Nikon D300S or D2Xs - Any owners? What think?

didn't see the part where anybody said that :shrug:
Pat mentiond getting a correct exposure will give a decent image at moderately high ISO but i'm pretty sure nobody on here would be pushing high ISO in good light :thinking:


as an example from a D2Xs i can offer up a pic that is more of a spy shot of a buggy prototype hurriedly taken over somebodys shoulder in a not massively well lit barn at ISO800

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sh0wtime/5659224215/#/photos/sh0wtime/5659224215/lightbox/
 
MindofMel said:
Using the D2Xs at higher ISO's and them liking light? Excuse my ignorance - isn't the entire point of using a higher ISO being that there is failing, low, crappy light? Using a D2XS at a high ISO in good light seems a bit counter-intuitive?
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Totally correct but when you run out of options (i.e. you're at your maximum aperture, at the highest ISO and you're on a slow shutter speed, risking camera shake) then underexposure is often the only option you have to retain some sort of sharpness and useability. But if you're still two stops under then you're going to be bringing out shadow detail that's rife with chroma noise. This is obviously an extreme case, but one I can imagine happening, say, on a wedding shoot when the ambient is minimal and flash isn't an option. A camera like the D3 that can do ISO12,500 (those extra two stops) gets round this because you can get the 'correct' exposure without having to rely on underexposure to retain a safe shutter speed.

Of course, shooting in good light (i.e. outdoors but in overcast conditons) then ISO 1600/3200 is fine but of course, you're always going to try and use lower ISOs to get better definition and lower noise SOOC.

I can't really offer up much in the way of great shots at Hi2 (3200) but here's one at 800, an ISO I use regularly for DPS images in magazines:

Full Image
DSC4834.jpg


Crop (not 100% but a good crop)
DSC4834-2.jpg


Obviously, this is underexposed but I think this is more than useable but also obviously, not a very interesting shot either :D
 
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Well it's certainly been informative, thank you all. I'm off to Grays tomorrow to try and get sorted. I'll report back on how I get on.
 
I can't see Nikon going to the expense of a pro body for the D300(S) replacement (should there be one) because the D300 has sold so well. :shrug: And the vast majority of pro's were waiting for the Nikon full frame, and now they have that, and the pro body to go with it, not many would buy the DX body with the pro body premium price imho. The man in the street would probably not, seeing as the trend is for smaller cameras, like it or not.

Most cameras can give amazing images if perfectly exposed and in good light, but the real world isn't always/often like that. ;) :lol:

Whether you need a camera which is better at higher ISOs depends on what you take pics of. :shrug:

I think D2X bodies are a finite resource, so good luck in getting a quality one if that's what you're after. :thumbs:
 
Very nice visit to Grays today. They couldn't have been more helpful. Complete opposite to a leading Leica dealer I visited a few weeks ago who would have struggled to be less helpful.

I didn't like the feel of the D300s grip at all. The D700 was a bit better but nothing like as comfortable in my hand as a Canon. The D2Sx was much nicer to hold really quite comfortable.

Of course the nice chap thrust a D3 in my hands which rather spoilt my enjoyment of the D2Sx - but at £2.3k it should be good.

I was expecting to like the Nikon buttons and controls more than I did. Some of them seemed rather fiddly.

The focusing was rather disconcerting. On the Canon it is quite a noticeable process but with the Nikon (any of them) it was imperceptible. It just always seemed to be in focus.

Lenses seemed good but confusing - none of them had a red ring! I was particularly taken by an 80-200mm f/2.8 AF IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor (Push/Pull Zoom) which was fantastic lens for the money. Bit long for me on a cropper though. I'd have to do some serious thinking about lenses before making a move to a crop Nikon.

In general everything I touched seemed tougher than the Canon gear I'm used to. I've never been near a Canon pro body though so I can't compare with those.

All-in-all a very interesting insight into Nikon. I think I might be going ruefully back to a 5d2.
 
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Never been to Gray's but once again, another glowing report... might have to drag myself down, if only have a peruse of some exotica :)

On the controls front, it's a marmite thing; some people who use other brands, they pick mine up and instantly you can see their brains freezing up because it seems like a massive departure. Some have got on with it straight away, but that's rare. When I made the move to Nikon (30D/40D > D200) I did it on the strength of reviews and without ever holding the D200.... I opened the box and loved it immediately because it seemed very mechanical and old-fashioned (on a sense), probably down to things like the AF lever on the front, the big, chunky dioptre on the prism casing, or the FPS wheel on the top. That was one thing that drew me to Nikon; the obviousness of some of the controls because they were 'actual' levers and buttons, as opposed to the more software-based control system of the Canon's I used day-in-day out, that I was getting bored with

The AF on the D2x caught me by surprise too. The D200 beeped; the D2x doesn't, which was very disconcerting. I've got used to it though and I listen to the lens now for the moment of lock-on, plus the AF highlight in the viewfinder. For many people who pick my camera up, it's the most obvious difference....

Yep, there's a lot of gold on Nikon lenses and although there are some 'gold-ring' lenses in the Nikon line-up, it's not always clear if you're buying into consumer, pro-sumer or pro. Nikon's website clears this up quite easily in its lens matrix but when you also through in AF-D against AF-S, then it's a bit more of a minefield. Despite the fact not a lot of people like his comments, Ken Rockwell does have some useful material about the Nikon lens range on his site....

That 80-200 is a good lens; I had the later twist version and it was a corker. They did an AF-S version too (faster focussing) that's supposed to be the nuts as an alternative to the 70-200mm VR.

Yep, I feel Nikon SLR gear, on the whole, feels tougher, more bullet-proof, but that said, the L stuff from Canon is mighty tough also.

At least you've had a go and checked it out as a potential move and you never know, you may make the move some day in the future :)
 
looks like another thumbs up for grays .......even tho this time they couldnt change a canon mans ways :-)

seriuosly the level of service you got is not unusual i have always found them helpful whether i am buying trading or just looking / trying stuff out

glad you at least tried the stuff you wanted before dismissing the idea i have not used canon equipment since film days with a t90 (long time ago) and would struggle to know what to do if i was forced to change ....i would hope there was a place i could go like grays where i could look and try the stuff before i bought

good luck with which ever way you go hopefully you will be shooting again soon
 
specialman said:
...it seemed very mechanical and old-fashioned...
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That's exactly what I liked best about the Nikon kit. There was a sense of great engineering about it all that I just don't get from Canon. And the fast focusing of course, I liked that too.

I'm still very tempted but, after sleeping on it, the D700 seems to make more sense than the D2Xs. I do like FF and the big screen on the back. Anybody want to buy a kidney so I can get a D3s?
 
Crop and FF bodies are different tools for different jobs. You either need one or the other - or both. :)
 
awp said:
You either need one or the other - or both. :)
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:D:D:D
I think you've just neatly summed-up 99% of photography questions there. I might have to nick that as a quote :D
 
If I had the money I would get a D700 to compliment my D300S, and that is what I had planned to do before I had to replace a D300. :( I've seen some very nice pics taken with a D700.

From the previous post by paulcamcas I thought a 5D mark II was on the cards. :thinking: I don't think I've heard any bad things said about the 5D mark II, but then I haven't heard any bad things about the D700 either. :lol:

Nice to have the choice. ;)
 
OP: Did you go to the Leica specialist in London - Think it was mentioned that they have a friday session (pre book) for 100ukp to try the m9 plus lenses - refundable against a purchase... At least you could get a mornings playing with it with expert guidance on hand :)

Incase that leica itch is still there :)


I have d300 - really good build quality - you can probably pick up a second hand one for 800ukp? Lenses would depend on what you shoot, 35mm f1.8 nikon, 30mm f1.4 sigma would be good choices. If you like manual and a lot further away shots, try the samyang 85mm 1.4... manual focus tho.

Oh and post up what you finally decide on buying - if its the leica, you could join tobers thread and post up your findings on the expensive yet desirable (at least for me) camera :D
 
ecniv said:
OP: Did you go to the Leica specialist in London - Think it was mentioned that they have a friday session (pre book) for 100ukp to try the m9 plus lenses - refundable against a purchase... At least you could get a mornings playing with it with expert guidance on hand :)
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£100 to try a camera. :eek:

Confirms my belief that Leica owners, and indeed potential Leica owners by the looks of of it, have too much money. :bonk: :lol:
 
But from what I read you get to walk the london streets with it trying it out - rather in a store with a salesperson bugging you...

For the price you invest.. 100ukp aint much.

My opinion tho - pinch of salt and all that :D


Edit
I dont have the money --- can I still calls myself a potential owner tho??!
Tobers threads... Experience so far and the mornings experience
 
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paulcamcas said:
I've sold up my Canon gear to go Leica but I'm finding that to be a minefield fraught with uncertainty and expense. So my mind has turned to Nikon instead. I'm very much a generalist with a penchant for people shots.

I'm tempted to try a D300S with a couple of primes, what has been your experience? Or would a D2Xs be a good choice?
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What Leica were you going for and what put you off?
 
Laudrup said:
What Leica were you going for and what put you off?
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I couldn't begin to afford an M9, so I had an M8 in my sights. What i found was overpriced but safe cameras with leica dealers and overpriced but risky cameras with private sellers. And, yes you can use cheap lenses, Voigtlander for example, but Leica glass is bit costly to say the least. Handling and shooting with an M8 told me that I couldn't manage without an SLR and as I don't have the cash for both, I'm back in SLR-land. It's an itch I may have to scratch one day but probably not now.
 
ecniv said:
Oh and post up what you finally decide on buying - if its the leica, you could join tobers thread and post up your findings on the expensive yet desirable (at least for me) camera :D
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I still rather fancy a D2Xs. £1,000 for the Grays one is a bit too much to risk but I'm following a couple on ebay and if I come across a decent one for sensible money, I might go for it. There's something industrial and utilitarian and indestructible that I found very attractive about the lenses. I had the feeling that if Wall-E had found a Nikon lens, it would be battered but still working just fine.
 
paulcamcas said:
I still rather fancy a D2Xs. £1,000 for the Grays one is a bit too much to risk but I'm following a couple on ebay and if I come across a decent one for sensible money, I might go for it. There's something industrial and utilitarian and indestructible that I found very attractive about the lenses. I had the feeling that if Wall-E had found a Nikon lens, it would be battered but still working just fine.
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Yep, utilitarian is a good description. My lens and bodies have been to hell and back in dust, snow, rain and anything else nature could throw at them and aside from a few scratches and general wear, they just keep functioning. Working predominately outdoors, I have the utmost faith in every piece of Nikon gear I have. That's the reason i went with Nikon, for my own piece of mind - not that other brands don't do equally rugged kit but it just felt right for me and my needs.

MPB has one in for £829 with 21k on the shutter - not much in realworld terms. MPB are reliable - I've bought most of my stuff from them and it's all be superb.

Retailers are more pricey –*I suppose that's the price you pay for dealing with a business, whether online or in person - but I've seen plenty go for £700-£750 on fleabay that have been good, honest buys.

In reality, you could save yourself a whole load of cash by getting a D2x and doing the 2.0 firmware update that, in effect, makes it into a D2xs. The only things this update can't account for is the wider viewing angle LCD that came with the D2xs, the improved EN-EL4a battery that came with the later models as standard (but can be bought seperate to go in a D2x), and the mask option for high-speed crop in the viewfinder; everything else is software-based improvements that come in the update (B&W mode, 1/3rd stop ISO increments etc). I got both mine for under £600 (one was £550) and both had less than 10K on the shutter. The price difference means an extra battery or even a flash unit or lens....
 
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specialman said:
In reality, you could save yourself a whole load of cash by getting a D2x and doing the 2.0 firmware update that, in effect, makes it into a D2xs. The only things this update can't account for is the wider viewing angle LCD that came with the D2xs, the improved EN-EL4a battery that came with the later models as standard (but can be bought seperate to go in a D2x), and the mask option for high-speed crop in the viewfinder; everything else is software-based improvements that come in the update (B&W mode, 1/3rd stop ISO increments etc). I got both mine for under £600 (one was £550) and both had less than 10K on the shutter. The price difference means an extra battery or even a flash unit or lens....
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Good tip, thanks mate. I didn't know any of that. If I don't find a bargain D2Xs, I'm always the optimist, I'll bag a D2X.
 
I was looking for 8 months before I bagged the one at Grays with 92 clicks on it. Worth waiting fir. :)
 
the mrs bought the D2Xs i now have off a Pro she met through work. it was minty mint with 30k on it (most of its life in a studio)
she couldn't get on with it as its not really a beginners camera so she agreed to trade it with me if i found her a nice D90 :naughty:
well after a few weeks looking at overpriced used ones over here i got her a brand spanker from Hong Kong for £485 & the trade was done :thumbs:

sounded like a good deal to me :naughty:
 
paulcamcas said:
I still rather fancy a D2Xs. £1,000 for the Grays one is a bit too much to risk but I'm following a couple on ebay and if I come across a decent one for sensible money, I might go for it.....
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Don't forget that used equipment at Grays comes with a 12 month guarantee.
 
The idea of a D2Xs with a widish prime (20mm f2.8?) and an 85 f1.4 or 105 f2 DC for portrait stuff. Not sure yet - haven't had a crop camera for a while, must try not to get it horribly wrong.

I procrastinated too long and Grays sold the one I tried there but a shop in Macclesfield (Bob Rigby Photographic) has a couple with reasonably low clicks and fair price. If they don't work out, MPB have one and so do Ffordes. I might be all set by the middle of next week.
 
dont know anything about the other 2 shops but ffordes is just round the corner from me when im back home and i can recomend them the stuff they sell and their aftersales dont hang around too long as d2xs are getting harder to find in good nick someone mentioned earlier that a d2x with firmware upgrade might be the path to go down ......... i looked at a d2x and found the screen to be a bit small but that could just be me .....just to let you know tho ....if you are used to a bigger screen it could be a deciding factor ....hope you get what you want soon .......................and a quick heads up cex in brum have a cracking 105 f2.8 in stock i was sorely tempted when i saw it today but held off (well my mrs wanted more gold) :-) ....i know you are not too far away if you fancy a look at it .......it really does look like new
 
yes a gripped up 300 and a 200 feel very similar but there is something about the d2 that just feels right ........cant put my finger on it really ....yes it is an older camera but it is built to last.........is very well made......weatherproof........and you just know when you pull it out of the bag to get that all important shot it will work !!!!

if i had my gripped d300 and my d2 in the bag with 17-55 nikons on both and i had to get the shot i would pull out the d2 .....thats not to say the 300 is no good it is just my preference......yes the 300 should produce better results on paper and has better high iso properties but for everyday use the d2 is my favorite......im sure there are still lots of pro/semi pro users out there that still use them and judging by the scan numbers coming up second hand they are not willing to stop yet
 
as an owner of a D2xs (as my backup body) I would honestly say a D300s would be far preferable. It's just newer technology and generally better.
The only places the D2xs seems to exceed it are battery life and weatherproofing.
 
MindofMel said:
Honest question - what is it about this camera that is attracting you all?

Surely a gripped up d300s, is a more capable crop body technically speaking... so what's the attraction? collectors? nostalgia? Just trying to understand it all..
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A gripped D300/300s is a good camera, no doubt, but it lacks the solidity of a body like the D2 where the grip is built into the chassis. Plus, a grip on a D300 extends the height of the body by what doesn't look like much, but it makes a whole world of difference when it comes to handling (it's probably a centimetre); I moved from a gripped D200 to a D2x and immediately, i found the handling improved - the vertical grip on a D2x is more contoured and your fingers sit around it much better.

In terms of imaging then the D300 is better at high ISOs, simply because it can go higher. It also has CLS built-in, which is handy for some people.

However, for me anyway, the built and sealing was one of the major factors in deciding to move to what was, at the time, and older camera. Me and AWP have both said regularly that a D2x with a better sensor would be great and its only high ISO that leaves me thinking about moving to something like a D3. However, the crop factor is a big part of what makes this camera still very relevant - there's nothing else like it available from any other brand. Yep, you can get a 1D with that 1.3x crop, but it's not the same (although I can see the point in 1.3x as a FF/crop crossover) - I always said that long glass was a much bigger investment and having DX means I get more bang for my buck with long zooms. It's much easier (and cheaper) to get a UWA for crop - my 14mm f/2.8 was a mere £250 - but to go a bit longer than say, my 70-200mm, I'd be spending a hell of a lot more (£1000 for a 300mm f/4) unless I went down the TC route, and then that has its own pitfalls.

If I was to sum-up, in terms of tech, here's how I see it in terms of how it suits me (although I'm trying to be very general):

PROS
*Build quality is the best - essential for the abuse my cameras get
*Weatherproofing allows me to work confidently outdoors in all weathers
*Easy menu system - perfect for shooting in a hurry
*Massive (2000+ shots) battery life for a mere £100 - means I NEVER have to change during a shoot
*Handling is better than a gripped body and suits my hands
*Utilitarian design that fuses mechanical with software-based controls; main controls are easy to sue with gloves
*Nothing fancy like scene modes - just basic Av, Tv, P and M
*Controls are intuitive for on-the-fly shooting particularly the rear (thumb) command dial
*Weight helps balance out longer lenses for slow shutter speeds
*Ability to use variety of Nikon lenses (not just AF-S)
*CF card compatible - I prefer them to smaller cards
*AF speed is excellent - 11-points are very easy to use and well spread across frame
*Cheap as a used buy (gets you 'pro' credentials without spending a fortune:))

CONS
*CLS isn't built-in, which may be a problem for some
*Technology is six years old
*One size - can't remove the grip if you fancy a lightweight shooter
*No AF fine-tune option
*'Only' 11-point AF
*No video function
*No liveview function
*No dual memory card slot like D300s

Of course, many of the pros can be seen in other, newer models like the D300s - these are just points that I saw as a bonus to the fantastic build and handling. The cons.... well, I have to live with them until I can afford a D3 :)

There is also something nice about this body that's hard to put your finger on. Maybe it is nostalgia.... actually, it probably is - the though of using 'retro' gear professionally does bring me a good feeling, although I know that's probably seen as a bit of a wierd, unprofessional viewpoint. I wanted one of these since I saw one some six years ago and although technology has moved in massively since its introduction, for my shooting, I've found there's very little that I can't do with this body when I attach the glass and flash units I've bought.

And the colours are pretty good too.... :)

And ISO 100 is awesome.... :)
 
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MindofMel said:
Honest question - what is it about this camera that is attracting you all?

Surely a gripped up d300s, is a more capable crop body technically speaking... so what's the attraction? collectors? nostalgia? Just trying to understand it all..
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Skintones? colour rendition?
pretty sure plenty of users were asking for D2x skintones & colour profiles for their newer & better bodys when they were upgrading ;)
 
Tirpitz said:
Skintones? colour rendition?
pretty sure plenty of users were asking for D2x skintones & colour profiles for their newer & better bodys when they were upgrading ;)
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And I think there were D2X Picture Control Profiles quickly available for the D3, D3X, D700 and D300 to address people wanting the D2X 'look', so not a problem if you want your to have the same 'look' as the D2X. ;)

There are also D2X picture profiles available in post pro as well for those who may shoot RAW.

I have no experience of how accurate emulations they are, :shrug: but even if they are close emulations of a D2X, that wouldn't be enough for me to have a D2X over a newer camera. But that is me. ;)


I think specialman's statement that
There is also something nice about this body that's hard to put your finger on
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has a lot to do with it, as well as the
nostalgia
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, and the D2X was I assume designed to be balanced and comfortable with the more expensive pro lenses, being as it was the top of the range pro camera at release, but I think having a 'pro' body has a lot to do with it too. ;) :lol:

As with buying any camera though, if it 'feels right', and you can live with any deficiencies it may have, because it 'feels right', it is the camera for you.
 
Isn't it nice when an innocent little thread take on a life of its own. And such an interesting life too!

As you to your question Mindofmel, I'm afraid I don't know why I didn't fancy a D300s and did like the D2Xs. But you've raised some doubts in my mind, that's for sure. Aaaargh!
 
Okay, I'm coming round to a D300. My hand will just have to get used to it. So, D300 for say £650 (used) or D300s for £900 (Nikon refurb)? I don't care much about video. What do you think?
 
I would go for the D300s over the D300 (I am sure lots of people will disagree) but the D300s gives 2 card slots, a dedicated LV button and although you dont care much about video (that is what I used to say) taking videos with the professional Nikon lenses is just like a treat and it can be handy and fun sometimes
 
You should be able to get a D300 for under £600 used, there's a big jump in price to a £900 D300s and I can't recommend that over the D300 if you don't care about video. Aside from the video you don't get a lot extra for your £300.
 
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