Four photographers arrested under section 41

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petersmart said:
Somehow I doubt if in this instance they were arrested for being photographers - and let's face it even if they are proven to be totally innocent they are definitely extraordinarily stupid!
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Can we afford to arrest and detain everyone guilty of this particular offence?

And if proven innocent, you are saying that you would take their "stupidity" as sufficient grounds for detaining them, searching their homes, etc.

How are you defining stupidity in this situation?
 
Alastair said:
Can we afford to arrest and detain everyone guilty of this particular offence?

And if proven innocent, you are saying that you would take their "stupidity" as sufficient grounds for detaining them, searching their homes, etc.

How are you defining stupidity in this situation?
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What offence would that be - stupidity or photographing, (allegedly), a nuclear installation at best....at worse reconnoitering.

Two - during the current high alert status - yes see the last sentence.

Thirdly - see the above two sentences.

Surely no one could be so dim as to think they would not arouse suspicion?

I believe in innocent until proven and all that garbage - but crass stupidity at best deserves all it gets.
 
Being muslim myself i would not dream of going to a place like that after what happened yesterday. Even if UBL was not killed i would be very carefull anyway when going to sensitive places like that.

I often go to dungeness/romney marsh for photos of the two lighthouses and the abandoned boats. I try my best to avoid the nuclear power station which is worryingly very very close to the lighthouses. In fact i have never even pointed my camera at anything that is in the direction of the power plant. :lol:
 
I remember the Birmingham pub bombings. And for a week or so, it was impossible to hear an irish voice. I spoke to one older Irish friend some while later and he told me. The general Irish/Birmingham population were ashamed and terrified by what had happened. Ashamed because that was not their way. Terrified because they thought us brummies thought it was.

To this day my overpowering thought is that people are people. Mostly good, hardworking and, yes, god fearing, regardless of their religion. Never, ever judge someone because of his skin colour or his religion.

Oh, by the way, I was a copper on the streets of Birmingham that night.....
 
They were stopped while driving near Sellafield, that doesn't mean they were photographing it or planning to carry out some sort reconnaissance, it might just be that they had photographic gear with them. they might be twitchers or even trainspotters.
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Would be daft to drive there to take pictures, just look on a certain well known map site. More than is being reported here methinks.
 
swanseamale47 said:
They were stopped while driving near Sellafield, that doesn't mean they were photographing it or planning to carry out some sort reconnaissance, it might just be that they had photographic gear with them. they might be twitchers or even trainspotters.
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Good point:thumbs: The police are not saying - only that it was a routine stop and search.
 
cyclamens said:
Good point:thumbs: The police are not saying - only that it was a routine stop and search.
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Why do the public think they are entitled to every scrap of information that the police or anyone else has?

Why do we have to have warts and all details before suspects are even charged, let alone gone to trial?

It just doesn't work that way.........
 
Nobody should ever be considered guilty of any offence just because of their race, colour or creed. But, in times of heightened alight, for a number of Asian men to be wandering around a highly sensitive area without a reasonable excuse is, at the least, not the best idea on the planet.

Hopefully they will either be found completely innocent and it will all blow over, or, the Police will have uncovered something rather nasty before it had the chance to get going.

Steve
 
Jelster said:
Nobody should ever be considered guilty of any offence just because of their race, colour or creed. But, in times of heightened alight, for a number of Asian men to be wandering around a highly sensitive area without a reasonable excuse is, at the least, not the best idea on the planet.

Hopefully they will either be found completely innocent and it will all blow over, or, the Police will have uncovered something rather nasty before it had the chance to get going.

Steve
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Theres highly sensitive areas all around the country, thats going to be a lot of places people cant go then.
 
String said:
Why do the public think they are entitled to every scrap of information that the police or anyone else has?

Why do we have to have warts and all details before suspects are even charged, let alone gone to trial?

It just doesn't work that way.........
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Personally don't give a monkeys what info they have - they obviously have 'good cause'........

Same as I don't object to random breath tests:thumbs:

I have absolutely no issue with the police - I'd rather they avert an incident than have to sweep up after one.
 
The fact is the Police who arrested these men know a lot more about the specifics of this situation than any of us or any news organisation.

We could hypothesize all day long and still get nowhere. For me, if they are guilty then they should be prosecuted. If they are innocent they should be freed.

However I am happy that the Police are detaining suspects rather than wringing their hands agonising over the sensitivities of it.:cuckoo::cuckoo:

Just my tuppence worth.:shrug:
 
String said:
I remember the Birmingham pub bombings. And for a week or so, it was impossible to hear an irish voice. I spoke to one older Irish friend some while later and he told me. The general Irish/Birmingham population were ashamed and terrified by what had happened. Ashamed because that was not their way. Terrified because they thought us brummies thought it was.

To this day my overpowering thought is that people are people. Mostly good, hardworking and, yes, god fearing, regardless of their religion. Never, ever judge someone because of his skin colour or his religion.

Oh, by the way, I was a copper on the streets of Birmingham that night.....
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You spoke to one person who happened to be in the position of being able to speak for the Irish population of Birmingham :shrug: What was he? .... a priest with the power of mind reading or just some self opinionated idiot?

Also, what makes someone good because they fear God? and which God would that be that instils such fear to make these people so good?

It may be wrong to judge people by skin colour..... but it's not a bad way to start................ far to PC IMHO!
 

Week 18 - Power by morganthecat, on Flickr

What:
Sunset over Dungeness Nuclear Power Station
Why:
I wanted to capture the idea of the two types of nuclear reactor - the earthbound fission reactor against the immensely more powerful fusion reactor of the sun.

This was taken on Sunday evening as part of my Photo 52. This week's theme was Power.

Whilst taking various shots around Dungeness Power Station, I started going right up to the boundary fence and shooting upwards with an idea of making one of the pylons the main subject. After 10 minutes or so of this, a security van turns up and a gentleman in his 50s comes over and asks what I was doing. I explained that I was taking photos around the theme of Power. He said they had seen me on CCTV and were sensitive to such shots. I gave my surname, said I understood and I just wanted to shoot a few more as the sun set. He left me alone.

I was on public land outside the perimeter set up by the Nuclear Installations Act 1965, and I am not obliged to give my name :nono:

Nonetheless, it is sometimes easier to grease the wheels than set about insisting upon your rights. He was pleasant enough and I was left to just get on with what I was doing. A police vehicle toured the perimeter not long after but did not stop to invetsigate further. At the end of the day, I would be far more worried about the tog sat in his car in the car park 100 yards away with a Bigma on his camera than me with a fisheye stood right next to the fence :wave: At least Dungeness could be construed as a genuinely sensitive terrorist target.

Mind you the hoodie probably didn't help. Also, this was Sunday night, about 12 hours before the killing of Osama Bin Laden was reported to the world. I certainly wouldn't have got such a welcome Monday evening ;)

I hope I didn't encourage these guys to go round photographing nuclear power stations :bat:

Sellafield nuclear site terror arrests made

The moral of the story is to get your TP52 shot in as early in the week as possible just in case - you never know what will scupper you otherwise.

I have also got a prison visit to see a client in the morning... hope I'm not on some list now that sees me kept in :p
 
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JJD said:
The fact is the Police who arrested these men know a lot more about the specifics of this situation than any of us or any news organisation.

We could hypothesize all day long and still get nowhere. For me, if they are guilty then they should be prosecuted. If they are innocent they should be freed.

However I am happy that the Police are detaining suspects rather than wringing their hands agonising over the sensitivities of it.:cuckoo::cuckoo:

Just my tuppence worth.:shrug:
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Well said, add my tuppence worth as well!
 
I am loving some of the "I am not a racist, but...." style post in here.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
I am loving some of the "I am not a racist, but...." style post in here.
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Is judging people by the the colour of their skin really so wrong? We judge people all the time.... what they wear, what they drive, where they live... etc, etc.

Like it or not the moral values applied by different races are very, very different and it all comes down to religion and upbringing :shrug: ...... My point being that we all make judgements on how we think people may be, how they may act and how they think.....
 
I'd quite like to be arrested for taking photos, if only to prove I was doing nothing wrong.
 
WillyB said:
You wouldn't be arrested JUST for taking photos!
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Arrested in error, or arrested becuase of over-zealous officials, I mean ;)
 
Splog said:
It may be wrong to judge people by skin colour..... but it's not a bad way to start................
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not a bad way to start what? :suspect:

We've accumulated quite a few centuries of experience that suggests that it's a pretty poor way to do anything.

Splog said:
Is judging people by the the colour of their skin really so wrong? We judge people all the time.... what they wear, what they drive, where they live... etc, etc.
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There's a rather fundamental difference between those things. What people wear and what cars they drive are choices that people make for themselves.

Aside from the choice of whether I sit out in the sun or not, I have very little control over the colour of my skin. I did not choose my parents.

My grandfather did not choose to be the son of a German who had come to the UK in 1870 at the age of sixteen, become a British citizen and found a successful bakery business on The Strand in London. My grandfather did not choose to be interned during WWI just because his father was born in Germany forty years before and find his father's business destroyed by anti-German resentment and vandalism.

Splog said:
Like it or not the moral values applied by different races are very, very different and it all comes down to religion and upbringing :shrug: ..
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Since when did race become the prime determinant of moral values? George Orwell and Oswald Moseley were both caucasian British, yet their philosophies of life could not have been more different.
 
its sadly inevitable.

two people in the exact same place taking pics of a public place - chances are the asian will get questioned more thoroughly than the white bloke.

grit your teeth and get on with it.
 
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Splog said:
Is judging people by the the colour of their skin really so wrong?
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Yes. For a start it's totally illogical, one might as well judge people by the colour of their hair.

Splog said:
We judge people all the time.... what they wear, what they drive, where they live... etc, etc.
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These are all things that the people choose for themselves and are, to some extent, indicators as to the character of that person.
 
petersmart said:
So just a few hours after the leader of Al Quaeda is killed 5 Asian men drive all the way from London to photograph a nuclear installation and get arrested?

This seems to me to be the kind of thing the police should be doing in order to keep us all safe.

Somehow I doubt if in this instance they were arrested for being photographers - and let's face it even if they are proven to be totally innocent they are definitely extraordinarily stupid!

.
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About the best comment on this topic.
 
So, according to the papers today, they were not photographing, but taking video footage of sellafield. When questioned they lied about where they were going and had Sellafield programmed into the satnav.

Now call me a supiscious XXXXXXX but that seems a darn sight more dodgy than just 4 landscape photographers.

Either way they are really incredibly stupid videographers or a not very good bunch of wannabe terrorists.
 
or maybe doing it to get in the papers!!! and maybe sue the police for wrongful arrest.. or some such, the lengths that some idiots go to get "fame" and "money".. iknow i am wrong but it is another thought.
 
I wonder if not through stupidity or thoughtlessness, or genuine terrorist activity, if there may be an element of devilment. Like the two lads who caused a panic on a flight - getting on with big padded coats in the middle of summer, so they could claim 'racial persecution' when authorities reacted. I can see them on tele in a few weeks claiming 'it's because I'm Asian'. If no mal intent they are just d!(£#&^*$ . Photograph what you like, but have some sense. There may be consequences. As pointed out photographing kids is a hot potato - doing so in certain circumstances is likely to have consequences..............
 
swanseamale47 said:
They were stopped while driving near Sellafield, that doesn't mean they were photographing it or planning to carry out some sort reconnaissance, it might just be that they had photographic gear with them. they might be twitchers or even trainspotters.
.
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No they wernt driving when they were spoken to. They searched the vehicle after they had spoken to the occupants outside and they had raised suspicions.

The latest news update is they have found "suspicious substances" at one of their home addresses which have been sent for testing.

If anyone thinks this is another "photographers hassled by police" thread I suspect they are very wrong!

Very good police work in my opinion and I'd rather they did this then to sit around and leave it to chance.
 
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mani said:
its sadly inevitable.

two people in the exact same place taking pics of a public place - chances are the asian will get questioned more thoroughly than the white bloke.

grit your teeth and get on with it.
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So you think the Sellafield nuclear production and processing plant is a public place???? (unless your example was a hypothetical one, lol!)

I couldn't think of less public places If I tried!

The surrounding land also has a prohibition of photography in force, which in itself is an offence even if it's for innocent reasons.
 
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Splog said:
You spoke to one person who happened to be in the position of being able to speak for the Irish population of Birmingham :shrug: What was he? .... a priest with the power of mind reading or just some self opinionated idiot?

Also, what makes someone good because they fear God? and which God would that be that instils such fear to make these people so good?

It may be wrong to judge people by skin colour..... but it's not a bad way to start................ far to PC IMHO!
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And you have no idea what you are talking about
 
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PsiFox said:
So, according to the papers today, they were not photographing, but taking video footage of sellafield. When questioned they lied about where they were going and had Sellafield programmed into the satnav.
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I'm guessing that "the papers" (plural) you're referring to is the one report in The Sun today.

Most others (Guardian, Independent, Mirror, even the Mail) are running with the Press Association line that "Reports that the five men had been filming the Sellafield site and are all Bangladeshi have not been confirmed by police" or not mentioning filming at all.

News International seem to get more than their fair share of tip offs from police sources. The Sun and The News of the World's reporting of the police (notably the Met) is often very, er, convenient, with them printing stories about suspects which later turn out to be false after the damage has been done.

http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2010/09/what-would-met-get-in-return-for-not.html
 
Musicman said:
I'm guessing that "the papers" (plural) you're referring to is the one report in The Sun today.

Most others (Guardian, Independent, Mirror, even the Mail) are running with the Press Association line that "Reports that the five men had been filming the Sellafield site and are all Bangladeshi have not been confirmed by police" or not mentioning filming at all.

News International seem to get more than their fair share of tip offs from police sources. The Sun and The News of the World's reporting of the police (notably the Met) is often very, er, convenient, with them printing stories about suspects which later turn out to be false after the damage has been done.

http://www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2010/09/what-would-met-get-in-return-for-not.html
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Not quite sure why the pointless link but hey:)

"Metro " has the arrested men as "filming", which to me means video. So does the Mirror. So does the Guardian, hence my "papers" reference.
 
PsiFox said:
Not quite sure why the pointless link but hey:)

"Metro " has the arrested men as "filming", which to me means video. So does the Mirror. So does the Guardian, hence my "papers" reference.
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Well, I did look at the papers I mentioned (their web sites, at least) before posting.

Guardian (their breaking news feed)

The Guardian said:
Reports that the five men had been filming the Sellafield site and are all Bangladeshi have not been confirmed by police.
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Mirror

Mirror said:
Reports that the five men had been filming the Sellafield site and are all Bangladeshi have not been confirmed by police.
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I hadn't looked at the Metro, I'll admit.

e2a: I take a lot of reporting at early stages like this with a large pinch of salt.
 
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odd jim said:
The latest news update is they have found "suspicious substances" at one of their home addresses which have been sent for testing.
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Which means it could be semtex, dope, coriander or marzipan.


odd jim said:
If anyone thinks this is another "photographers hassled by police" thread I suspect they are very wrong!
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I suspect you're wrong. Of course, the only way we'll finf out that you were wrong is when one of the papers carry a 2-inch column on page 12 reporting their release and the return of their coriander.
 
Must be vitally important. Not one word of them on the BBC news channel, that I've seen today.............

Or could it be that the security services have had a word with the BBC?
 
odd jim said:
No they wernt driving when they were spoken to. They searched the vehicle after they had spoken to the occupants outside and they had raised suspicions.

The latest news update is they have found "suspicious substances" at one of their home addresses which have been sent for testing.

If anyone thinks this is another "photographers hassled by police" thread I suspect they are very wrong!

Very good police work in my opinion and I'd rather they did this then to sit around and leave it to chance.
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The PA report I was going on "The suspects were detained during a vehicle stop-check near the nuclear site amid suspicions they were taking pictures or footage of the site."
 
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