The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Retune said:
And isn't it terrible that we accept road casualties as normal? But SARS-CoV-2 is just getting started. It hasn't yet had the chance to infect most of the 7.8 billion people in the world and, unless we can stop it, there's no particular reason why it won't. This has happened before with 4 other coronaviruses that cause common cold symptoms. But this time we are dealing with a virus that causes significant numbers of fatalities. If left unchecked, it's not unreasonable to suppose that the virus will eventually kill millions, even if the case fatality rate turns about to be ~1% (it's higher in some regions). Here's what's been happening to the number of cases recorded outside China:

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Some people just love their 'doom & gloom'!

How do you manage to get up in the morning and face life?

Jesus.
 
DK602 said:
Some people just love their 'doom & gloom'!

How do you manage to get up in the morning and face life?
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That's quite a reasonable review of the present situation and some potential outcomes. Much more sensible to think ahead and be ready than than wake up one morning and wonder where all the bodies came from. Have a happy dance, if that helps. :banana:
 
ancient_mariner said:
That's quite a reasonable review of the present situation and some potential outcomes. Much more sensible to think ahead and be ready than than wake up one morning and wonder where all the bodies came from. Have a happy dance, if that helps. :banana:
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The surest fact is we are going to die - do you spend your life preparing for it and worrying about it?
 
DK602 said:
The surest fact is we are going to die - do you spend your life preparing for it and worrying about it?
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No
Doesn't mean we can't talk about it though, particularly in the event of it potentially being premature for some...
No one forces you to read these threads.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
No
Doesn't mean we can't talk about it though, particularly in the event of it potentially being premature for some...
No one forces you to read these threads.
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......and no one forces you to read my replies ;-)

We moan about the newspapers causing mass hysteria but then posts here cause just as much doom.

When planning going out in your car do you avoid roads that have high casualty rates?

The figure from road deaths does not include the massively higher figure of people who suffer life changing injuries - does the virus cause this?

Some people need to get a grip on reality - yes it's not a good thing but the panic some people are having is ridiculous.

God help them if they ever faced 'the draft'.
 
As said previously - we have no immunity to it so the chances are you will catch it; why worry about it.
 
DK602 said:
The surest fact is we are going to die - do you spend your life preparing for it and worrying about it?
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I haven’t read any doom mongering here, or anywhere really, I guess it must be just you or your immediate contacts. I wonder Doug, do you take any sensible precautions, wear a seat belt or drive on the correct side of the road for instance?
 
sphexx said:
I haven’t read any doom mongering here, or anywhere really, I guess it must be just you or your immediate contacts. I wonder Doug, do you take any sensible precautions, wear a seat belt or drive on the correct side of the road for instance?
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I do - it's the law and would lower the risk of me killing myself!

Washing your hands will not stop you catching the virus - all it will do is delay the spread of it.
 
What a shame that all of the experts that know how to deal with this have hidden their expertise for all this time.
 
DK602 said:
I
Washing your hands will not stop you catching the virus - all it will do is delay the spread of it.
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Is that true? If so, how do you know that?
 
rick448 said:
What a shame that all of the experts that know how to deal with this have hidden their expertise for all this time.
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They haven't - they say the same - the most important thing to do is slow down the spread of the virus but they can't protect you from actually catching it; they just don't want the NHS being overwhelmed.
 
DK602 said:
They haven't - they say the same - the most important thing to do is slow down the spread of the virus but they can't protect you from actually catching it; they just don't want the NHS being overwhelmed.
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I really don't want o get into a prolonged discussion about this as I have previously kept out of this thread, but out of interest, who is"they"
 
I think I may know my first case: someone who works in a shop in Oxford dealing with lots of students, so quite possibly exposed to more international contacts than many. Hopefully they will get tested in the next couple of days.
 
rick448 said:
I really don't want o get into a prolonged discussion about this as I have previously kept out of this thread, but out of interest, who is"they"
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What the experts say is that washing your hands will slow down the spread of the virus - it really is good advice but in reality it's impossible to be so meticulous that you wash your hands after every slight contact.

If we have no immunity to a disease then the chances are the majority will contract it; we couldn't cope if it spread very quickly but if people take good precautions then it will slow down the spread considerably but not stop it.
 
Retune said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLEo7H9tqSM
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Any reason that you and others aren't 'taking objection' with this post saying exactly what I am:

MatBin said:
Given that there is no vaccine for this virus and won't be for 12 months the likelihood is the whole population will catch it at some point, or 94% will according to expert figures, presumably 6% wont catch it, children? So as a Govt how do you handle that, let everyone catch it in one hit or small numbers you can handle, lock down and isolation en mass will slow the spread but eventually the 94% are going to get it, if not now then in say 6 months time as there is no vaccine or in built immunity in humans. We live in a very crowded environment in the UK and I don't think it's possible to prevent anyone from getting infected eventually, we have people coming in from all over the world from infected areas and our own people now infected that have not been abroad, it's here and it will infect all of us eventually. All we can do is care for those infected and keep the death rate as low as possible by stretching the infection period for as long as possible so as not to overwhelm the NHS etc.
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Well, I work in a hospital and today was my first day back in for a while, (been using up rest of leave.) Out of curiosity I went and stood in the entrance to the ward block - 10 wards inc. cancer patients and end of life patients. I watched 7 families walk in and only one family used the gel dispensers on the wall. The mum, in fairness to her, called her two kids back and showed them how to gel their hands. The other families didn’t even look at the dispensers. I guess the message isn’t getting through, (unless they’ve got a car full of Carex to travel to the hospital in.) To slow the spread, hopefully towards summer, is the very best we can hope for.
 
DK602 said:
Any reason that you and others aren't 'taking objection' with this post saying exactly what I am:
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That's not what they object to, it's the fact that no ones allowed to discuss the situation without you jumping in accusing them of spouting doom and gloom, and making ridiculous statements about which roads they drive on etc etc
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
That's not what they object to, it's the fact that no ones allowed to discuss the situation without you jumping in accusing them of spouting doom and gloom, and making ridiculous statements about which roads they drive on etc etc
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So is trying to put something into perspective wrong?


Do we have a thread every year about the spread of flu around the world?

I didn't bring up the topic on road deaths - but it is a good illustrator that you stand far greater chance of dying or becoming seriously ill using your car to attend a sporting occasion than from this virus.
 
DK602 said:
So is trying to put something into perspective wrong?
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No, but no one actually knows exactly where this coronavirus is going to end up.
I'm not worried about it, and know that if I catch it, which is looking likely, that I'm unlikely to die.
I'm not going to panic buy either.
However, it's a big topic at the moment, I understand that many will worry about it, many will panic buy etc
That's up to them. I'm certainly not going to lecture them about their behaviour under the pretence of trying to put some "perspective" into it all.
 
DK602 said:
I didn't bring up the topic on road deaths - but it is a good illustrator that you stand far greater chance of dying or becoming seriously ill using your car to attend a sporting occasion than from this virus.
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In the time that 3570 have died from coronavirus how many died or became seriously ill driving to a sporting occasion?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
In the time that 3570 have died from coronavirus how many died or became seriously ill driving to a sporting occasion?
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Likewise - how many have died from coronavirus that attended big sporting occasions?

Travel in itself is more dangerous than the virus.
 
DK602 said:
They haven't - they say the same - the most important thing to do is slow down the spread of the virus but they can't protect you from actually catching it; they just don't want the NHS being overwhelmed.
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If you wash your hands it can stop you catching it. How do you think hand washing can slow the spread otherwise. It is not certain to stop you catching it because you may, for example, catch it from airborne droplets from a nearby person.
Regarding your answer to my question about seat belts — the only reason you use one is because it’s the law? Presumably then you’d be OK if there was a hand washing law and we’d hear no more from you? Thats plain daft Doug.
 
DK602 said:
Likewise - how many have died from coronavirus that attended big sporting occasions?

Travel in itself is more dangerous than the virus.
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Apples and oranges. When you ’travel’ you may be at risk of death by accident but you don’t increase the likelihood of others dying in ‘domino’ fashion, only possibly the other poor b****r you’ve hit. There’s no multiplication.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I think I may know my first case: someone who works in a shop in Oxford dealing with lots of students, so quite possibly exposed to more international contacts than many. Hopefully they will get tested in the next couple of days.
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Sorry to hear that :(
 
Retune said:
And isn't it terrible that we accept road casualties as normal? But SARS-CoV-2 is just getting started. It hasn't yet had the chance to infect most of the 7.8 billion people in the world and, unless we can stop it, there's no particular reason why it won't. This has happened before with 4 other coronaviruses that cause common cold symptoms. But this time we are dealing with a virus that causes significant numbers of fatalities. If left unchecked, it's not unreasonable to suppose that the virus will eventually kill millions, even if the case fatality rate turns about to be ~1% (it's higher in some regions). Here's what's been happening to the number of cases recorded outside China:

View attachment 271045
Click to expand...

I read an article by a western doctor who went to China and said that the mortality rate (of the confirmed infected, not counting those who barely register a cough) will be higher outside China than that currently because in China, surprisingly enough for some people, that they actually know how to tackle this from their past experience with SARS. In any average hospital they have a dozen machines that can take the blood from the patient, oxygenate it and pump it back in. They do this when the patient lungs cannot provide enough oxygen.

now I don’t know about you, we in the UK don’t even have enough ICU beds, where are we going to get all those machines into every hospital? China was able to send in 30,000 medical staff into Hubei to fight this, where are we going to find 300 extra doctors never mind 30,000! (Bearing in mind GB is around the same population as Hubei).

In short, he said that when this spreads all over the world, the mortality rate of 1% within China will not translate, for the rest of the world it will be higher simply because they lack the resources to tackle this.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I read an article by a western doctor who went to China and said that the mortality rate (of the confirmed infected, not counting those who barely register a cough) will be higher outside China than that currently because in China, surprisingly enough for some people, that they actually know how to tackle this from their past experience with SARS. In any average hospital they have a dozen machines that can take the blood from the patient, oxygenate it and pump it back in. They do this when the patient lungs cannot provide enough oxygen.

now I don’t know about you, we in the UK don’t even have enough ICU beds, where are we going to get all those machines into every hospital? China was able to send in 30,000 medical staff into Hubei to fight this, where are we going to find 300 extra doctors never mind 30,000! (Bearing in mind GB is around the same population as Hubei).

In short, he said that when this spreads all over the world, the mortality rate of 1% within China will not translate, for the rest of the world it will be higher simply because they lack the resources to tackle this.
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We are well behind even other European countries in number of ICU beds and the one we do have are mostly in use for ‘normally’ sick patients.
Your example of numbers of staff available is much the same as that made to Trump &Co when they suggest moving production of electronics back to the US. — that China can find 100, 000 (making numbers up :)) trained people to put into a new factory but US just doesn’t have those numbers of trained people available, nor do we.
 
sphexx said:
If you wash your hands it can stop you catching it. How do you think hand washing can slow the spread otherwise. It is not certain to stop you catching it because you may, for example, catch it from airborne droplets from a nearby person.
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Great contradiction in one sentence!

I think you have agreed with what I said - washing your hands will only slow the spread of it.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I read an article by a western doctor who went to China and said that the mortality rate (of the confirmed infected, not counting those who barely register a cough) will be higher outside China than that currently because in China, surprisingly enough for some people, that they actually know how to tackle this from their past experience with SARS. In any average hospital they have a dozen machines that can take the blood from the patient, oxygenate it and pump it back in. They do this when the patient lungs cannot provide enough oxygen.

now I don’t know about you, we in the UK don’t even have enough ICU beds, where are we going to get all those machines into every hospital? China was able to send in 30,000 medical staff into Hubei to fight this, where are we going to find 300 extra doctors never mind 30,000! (Bearing in mind GB is around the same population as Hubei).

In short, he said that when this spreads all over the world, the mortality rate of 1% within China will not translate, for the rest of the world it will be higher simply because they lack the resources to tackle this.
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If the Chinese regime is so good then go!

I personally don't want to see our Police kicking s*** out of people who dare to go outdoors without a face mask on.
 
Oh well as of this morning virtually the whole of northern Italy under quarantine 16 million people , several major cities . meanwhile advise in the u.k is wash your hands ,buy toilet rolls and get updates from T.P as that’s where the experts post advice . Just like ww2 everyone saw it coming but we were blinded by peace in our time .

Afraid we won’t wake up to how serious it really is till someone famous dies from it , probably won’t be bill wyman though as he’s immortal .

boris will be hoping corbyn gets it first , but carry on wash your hands , and to those that have abandoned buying newspapers and get the news on there I.pads and phones try wiping your arse with them when the toilet rolls run out

:lock::lock::lock::lock:
 
DK602 said:
Great contradiction in one sentence!

I think you have agreed with what I said - washing your hands will only slow the spread of it.
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I despair. English is clearly not your strong point, though you seem to be a native speaker so maybe I should say “logic” rather than English.Your inability to understand fairly simple statements makes it nearly impossible to have discourse with you. I have persevered so far because I think it helps everyone if we try to understand why you think the way you do but I think I have failed in that :(.
 
DK602 said:
If the Chinese regime is so good then go!
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Really?
He didn't say the regime was good.
He said they had enough machines and medical staff to deal with the virus.
Can't you tell the difference?
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Really?
He didn't say the regime was good.
He said they had enough machines and medical staff to deal with the virus.
Can't you tell the difference?
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Doug @DK602 is an interesting study. He obviously can’t tell the difference I think, unless he’s being exceptionally devious and just winding me/us up :(. I feel we should try to understand him because I guess he’s not the only one who thinks like that, but it’s hard work :(.
 
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