Ebay/PayPal thieving bunch of *****

treeman

treeman

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I’m sure some/all of you may know this but it came as a surprise to me.

If you sell something on Ebay and take payment via PayPal, if the purchaser claims not to have received it they can enter a dispute with Ebay, ok that bits nothing new.

But then If you have funds in your Papal account, to the same amount of the disputed sale items, those funds are frozen, or as in my case if you don’t have funds in there, they put a minus figure on the account so when you do add funds, from another sale for instance, it swallows those funds up until the dispute is sorted.

Unfortunately I’m probably going to lose as I didn’t send the items recorded delivery, only proof of posting, and ebay will side with the purchaser.

Don’t ever post anything from an ebay sale if you use PayPal without it being recorded delivery, as in any dispute you will loose, and Paypal have the ability to take your money!!
 
I think sending anything that has been paid for without it going, at least, Recorded Delivery is a big mistake!
 
It's annoying but the reality is you should have sent it recorded, I might be mistaken but isn't there something with in the guidelines of eBay recommending a signed for postage...it may even be in the rules
 
To add to this a seller can't give negative feedback either, even if he has been ripped off.
I've heard of instances where a buyer has claimed non receipt of an item even though it HAS been signed for. Ebay should never have been allowed to buy PayPal.
 
Paypal is VERY biased towards the purchaser. On a couple of occasions when I've had a problem with a seller they refunded me in seconds (FAR faster than they could have checked anything). On one occasion the seller put things right but then it was impossible for me to pay him again.

One reason why I won't use a mobile payment system from PayPal. Far too easy for a customer to fraudulently get their money back.
 
Not trying to sound unsympathetic, but this really isn't new news is it?

ALWAYS send special delivery, no matter what the item is. Charge accordingly for your postage.

It's not fair, yes it stinks that the buyer has so much protection and the seller has virtually none, but it has been this way for a long time.
 
Generally buyers need that much protection, otherwise ebay would be utterly riddled with fakes, con merchants and scammers. But as the OP says, this is very bad for the honest seller and good for the fraudulent buyer.

Hard lines, feller.
 
antihero said:
ALWAYS send special delivery, no matter what the item is. Charge accordingly for your postage.
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Wouldn't make any difference. Buyer could claim they didn't receive it, PayPal don't check, seller loses.

eBay has flipped from buyer beware to seller watch out.
 
Did you know this...

If you list something on eBay and have it for sale elsewhere and thus pull it if it sells away from eBay nothing will happen. But if you then do the same thing, or have a change of heart and decide to keep it, eBay will CHARGE you the final listing fee. This happened to me and it cost me £43. I will never give that ripoff site another penny.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Wouldn't make any difference. Buyer could claim they didn't receive it, PayPal don't check, seller loses.

eBay has flipped from buyer beware to seller watch out.
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Not sure where you get that idea, Paypal most definitely do check the tracking, and if it's confirmed as delivered Paypal will not side with the buyer.

Their rules are, under £150 can be trackable only (they have a list if acceptable methods, eg RM RD), over £150 must be trackable and signed for.
 
Proof of posting should lay the blame at RM and you should be claiming from them. If you didn't insure the parcel then you're a nit and you'll get a few quid in stamps.

If you think the buyer is lying and the item was delivered and RM don't find it then I wonder whether you could report it to the police as stolen? I'd also mention it to the buyer and see whether they suddenly withdraw their claim...
 
vRSG60 said:
I've heard of instances where a buyer has claimed non receipt of an item even though it HAS been signed for. Ebay should never have been allowed to buy PayPal.
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I have been the buyer at least once where a parcel has disappeared off the face of the earth yet the delivery company claim to have a signature. I lost my money.
 
Dave1 said:
Not sure where you get that idea, Paypal most definitely do check the tracking, and if it's confirmed as delivered Paypal will not side with the buyer.

Their rules are, under £150 can be trackable only (they have a list if acceptable methods, eg RM RD), over £150 must be trackable and signed for.
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All I can say is that on the occasions when I've claimed non receipt, PP didn't make any attempt to track. They didn't ask me for corroboration or have time to ask the seller. I was shocked how ready they were to believe me.
 
JonathanRyan said:
All I can say is that on the occasions when I've claimed non receipt, PP didn't make any attempt to track. They didn't ask me for corroboration or have time to ask the seller. I was shocked how ready they were to believe me.
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I speak as a seller who has had a few dishonest buyers, if I sell something like a mobile phone (which seems to attract the worst buyers) it's always SD, even if it was only £30, and I enter the SD tracking details straight into the eBay system when posted.

I've never lost a case yet (looks for some wood to touch).
 
treeman said:
Unfortunately I’m probably going to lose as I didn’t send the items recorded delivery, only proof of posting, and ebay will side with the purchaser.
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Your in for a nasty shock ..when they do make the decision as I am sure they will ...you will be charged about £25 on top .... happened to me a few yrs ago.. only for 8 quids worth of pics.. but £8 + £25 costs taken out of my account :( everything recorded since then..
 
Unfortunately all distance selling is very much in favour of the buyer. This isn't just limited to Paypal, online credit card merchants also have to put it with the same difficulties. If a buyer notes non delivery and contacts the bank for a refund, some banks will immediately issue a charge back with costs. Even if delivered, if a seller changes their mind for any reason the seller must pay for the return (and collection if need be) of the goods.
 
MagicMynx said:
I have been the buyer at least once where a parcel has disappeared off the face of the earth yet the delivery company claim to have a signature. I lost my money.
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Yup - we've had the signature emailed us as proof and it's a tick or a line, no signature at all...
Othertimes we'vehad really good delivery drivers
 
Byker28i said:
Yup - we've had the signature emailed us as proof and it's a tick or a line, no signature at all...
Othertimes we'vehad really good delivery drivers
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Whilst no excuse - those stupid devices they use to accept signatures are useless.
 
Byker28i said:
Yup - we've had the signature emailed us as proof and it's a tick or a line, no signature at all...
Othertimes we'vehad really good delivery drivers
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Oh this had a signature, not mine or anyones at the address, pretty sure they used a common name too, like Smith or whatever. :(
I've also received signed for packages that never got signed for.
 
I rarely sell anything on Ebay, but I do think they should warn you against not sending something recorded, and they should clearly point out that they will side with the buyer. In this case it was a few Elinchrom reflectors and some grids, hardly your usual fraudulent stuff, maybe I was being naive.

The problem this does leave me with is I use PayPal for my website sales, and now I'm definitely moving my business on principle, but where else do you go?
 
treeman said:
I rarely sell anything on Ebay, but I do think they should warn you against not sending something recorded, and they should clearly point out that they will side with the buyer. In this case it was a few Elinchrom reflectors and some grids, hardly your usual fraudulent stuff, maybe I was being naive.

The problem this does leave me with is I use PayPal for my website sales, and now I'm definitely moving my business on principle, but where else do you go?
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Please don't take offence, but isn't that similar to expecting the highways authority to advise you to be careful each time you cross the road?
 
drounding said:
Unfortunately all distance selling is very much in favour of the buyer. This isn't just limited to Paypal, online credit card merchants also have to put it with the same difficulties. If a buyer notes non delivery and contacts the bank for a refund, some banks will immediately issue a charge back with costs. Even if delivered, if a seller changes their mind for any reason the seller must pay for the return (and collection if need be) of the goods.
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Rubbish. If a customer changes their mind the only time a seller HAS to pay return postage is if it is not made clear in the terms and conditions that return postage will be for the buyers account.
 
treeman said:
I rarely sell anything on Ebay, but I do think they should warn you against not sending something recorded, and they should clearly point out that they will side with the buyer. In this case it was a few Elinchrom reflectors and some grids, hardly your usual fraudulent stuff, maybe I was being naive.

The problem this does leave me with is I use PayPal for my website sales, and now I'm definitely moving my business on principle, but where else do you go?
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Have you ever thought that maybe the customer genuinely hasn't received the goods. Stuff does go missing in the post.

How long has the customer been waiting. Royal Mail do not consider an item lost or delayed until 15 working days after the stem was sent, plus you have the Christmas post rush which may have delayed it.
 
Be aware that the PO aren't always great. I sent about £500 worth of materials to a customer recorded delivery, only to get panicky emails while I was away on holiday that they'd not arrived and they were desperate. I managed to arrange a friend to send emergency supplies by RMSD next day and, miraculously, both deliveries arrived together, the first 3 weeks late. Seems someone in Plymouth couldn't be bothered to take a parcel to the local hospital.

These days unless the item is less than £100 I ship RMSD, and if possible will use a real tracked courier. It could be that undelivered parcel really is undelivered and is just sitting in a postroom somewhere.
 
Elliott has a point, I've had even first class parcels taking over a week to arrive in the last few weeks. Your parcel could be sitting in a RM depot somewhere.
 
RMSD Still means little to the con merchants that own paypal. i was stung once, sold a phone, about 4-6 weeks later a dispute was opened as it was 'not as described'. Was sent back to me and was not the same phone I sent. Paypal took the money so I had -£200 or so in my account. I refused to pay and the only way I could communicate was by email and they did not bother reading the emails. So i left it, set up another account and then sold the phone for £125 or so. I did offer to pay them the £125 but they refused so I kept it (so was actually £125 up)!

Since then I will only sell low value stuff, which is a shame as I have a Leica M2 that I am trying to sell but just don't trust them.
 
cambsno said:
RMSD Still means little to the con merchants that own paypal. i was stung once, sold a phone, about 4-6 weeks later a dispute was opened as it was 'not as described'. Was sent back to me and was not the same phone I sent. Paypal took the money so I had -£200 or so in my account. I refused to pay and the only way I could communicate was by email and they did not bother reading the emails. So i left it, set up another account and then sold the phone for £125 or so. I did offer to pay them the £125 but they refused so I kept it (so was actually £125 up)!

Since then I will only sell low value stuff, which is a shame as I have a Leica M2 that I am trying to sell but just don't trust them.
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We once had a piece of wood returned in the phone box, rather than a phone. We must have been lucky, sent photos of the return and with the discrepancy in weight between our parcel out and the return parcel had Paypal side with us.

As the buyer steadfastly claimed he returned the phone, I had it blacklisted as well, so he lost the box and all accessories, and gained a blacklisted phone. His tough luck.
 
cambsno said:
RMSD Still means little to the con merchants that own paypal. i was stung once, sold a phone, about 4-6 weeks later a dispute was opened as it was 'not as described'. Was sent back to me and was not the same phone I sent. Paypal took the money so I had -£200 or so in my account. I refused to pay and the only way I could communicate was by email and they did not bother reading the emails. So i left it, set up another account and then sold the phone for £125 or so. I did offer to pay them the £125 but they refused so I kept it (so was actually £125 up)!

Since then I will only sell low value stuff, which is a shame as I have a Leica M2 that I am trying to sell but just don't trust them.
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That doesn't seem to have much to do with the postal service used though?
 
neil_g said:
That doesn't seem to have much to do with the postal service used though?
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Its firstly that they are a bunch of *****, and also that I could buy something from you and probably not send the same item back and get away with it.
 
I accept being a numpty for not sending Recorded delivery, but my point of the thread was that PayPal will effectively take my money, while they await the buyers (very slow) response. Surely you're innocent until proven guilty?
 
treeman said:
I accept being a numpty for not sending Recorded delivery, but my point of the thread was that PayPal will effectively take my money, while they await the buyers (very slow) response. Surely you're innocent until proven guilty?
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Not in Luxembourg.....

There's a reason PayPal are incorporated there.
 
if you have proof of postage and the buyer accepted the postage option then I can't see how you can be at fault its the Royal mails fault. I send things requiring a signature for peace of mind and incorporate that into the postage.

always remove the money from the paypal account as soon as it goes in
 
POAH said:
always remove the money from the paypal account as soon as it goes in
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Oh I did, but a few days later, someone purchased some prints from my site, and the money went straight into my PayPal account, and the thieving ******* immediately grabbed it!
 
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