If you could only...........

Film wasn't cheap when it was a mass market product.

Now it's a niche product, I'm actually quite surprised that it isn't even pricier than it currently is.

Film boxes FZ82 P1010166.JPG
 
... I rarely plan a photograph, and just react to whatever fate gives me. But I regularly go to the same places repeatedly, so I know them extremely well, and my photographs are a way of constantly reinforcing the connection I feel with them. Not all of them fall into this category, but a lot of them do.

I like seeing the same thing over and over, but in a different light from the last time I saw it. But I suspect most would look at my photographs and think "Didn't he just photograph that tree stump yesterday? "
There's a loaded film camera behind the door, ready for my next walk. Always. Probably 80% of my photos are taken within 4 miles of home, so your comments particularly resonate with me. I am a bit lucky though, in that when Mrs R makes a related complaint, she says "Have you been out taking photos of the castle again? You must have thousands of them by now!". But then...

2509APMBW29 Sunday castle drama.jpg

Pentax MX, Helios 44K 58mm f/2, orange filter, Kentmere 100, devved in HC-110 dilution B, home scanned.
 
By the time I could afford Kodachrome and had the technique to use slide film properly, it was no longer available!
I was really very lucky, I'd bought a Pentax Electro Spotmatic but had zero technique. I didn't know at the time, but that Electro Spottie had the most amazing exposure meter, which compensated so well for what I didn't know. I got a few rolls of Ektachrome and Kodachrome, and spent 3 weeks travelling round NZ about Christmas 1974 with the new Mrs R, and I ended up with very few duds. Used it a lot in the Flinders Ranges in Northern South Australia, and in the Northern Territory, in extremely challenging high contrast situations, just a brilliant film.
 
There's a loaded film camera behind the door, ready for my next walk. Always. Probably 80% of my photos are taken within 4 miles of home, so your comments particularly resonate with me. I am a bit lucky though, in that when Mrs R makes a related complaint, she says "Have you been out taking photos of the castle again? You must have thousands of them by now!". But then...

View attachment 470477

Pentax MX, Helios 44K 58mm f/2, orange filter, Kentmere 100, devved in HC-110 dilution B, home scanned.
Yes, a castle is handy, I'm lucky as well, in that I have some fields and a little bit of woodland to revisit
 
I was really very lucky, I'd bought a Pentax Electro Spotmatic but had zero technique. I didn't know at the time, but that Electro Spottie had the most amazing exposure meter, which compensated so well for what I didn't know. I got a few rolls of Ektachrome and Kodachrome, and spent 3 weeks travelling round NZ about Christmas 1974 with the new Mrs R, and I ended up with very few duds. Used it a lot in the Flinders Ranges in Northern South Australia, and in the Northern Territory, in extremely challenging high contrast situations, just a brilliant film.


Rub it in, why don't ya!!! :P
 
In this winter light and dull cloudy overcast skies will i get the same results using a 100 ISO film on a tripod or would I be better off using 400 ISo.

Will results be different?
 
Cynically - the 100 ISO will be less grainy, sharper (because of the tripod) and better composed (because you'll take more care in camera position and more notice of what's in the viewfinder when using a tripod).

Depending on the film, contrast may be slightly less with the 400, but variations in developing will make this probably invisible.
 
Similarly at Staithes everybody goes to the same place up Cowbar Hill and takes the same elevated shot of shot of the boats in the river and harbour. I clung to the bridge parapet and got a different angle.


View attachment 470072

I have not seen any photos from this angle since I took it around 2002 or before. The actual planning involved coinciding good weather before the boats were moved into the main harbour around the end of May and high tide between 9am and 11 am. I rode my motorbike 80 miles each way to get it.

Sometimes you have to plan and work for the right image. Other times it just seems to fall into place, but the guidelines of the rule of thirds and leading lines are never far from my thoughts and often all it takes is a few paces one way or the other, standing on a wall or laying on the ground to make all the difference.

The tide wasn't best suited on the day I visited a few year's back (there with my wife, rather than for photography expressly, so I had to make do), and there weren't as many boats about, but...


At low tide by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

The view the other direction was more pleasing (still from the bridge).


A cloudy day in Staithes by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

It's a location I plan to travel to again at some point with a more defined plan.
 
In this winter light and dull cloudy overcast skies will i get the same results using a 100 ISO film on a tripod or would I be better off using 400 ISo.

Will results be different?
In addition to what @StephenM said, the choice may come down to what you are photographing. Even on a tripod, you may still need to stop motion (wind blowing branches, waves crashing etc) and the faster film will give you more flexibility on shutter speed choice. Or are you suggesting ISO 100 on a tripod vs ISO 400 handheld?

On grey days, particularly with a bit of mist, I found the softer/grainier (higher ISO) files gave poorer subject separation with subjects of similar tone than slower films. As an aside, larger negatives were much better than smaller negatives getting separation in these conditions.
 
The tide wasn't best suited on the day I visited a few year's back (there with my wife, rather than for photography expressly, so I had to make do), and there weren't as many boats about, but...


At low tide by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

The view the other direction was more pleasing (still from the bridge).


A cloudy day in Staithes by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

It's a location I plan to travel to again at some point with a more defined plan.

Nice photos.

I had no wife with me so climbed over the railings and lay on the narrow ledge to be able to fill the foreground with the ropes. One arm for the railings and the other for the camera :D



Boats at Roxby Beck scan.jpg
 
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In addition to what @StephenM said, the choice may come down to what you are photographing. Even on a tripod, you may still need to stop motion (wind blowing branches, waves crashing etc) and the faster film will give you more flexibility on shutter speed choice. Or are you suggesting ISO 100 on a tripod vs ISO 400 handheld?

On grey days, particularly with a bit of mist, I found the softer/grainier (higher ISO) files gave poorer subject separation with subjects of similar tone than slower films. As an aside, larger negatives were much better than smaller negatives getting separation in these conditions.
Cynically - the 100 ISO will be less grainy, sharper (because of the tripod) and better composed (because you'll take more care in camera position and more notice of what's in the viewfinder when using a tripod).

Depending on the film, contrast may be slightly less with the 400, but variations in developing will make this probably invisible.

I was thinking about film sensitivity, really and wondered if there was a low light benefit to higher ISO, I had not considered wind and leaves etc
You are right about the tripod, they certainly make me look more carefully at the scene
 
I was thinking about film sensitivity, really and wondered if there was a low light benefit to higher ISO, I had not considered wind and leaves etc
You are right about the tripod, they certainly make me look more carefully at the scene
The low light benefit is being able to use faster shutter speeds. (or smaller apertures) than a slower film would allow.

As a rule of thumb, the higher the ISO the poorer the image quality. But sometimes you need to live with the drop in quality, because you need to use a faster shutter speed than a slower ISO will allow.

It's more complicated than this because different films have different characteristics, which may be desirable and override "conventional" quality considerations, but it's a reasonable starting point.
 
Rather than chase different films or developers, it's worth considering how much difference image editing makes in the production of the images by other photographers that we are able to view. The phrase "image editing" covers both software editing and darkroom work, and includes changes to brightness, contrast, texture, image tone, etc. It covers not just "global" changes that affect the whole image, but "local" changes that affect a selected part of the image.

Localised editing allows the photographer to influence which areas of the image appear more or less prominent.

I know that some photographers believe that film photographs should not be edited, but that is a fallacy, as it's not possible to present an unedited film image. Even without considering the effect of film and developer choice, the act of scanning introduces some changes to the image, as does the choice of paper in the darkroom. More importantly, the great photographers of the past did not present their images in unedited form. This was summed up by Ansel Adams (who was also a skilled pianist) as "the negative is the score, the print is the performance".

In short, the edits that you choose to apply to your image will make a greater difference to viewer perception than the film or developer you used.
 
I know that some photographers believe that film photographs should not be edited, but that is a fallacy, as it's not possible to present an unedited film image.

It's easy to forget transparency, which is the nearest one can get to a pure, unedited image, but otherwise I absolutely agree especially with the Adams quote that emphasises the point.
 
In this winter light and dull cloudy overcast skies will i get the same results using a 100 ISO film on a tripod or would I be better off using 400 ISo.

Will results be different?

In winter/dull conditions a higher ISO film will be ''better'' because it will collect more light so give you faster shutter speeds and/or more depth of field - much like it would with your digital camera.

Obviously ''better'' with regard to film is difficult to answer because typically a 100 ISO film & a 400 ISO film will be different film stocks so colour, grain, DR, etc will be different anyway even shot side by side.
 
In winter/dull conditions a higher ISO film will be ''better'' because it will collect more light so give you faster shutter speeds and/or more depth of field - much like it would with your digital camera.

Obviously ''better'' with regard to film is difficult to answer because typically a 100 ISO film & a 400 ISO film will be different film stocks so colour, grain, DR, etc will be different anyway even shot side by side.

IME unless shooting some kind of action, with film one is better off using whatever you are used to most of the time and taking a tripod to get the aperture you need (and not forgetting reciprocity failure)
 
IME unless shooting some kind of action, with film one is better off using whatever you are used to most of the time and taking a tripod to get the aperture you need (and not forgetting reciprocity failure)
Also, it's not a bad idea to build the habit of looking for solid supports on which to place your camera. This has got me out of difficulty, when embarrased by low light levels.

It wasn't a very bright day at the County Show but the rail behind the car continued round and I put the camera on that. I've over sharpened the scan but the wet print that went to the editor was better, or at least good enough to get used. ;)

Vintage American car Nikon F 1992 02-03.jpg
 
IME unless shooting some kind of action, with film one is better off using whatever you are used to most of the time and taking a tripod to get the aperture you need (and not forgetting reciprocity failure)

I was reading the other night, three books on the go so cannot remember which one (@StephenM fault) and there was a mention of a film that had no reciprocity failure. I thought to myself "must remember that one" and of course I have promptly forgot.
 
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Rather than chase different films or developers, it's worth considering how much difference image editing makes in the production of the images by other photographers that we are able to view. The phrase "image editing" covers both software editing and darkroom work, and includes changes to brightness, contrast, texture, image tone, etc. It covers not just "global" changes that affect the whole image, but "local" changes that affect a selected part of the image.

Localised editing allows the photographer to influence which areas of the image appear more or less prominent.

I know that some photographers believe that film photographs should not be edited, but that is a fallacy, as it's not possible to present an unedited film image.
Why are you being so prescriptive?

Why it's something you don't enjoy doing, you don't approve of, or perhaps cannot do to a good level of quality "a fallacy"?

Just do what you enjoy my friend, and let others do what they enjoy.

I for instance enjoy the challenge of what happens before pressing the shutter the most, and what happens in the developing tank as a close second. Manipulating only composition, exposure and development variables and standardising everything that happens after is absolutely possible, can be creatively rewarding for some, and is most definitely not a fallacy.

In general, I couldn't care less about making an image happen by heavily manipulating it in Photoshop or in a darkroom, but I wouldn't dream of suggesting people who seem to enjoy that part of the workflow are committing a "fallacy".

Then again, I find Ansel Adams a truly mediocre and overrated photographer, and a relatively poor writer. America gave us far better photographers, and vastly better technical writers ;)

Live and let live Sir!
 
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Why are you being so prescriptive?

Why it's something you don't enjoy doing, you don't approve of, or perhaps cannot do to a good level of quality "a fallacy"?

Just do what you enjoy my friend, and let others do what they enjoy.

I for instance enjoy the challenge of what happens before pressing the shutter the most, and what happens in the developing tank as a close second. Manipulating only composition, exposure and development variables and standardising everything that happens after is absolutely possible, can be creatively rewarding for some, and is most definitely not a fallacy.

In general, I couldn't care less about making an image happen by heavily manipulating it in Photoshop or in a darkroom, but I wouldn't dream of suggesting people who seem to enjoy that more tinker-y part of the workflow are committing a "fallacy".

Then again, I find Ansel Adams a truly mediocre and overrated photographer, and a relatively poor writer. America gave us far better photographers ;)

Live and let live Sir!
I did not state that "what happens before pressing the shutter" was not important. I merely stated it was a fallacy that film photographs could be presented in an unedited state - although I accept the point made by @ancient_mariner that transparency film comes close to that state.
 
I was reading the other night, three books on the go so cannot remember which one (@Stephen L fault) and there was a mention of a film that had no reciprocity failure. I thought to myself "must remember that one" and of course I have promptly forgot.
Fuji Acros does not suffer from reciprocity failure until (if I remember correctly) the exposure exceeds two minutes.
 
I did not state that "what happens before pressing the shutter" was not important. I merely stated it was a fallacy that film photographs could be presented in an unedited state - although I accept the point made by @ancient_mariner that transparency film comes close to that state.

Even for black and white film, which is what I work with, it is entirely possible to achieve a reproducibly fixed, standardised scanning and minimal post-processing workflow to the extent that the major sources of visual variation in the final image are represented in the negative.

Exposure, film choice, developer choice, development routine will impart a strong, reproducible look to the final image that is not confounded by post processing routine unless we let it or we want it to.

If one wishes, 'the negative is the score and the negative is 99% of the performance'.
 
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FP4 Plus, in D76/ID11.

A lecturer at university discusses this in his book. I've tried all manner of films and developer combinations and keep coming back to FP4 Plus in D76/ID11

Although, Ilford Delta is growing on me.

I have been through TriX and TMax. Both great films but pricey now.
 
Fuji Acros does not suffer from reciprocity failure until (if I remember correctly) the exposure exceeds two minutes.
That would be interesting on the OM2 Kevin, in Auto it will meter from the film up to two minutes, no need to calculate reciprocity for night time shots.

Now to find a good developer for arcros. :)

Come to think of it, there is probably no need to calculate reciprocity for any film,
 
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Experimentation is best done using the same components to repeat results and then with only one change at a time similarly repeating the experiment before moving on to change another element.
 
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Even for black and white film, which is what I work with, it is entirely possible to achieve a reproducibly fixed, standardised scanning and minimal post-processing workflow to the extent that the major sources of visual variation in the final image are represented in the negative.

Exposure, film choice, developer choice, development routine will impart a strong, reproducible look to the final image that is not confounded by post processing routine unless we let it or we want it to.

If one wishes, 'the negative is the score and the negative is 99% of the performance'.

I recall you have expressed these views before. In the system described the post-processing has simply been fixed based on some arbitrary values, but is still essential to produce a useful photograph. The negative is the unedited state, and you are still processing albeit with as little personal involvement as possible.
 
Experimentation is best done using the same components to repeat results and then with only one change at a time similarly repeating the experiment before moving on to change another element.

I appreciate that I am still quite new to film photography and that my opinion means little to many, if anything at all, but I would like to reply to the above comment in the following way;

We are not cavemen rubbing sticks together hoping that something will make fire and going through a rigorous testing regimen to establish a database of knowledge.

There is well over a hundred years of extremely well documented history regarding film, developers and their attributes, also the many deficiencies of each. Everything in film photography, as in life, is a compromise. Grain size, sharpness, speed loss to name but a few.

I will not go through the testing exercise, I will guess. It will not be a random guess as I will try to balance the relevant factors as best I can by considering the attributes of the film, grain type and relative size, considerations of the scene that I wish to photograph and then select a developer that I think will get me closest to the attributes I desire, for instance smoothness, tonality and ability to control the brightness range of the scene.

After having a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction investigating the myriad of options and combinations. I will select the developer, note the areas where it is potentially lacking in that given scenario, under those conditions and try to mitigate, as best I can with my limited experience, anything that my research has identified as a solvable problem with that combination. If my developer choice will result in a loss of a stop I will expose a stop more, speed is the easiest, I think, problem to solve.

Its a guess, I would like to think that its an educated guess based on my own research on the various topics which will get me somewhere in the ball park. What has been letting me down is the reliance on the many published development times out there, which in my experience have been well wide of the mark for the basic development process I am employing.

Or I could have completely misinterpreted your comments due to its brevity and you mean start the experimentation after all the research on the optimum combination has been completed, which I have been doing when published times have let me down.
 
I think that you need to slow down and do less 'research'.

I have been using PanF in ID11 for 60 years now. I know how to treat it to get the photographs that I want.

I have sometimes used FP4 and in moments of speed maddness HP5!

Experience is the way to obtain the images that you seek. Constantly changing film and developer will teach you nothing.

Choose a film, choose a developer, stick to them. Make photographs!
 
I think that you need to slow down and do less 'research'.

I have been using PanF in ID11 for 60 years now. I know how to treat it to get the photographs that I want.

I have sometimes used FP4 and in moments of speed maddness HP5!

Experience is the way to obtain the images that you seek. Constantly changing film and developer will teach you nothing.

Choose a film, choose a developer, stick to them. Make photographs!
That has given me inspiration for my next photo David (y)
 
I appreciate that I am still quite new to film photography and that my opinion means little to many, if anything at all, but I would like to reply to the above comment in the following way;

We are not cavemen rubbing sticks together hoping that something will make fire and going through a rigorous testing regimen to establish a database of knowledge.

There is well over a hundred years of extremely well documented history regarding film, developers and their attributes, also the many deficiencies of each. Everything in film photography, as in life, is a compromise. Grain size, sharpness, speed loss to name but a few.

I will not go through the testing exercise, I will guess. It will not be a random guess as I will try to balance the relevant factors as best I can by considering the attributes of the film, grain type and relative size, considerations of the scene that I wish to photograph and then select a developer that I think will get me closest to the attributes I desire, for instance smoothness, tonality and ability to control the brightness range of the scene.

After having a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction investigating the myriad of options and combinations. I will select the developer, note the areas where it is potentially lacking in that given scenario, under those conditions and try to mitigate, as best I can with my limited experience, anything that my research has identified as a solvable problem with that combination. If my developer choice will result in a loss of a stop I will expose a stop more, speed is the easiest, I think, problem to solve.

Its a guess, I would like to think that its an educated guess based on my own research on the various topics which will get me somewhere in the ball park. What has been letting me down is the reliance on the many published development times out there, which in my experience have been well wide of the mark for the basic development process I am employing.

Or I could have completely misinterpreted your comments due to its brevity and you mean start the experimentation after all the research on the optimum combination has been completed, which I have been doing when published times have let me down.

What I mean Barney is that by constantly changing cameras, lenses, film, developer and subject matter then you have no base for comparison. Choose a local subject that is suitable and use that as your first base. If you want to experiment with different films do so with the same camera and lens every time. The camera and lens is your second base. Once you have negatives from that you can change the film type OR the development process, not both and ideally after you have developed the first type of film several times in the same way to ensure results are not a one off.

Every step can then be compared to the previous ones.
 
That has given me inspiration for my next photo David (y)
The advice that @David_Mug has just given you is the same as others have being giving you for weeks :)

However, as I've said before, once you have the benefits of a "stable" working baseline (one, maybe two film types and one developer) you don't need to stop experimenting; if you enjoy it (but it's unlikely to have much impact on helping you make better photographs)

A stable film/developer baseline will allow you to fully get to grips with your exposure issues, because you will know any variation in negative density will be down to your exposure settings, and not "today's special" combination of film and developer. And allow you to get more out of your experiments, because it will be easier to see the differences that are down to the new film or developer.

But do your experiments in a organised manner as @Clive K suggested, and I've also suggested before.

Use your studies on film and developer to discover film/developer effects that sound interesting and seem to give a result suitable for some aspect of your photography. Then, try to change only one variable at a time. Your everyday film with a different developer, OR a different film with your everyday developer.

I suggested in another post that you might try to establish a pattern of maybe every fourth or fifth film being an experiment.

As an aside, wearing my statistician's hat, it's really difficult to draw robust conclusions unless you repeat an experiment multiple times, because, in practise it's really difficult to be confident that all variables are being properly managed. For example is the temperature of your developer always exactly the same every time: for the full duration of the development time?
 
It's possible to enjoy the experimenting and the process, but if that is the thing one enjoys the most then one is better off getting a chemistry set and ditching the expensive cameras. ;)
 
It's possible to enjoy the experimenting and the process, but if that is the thing one enjoys the most then one is better off getting a chemistry set and ditching the expensive cameras. ;)
It's also possible that the enjoyment only comes because of its potential to improve or understand some aspect of your photography.

The challenge is being able to identify the difference between the need to learn a new technique and the need to improve your core skill set (ie get better with the techniques you already know).
 
In the system described the post-processing has simply been fixed based on some arbitrary values, but is still essential to produce a useful photograph. The negative is the unedited state, and you are still processing albeit with as little personal involvement as possible.

I don't disagree, but please re-read that post of mine you quote in its entirety if possible, as well as the original post I was replying to. Whether there is, or there is not, a "gold standard", e.i. "authentic" positive representation of a negative is perhaps an academic concept, is of little interest to me, and it's not what I was talking about.

One thing I'd like to comment on is your 'arbitrary' value bit. There is nothing "arbitrary" about inverting a negative, unless we let some scanner software do it for us. Scanning is not, or should not be, some magic "black box". Automatic post processing can be defeated. Digital files containing nothing else apart from digitised, quantised representations of the scanner sensor's readout can be easily produced. Any residual variability (different scanner sensor, slight difference in raw file output) are probably present, but their impact on the output is probably so small as to be neglectable. This means that a fixed testing environment can be achieved.

In such a controlled environment we can fix as many known confounding variables as possible related to the workflow. E.g. same scanner, same linear inversion routine, same number of bits per pixel per channel employed for the digitalisation+quantisation, same standard non linearity applied to the inverted signal (e.g. a standard Monitor gamma correction). When we do this, the impact of film, exposure and developer on the inverted black and white image becomes important, reproducible and has a strong impact on the image.

This leads to the (perhaps, to some) counterintuitive idea that the negative can, if we wish, be already both the "score" and a very large portion of the "performance" (minus of course minor necessary processing one might perform on the inverted image, such as cropping, adjusting the global black point and removing dust spots).

It's a matter of creative choice and there is no "fallacy" involved in seeking creative fulfilment in film photography by doing away, again if we wish, with extensive darkroom or Photoshop work if we don't enjoy it, and by shifting control to exposure, film properties, development properties to achieve our goal.

It is absolutely NOT necessary to toil in a darkroom for hours with a print, or toil in front of a computer for hours in front of a scan, to achieve one's "vision" unless one wishes to do so, and unless one finds this sort of post processing steps (whether wet or dry) enjoyable.

Just because some great or not so great "fine art" photographers of the past told us we must dodge, burn, endlessly play with paper, toning chemicals or vignetting or sepia effects to "finalise" a picture doesn't mean that's the "right" or "proper" way to do things. Though this sort of work is of course endlessly enjoyable for many and I wouldn't dream of saying that "making an image in a darkroom is a fallacy".

Bottom line, we are amateur photographers enjoying a pretty complex creative workflow with several variables worth tweaking: I'd recommend tweaking those you prefer, those that give you enjoyment and leave the prescriptive arguments or the gatekeeping to the interpreters of the Holy Scriptures or to Aristotelian Scholars (" Ipse Dixit! Therefore, it must be true!").
 
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It's possible to enjoy the experimenting and the process, but if that is the thing one enjoys the most then one is better off getting a chemistry set and ditching the expensive cameras. ;)


Changing more than one parameter at a time isn't experimenting, it's playing around!
 
Even for black and white film, which is what I work with, it is entirely possible to achieve a reproducibly fixed, standardised scanning and minimal post-processing workflow to the extent that the major sources of visual variation in the final image are represented in the negative.

Exposure, film choice, developer choice, development routine will impart a strong, reproducible look to the final image that is not confounded by post processing routine unless we let it or we want it to.

If one wishes, 'the negative is the score and the negative is 99% of the performance'.
Really replying for @Barney but your answer has set the scene

This was the aspiration behind Ansel Adam's zone system. It was also Ansel who introduced the idea of the negative being the score and the print the performance, but the most important part was the "visualisation" that controlled how the negative was exposed and developed.

He carefully placed the exposure to match specific tones and then controlled the other tones by choosing filters that selectively increased or decreased their tonal values, and by increasing or decreasing development times (sometimes by changing developers), he would further alter the tonal relationships in the negative. His aim was to get a negative that fully represented the tonal qualities he had visualised at the time of exposing the picture.

This could dramatically reduce the time needed at the printing stage, and although I never fully embraced the zone system (but probably went 80%-90% of the way), as an industrial photographer(in the film days) with lots of difficult subjects to photograph, learning and applying the zone system revolutionised my photography (and time in the darkroom).
 
This may be my final contribution to this thread. It's in the nature of a summing up from my perspective.

I have a degree in chemistry. I am familiar with labs and experiments. I've spent literally hours calculating deviations and errors in results. None of this is relevant to how I approach photography.

I photograph what interests me; which is mainly static objects. I see the print as the final outcome everything else is directed towards, and use the simplest means I can to get there. That means I use one film, one developer, one developing time. It's far, far easier for me to make fine adjustments to the scanned negative (which I know will always be very close to what I want) in Photoshop than play around with exposure adjustments at the taking stage, and changing my developer or timings. Standard means I don't get confused. I have a sheet stuck up in the kitchen giving my developing times at three different dilutions for Rodinal - three, because I haven't reprinted it since Tech Pan was discontinued. The sheet tells me when I agitate the tank, tied to the clock reading on my timer. I am obsessive about temperatures, using the same Paterson certified mercury thermometer I've used for 60 years.

I find photographic chemistry fascinating, as I do optics and lens design. But I don't feel a need to make my own developers, or grind my own lenses. It's not the simplest route to my end.

I can see the attraction of DIY, and admit that I have written software for my PC because no one made what I wanted. But that was still the simplest way to my goal. I'm lazy...

And that means I don't experiment because off the shelf works for me, so I don't need to.

I don't know if the big development chart has changed timings over the years, but my times came directly from that and are unchanged. They worked for me.
 
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Introducing the process of printing and scanning the negative plus any digital manipulation adds even more uncertainties to the equation :D
 
Really replying for @Barney but your answer has set the scene

This was the aspiration behind Ansel Adam's zone system. It was also Ansel who introduced the idea of the negative being the score and the print the performance, but the most important part was the "visualisation" that controlled how the negative was exposed and developed.

He carefully placed the exposure to match specific tones and then controlled the other tones by choosing filters that selectively increased or decreased their tonal values, and by increasing or decreasing development times (sometimes by changing developers), he would further alter the tonal relationships in the negative. His aim was to get a negative that fully represented the tonal qualities he had visualised at the time of exposing the picture.

This could dramatically reduce the time needed at the printing stage, and although I never fully embraced the zone system (but probably went 80%-90% of the way), as an industrial photographer(in the film days) with lots of difficult subjects to photograph, learning and applying the zone system revolutionised my photography (and time in the darkroom).

I don't enjoy Ansel Adams photography but I appreciate and acknowledge his attempt to popularise densitometry (which is just basic physics as you know, and is based on a theoretical framework that existed before Adams). But you're right, a hybrid approach to the zone system is what I've been hinting at in my posts without explicitly mentioning it.

There is value in a 'zone system' approach even when the outcome is a scan IME, and that's what I aim for: carefully controlling exposure, development, film and development time to obtain a negative that will scan to optimality (according to my definition of optimality) faster, and with the least amount of time spent on post processing (or printing, when/if I print my images in a darkroom).

YMMV.
 
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I don't enjoy Ansel Adams photography but I appreciate and acknowledge his attempt to popularise densitometry (which is just basic physics as you know, and is based on a theoretical framework that existed before Adams. But you're right, a hybrid approach to the zone system is what I've been hinting at in my posts without explicitly mentioning it.

There is value in a 'zone system' approach even when the outcome is a scan IME, and that's what I aim for: carefully controlling exposure, development, film and development time to obtain the negative that will scan to optimality (according to my definition of optimality) faster, and with the least amount of time spent on post processing (or printing, when/if I print my images in a darkroom).

YMMV.
I'm not a massive fan of Ansel Adam's photographs (neither was Ansel Adams, who felt he had made a trap for himself by being so heavily identified with a particular style of photograph).

I had learned the physics and chemistry of photography at college, but until reading Adams, no one had suggested the importance of applying it as a creative tool to help your final prints match the visualisation of what you saw and felt at the time of exposure.

This was the second revelation for me from Ansel Adams, that photography was primarily a creative process and not a technical one. The technique being important only when needed to achieve a specific "creative" or "expressive" end. This led me down a very different path in my understanding of photography than I had been on "before Ansel".
 
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