Jimmy Saville

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cambsno

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Anyone else amazed at the vitriol pouring out about him??? The Sun want him stripped of his knighthood!!!!

Ok, he may well be guilty, but all there is at the moment are accusations?
 
Shame they waited until he can't defend himself
 
I think it's sad in as much as a dead man can't defend himself no matter what the accusations.

Why haven't these people come forward before now? It's not like these alleged incidents happened in the last 2-3 years and the victims felt too scared/traumatised to come forward so soon after the event. We're probably talking 20-30 years ago, maybe even longer!
 
Russ77 said:
I think it's sad in as much as a dead man can't defend himself no matter what the accusations.

Why haven't these people come forward before now? It's not like these alleged incidents happened in the last 2-3 years and the victims felt too scared/traumatised to come forward so soon after the event. We're probably talking 20-30 years ago, maybe even longer!
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my money is getting money out of the papers for the stories personally..
 
Only person to defend Savile has been Jonathan King. A convicted P****. Remember Savile also said Glitter did nothing wrong...

Those that defend Savile should remember there are credible witnesses as well as the victims themselves. Most of whom were in care homes and special schools so vulnerable and without support. The institutions seemed to be complicit with the abuse too.
 
srichards said:
Only person to defend Savile has been Jonathan King. A convicted P****. Remember Savile also said Glitter did nothing wrong...

Those that defend Savile should remember there are credible witnesses as well as the victims themselves. Most of whom were in care homes and special schools so vulnerable and without support. The institutions seemed to be complicit with the abuse too.
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Not that credible if they have to wait until he's dead to start telling their stories.
 
What is fascinating is the sheer number of people who have worked at the BBC alongside him, hearing all of these rumours and now kind of shrugging and going 'oh, it was true then'.
I think it is awful that these accusation are being brought after his death, but since there IS going to be proper investigation done then maybe there will be due process and the truth amongst the sensationalism will be uncovered.

At least one of these women, it should be noted had tried to bring a case against him previously. Maybe if others had come forward,the case would have/could have progressed.
At this point my personal viewpoint is that there are SO many people who worked alongside this guy who would be going 'what?ridiculous?never!' if there wasn't some substance to these allegations that it makes it all seem quite likely. BUT I am deeply uncomfortable with the notion that he is not around to defend himself (although this starts going round in circles, because of course the risk of getting sued by someone THAT rich and well known could have been what was keeping people quiet).
Very sad and complicated all round.

A
 
cambsno said:
Anyone else amazed at the vitriol pouring out about him??? The Sun want him stripped of his knighthood!!!!

Ok, he may well be guilty, but all there is at the moment are accusations?
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A bit pointless - when someone with a knighthood dies it dies with him
 
Independent witnesses! 2 BBC workers. A journalist.

Abuse victims often wait years because they are scared. There were loads of scandals in care homes where children had been systematically abused and never came forward for a long time. Once one dares then the rest do.

So all 40 victims are lying?

Do you honestly think if they levelled those accusations while he was alive they would be believed any more than they would be now??? Look at the attitude. It's Jimmy Saville he can do no wrong.
 
Also, judging by the ITV documentary, the girls speaking on that were extremely vulnerable at the time, and have felt they were somehow complicit in what was going on.

A
 
srichards said:
Independent witnesses! 2 BBC workers. A journalist.

Abuse victims often wait years because they are scared. There were loads of scandals in care homes where children had been systematically abused and never came forward for a long time. Once one dares then the rest do.

So all 40 victims are lying?

Do you honestly think if they levelled those accusations while he was alive they would be believed any more than they would be now??? Look at the attitude. It's Jimmy Saville he can do no wrong.
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i dont think anyone here is saying he did/didnt do it. rather questioning of the motives and/or timing.
 
neil_g said:
i dont think anyone here is saying he did/didnt do it. rather questioning of the motives and/or timing.
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Because he's dead and he can't hurt them. He can't silence them with injunctions or spread rumours to discredit them. No one would have believed them. Some don't believe them now. If he'd died younger then it would have come out sooner!
 
"Now then, now then"

<rattle, rattle><jewellery, jewellery>
 
srichards said:
Independent witnesses! 2 BBC workers. A journalist.

Abuse victims often wait years because they are scared. There were loads of scandals in care homes where children had been systematically abused and never came forward for a long time. Once one dares then the rest do.

So all 40 victims are lying?

Do you honestly think if they levelled those accusations while he was alive they would be believed any more than they would be now??? Look at the attitude. It's Jimmy Saville he can do no wrong.
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Who knows he's not around to defend the claims is he? So how come none of the forty victims have said nothing to anyone? We aren't talking about one or two we are talking forty and not one said anything until now.
 
pepi1967 said:
Who knows he's not around to defend the claims is he? So how come none of the forty victims have said nothing to anyone? We aren't talking about one or two we are talking forty and not one said anything until now.
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He was a very rich man with a lot of friends in high places (well lets just say friends from every walk of life) who knows what these people have been threatened with over the years???

This happens many times in such homes and we never get hear about it its just this one particular home in Jersey has kicked it all off.

Could be many many reasons why they have just come forward now.
 
I do not doubt that Jimmy was "one among many" at that time... most are probably still alive. You can not try the culture of an entire generation. it was the "permissive age"
We came come through it in to something else, that sees all people with cameras as paedophiles, and many children no longer go out to play.

We are lacking balance as usual.
 
SpikeK6 said:
He was a very rich man with a lot of friends in high places (well lets just say friends from every walk of life) who knows what these people have been threatened with over the years???

This happens many times in such homes and we never get hear about it its just this one particular home in Jersey has kicked it all off.

Could be many many reasons why they have just come forward now.
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I'm not saying if he's guilty or innocent I don't know I just don't believe the figure of forty. Janet street porter said she had heard rumours of it jimmy as well as other named stars so why hasn't she said who the others were? Just incase the rumours aren't true? It's easy to accuse the dead not so easy when they can fight back though.
 
pepi1967 said:
I'm not saying if he's guilty or innocent I don't know I just don't believe the figure of forty. Janet street porter said she had heard rumours of it jimmy as well as other named stars so why hasn't she said who the others were? Just incase the rumours aren't true? It's easy to accuse the dead not so easy when they can fight back though.
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Don't be daft. As if anyone is going to come out and say so and so may be a kiddy fiddler without proof.
 
The23rdman said:
Don't be daft. As if anyone is going to come out and say so and so may be a kiddy fiddler without proof.
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And that's my point three sides to every story yours theirs and the truth.
 
I think this is just going to be another one of those threads that till the truth does come out, if at all it ever will we will never know who did what to who when.

All I know is the police over here and in Jersey or going crazy at the minute investigating the claims of that home in Jersey
 
I'm getting splinters from sitting on the fence here :lol:

On one hand I'll stand by my comments above, on the other my perception of him is "he's a bit creepy" and there's no smoke without fire.

Tough one but my main issue is that he will never be able to defend himself and his family stand to get dragged though the mud in his "absence".
 
The fact is, that there are other people besides Saville, who are under scrutiny and have not been named. There are so called witnesses, women (and men) who worked at the BBC, who are now coming out of the woodwork and pointing figures at Saville (or would they be if he was alive?), saying that everyone knew what was going on.
If there was a culture of "celebrities" grooming young, vulnerable girls, then what on earth were these other people doing, just standing by, letting it all happen? You can only use the excuse "scared, frightened" a certain number of times, before people question what really happened.
Both Liz Kershaw and Sandy Tosvig have alleged that they were molested by person(s) other than Saville, but even now will not name them - why?
Are you seriously telling me, that the mothers of these girls would not have gone to the tabloid newspapers and spilled the beans?
As others have said, why has it taken all this time, after the death of Saville, to make accusations which cannot be defended?
 
neil_g said:
why not if the papers are handing out money for a story? not like saville can sue them for defamation of character..
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Point missed mate. Talking about others implicit.
 
cambsno said:
Anyone else amazed at the vitriol pouring out about him??? The Sun want him stripped of his knighthood!!!!

Ok, he may well be guilty, but all there is at the moment are accusations?
Click to expand...

Not surprised about hearing the news about Savile, he's always had these rumours swirling about him. He addressed it in When Louis Met Jimmy Savile, didn't convince me then and doesn't now.
 
andy700 said:
The fact is, that there are other people besides Saville, who are under scrutiny and have not been named. There are so called witnesses, women (and men) who worked at the BBC, who are now coming out of the woodwork and pointing figures at Saville (or would they be if he was alive?), saying that everyone knew what was going on.
If there was a culture of "celebrities" grooming young, vulnerable girls, then what on earth were these other people doing, just standing by, letting it all happen? You can only use the excuse "scared, frightened" a certain number of times, before people question what really happened.
Both Liz Kershaw and Sandy Tosvig have alleged that they were molested by person(s) other than Saville, but even now will not name them - why?
Are you seriously telling me, that the mothers of these girls would not have gone to the tabloid newspapers and spilled the beans?
As others have said, why has it taken all this time, after the death of Saville, to make accusations which cannot be defended?
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If you had or knew anyone who'd been molested or raped you wouldn't ask those stupid questions. The victims nearly always feel guilt and responsibility. Imagine how difficult it would be knowing your perpetrator is loved by millions.
 
The23rdman said:
If you had or knew anyone who'd been molested or raped you wouldn't ask those stupid questions. The victims nearly always feel guilt and responsibility. Imagine how difficult it would be knowing your perpetrator is loved by millions.
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I have no experience in this so I guess I do find that a bit hard to comprehend, although can certainly see why, and I guess hearing 5 or 10 others go public makes it easy for you to do the same. I think it's that all these other ex colleagues seemed to know all about it but said nothing till now very strange. They could have said things earlier and they could simply have gone to the police and not gone public.
 
Jimmy was untouchable at the beeb, which is one the most institutionalised establishments on the planet. Who would risk their career?

All this talk about how unfair it is for this to come out now miss the obvious. How lucky was Jim to go to his grave Scott free!
 
And now Freddie Starr will be denying everything.
 
"At this stage it is quite clear from what women are telling us that Savile was a predatory sex offender," said Commander Peter Spindler, head of specialist crime investigations, in an interview with the BBC.

Good to know that the Police follow the rule of law and don't come out with inflammatory comments before a full investigation is complete.

If guilty i hope he rots in hell but all the evidence needs to be brought before a court before he can be convicted
 
Russ77 said:
I think it's sad in as much as a dead man can't defend himself no matter what the accusations.

Why haven't these people come forward before now? It's not like these alleged incidents happened in the last 2-3 years and the victims felt too scared/traumatised to come forward so soon after the event. We're probably talking 20-30 years ago, maybe even longer!
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Totally agree Russ. Fortunately I have never been a victim of child abuse, but it amazes my as to how frequently you've read that "I was abused by Scout Master / Taxi Driver / teacher / Priest" in the early 70's...

Why does it ofter take 30-40 yrs??
 
Lynton said:
Totally agree Russ. Fortunately I have never been a victim of child abuse, but it amazes my as to how frequently you've read that "I was abused by Scout Master / Taxi Driver / teacher / Priest" in the early 70's...

Why does it ofter take 30-40 yrs??
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Did you read my post? Sometimes that trauma is so deeply disturbing it is repressed either consciously or unconsciously and takes many years to come out. Other times the sense of guilt and sense of being responsible means it takes years to feel secure enough to mention it. That's why so many abused kids grow up into abusers. Transference and a broken sense of what sex is supposed to mean.
 
The23rdman said:
Did you read my post? Sometimes that trauma is so deeply disturbing it is repressed either consciously or unconsciously and takes many years to come out. Other times the sense of guilt and sense of being responsible means it takes years to feel secure enough to mention it. That's why so many abused kids grow up into abusers. Transference and a broken sense of what sex is supposed to mean.
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I TOTALY agree with that statement but what I don't agree with that forty of his alleged victims all have their break through at the same time.
 
pepi1967 said:
I TOTALY agree with that statement but what I don't agree with that forty of his alleged victims all have their break through at the same time.
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It only takes one or two to come forward to give others the courage they need to take that big step themselves.
 
Steep said:
It only takes one or two to come forward to give others the courage they need to take that big step themselves.
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This. Also how many others do you think there might be who still can't deal with it?
 
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