Jimmy Saville

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Lynton said:
Firstly, I am not going to fall out about this... though I don't think I ever accused the ladies of being attention seeking money grabbing tabloid headline sensation stories, out to make a quid or two.
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The attention/money bit wasn't aimed at you.....:thumbs:

Lynton said:
I fully acknowledge the psychology being it... "no one will believe me" etc etc... What I am trying to say is I cannot comprehend "keeping it in / bottling it up." I guess it's I have been brought up to say what I think and back up what I say with cold hard facts if necessary... :shrug:
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Which is exactly the problem with this thread!!

Too may people in here with the "I don't understand, so you're/it's/they're wrong" line.....I hope you see what I mean by that.

It's an unbelievably complex subject, and some victims can go through years of counselling/therapy and still never recover emotionally. It becomes who you are, and can completely take over your life....."normalities" rarely apply.

I have absolutely no idea if he did any or all of what's being suggested, but to dimiss the credibility of the alledged victims because they did/are doing what lots of other victims of sexual abuse do, is plain idiotic!! :cuckoo:
 
Jayst84 said:
Being brought up to 'say what you think', is a far cry from dealing with rape or sexual abuse.

.
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In your opinion!
 
Slimbert said:
The attention/money bit wasn't aimed at you.....:thumbs:

Which is exactly the problem with this thread!!

Too may people in here with the "I don't understand, so you're/it's/they're wrong" line.....I hope you see what I mean by that.

It's an unbelievably complex subject, and some victims can go through years of counselling/therapy and still never recover emotionally. It becomes who you are, and can completely take over your life....."normalities" rarely apply.

I have absolutely no idea if he did any or all of what's being suggested, but to dimiss the credibility of the alledged victims because they did/are doing what lots of other victims of sexual abuse do, is plain idiotic!! :cuckoo:
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Again, don't think i have ever dismissed their credibility. Just said personally find it odd so many people could keep it quiet for so long...
 
Jayst84 said:
Being brought up to 'say what you think', is a far cry from dealing with rape or sexual abuse.
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Lynton said:
In your opinion!
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but it looks like you're actually disagreeing with James' comment?! :eek:

Lynton said:
Again, don't think i have ever dismissed their credibility.
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And again, that wasn't aimed directly at you!! :thumbs:

Lynton said:
Just said personally find it odd so many people could keep it quiet for so long...
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Sorry, Dude, but this:

Lynton said:
Yep that's the bit I don't get. One eventually builds up the courage and everyone else jumps out of the woodwork.
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.....reeks of your suspicion towards the alleged victims.....if it's not, then "jumps out of the woodwork" is an odd phrase to use!! :shrug:
 
I had an incident at work when I was a YTS, only told one person and not a family member, thankfully I managed to get out of the situation before anything happened.
In reality I should have told my boss, but who would believe a trainee over full time member of staff when you have no proof.
Bottling it up and not saying anything was the way I went, yes was ashamed.

I can see why they never spoke up.
 
Slimbert said:
The attention/money bit wasn't aimed at you.....:thumbs:

Which is exactly the problem with this thread!!

Too may people in here with the "I don't understand, so you're/it's/they're wrong" line.....I hope you see what I mean by that.

It's an unbelievably complex subject, and some victims can go through years of counselling/therapy and still never recover emotionally. It becomes who you are, and can completely take over your life....."normalities" rarely apply.

I have absolutely no idea if he did any or all of what's being suggested, but to dimiss the credibility of the alledged victims because they did/are doing what lots of other victims of sexual abuse do, is plain idiotic!! :cuckoo:
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This in a nutshell.
 
I was chatting abotu this with my parents last night and my Dad came out with the comment "well the 60s/70s was the era of the groupie(sp?), your mother even tried throwing herself at Cliff Richards" :lol:

However jokes aside perhaps with the passing of time, a teenage girl of the 60/70s going "back stage" with a celebrity for a bit consentual of "fooling around" has now become known as something a little more sinister?

Also, if Saville can't be tried for this what is the point? Will those who are making these allegations be looking to somewhere like the BBC for compo?
 
Russ77 said:
I was chatting abotu this with my parents last night and my Dad came out with the comment "well the 60s/70s was the era of the groupie(sp?), your mother even tried throwing herself at Cliff Richards" :lol:

However jokes aside perhaps with the passing of time, a teenage girl of the 60/70s going "back stage" with a celebrity for a bit consentual of "fooling around" has now become known as something a little more sinister?

Also, if Saville can't be tried for this what is the point? Will those who are making these allegations be looking to somewhere like the BBC for compo?
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:clap:
 
Russ77 said:
what is the point?
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I'm guessing but for those who did try to complain there will be the relief that at last they will be believed ... for those who didn't complain out of fear there will be the relief that it was not just them and it was not their fault.
 
Russ77 said:
I was chatting abotu this with my parents last night and my Dad came out with the comment "well the 60s/70s was the era of the groupie(sp?), your mother even tried throwing herself at Cliff Richards" :lol:

However jokes aside perhaps with the passing of time, a teenage girl of the 60/70s going "back stage" with a celebrity for a bit consentual of "fooling around" has now become known as something a little more sinister?

Also, if Saville can't be tried for this what is the point? Will those who are making these allegations be looking to somewhere like the BBC for compo?
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Well said that man.....

Pretty much the point(s) I was attempting to make last night but doing so unsuccessfully.

What does amaze me, and I am aware that the newspapers (tabloids) are possibly sensationalising things, is the extent of his wrongdoings, the amount of others involved and the extent of the cover up.
 
If all these "allegations " ?..are true, at least the those involved have peace of mind that he can no longer cause any harm to anyone.

As I understand his family have had his headstone removed and destroyed. I maybe wrong with this, feel free to correct if so :-)
 
I know one of the things that's supposed to be throwing weight behind the accusations is that when Saville was asked about Gary Glitter he said something along the lines of "I don't think he did anything wrong" which on face value would seem to be quite damning.

However, when was this quote made? Before or after Glitter was convicted? If it was before then surely it must be taken as a non-commital response, along the lines of how some of the other celebs are reacting to these accusations against Saville?
 
Lynton said:
What does amaze me, and I am aware that the newspapers (tabloids) are possibly sensationalising things, is the extent of his wrongdoings, the amount of others involved and the extent of the cover up.
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Saville was very legal team happy and often used this to threaten/quieten people. Don't forget it was before the advent of the internet, so while there were often rumours about him, providing a joined up case may well of been difficult.
 
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There is another small part of this that I wonder about. Since News International were pilloried at the Leveson inquiry, old stories and allegations have been coming out of the woodwork. It does make me wonder if some saved stories are now coming out the woodwork.
 
Byker28i said:
There is another small part of this that I wonder about. Since News International were pilloried at the Leveson inquiry, old stories and allegations have been coming out of the woodwork. It does make me wonder if some saved stories are now coming out the woodwork.
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I think a more interesting question is why didn't the tabloids nail him at the time
 
Honestly, I don't think some of you are making any effort to think or read some of the facts presented about abuse here.

What is the point? Closure is the point. It saddens me that so many of you just assume victims are after money or should just be getting over it because it was in some bygone era when kiddy fiddling seems to be play. Mentalists.
 
The23rdman said:
Honestly, I don't think some of you are making any effort to think or read some of the facts presented about abuse here.

What is the point? Closure is the point. It saddens me that so many of you just assume victims are after money or should just be getting over it because it was in some bygone era when kiddy fiddling seems to be play. Mentalists.
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I am by no means a "mentalist" thanks very much!

IMVHO, there seems to be very few "facts" being presented, the rest is wild speculation.

If genuine abuse has taken place then fine, if not then what? A dead man's name has been dragged through the mud.

The point is no-one can say with any certainty what happened or not happened, we are just having a discussion on it so I would politely ask you to refrain from using the term "mentalist"!!!!
 
Reading through this thread I am shocked at how some people are willing blame the victims of abuse. We are talking about children aged as young as thirteen.
 
PatrickO said:
Reading through this thread I am shocked at how some people are willing blame the victims of abuse. We are talking about children aged as young as thirteen.
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No.... we're talking ALLEGED abuse of children, big difference.
 
This is has gone the way everything like this goes, the accused's name gets splashed all over the news and press, the papers love stuff like this and glorify it, no real fact can be established amongst all the sensitisation of the subject.

A man that is dead and can no longer defend himself has had some serious allegations made against his name. Quit the speculation, let the police do their job and investigate the claims and try to establish some truth from all the crap that's flying around.

Freddie stars the latest whose just been accused, he's getting branded all sorts, the police have shown no interest in his case yet but people are assuming he's guilty already.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. I thought it was the basic right of anyone that they are entitled to a fair trial and the last time I checked the tabloids aren't an official court of law and are far from being cleaner than clean themselves.
 
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jimmyb said:
This is has gone the way everything like this goes, the accused's name gets splashed all over the news and press, the papers love stuff like this and glorify it, no real fact can be established amongst all the sensitisation of the subject.

A man that is dead and can no longer defend himself has had some serious allegations made against his name. Quit the speculation, let the police do their job and investigate the claims and try to establish some truth from all the crap that's flying around.

Freddie stars the latest whose just been accused, he's getting branded all sorts, the police have shown no interest in his case yet but people are assuming he's guilty already.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. I thought it was the basic right of anyone that they are entitled to a fair trial.
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What we appear to have now is is innocent until the press decide its a juicy story so lets just assume he's as guilty as hell,its the old don't let the truth get in the way of a good story
 
Russ77 said:
I am by no means a "mentalist" thanks very much!

IMVHO, there seems to be very few "facts" being presented, the rest is wild speculation.

If genuine abuse has taken place then fine, if not then what? A dead man's name has been dragged through the mud.

The point is no-one can say with any certainty what happened or not happened, we are just having a discussion on it so I would politely ask you to refrain from using the term "mentalist"!!!!
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Again, not reading. I'm talking about abuse in general. Of course there is no absolute proof yet as no case has been brought, but to blame potential victims on any circumstance speaks of nothing but a callow and dead soul.
 
The23rdman said:
Honestly, I don't think some of you are making any effort to think or read some of the facts presented about abuse here.

What is the point? Closure is the point. It saddens me that so many of you just assume victims are after money or should just be getting over it because it was in some bygone era when kiddy fiddling seems to be play. Mentalists.
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yes lets resort to name calling because not everyone agrees with your opinion.. :shrug:
 
The23rdman said:
Again, not reading. I'm talking about abuse in general. Of course there is no absolute proof yet as no case has been brought, but to blame potential victims on any circumstance speaks of nothing but a callow and dead soul.
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I think may be you need to take your own advice and read one of my earlier posts about my position on this situation.

However if you're incapable of doing so (reading that is) then I said I was getting splinters from sitting on the fence.

On one hand it's easy to question the motives of those now coming forward and making these allegations about a dead man who can't defend himself, on the other there's usually no smoke without fire and personally, he always struck me as a bit of a creepy old man.

That's not to say either view is right or wrong. So again, before you go casting dispersions on my "soul", please get your facts in order ;)
 
Reidy36 said:
I had an incident at work when I was a YTS, only told one person and not a family member, thankfully I managed to get out of the situation before anything happened.
In reality I should have told my boss, but who would believe a trainee over full time member of staff when you have no proof.
Bottling it up and not saying anything was the way I went, yes was ashamed.

I can see why they never spoke up.
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the fact that yours and my comment where totaly ignored makes me wonder if people really care at all or just want to rant either way?
 
neil_g said:
yes lets resort to name calling because not everyone agrees with your opinion.. :shrug:
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Or let's resort to being suspicious of the motives of 30 unconnected women, who are reportedly giving much the same details (corroborating evidence) about serious sexual abuse they suffered as a minor, at the hands of someone who has been dogged by similar rumours for the best part of 40 years.....:cuckoo:

That should be all the reason anyone needs to justify the investigation!!
 
straycat said:
the fact that yours and my comment where totaly ignored makes me wonder if people really care at all or just want to rant either way?
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They know best :-)
Know I wouldn't wish it on any if them, and thankfully nothing happened to me as managed to get out of the situation quite quickly, but had I not, wouldn't have said due to embarrassment amongst other things and it was late 80's
 
Russ77 said:
I think may be you need to take your own advice and read one of my earlier posts about my position on this situation.

However if you're incapable of doing so (reading that is) then I said I was getting splinters from sitting on the fence.

On one hand it's easy to question the motives of those now coming forward and making these allegations about a dead man who can't defend himself, on the other there's usually no smoke without fire and personally, he always struck me as a bit of a creepy old man.

That's not to say either view is right or wrong. So again, before you go casting dispersions on my "soul", please get your facts in order ;)
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I'm sorry, I'm on my phone and dealing with a 2yo full of cold, so I may be missing stuff. I apologise if anyone is offended by being called a mentalist, but I have to add that every single one of us counts as one based on my understanding of consensual reality.
 
Russ77 said:
I was chatting abotu this with my parents last night and my Dad came out with the comment "well the 60s/70s was the era of the groupie(sp?), your mother even tried throwing herself at Cliff Richards" :lol:

However jokes aside perhaps with the passing of time, a teenage girl of the 60/70s going "back stage" with a celebrity for a bit consentual of "fooling around" has now become known as something a little more sinister?

Also, if Saville can't be tried for this what is the point? Will those who are making these allegations be looking to somewhere like the BBC for compo?
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There are 2 rape allegations and 6 of sexual assault with 30 possible victims as young as 13. How much more sinister do you want it?
 
The23rdman said:
Again, not reading. I'm talking about abuse in general. Of course there is no absolute proof yet as no case has been brought, but to blame potential victims on any circumstance speaks of nothing but a callow and dead soul.
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Dont forget that there are a number of reported rapes each year which are made up, so an element of caution needs to be shown in every case.
 
cambsno said:
Dont forget that there are a number of reported rapes each year which are made up, so an element of caution needs to be shown in every case.
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Yeah, but we're not talking about a single incident.
 
I think that rather than spending so much time looking at Saville's past, there are various institutions which should be scrutinised.
The BBC has been accused by various people (Liz Kershaw, Janet Street Porter, Sandy Tosvig, Paul Gambaccini amongst others), of turning a blind eye, or even encouraging sexual predators. What is stopping the above people coming forward and naming names?
There are at least five police forces in the UK who supposedly knew about Saville's behaviour, yet nothing was done - why?
There were reputedly hotels where Saville stayed, and reportedly had young girls "delivered" to him in his room, so why hasn't anyone come forward until now?
There were care homes, where he had reputedly molested young girls, so why has nobody come forward until now?
Saville reputedly molested young girls on TOTP a show which was broadcast to millions, so why did nobody come forward and report it?
The police in Jersey who investigated the awful abuse scandal, said that Saville's name had been mentioned in connection, so why didn't they investigate further?
On another forum, there are allegations about him, when he was working as a voluntary porter at a nurses home in Leeds, so why is it all coming out now?
There are even allegations of Necrophilia against Saville, where he is purported to have paid £500 in order that he spend an hour in a morgue alone with a young boy's body - disgusting whichever way you look at it.
If there is an investigation/enquiry, then how are they going to sort out fact from fiction, because I can see more "victims" emerging and more disturbing "stories" being aired.
 
cambsno said:
Dont forget that there are a number of reported rapes each year which are made up, so an element of caution needs to be shown in every case.
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Never a truer word said, but on the flip side, it seems some people in here think that allegations like these aren't factual until a court says they are.....madness!! :cuckoo:
 
Slightly off topic but perhaps a little relevant......

My first job when I left school/6th form was at a local Stationery company as a PC/Network engineer.

We supplied all of the stationery to an "adult" college over the road to us, they were pretty much our biggest client at the time.

They had a girl around my age at the time (late teens) working for them and she was a secretary and in charge of stationery purchases.

Lovely girl, always popping over to say hi, would pass the time of day, have a laugh with us and I would say a little flirt from time to time too.

One of our warehouse guys took a load of paper over there late one day when the college was pretty much deserted, he ended up in the stock room alone with this girl and she freaked out a little.

This guy wasn't the sharpest tool in the book and didn't recognise the situation he'd put himself in and in trying to reassure her that everything was fine ended up getting accussed of trying to attack her. Now I could never put my hand on my heart and say "he'd never do anything like that" but I'd almost stake my mortgage on it that if she'd stripped nekkid and said "how about it big boy" he would have been the one running out of the door.

The college bosses spoke to our bosses and laid it on the line "You need to fire him or we take away our business", so basically due to an mis-understanding, a guy who'd worked for a family business for 20 odd years lost his job.

My point is, it's very easy to make accusations but the accused is likely to suffer for a very long time even if they are completely innocent.
 
Laudrup said:
There are 2 rape allegations and 6 of sexual assault with 30 possible victims as young as 13. How much more sinister do you want it?
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I was going to try an elaborate in terms that you might understand but it's just occured to me that you still won't get it so I just won't bother ;)
 
Slimbert said:
Never a truer word said, but on the flip side, it seems some people in here think that allegations like these aren't factual until a court says they are.....madness!! :cuckoo:
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Slimbert said:
Or let's resort to being suspicious of the motives of 30 unconnected women, who are reportedly giving much the same details (corroborating evidence) about serious sexual abuse they suffered as a minor, at the hands of someone who has been dogged by similar rumours for the best part of 40 years.....:cuckoo:

That should be all the reason anyone needs to justify the investigation!!
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now, what was i saying about soapboxes..
 
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