lack of confidence in it.
 
woof woof said:
On the Beeb...

"Coronavirus: The fake health advice you should ignore"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51735367

Here it says "Airborne viruses enter the body via the respiratory tract when you breathe in." I'm sure I've heard multiple times that the virus can enter though eyes and that this is one reason why some masks don't offer a more complete protection.
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It's been reported by one guy in china that he's pretty sure he got it due to no eye protection and of course everyone now thinks this is true. Its a respiratory virus and so mouth and nose are the real routes, eyes have not been completely ruled out as its a "wet" area but the scientific community think its unlikely.
 
woof woof said:
That's true. I get an injection every year as I'm a carer but may soon qualify on age :( :) but Mrs WW wont have one.

Maybe the MMR panic has hurt the larger vaccine issue.
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I think you’ll find the anti-vaxxers are against all vaccines and also I remember reading somewhere recently that measles when you catch it, as more people are doing, has the effect of knocking out the immunity conferred by previous vaccines against other diseases. Nor sure if this has been validated. Some people are against just the ’multi’ aspect of MMR so may be OK with other childhood vaccines.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
And next week they will still average around 3600 per day, whereas coronavirus deaths average will likely have risen sharply, and keep rising.
See the difference?
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Yes the difference is the road deaths will increase and continue for years and years, as they have done for years and years.
 
simon ess said:
I'm baffled.

Just done my big weekly shop at Morrisons.

Everyone was behaving perfectly normally. No panic buying, no masks, no empty shelves, people smiling and chatting as normal.

Didn't they get the memo?
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Probably because you are reporting the truth rather than the hidden agendas others have on here using fake news to criticise the Government.
 
DK602 said:
Probably because you are reporting the truth rather than the hidden agendas others have on here using fake news to criticise the Government.
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Well I've been to sainsbury's and no hand sanitizer to be seen. The shelves were empty.....on that section.
Plenty of bog roll though.
Some of the supermarkets are limiting purchases of pasta and hand sanitizer and that can be seen online, so it's not fake.
It may not be folks brawling in the aisles, but it would appear some are stalking up
 
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DK602 said:
Probably because you are reporting the truth rather than the hidden agendas others have on here using fake news to criticise the Government.
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(My bold) Really? Let’s hope they don’t run out of tin foil for you :)
 
DK602 said:
Probably because you are reporting the truth rather than the hidden agendas others have on here using fake news to criticise the Government.
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Just to be clear, I am in no way associated with, or supportive of, this f***witted nonsense.

Thank you.
 
Donnie said:
the road death analogy is a red herring and those clinging to it and similar ones are simply unable to see it.
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Studio488commercial said:
Not clinging to anything, facts are facts.
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Facts in isolation are indeed facts. Using facts to make some sort of correalation between something like road deaths and coronavirus is idiotic.
 
I'll let you all:

:runaway::runaway::runaway::runaway::runaway::runaway:

about the virus. (Commonly known as a storm in a teacup)
 
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arclight said:
Northern Italy is now under a people movement lockdown due to the unfettered infection rate. An overdue action IMO.
Despite that two flights from Milan have landed at Heathrow this morning and the passengers were allowed through with out being checked. More flights are due into LHR & Gatwick this afternoon and other UK cities. That makes no sense.
China and Iran have prohibited flights from Italy.
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This lunchtime my son & his girlfriend have just flown into Edinburgh from Venice, without being checked too.
 
broc said:
This lunchtime my son & his girlfriend have just flown into Edinburgh from Venice, without being checked too.
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What would be the point in checking them?
The virus is already here and spreading quickly.
I read that one of the expert advisers stated that even if they banned flights it would only slow the virus by a few days.
 
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Just watching on tv and some people are leaving Hospital after being in quarantine, in the North West. They said they had been looked after very well, and spoke very highly of the Hospital and staff. Good old fashioned Northern Hospitality. :)
 
broc said:
This lunchtime my son & his girlfriend have just flown into Edinburgh from Venice, without being checked too.
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Considering it can take 14 days or more to become symptomatic it would be a complete waste of time and resources to check them - don't forget Italy did all this and more yet became the epicentre of the virus in Europe.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
What would be the point in checking them?
The virus is already here and spreading quickly.
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The Italians checked them when they arrived in Venice a week ago, they were half-expecting to be checked upon arrival the UK. The official UK position is one of 'containment' which is supposed to mean they are tracking the spread......
 
DK602 said:
Considering it can take 14 days or more to become symptomatic it would be a complete waste of time and resources to check them.
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Umm actually 2-14days is the incubation period, there is no "or more". As for it being a waste of time and resources taking a temperature may be, but Id wonder if there's any other type of screening or advice for those arriving at airports from infected areas.
 
broc said:
The Italians checked them when they arrived in Venice a week ago, they were half-expecting to be checked upon arrival the UK. The official UK position is one of 'containment' which is supposed to mean they are tracking the spread......
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Checked? Or tested? Have they shown any symptoms?
Were they given any advice on landing in the UK?
Or asked anything specific relating to whether or not they felt unwell etc?
 
I've just spent two days in bed the first day Thursday I came home at 1.45 went straight to bed the next time I woke up was 11.30 am the following day and that was only because Mrs Badger wondered if I was dead ( I have a really bad sleep pattern and normally wake at least once an hour) I had difficulty moving and could actually smell that I was a dead animal, I was soaked in sweat the bed was wet and I was totally disorientated with a massive head ache that was that bad I couldn't see straight. I had a temp of a 102 but was shaking and feeling frozen. I can honestly say it was the worst illness I have ever come across. I caught it from a work colleague and then two other people I was working with went down with it the next day and the day after that their entire family where ill. None of these people were old ,I'm 51 and the other lads are in there 20's. Now my Mrs has it and Flu has nearly killed her a few times ! Mrs Badger insisted I check out The NHS 111 service which only asked if I had been in another country or was very closely connected with someone who had. Now I had no clue if the person I had it from had any connection with people who had been out the country but I know his family love their foreign holidays. I was thrown out of the Corvid19 section and then was asked to tell them my symptoms it told me to phone 999 immediately ( I didn't bother as I felt a little better than I had previously been. It really does make me wonder if I had had it, The speed in which the illness spread through us makes you realize how it could wipe out a good section of the population. I still feel like absolute crap now but at it's height I was out of it so cannot even remember falling over and taking the sauce pans and bin with me or getting in the bath with a tee shirt and my boxers on ! I could even blame it on the amount of ale I'd had !
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Checked? Or tested? Have they shown any symptoms?
Were they given any advice on landing in the UK?
Or asked anything specific relating to whether or not they felt unwell etc?
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Temperature check in Italy on arrival, no test. Upon arrival back the UK, nothing, no advice, information or temperature check. No symptoms at all.
 
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I heard an interview on the radio of a number of people who had just flown in from Italy all of them said there had been no testing or questions what so ever .
 
BADGER.BRAD said:
I've just spent two days in bed the first day Thursday I came home at 1.45 went straight to bed the next time I woke up was 11.30 am the following day and that was only because Mrs Badger wondered if I was dead ( I have a really bad sleep pattern and normally wake at least once an hour) I had difficulty moving and could actually smell that I was a dead animal, I was soaked in sweat the bed was wet and I was totally disorientated with a massive head ache that was that bad I couldn't see straight. I had a temp of a 102 but was shaking and feeling frozen. I can honestly say it was the worst illness I have ever come across. I caught it from a work colleague and then two other people I was working with went down with it the next day and the day after that their entire family where ill. None of these people were old ,I'm 51 and the other lads are in there 20's. Now my Mrs has it and Flu has nearly killed her a few times ! Mrs Badger insisted I check out The NHS 111 service which only asked if I had been in another country or was very closely connected with someone who had. Now I had no clue if the person I had it from had any connection with people who had been out the country but I know his family love their foreign holidays. I was thrown out of the Corvid19 section and then was asked to tell them my symptoms it told me to phone 999 immediately ( I didn't bother as I felt a little better than I had previously been. It really does make me wonder if I had had it, The speed in which the illness spread through us makes you realize how it could wipe out a good section of the population. I still feel like absolute crap now but at it's height I was out of it so cannot even remember falling over and taking the sauce pans and bin with me or getting in the bath with a tee shirt and my boxers on ! I could even blame it on the amount of ale I'd had !
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Sorry to hear that! You don’t say if you took any paracetamol to get your temperature down?
 
broc said:
Temperature check in Italy on arrival, no test. Upon arrival back the UK, nothing, no advice, information or temperature check. No symptoms at all.
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BADGER.BRAD said:
I heard an interview on the radio of a number of people who had just flown in from Italy all of them said there had been no testing or questions what so ever .
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This is from the Governments Coronavirus action plan....

As part of the port health measures, direct flights arriving into the UK from
countries within the UK's CMOs' case definition are required to provide a
declaration (General Aircraft Declaration) to airport authorities stating that all their
passengers are well, 60 minutes prior to landing. Similarly, The Maritime Health
Declaration Form is required for all vessels arriving from any foreign port. For
Scotland parallel measures are in place.

Can't find which countries it refers to, but I'd have expected Italy to be one of them....
 
14 days is a rule of thumb and a guide, rather than an absolute time limit, so the incubation period *could* be longer.

As with all these measures, there is an attempt to balance between prevention and cost/penalty. The disease could be prevented from spreading by simply ordering the entire population to remain at home for 5 weeks, but in that time the nation would collapse. 14 days is a good general estimate for many diseases.
 
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