The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

nandbytes said:
.., Historically 3rd party lens manufacturers had to work out for themselves how a mount worked..
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I've used A-Mount since the A200, and lens compatibility was always something that was an issue with Sigma, but NOT with Tamron or Tokina (I'm not sure when Sony acquired it's stake in Tamron, which is ~11%).

Note that Sigma, Tamron and Tokina all made lenses for A-Mount BEFORE Sony acquired A-Mount - IE with it was Minolta

I think it's more probably a case that Sigma CHOSE to reverse engineer the lens protocols, while Tamron and Tokina probably CHOSE to enter a licensing deal (with Minolta, which presumably transferred to Sony when Sony purchased the Minolta IP).
 
Faldrax said:
I've used A-Mount since the A200, and lens compatibility was always something that was an issue with Sigma, but NOT with Tamron or Tokina (I'm not sure when Sony acquired it's stake in Tamron, which is ~11%).

Note that Sigma, Tamron and Tokina all made lenses for A-Mount BEFORE Sony acquired A-Mount - IE with it was Minolta

I think it's more probably a case that Sigma CHOSE to reverse engineer the lens protocols, while Tamron and Tokina probably CHOSE to enter a licensing deal (with Minolta, which presumably transferred to Sony when Sony purchased the Minolta IP).
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I didn't mean 'a-mount', I mean they have to workout how any mount works in general. Various manufacturer probably disclose at various levels but generally not the full IP or they don't have business model whereby one can easily get hold of their mount IP. Sony e-mount is different in that they are willing to disclose the full IP if all their conditions are met i.e. they have a business model around it.
 
nandbytes said:
I didn't mean 'a-mount', I mean they have to workout how any mount works in general. Various manufacturer probably disclose at various levels but generally not the full IP or they don't have business model whereby one can easily get hold of their mount IP. Sony e-mount is different in that they are willing to disclose the full IP if all their conditions are met i.e. they have a business model around it.
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What I was trying to point out was that they didn't HAVE to WORK OUT how a given manufacturers mount protocol worked - manufacturers were willing to enter into licensing deals to ensure compatibility.
Some 3rd party lens manufacturers chose the licence method, some chose reverse engineering - but it was a business decision which option they followed (I'm assuming here that Canon, Nikon, Minolta, etc were willing to offer broadly similar terms to different 3rd party manufacturers, which may not have been the case).

What appears to have changed with Sony E-Mount is they have made the details of the mount and protocol more open - though as the details you posted show, they are not 'open' to everyone...
 
Faldrax said:
What I was trying to point out was that they didn't HAVE to WORK OUT how a given manufacturers mount protocol worked - manufacturers were willing to enter into licensing deals to ensure compatibility.
Some 3rd party lens manufacturers chose the licence method, some chose reverse engineering - but it was a business decision which option they followed (I'm assuming here that Canon, Nikon, Minolta, etc were willing to offer broadly similar terms to different 3rd party manufacturers, which may not have been the case).

What appears to have changed with Sony E-Mount is they have made the details of the mount and protocol more open - though as the details you posted show, they are not 'open' to everyone...
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You both appear to be saying the same. Most 3rd party lens manufactures reverse engineer the mount as stated, or go the more costly option of licensing the IP

Here is what was stated:
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201102/11-018E/


Sony Corporation announced today it will disclose the basic specifications of its "E-mount" for interchangeable single lens cameras, without fee, to manufacturers of lenses and mount adaptors, starting April 1st, 2011.
This opens the way for manufacturers of various lenses and mount adaptors to effectively develop products conforming to "E-mount" specifications.
Users of the Sony's "NEX-3", "NEX-5", "NEX-VG10" and other "E-mount" compatible Sony digital imaging products to be launched in the future will now be able to use interchangeable lenses from both Sony and various other manufactures, while they will also be able to attach non-Sony lenses to their Sony digital imaging products via a mount adapter.
Sony believes the growth of digital imaging products employing the "E-mount" will further increase the enjoyment of photography and video shooting among an even wider range of users.

These basic specifications will be disclosed to manufactures of lenses and mount adaptors following a predefined process of approval and the signing a license agreement with Sony.

So its not open to everyone, but licensed with no fee to approved manufactures of lenses and mount adaptors. It is a way of protecting their IP, lowering costs to 3rd party for lens and adaptor development, and ensuring a good user experience with 3rd party lenses. It was done obviously because it was a new lens mount and they wanted 3rd party lenses ASAP to help the mount succeed. It wasn't about creating an open standard like M43 unfortunately, otherwise it would allow Canon, Nikon, Fuji etc to potentially use the lens mount (great for consumers, not for Sony)
 
Meanwhile at the budget end of the market...

I got an old lens today, it's a Nikon pre ai 50mm f2. It's smaller and lighter than the 50mm f1.4 and also the 35mm f2.8 too.

P1020183.jpg

On my A7.

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It's a miserable day and I can't go out anyway so the test shots aren't exciting but maybe give a little idea of performance at f2.

DSC00432.jpg

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It seems sharp enough anywhere you'd want to put a main subject and although the bokeh is a bit oldie lensie at f2 it's more tamed at f2.8. The minimum focus distance isn't anything to write home about for the occasional flower shot when out and about but for general use I think it's a nice lens, nicely made and the image quality is IMO ok. :D

Uncle Ken has a page about it...

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/50mm-f2.htm
 
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woof woof said:
Meanwhile at the budget end of the market...

I got an old lens today, it's a Nikon pre ai 50mm f2. It's smaller and lighter than the 50mm f1.4 and also the 35mm f2.8 too.

View attachment 127999

On my A7.

View attachment 128000

It's a miserable day and I can't go out anyway so the test shots aren't exciting but maybe give a little idea of performance at f2.

View attachment 128001

View attachment 128002

View attachment 128003

It seems sharp enough anywhere you'd want to put a main subject and although the bokeh is a bit oldie lensie at f2 it's more tamed at f2.8. The minimum focus distance isn't anything to write home about for the occasional flower shot when out and about but for general use I think it's a nice lens, nicely made and the image quality is IMO ok. :D

Uncle Ken has a page about it...

https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/50mm-f2.htm
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i am liking the rendering and bokeh :)
 
I decided to try and restrict my buying :D so I'm stopping at the 35mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4 and f2. TBH I maybe should have only got one 50mm but the f2 is considered to be a bit of an icon and it's small and light so I thought I'd add it to what I thought was the more useful f1.4. I did look at the 85mm f1.8 but they're over £200 and it's a focal length I don't use much and I have three already (well, one f1.8 and two f2's.)

I was tempted to get the still in production 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2 AIS's but the pair will cost in the region of £900. Actually I may still get them but truth be told I'll be just as happy with these old jobbies and I do like the build of the earlier ones with their scalloped focus ring. I went for the earlier Nippon Kogaku branded lenses rather than the later Nikkor ones.
 
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woof woof said:
I decided to try and restrict my buying :D so I'm stopping at the 35mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4 and f2. TBH I maybe should have only got one 50mm but the f2 is considered to be a bit of an icon and it's small and light so I thought I'd add it to what I thought was the more useful f1.4. I did look at the 85mm f1.8 but they're over £200 and it's a focal length I don't use much and I have three already (well, one f1.8 and two f2's.)

I was tempted to get the still in production 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2 AIS's but the pair will cost in the region of £900. Actually I may still get them but truth be told I'll be just as happy with these old jobbies and I do like the build of the earlier ones with their scalloped focus ring. I went for the earlier Nippon Kogaku branded lenses rather than the later Nikkor ones.
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So how many 50 and 35 do you have now?
 
twist said:
So how many 50 and 35 do you have now?
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Dunno... Hang on while I have a think...

50's.
Sony 55mm f1.8 AF.
Nikon 50mm f1.4, f2.
Minolta 55mm f1.7 MC, f1.4, f1.2 MD's.
Zuiko 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
FD 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
Sigma 50mm f2.8 macro in MD fit.
So that's 11? Maybe.

35's.
Sony 35mm f2.8 AF.
Voigtlander f1.4.
Nikon f2.8.
FD f2.8.
Rokkor f2.8 MC, f1.8 MD.
Zuiko f2.8.
And that's 7? Or there abouts.

In my defence they are all different in look at their widest apertures and they vary in build and handling :D
 
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woof woof said:
Dunno... Hang on while I have a think...

50's.
Sony 55mm f1.8 AF.
Nikon 50mm f1.4, f2.
Minolta 55mm f1.7 MC, f1.4, f1.2 MD's.
Zuiko 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
FD 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
Sigma 50mm f2.8 macro in MD fit.
So that's 11? Maybe.

35's.
Sony 35mm f2.8 AF.
Voigtlander f1.4.
Nikon f2.8.
FD f2.8.
Rokkor f2.8 MC, f1.8 MD.
Zuiko f2.8.
And that's 7? Or there abouts.

In my defence they are all different in look at their widest apertures and they vary in build and handling :D
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Ha ha that's great. Can't blame you, best focal lengths ever.
 
If nothing else it gives me an excuse to go out and take pictures...

"I'm just off out to test this new lens..."

But I do like looking at the differences between them and deciding which I want to use.
 
woof woof said:
Dunno... Hang on while I have a think...

50's.
Sony 55mm f1.8 AF.
Nikon 50mm f1.4, f2.
Minolta 55mm f1.7 MC, f1.4, f1.2 MD's.
Zuiko 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
FD 50mm f1.8, f1.4.
Sigma 50mm f2.8 macro in MD fit.
So that's 11? Maybe.

35's.
Sony 35mm f2.8 AF.
Voigtlander f1.4.
Nikon f2.8.
FD f2.8.
Rokkor f2.8 MC, f1.8 MD.
Zuiko f2.8.
And that's 7? Or there abouts.

In my defence they are all different in look at their widest apertures and they vary in build and handling :D
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You need a mitakon 50mm f0.95 to complete this :D
 
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I didn't plan to buy a lens today, but….

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/20-off-almost-everything-uk-ebay-using-us-discount-now-live-2950568

Soooo…with max of $100 off, makes the Sony 85/1.8 the perfect candidate. There were a cheaper one from the EU but UK stock…..maximise my chances of getting that £50 cash back rebate!

l5DtCLA.png
 
Still waiting on my sigmas so i've been playing around in menu systems. I've a few small gripes that would be very easily sorted with firmware.

1) the clock has no second counter making it tough to time-sync our 4 bodies. I've figured a way of doing it but it's more convoluted and less accurate than the 'Time Sync' function in Nikon software. If they don't hold their time well this will be a major annoyance.
2) No Lossless compressed. Been argued online to death, but I just don't understand why they don't have this.
3) No way of quickly switching on/off auto ISO. This is super easy on a Nikon. Although I do like that i've managed to do away with having to press-diall-press to select ISO and I now have it assigned to the back wheel with no button pressing required.
4) Touchscreen is welcome coming from a D750 but it's still very limited. In this age of advanced touchscreens you kinda expect more. Much, much more.

One gripe I don't have is with the menu system. I love the depth and customisability of it.I don't get how people find it complicated. Sony have made it that you don't really even need to go into it after your initial setup (for stills work at least).
 
decigallen said:
One gripe I don't have is with the menu system. I love the depth and customisability of it.I don't get how people find it complicated. Sony have made it that you don't really even need to go into it after your initial setup (for stills work at least).
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Yup. It's the same with my Panny cameras, I only go into the menu to format the card or set the clock and if there's anything else I can't think what it is at the moment. I suppose I may be pretty easily pleased but I just don't understand the menu angst we see on line.
 
And on the subject of menu angst... Thom Hogan reviews the A7III...

http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/a...x-camera-reviews/sony-a7-mark-iii-camera.html

Well, what else did I expect? :D

D750 v A7III...

http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-nikon-d750-versus-the.html

:D

"I’m going to tell you a story: give me a D850 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A7Rm3. Just better images, and achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of lenses. Give me a D7500 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A6500. Better images, achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of useful lenses despite...cough..SPAM, buzz. That Nikon can’t tell this story is disappointing. But then, what do you expect when you cut your advertising budget into non-existence?"
 
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woof woof said:
And on the subject of menu angst... Thom Hogan reviews the A7III...

http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/a...x-camera-reviews/sony-a7-mark-iii-camera.html

Well, what else did I expect? :D

D750 v A7III...

http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-nikon-d750-versus-the.html

:D

"I’m going to tell you a story: give me a D850 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A7Rm3. Just better images, and achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of lenses. Give me a D7500 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A6500. Better images, achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of useful lenses despite...cough..SPAM, buzz. That Nikon can’t tell this story is disappointing. But then, what do you expect when you cut your advertising budget into non-existence?"
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I saw this posted in the D750 thread and it made me chuckle.
 
Dunno what I expected from him really, in fact I probably could have had a good stab at writing the piece for him... "Whinge about menu's (check) small buttons, ergonomics, (check) it's no smaller than a DSLR anyway (check) lack of connectivity (check) no back catalogue of lenses and Nikon (and grudgingly Canon) have so many more (check)... anything else? Oh yes... Nikon are soooo much better... (check)... if only they could get their act together (check.)"

I know I'm not exactly typical but I don't care about 99.9% of that, I just want a small form mirrorless camera with vaguely competitive image quality.
 
woof woof said:
Dunno what I expected from him really, in fact I probably could have had a good stab at writing the piece for him... "Whinge about menu's (check) small buttons, ergonomics, (check) it's no smaller than a DSLR anyway (check) lack of connectivity (check) no back catalogue of lenses and Nikon (and grudgingly Canon) have so many more (check)... anything else? Oh yes... Nikon are soooo much better... (check)... if only they could get their act together (check.)"

I know I'm not exactly typical but I don't care about 99.9% of that, I just want a small form mirrorless camera with vaguely competitive image quality.
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Horses for courses
 
woof woof said:
And on the subject of menu angst... Thom Hogan reviews the A7III...

http://www.sansmirror.com/cameras/a...x-camera-reviews/sony-a7-mark-iii-camera.html

Well, what else did I expect? :D

D750 v A7III...

http://dslrbodies.com/newsviews/the-nikon-d750-versus-the.html

:D

"I’m going to tell you a story: give me a D850 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A7Rm3. Just better images, and achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of lenses. Give me a D7500 and I’ll shoot rings around someone shooting with an A6500. Better images, achieved more easily, and with a broader choice of useful lenses despite...cough..SPAM, buzz. That Nikon can’t tell this story is disappointing. But then, what do you expect when you cut your advertising budget into non-existence?"
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He's comparing it to the D750, but has a go at the Sony for bad menus, poor touchscreen and ergonomics. D750 has no touchscreen and LV focusing is awful. The menu system is older than some high school children and just as annoying at times. I love the grip of the D750 but it doesn't have a dedicated AF-ON button - Nikon deliberately hamstrung it in many ways. And as for "handling in rain or snow with gloves on' I've shot in an Icelandic winter with the D750 and it's difficult to use any DSLR when gloved up.

If he's doing a like for like comparison, the A7iii shames my beloved D750 in almost every way. And if he wants a car comparison, the A7iii is an Audi RS6 Avant.

On the plus side, reviews like this will hopefully help me sell my old NIkon gear easily.
 
Maybe I'm just a hardy northerner but I've taken pictures in -20 and below in Kazakhstan mountains in snow and in your typical cold wet winters in northern England, which I've been told feel colder than Kazakh winters because we have a wet cold, apparently, and I think I agree with that... whatever... I hardly ever wear gloves and certainly not when taking pictures. There have been times when I've been a little bit cold :D so I have taken pictures with a gloved left hand and when I'm not actually using the camera I put my hands in my pockets for a quick warm and then get on with it :D
 
Sigma Imaging UK says they are hoping they receive stock of the FE35 this month.

Wonder why its been delayed so much. Annoying.
 
twist said:
Sigma Imaging UK says they are hoping they receive stock of the FE35 this month.

Wonder why its been delayed so much. Annoying.
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Yeah they seemed abit miffed everytime I rang them lol
 
twist said:
Sigma Imaging UK says they are hoping they receive stock of the FE35 this month.

Wonder why its been delayed so much. Annoying.
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Wilkinson cameras says they are still busy completing ART 50 orders, so they have no sight of ART 35 yet from distributors. one of the reasons I gave up on it
 
@nandbytes Have you got the 28-75 yet or still waiting?
I ended up cancelling my pre order a couple of days ago which has freed up £650 which I'm tempted to put towards the A7III
 
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