Jimmy Saville

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its gone absolutly stupid and it annoys the hell out of me. The fact of the matter is that everyone comes out not only many years after he was supposed to have done it, but also months after his death when poor jimmy has no chance of defending himself or putting his side of the story forward. With everything he has done for charity as well, the greed of getting money will really turn people nasty. After all you usually call the police to report a rape, not the sun newspapers newsdesk.
 
archamedes said:
its gone absolutly stupid and it annoys the hell out of me. The fact of the matter is that everyone comes out not only many years after he was supposed to have done it, but also months after his death when poor jimmy has no chance of defending himself or putting his side of the story forward. With everything he has done for charity as well, the greed of getting money will really turn people nasty. After all you usually call the police to report a rape, not the sun newspapers newsdesk.
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And it is EXACTLY this kind of attitude that prevented people coming forward during his life. Not only is there smoke to this nobody of any real standing has come forward to defend Jim. As far as I'm concerned he could have raised a billion for charity, but if he's ruined one single life because he had deviant sexual desires his power allowed him to easily sate then it is pointless.

There's a guy in India called Sai Baba. look him up.
 
well i guess we will never know the full truth when all the police have to go by is a bunch of people that came out at exactly the same time to blame a man who cant answer back. I find it very convinient. Sorry, but thats how I see it.
 
archamedes said:
well i guess we will never know the full truth when all the police have to go by is a bunch of people that came out at exactly the same time to blame a man who cant answer back. I find it very convinient. Sorry, but thats how I see it.
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They didn't exactly 'come out at the same time' except that the original women were part of the itv documentary. However, by all accounts the person who put that programme together (a former police detective)sought THEM out, not the other way round.
So, since the story was broken, yes, other women have come forward. Which makes absolute sense, realistically, if they now feel it is safe to do so and they might be believed.

The fact is this is being investigated, the police clearly feel there is strong evidence, and, hopefully, the truth of the matter, whatever that may be, will come out

A
 
I think you will find that there is a whole lot more to it than taking peoples word for it, the police are investigating all sorts of claims at the moment and Jimmy just fits in there along with the rest of them.

Like I said earlier we don't know what hold he had over these people he supposedly abused, weather they kept it bottled up all these years or weather there was something stopping them no one will ever know but the people he supposedly abused
 
Also at at a time these things supposedly took place no one was interested if you where abused or not specially if you where accusing such a pillar of society. It only really in the last 10 to 15 years that things have changed with help lines and other ways of telling your story with out being felt like the dirty one.
 
yes i can appreciate that arguement, but i don't see how a police investigation is going to turn anything up. The fact that Jimmy is dead and unable to speak his story is one thing, any 30 year old dna that may be found isnt going to prove anything, also trying to get all his exact wherabouts 30 years ago is going to be difficult because again it was 30 years ago and he is dead now and most people cant remember what they did last year on april 7th. I don't know about this at all i just feel people have already made their mind up and he is guilty as uncharged.
 
What it might do is give those who may have been abused some sense of closure.
 
archamedes said:
its gone absolutly stupid and it annoys the hell out of me. The fact of the matter is that everyone comes out not only many years after he was supposed to have done it, but also months after his death when poor jimmy has no chance of defending himself or putting his side of the story forward. With everything he has done for charity as well, the greed of getting money will really turn people nasty. After all you usually call the police to report a rape, not the sun newspapers newsdesk.
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Let's hope you never have a member of your family or a friend abused, having seen what it did to one of my friends, who's abuser presauded the police it was made up for many years before it was taken seriously and the abuser lived under the same roof. Trouble is Abuse wasn't taken seriously back when it supposedly happened. I can believe that it has taken this long for it to come out and also once the alleged has died, and particularly when it was such a prominent person.
 
The23rdman said:
Sometimes that trauma is so deeply disturbing it is repressed either consciously or unconsciously and takes many years to come out. Other times the sense of guilt and sense of being responsible means it takes years to feel secure enough to mention it. That's why so many abused kids grow up into abusers. Transference and a broken sense of what sex is supposed to mean.
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Anyone who chooses to ignore, or disagrees with this post, is an idiot.....:thumbs:
 
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so whats stopping people from just coming out and saying they were abused by roy castle? Nothing, anyone could do it. Look at michael Jackson, he did charity work and worked closely with kids and what happened to him? It is becoming more and more popular that anyone in the spotlight that works closely with children or childrens charities at some point gets labelled as an abuser or has to defend why they are doing it.

They say that in the 80s the people who worked with jimmy couldn't speak out... so what about the 90s or the late 2000's i think in the last year we have moved forward a long way since the 80's yet still nothing, but convinently wait til hes dead and buried before they actually do come out and point the finger.

But i have made my point and said how i feel about it, I'm not going to say anymore, its obvious that everyone has made up their mind about him, he clearly did it because 40 people with a sudden higher bank balence from the sun say he did. dig him up and string him up, case closed. Oh and when you have done that, close the schools he funded, destroy the hospital wings his charity paid for because all the work, and good things he has done over the years is all now dirty, tainted and void, the kids are better off without it
 
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The23rdman said:
Did you read my post? Sometimes that trauma is so deeply disturbing it is repressed either consciously or unconsciously and takes many years to come out. Other times the sense of guilt and sense of being responsible means it takes years to feel secure enough to mention it. That's why so many abused kids grow up into abusers. Transference and a broken sense of what sex is supposed to mean.
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No I didn't. :|

pepi1967 said:
I TOTALY agree with that statement but what I don't agree with that forty of his alleged victims all have their break through at the same time.
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@Yep that's the bit I don't get. One eventually builds up the courage and everyone else jumps out of the woodwork.

However far too many armchair experts in this thread, and before I upset any of the more sensitive one's I will bow out of this thread.
 
This police investigator hunted them down. They didn't come forward. Newsnight found 10 but then canned it. One of them went to the police in 2007, while he was still alive, but the cps decided there was insufficient evidence.

How many people would have known about the 2007 investigation and known that was the time to speak up? I'm sure many would have assumed they wouldn't have been believed or they wouldn't want their families to know which is why they have remained anonymous so couldn't have come forward in a court case anyway.
 
Lynton said:
Yep that's the bit I don't get. One eventually builds up the courage and everyone else jumps out of the woodwork.
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Steep said:
It only takes one or two to come forward to give others the courage they need to take that big step themselves.
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What's not to get?! :shrug:
 
Slimbert said:
What's not to get?! :shrug:
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Simple. So many allegedly abused yet not one came forward whilst he was alive.

Don't get me wrong i am not condoning his actions in the slightest. Its just the sheer numbers that are suddenly appearing that i find it surprising no one said anything earlier.
 
A friend of my other half used to work for a government department (no idea which), he told her that there were strong rumours going round about him with children who were in hospital, but it wasn't to be made common knowledge.
I would like to think it's not true, but he would have no reason to lie about it.
 
Lynton said:
Simple. So many allegedly abused yet not one came forward whilst he was alive.

Don't get me wrong i am not condoning his actions in the slightest. Its just the sheer numbers that are suddenly appearing that i find it surprising no one said anything earlier.
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And that is what concerns me so much, particularly those in the limelight themselves. If they knew what was going on, then why not stand up, be counted and put a stop to it.
I have done this myself in my line of work - not connected with this abuse mind you - and the consequences did not bother me, because I was trying to ensure that others were not being cheated.
 
Lynton said:
Simple. So many allegedly abused yet not one came forward whilst he was alive.

Don't get me wrong i am not condoning his actions in the slightest. Its just the sheer numbers that are suddenly appearing that i find it surprising no one said anything earlier.
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They did at the time. Schools they were in punished them for saying such things so they learned to keep quiet and do what they thought the school expected of them ie anything he wanted.
 
Lynton said:
Simple. So many allegedly abused yet not one came forward whilst he was alive.

Don't get me wrong i am not condoning his actions in the slightest. Its just the sheer numbers that are suddenly appearing that i find it surprising no one said anything earlier.
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Just so you know, it's very very common for people to wait until their abuser dies, or is jailed long term, or is lying on their death bed etc before opening up about the abuse they've suffered. Very common.

Lots of women now coming forward (now he's dead) is not in the slightest bit surprising like some (including you) think it is.....in fact, it's perfectly normal. More normal than ultimately confronting a well respected fundraising celebrity idol and fearing not being believed.

Disclosing abuse is a seriously hard thing to do for most victims, and even harder when there's a good chance that you'd have to face your abuser.

That dozens and dozens of women all over England, completely unconnected to each other, are reportedly disclosing corresponding information regarding the abuse they've suffered, should tell you and everyone else that there's more to this than attention seeking or making a few quid out of the tabloids.
 
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The23rdman said:
If you had or knew anyone who'd been molested or raped you wouldn't ask those stupid questions. The victims nearly always feel guilt and responsibility. Imagine how difficult it would be knowing your perpetrator is loved by millions.
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Sorry, but you are basing all of this on allegations. Why didn't any of the dozens, hundreds (or their relatives - hundreds/thousands) ever come forward?
Also, the tabloid press are very keen to take down "celebrities", so your last comment is worthless.
 
srichards said:
They did at the time. Schools they were in punished them for saying such things so they learned to keep quiet and do what they thought the school expected of them ie anything he wanted.
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Can you prove that any of the schools "punished them"?
Did Jimmy Saville have complete control over all the schools in the UK?
 
CaptainPenguin said:
"At this stage it is quite clear from what women are telling us that Savile was a predatory sex offender," said Commander Peter Spindler, head of specialist crime investigations, in an interview with the BBC.

Good to know that the Police follow the rule of law and don't come out with inflammatory comments before a full investigation is complete.

If guilty i hope he rots in hell but all the evidence needs to be brought before a court before he can be convicted
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There will be no court case or conviction for saville

You can not prosecute/convict a corpse
 
andy700 said:
Sorry, but you are basing all of this on allegations. Why didn't any of the dozens, hundreds (or their relatives - hundreds/thousands) ever come forward?
Also, the tabloid press are very keen to take down "celebrities", so your last comment is worthless.
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The tabloid (and non tabloid) press have contemplated running the story on at least three occasions as far as I'm aware over the last twenty years and each time it's failed the legal test. At least two investigative documentaries (one by the Beeb itself-Panorama) have been quashed. Saville was known as being very litigious.
 
I really can't understand what useful purpose these allegations will serve? If they are true? then what can the victims get out of it? If true? What's going to change for the victims?..... nothing!

The only upset will be to Saville's family and friends.... I would have thought the police have better things to do... :shrug:
 
Splog said:
I really can't understand what useful purpose these allegations will serve? If they are true? then what can the victims get out of it? If true? What's going to change for the victims?..... nothing!

The only upset will be to Saville's family and friends.... I would have thought the police have better things to do... :shrug:
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All of those questions are answered in this thread in one post or another.
 
I honestly think it would be best to leave this and let the courts decide the outcome. There can be nothing in this thread but speculation and opinion which will turn as it always does to bitterness and bitching back and forth.
 
i only rembered what happend to me by older woman when i was 15 at my first job the other day.
lets just say it was non stop and unpleasent and i was to shy to do anything or tell anyone [who would believe me anyway?].

you put it to the back of your mind and lock it away.

so go on blame the victims...
 
Steep said:
I honestly think it would be best to leave this and let the courts decide the outcome. There can be nothing in this thread but speculation and opinion which will turn as it always does to bitterness and bitching back and forth.
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It wont be decided by the courts though, unless anyone else is charged as a result of the Met's investigation- possibly with conspiracy to commit or complicity. Otherwise it will just be a report that may or may not be published publicly.
 
What is there to gain from the police putting 10 people on the case? Nothing can be done, surely they are better off targeting criminals still alive?
 
DemiLion said:
All of those questions are answered in this thread in one post or another.
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I've read it and I don't think they have....... any links?
 
Slimbert said:
Just so you know, it's very very common for people to wait until their abuser dies, or is jailed long term, or is lying on their death bed etc before opening up about the abuse they've suffered. Very common.

Lots of women now coming forward (now he's dead) is not in the slightest bit surprising like some (including you) think it is.....in fact, it's perfectly normal. More normal than ultimately confronting a well respected fundraising celebrity idol and fearing not being believed.

Disclosing abuse is a seriously hard thing to do for most victims, and even harder when there's a good chance that you'd have to face your abuser.

That dozens and dozens of women all over England, completely unconnected to each other, are reportedly disclosing corresponding information regarding the abuse they've suffered, should tell you and everyone else that there's more to this than attention seeking or making a few quid out of the tabloids.
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Firstly, I am not going to fall out about this... though I don't think I ever accused the ladies of being attention seeking money grabbing tabloid headline sensation stories, out to make a quid or two.

I fully acknowledge the psychology being it... "no one will believe me" etc etc... What I am trying to say is I cannot comprehend "keeping it in / bottling it up." I guess it's I have been brought up to say what I think and back up what I say with cold hard facts if necessary... :shrug:

Fully appreciate you come across it day in day out, (though hopefully not to this extent) and as we have said before about "wifrebeaters" - you have mentioned the "Oh but I love him because Dave only beats me twice a week, whereas Gary was 4 times a week." --- I guess if you have never been in the situation or know people who have or work with people who have, it's maybe a bit more of a difficult thing to comprehend / understand...

Detaching myself from it a bit, and it may well be off track, and mods feel free to edit my comments, and not condoning it whatsoever, but around the time this was happening, swinging 60's early 70's etc, Jimmy Saville was a big name in DJ / entertainment etc...

Cannot help but wonder how many other rock / pop stars of the era took advantage of vulnerable "fans", as in "come back to my dressing room"
 
cambsno said:
What is there to gain from the police putting 10 people on the case? Nothing can be done, surely they are better off targeting criminals still alive?
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I agree... nothing to be gained...
 
Lynton said:
Cannot help but wonder how many other rock / pop stars of the era took advantage of vulnerable "fans", as in "come back to my dressing room"
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Lots. Jimmy Page supposedly had relations with a 14 year old. Zappa was it and countless others. It was the norm. John Peel married a 15 year old. Polanski was at it with a 13/14 year old.

What differs is the who. Normal groupies with parents are one thing. Seeking out those in care homes and special schools is quite something else.

There seems to me a world of difference between shagging a mature 15 year old groupie who's age you didn't ask about and systematically grooming younger girls and keeping them afraid. The former seems more of an admin error and less of the sinister entrapment.
 
Splog said:
I agree... nothing to be gained...
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A long lived burden lifted from their shoulders perhaps? No expert, but getting it off one's chest now they feel safe may be good therapy for all the victims? :shrug:
 
Splog said:
I really can't understand what useful purpose these allegations will serve? If they are true? then what can the victims get out of it? If true? What's going to change for the victims?..... nothing!

The only upset will be to Saville's family and friends.... I would have thought the police have better things to do... :shrug:
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I don't think it's up to you to decide what the victims would get out of it. It could change a hell of a lot for them.

As for the police having better things to do; well, they should probably spend more time and resources on understanding sex crime and helping those who suffer because of it. Not less.

Lynton said:
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I fully acknowledge the psychology being it... "no one will believe me" etc etc... What I am trying to say is I cannot comprehend "keeping it in / bottling it up." I guess it's I have been brought up to say what I think and back up what I say with cold hard facts if necessary... :shrug:
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Being brought up to 'say what you think', is a far cry from dealing with rape or sexual abuse.

Far too many cases of abuse or rape go unreported because the victim is worried they don't have the "cold hard facts" to back it up.
 
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