Multiple shootings in Paris

If satirical publishers had less of a leftwing political agenda and more respect for others, there would be less cause for others to so violently react.
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But it's not just left wing satirist cartoonists that is the issue. It's a freedom to say what we like about most subjects. It's about me being able to say that God is a fairy tale, without the Pope declaring the Latin equivalent of a Fatwa, and me spending the rest of my life hiding from the Swiss Guard.

It's also about there being NO cause to kill another human being simply for expressing an opinion and the proportionality response to 'offence'.

In the UK we have made a rod for our own backs, the above comments about a memorial for Lee Rigby is a prime example. He was murdered, there is no 'offence' in a memorial for him, none what so ever, but as usual in the UK the PC Industry have leapt to protect, not a group, race or ideology, but there own industry.

No one has ever died through being offended!
 
neil_g said:
BBC:

"In a separate development, French media reports say police have now identified the suspected killer of a policewoman in the Paris suburb of Montrouge on Thursday. The shooting is said to be unrelated to the Charlie Hebdo attack."
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....Yep, the whole city will be on tenderhooks and hyper alert to very single sound, thinking it might be a gunshot and another attack. Just what the terrorists wanted.
 
SKY showing snipers deployed and ambulances arriving.
 
With the recent events in Paris, it seems appropriate to post this very soulful song performed by Aaron Neville. Everyone believes that 'God' is on their side - I do my utmost to be tolerant of ALL religions and the very differing, sometimes opposing, beliefs of my friends all over the world - Not just religious but also political beliefs. To be truly tolerant of others you can't really believe that 'God' (or equivalent) is ONLY on your side.

 
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Bernie174 said:
Correct!

There's also the fact that some evidence is not admissable as evidence, which means that you arrest, but can't prosecute. But in arresting, you've told them you are onto them, which means you loose that lead on the organisation.
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Re this and your other reply.Yeh you may have some valid points,and I guess that my reply was a bit critical,probably more critical of how it is all dealt with in.I would say any small amount of evidence with anyone connected with terrorism is enough to convict them,especially knowing they are capable of taking innocent lives. So this organisation you speak of,what happens if they get enough evidence, swoop on every person all at once who is connected with it? I dont think that would be possible do you?
 
Are they bringing a tank in ?

https://BANNED/Telegraph/status/553501773517033472/photo/1
 
The French are deff not messing about .....whole area in total lock down......snipers, military aircraft, and yes! Apparently a tank has been deployed......and they are flooding the area with specialist units.........
 
anyone else been watching the french version of i,m a celebrity get me outa here ,apparently the french police won't go in till inspector clouseau turns up ,closely followed by starksky and hutch ,ant and dec, torville and dean ,rambo and bill and ben the flowerpot men ,:help: :help: :help:
 
archangel said:
The French are deff not messing about .....whole area in total lock down......snipers, military aircraft, and yes! Apparently a tank has been deployed......and they are flooding the area with specialist units.........
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Of course they aren't messing about, they quite rightly intend to end this without placing any of their own people in avoidable danger
 
RedRobin said:
If satirical publishers had less of a leftwing political agenda and more respect for others, there would be less cause for others to so violently react. But of course, such fanatics as ISIS will doubtless use any excuse and they have to be stopped by any means possible and not encouraged by cartoons.
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I'm not sure where the 'left-wing' element comes from but judging by this and your previous post where you suggest the cartoonists were 'poking a hornets nest' it sounds as though you have caved in and decided the terrorists are the victors, this is surely the precisely the bullied response they are looking for and admittedly finding throughout the UK at least.
 
I would say any small amount of evidence with anyone connected with terrorism is enough to convict them,especially knowing they are capable of taking innocent lives.
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Not necessarily. In any case not everything the Security Service know about someone can be put before a court. As I said there's a difference between knowing, and proving, and that proof has to be to the same standard as any other before a court.

So this organisation you speak of,what happens if they get enough evidence, swoop on every person all at once who is connected with it? I dont think that would be possible do you?
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MI5 have no policing powers, they cannot arrest. The information is passed to Police who then take it over. If there's enough evidence to 'swoop' on everyone concerned, then yes. If not, then no. Again, like all criminals, you have to have the evidence to do that.
 
I too am fully aware of what MI5 did with the IRA. They need to step up a gear with these bam pots
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And you don't think thats already being done? What do you want a full page advert in the Times? Because you don't know about things doesn't mean nothings being done.
 
Bernie174 said:
And you don't think thats already being done? What do you want a full page advert in the Times?
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A page on the beeb website would do nicely.
 
Bernie174 said:
Not necessarily. In any case not everything the Security Service know about someone can be put before a court. As I said there's a difference between knowing, and proving, and that proof has to be to the same standard as any other before a court.



MI5 have no policing powers, they cannot arrest. The information is passed to Police who then take it over. If there's enough evidence to 'swoop' on everyone concerned, then yes. If not, then no. Again, like all criminals, you have to have the evidence to do that.
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Ah right so you fell a court is the best way to deal with it then? A court is only good in these instances if it carries a death sentance and yeh before you ask. I say ship the f***ers out and dont let them back in,what good is bringing people like this to justice and put them in a prison or whatever?All at the expense of the taxpayer, if I got this right what you are saying is gather information,be aware that these people are connected with an organisation and then carry on regardless untill they know who is behind it all. And at what point will that be, when an event like this takes place again?
 
Watching bbc news just now , the armed police seem very disorganised
 
u8myufo said:
Ah right so you fell a court is the best way to deal with it then? A court is only good in these instances if it carries a death sentance and yeh before you ask. I say ship the f***ers out and dont let them back in,what good is bringing people like this to justice and put them in a prison or whatever?All at the expense of the taxpayer, if I got this right what you are saying is gather information,be aware that these people are connected with an organisation and then carry on regardless untill they know who is behind it all. And at what point will that be, when an event like this takes place again?
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So you don't believe that the rule of law should apply to some people?
But I bet you believe that it should apply to you...
 
Garry Edwards said:
So you don't believe that the rule of law should apply to some people?
But I bet you believe that it should apply to you...
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Not people like this FFS! What a question.
 
First of all, I have been out and away from the news all morning. Has any thing been said that the guy holding hostages in Paris, who shot the policewoman yesterday, might be the alledged 3rd shooter, the driver, in the original Charlie Hebdo attack? There were reports of a 3rd person who the Frech Police said was the younger guy, who then handed himself in and last I heard had alibies to say he was in school that morning.
 
The brothers are believed to be holding one or more hostages in the industrial unit and they have just reported another hostage situation in another part of Paris, possible by the guy who shot the policewoman :(
 
Oh c'mon Yv, you should know better than to expect to find the facts here! :D
 
gramps said:
The brothers are believed to be holding one or more hostages in the industrial unit and they have just reported another hostage situation in another part of Paris, possible by the guy who shot the policewoman :(
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Yv said:
:LOL: I wasnt looking for facts, I was looking to find out latest journalist speculation
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I can only ad that the lone gunman may be known to the brothers afteral, according to the radio reports I heard earlier.
 
Just quoted an Israeli blogger who said the new hostage taker has told police he will keep his hostages until the original hostage situation is resolved ... 2nd hostage situation is in a Jewish supermarket.
 
new2me said:
I can only ad that the lone gunman may be known to the brothers afteral, according to the radio reports I heard earlier.
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I shall ad that I would not be surprised if a few more incidents happen across the country.
 
Ah right so you fell a court is the best way to deal with it then? A court is only good in these instances if it carries a death sentance and yeh before you ask. I say ship the f***ers out and dont let them back in,what good is bringing people like this to justice
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As much as I dislike the idea of not killing them, no, I don't think a death sentence is the best way to deal with it. For a start, it means nothing to them, it isn't a deterrent and it only serves to play into the hands of those that run these attacks by giving them a recruiting point.

On the other hand, you gain by not killing. Information can be gained from them.

Then there's the rule of law. Currently, no European Nation has a death sentence, so it's a pointless desire anyway.

The chances of them living are having said that slim. The 2 idiots who killed Lee Rigby counted on being shot dead by police, which didn't end to well for them. These 2 will in all probability unless incapacitated to an extent they cannot continue, die in the attempt. When a police officer shoots someone, whatever country they are in, the idea is to kill. I hope it doesn't come to that, but in my heart of hearts, I know it will.
 
Yv said:
First of all, I have been out and away from the news all morning. Has any thing been said that the guy holding hostages in Paris, who shot the policewoman yesterday, might be the alledged 3rd shooter, the driver, in the original Charlie Hebdo attack? There were reports of a 3rd person who the Frech Police said was the younger guy, who then handed himself in and last I heard had alibies to say he was in school that morning.
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It's all on the daily mail website :D
 
Bernie174 said:
As much as I dislike the idea of not killing them, no, I don't think a death sentence is the best way to deal with it. For a start, it means nothing to them, it isn't a deterrent and it only serves to play into the hands of those that run these attacks by giving them a recruiting point.

On the other hand, you gain by not killing. Information can be gained from them.

Then there's the rule of law. Currently, no European Nation has a death sentence, so it's a pointless desire anyway.

The chances of them living are having said that slim. The 2 idiots who killed Lee Rigby counted on being shot dead by police, which didn't end to well for them. These 2 will in all probability unless incapacitated to an extent they cannot continue, die in the attempt. When a police officer shoots someone, whatever country they are in, the idea is to kill. I hope it doesn't come to that, but in my heart of hearts, I know it will.
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I can't disagree, all 3 are very likely to end up dead at the end of this, ergo making martyrs of them amongst those that support them - as you say, dying in the cause is no deterrent to them, keeping them alive and denying them that honour seems an almost better alternative. Having said that, what chance of getting information from them even if alive, interrogation techniques have been curbed to almost pointless exercise [if the press are to be believed that is] and I somehow can't see these people just giving in under severe questioning and passing over lots of useful info.
 
The gunmen won't survive.
They'll die by the police's guns, or by their own.
They'll be held up as Martyrs by many thousands more.
 
Bernie174 said:
As much as I dislike the idea of not killing them, no, I don't think a death sentence is the best way to deal with it. For a start, it means nothing to them, it isn't a deterrent and it only serves to play into the hands of those that run these attacks by giving them a recruiting point. On the other hand, you gain by not killing. Information can be gained from them.
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Sure if they are killed they become Martyrs, but are no longer a threat to us.
As for gaining information, I guess that maybe tough, burning bamboo under the fingernails
has been outlawed, as has 240v to the testicles, by the Geneva convention (or what ever it its these days) I believe.
So I can't exactly see them "spilling their guts" as the saying goes,
unless that's via a low velocity round to soft bits, of course.
 
Yv said:
I was looking to find out latest journalist speculation
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You only have to tune in to


IT_zps1b525363.jpg
 
Cobra said:
Sure if they are killed they become Martyrs, but are no longer a threat to us.
As for gaining information, I guess that maybe tough, burning bamboo under the fingernails
has been outlawed, as has 240v to the testicles, by the Geneva convention (or what ever it its these days) I believe.
So I can't exactly see them "spilling their guts" as the saying goes,
unless that's via a low velocity round to soft bits, of course.
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I understand waterboarding was banned too.
And yet...... ;)
 
I really hope they'll survive and get locked up....I'm more concerned about the longer lasting effects and what will kick off in other European countries....I think it will kick off big time across Western Europe....
 
Garry Edwards said:
So you don't believe that the rule of law should apply to some people?
But I bet you believe that it should apply to you...
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since they think they are 'soilders' perhaps we should deal with them by the rules of war instead of applying civilian rules - under the geneva convention , out of uniform , targetting your enemies civilian population comes under spying and sabotage and can be punishable by firing squad, also if they are armed shooting them instead of arresting them would also be perfectly permissible.
 
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