Multiple shootings in Paris

Bernie174 said:
In any case, 2 terrorists currently have 80,000 police tied up in France, so you don't need terrorists to make life difficult.
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Do you not think that is a slight overkill now they are just in two seperate buildings? I can only imagine at most there would be 10 exit doors in total including any fire escape doors.
 
Yv said:
Being aware of [and stating that awareness] the potential doesn't make you paranoid
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It does if you think there are "thousands of jihadists in cities all over the westen world, just waiting for their call to arms" - because there really aren't - if there were we'd see far more than the occasional issolated attack (in fact it would be more like say iraq).

If Paris - for example - as a thousand or even hundreds of jihhadis hiding in plain sight - how come they arent attacking the authorities and aiding the so far 6 or 7 active terrorists ?

The core point is that having a number of sympathisers and or fellow travellers with a far smaller number who might aid and abbet, and a smaller still number of active terrorists is substantially different to fearing that theres a jihadist behind every lamp post (or more pertinently on every tube train)
 
ghoti said:
Muslims are about 5% of the UK population. And around 2% of the Australian population. Not really a huge difference.
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I'm suprised its that high in austrailia - does it say what ethnic group they are from ?
 
Do you not think that is a slight overkill now they are just in two seperate buildings?
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No, until this morning they had no ideas where they were. So up to the point where they got held up in a building 80,000 is probably right. But I'd suspect if they could have had more they would.

But also the French have multiple layers of Policing, so there's probably a great deal of duplication going on.

Even if it's a tad OTT for these 2 incidents at the moment, I'd guess that the balance not needed there are on standby for other things, like a backlash.

If this happened in the UK, you'll be pleased to know that it would be far fewer, beacause Mrs May says we don't need them, and crimes going down. (it's not, but thats her way of justifying it)
 
The US population is five times that of Italy, though.
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Not really the point though is it?

The issue is the pool of potential recruits who want to be martyrs. It really doesn't take very many. A couple of 100 would keep security forces tied up for years. After all, the Irish did just that with less than 500.
 
TO put a little perspective, 28 people have been murdered by Islamic Terrorism this decade in Western Europe. Christian terrorists have murdered 77, and obesity kills an estimated 30,000 people per year in the UK alone. Extrapolate this up to the population of Western Europe and you get a figure of a million people killed by a very preventable cause. *

* This is a simple extrapolation in the absence of more complete data. It is possible an over estimate as UK is the fatsville of Europe.

So people, stop worrying about extremists and stop scoffing Burger King and McDonalds and get on your bikes you fat gits!
 
Rapscallion said:
TO put a little perspective, 28 people have been murdered by Islamic Terrorism this decade in Western Europe. Christian terrorists have murdered 77, and obesity kills an estimated 30,000 people per year in the UK alone. Extrapolate this up to the population of Western Europe and you get a figure of a million people killed by a very preventable cause. *

* This is a simple extrapolation in the absence of more complete data. It is possible an over estimate as UK is the fatsville of Europe.

So people, stop worrying about extremists and stop scoffing Burger King and McDonalds and get on your bikes you fat gits!
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Michael Moore summed it up nicely in one of his books when he compared the statistics for suicide and being killed by a terrorist. You are much more likely to kill yourself than have a terrorist end your life.


Steve.
 
Bernie174 said:
Not really the point though is it?

The issue is the pool of potential recruits who want to be martyrs. It really doesn't take very many. A couple of 100 would keep security forces tied up for years. After all, the Irish did just that with less than 500.
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It is the point, because countries with larger populations also have proportionately larger security services and proportionately more man-hours to exhaust.
So, because the USA has a proportionately lower muslim population than Italy, each individual potential recruit is potentially "marked" by more security personnel.
 
Bernie174 said:
. A couple of 100 would keep security forces tied up for years. .
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depends on what they are doing - if they go to iraq/syria to fight wth iSIL and we drop a shed load of ordanance on them they won't be a significant problem at all

the other thing is the irish (at least PIRA) were well trained and organised - AQ(etc) isnt like that (yet)

Course on of the problems for america is the relative ease with which you homegrown f***wit can lay hands on an assault rifle or a repeating shotgun - this is going to be impossible for them to adress
 
big soft moose said:
I'm suprised its that high in austrailia - does it say what ethnic group they are from ?
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IIRC they're often referred to as "Lebs" in Sydney so I'm guessing Levantine.
 
Game over
 
Gunfire at scene of 1st hostage situation.
 
if they go to iraq/syria to fight wth iSIL and we drop a shed load of ordanance on them they won't be a significant problem at all

the other thing is the irish (at least PIRA) were well trained and organised - AQ(etc) isnt like that (yet)
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You are so wrong in every part of that.
 
Extremism looks the same no matter where you are from or what book you are holding...


image1-500x321.jpg
 
Steve Smith said:
Michael Moore summed it up nicely in one of his books when he compared the statistics for suicide and being killed by a terrorist. You are much more likely to kill yourself than have a terrorist end your life.


Steve.
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His was a particularly unhelpful and stupid comment. If I choose to myself harm, that's my choice, not the choice of some scumbag from a middle eastern death cult.
 
AN interesting US article on the language used by journalists in articles covering terrorist attacks. Excerpt below with link to full article.

On Tuesday morning, the NAACP offices in Colorado Springs, Colorado, came under attack when someone who is believed be a balding white man in his 40s dropped an explosive device that went off a few feet from the building. And on Wednesday morning, news broke of a horrifying mass shooting at satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo in France that left 12 dead and several wounded.

Both acts were motivated by radical ideology, but only one of them is being covered by the 24-hour news cycle. What gives?

According to Ebony senior digital editor Jamilah Lemieux, it's because we rush to label attacks carried out by non-whites as "terrorism," but when the perpetrator is white, we view those cases as isolated acts of violence.

"We are comfortable with the image of Islamic terrorists, but unable to recognize the actions of Americans — white Americans, specifically — as terrorism," Lemieux told Mic. The fact that there (thankfully) were no casualties doesn't preclude us from labeling the act for what it is.

"A planned bombing at an office of one of the nation's oldest civil rights groups ... what could possibly come to mind aside from 'hate crime' and 'terrorism?'" Lemeiux said. "The lack of injuries is a miracle, not a reason to downplay the horrific implications of this crime."
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http://mic.com/articles/107926/one-...cymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social
 
Explosions at 2nd location.
 
Reported several hostages freed at 2nd location.
 
chadders said:
Yes. With a bit of luck it'll be over by evening prayers.
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Safe to say it is, and thoughts go out to all those innocent people injured or killed.Cannot help but think if it were over here we would still be passing them hot drinks and a few scones.
 
Reported the hostage at the 1st location freed and both terrorists killed (the brothers).
 
Reports that the hostage in the printshop is safe and "several hostages" safe from the Paris siege.
 
Rapscallion said:
TO put a little perspective, 28 people have been murdered by Islamic Terrorism this decade in Western Europe. Christian terrorists have murdered 77, and obesity kills an estimated 30,000 people per year in the UK alone. Extrapolate this up to the population of Western Europe and you get a figure of a million people killed by a very preventable cause. *

* This is a simple extrapolation in the absence of more complete data. It is possible an over estimate as UK is the fatsville of Europe.

So people, stop worrying about extremists and stop scoffing Burger King and McDonalds and get on your bikes you fat gits!
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Can you jog my memory, what was the cause of the 77 murdered by Christian terrorists? I can't seem to remember that...
 
No mention of the woman who was supposed to be with the supermarket hostage taker.

Saw at least 5 hostages led from there so hopefully a good conclusion with only the nut jobs dead.

Big explosion from the print works, looked like either roof entry or dummy explosion for entry elsewhere, although news are saying the brothers came out shooting, so maybe they set something off.
 
dejongj said:
Can you jog my memory, what was the cause of the 77 murdered by Christian terrorists? I can't seem to remember that...
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guessing he means Breivik, but pretty sure whilst that was anti islamisation, it was also a very political ideal rather than christian one. Cant think of any other though.
 
This is old news now.Time to look for some more worldwide problems to sort out.
 
Bernie174 said:
You are so wrong in every part of that.
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erm no not really

point 1 - it will be easier to deal with them in iraq than it would in america or london - will be harder to drop a bomb on a training camp than it is to weed out insurgents fromour own population ? erm no it won't - so right there

point 2 - The (P)IRA were organised ... they had an army council, and a sophisicated set up of cells with various specialist purposes, this is well documented ... so right again

and point 3

AQ are not yet as organised - the name means "the base" , its basically a collective support for various fruit loops, they are not as far as we know operating a sophisticiated cell system like the IRA (or Hamas or various other more established groupings) nor is there a council ordering attacks , which is why they arent as coordinated as the various IRA compaigns... so yep 3 out of 3
 
Cartus said:
I'm not sure where the 'left-wing' element comes from but judging by this and your previous post where you suggest the cartoonists were 'poking a hornets nest' it sounds as though you have caved in and decided the terrorists are the victors, this is surely the precisely the bullied response they are looking for and admittedly finding throughout the UK at least.
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....I am only trying to be objective and realistic about the situation. I don't doubt that the ISIS agenda is that they would have found any excuse to commit what are called terrorist acts.

I don't see them as victors but as an enemy for as long as they commit acts of aggression. I support heavy military action against them even if it results in collateral damage. However, I do understand how ISIS, and indeed other Muslims, would feel deeply offended by such 'cartoons'.

If these cartoons were mocking Jews the publication would probably be branded as anti-semetic and racist. There's much hypocrisy being practiced here.
 
Apparently four hostages dead at the supermarket I'm hearing. Bad news if true...
 
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