crit'in others work *mini rant*

as i am completely new to this i dont feel that i have the knowledge to critique in depth, but then i want to tell the submitter if i like the image or not. i know from experience that even a " nice shot" or "i like the colours" etc.. always encourages me to post more and take more. when i frst joined this site i used to just lurk and not really say what my opinion of a photo was but now that i have started posting photos i understand that even the smallest of comments can help.
 
The point Toothie is making (I think) is that these are forums, not an irc club, if you post comments in irc it's easy enough to copy and paste them into the corresponding thread on the forum, so that everybody benefits.
 
Steep said:
The point Toothie is making (I think) is that these are forums, not an irc club, if you post comments in irc it's easy enough to copy and paste them into the corresponding thread on the forum, so that everybody benefits.
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Yes, that's about it, fine discuss photos off the boards but you can still comment on the boards:)
 
Steep said:
The point Toothie is making (I think) is that these are forums, not an irc club, if you post comments in irc it's easy enough to copy and paste them into the corresponding thread on the forum, so that everybody benefits.
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True, but a lot of the time in IRC you can be completely honest about how you feel about a photo, which on the forums would be seen as brutal maybe (not that it's in any way a slagging off session etc, it's just a little more critical and a little less sickly). But fair point.
 
benneh said:
True, but a lot of the time in IRC you can be completely honest about how you feel about a photo, which on the forums would be seen as brutal maybe (not that it's in any way a slagging off session etc, it's just a little more critical and a little less sickly). But fair point.
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You don't have to copy and paste and if the author of the photo knows what your saying, who are you worried about offending by appearing brutal?

I like the honesty on this forum and it has really helped me improve. When i first joined i posted some pics and i got an honest response, it felt brutal at the time, but really it was fair comment. But i stuck with it and i learnt and i'm getting better as a result.

Being nice isn't help full to anyone.
 
I think if you are lucky enought to get comments in the first place, you should be happy with that!
Even if they are only two words, it still takes some effort, and obviously they felt it was worth it to comment?

:exit:

:shrug:
 
benneh said:
Well that's the point of the thread really isn't it. And I agree. Generally if I reply I either point out what I like or what I don't like :).
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I think your right there.

I do try to make comments other than nice shot, i don't always manage it though, sometimes i just have nothing more to say, and nobody is perfect right.
 
Don't you worry Pete, when you get big and famous we'll make sure your feet stay on the ground ;)
 
Steep said:
Don't you worry Pete, when you get big and famous we'll make sure your feet stay on the ground ;)
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I am huge in my area... so big i cant walk outta the house without a police escort... although for some reason they make me wear this real heavy ankle bracelet?!?!?!
 
CT said:
Fair point Cobra -snip .......... It seems good manners don't always apply on the internet. ;)
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Yep I am afraid your right CT :(

Ajophotog said:
Maybe we should all just say nice shot and then mark out of 20 :lol: :p

I give this reply 18/20 ;)
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And you should keep practicing young man!
One day you'll get the whole spider / wasp/ earwig in the frame instead of little idsy bidsy parts of it :p :lol:

Toothie said:
Yes, that's about it, fine discuss photos off the boards but you can still comment on the boards:)
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Nice comment :D
Fair point Ruthie and a good one at that :thumbs:
 
But if you are truly honest and it comes across as brutal, how does that help someone who is starting out to gain confidence? More likely they will be throwing the camera in the bin!

Seriously, it is a balancing act between giving good, factually based critique and really upsetting someone. Not everyone comes equipped with rhino hide.

It's all about encouragement, taking those small steps that make us all better, not about battering someones ego.

And as a relatively new member I've not found it cliquey compared to other sites I'm a member of, in fact quite the reverse.
 
AliB said:
But if you are truly honest and it comes across as brutal, how does that help someone who is starting out to gain confidence? More likely they will be throwing the camera in the bin!

Seriously, it is a balancing act between giving good, factually based critique and really upsetting someone. Not everyone comes equipped with rhino hide.

It's all about encouragement, taking those small steps that make us all better, not about battering someones ego.

And as a relatively new member I've not found it cliquey compared to other sites I'm a member of, in fact quite the reverse.
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Your right about the balancing act AliB, and I'm not suggesting you brutaly rip apart every new members photos until they learn something, but it's not helpful to say shots are good when there not.

Also i've never found this site cliquey. I'm continuously amassed how many, pro / expert photographers are willing to give their time and expert knowledge to help people with little or no experience on this site. Many people would charge a fortune for the advice people give out for free on this site.
 
^^^ Good post Mr B! ^^^

The thing we all have in common from the most hairy arsed rufty tufty among us to the more sensitive, is we're all trying to express something through the medium, and we all care what people say about our images. Tell me you don't care if you like, but I'm not having it. ;) A balance of honest criticism and encouragement benefits everyone, and done properly, shouldn't cause anyone to want to whack their gear on ebay.

If it all goes to rat ****, we'll only have ourselves to blame, but at least as long as we care enough to voice the opinions expressed here we shouldn't be in any real danger. :wave:
 
Many people would charge a fortune for the advice people give out for free on this site
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shuuu Tootie :lol:

shouldn't cause anyone to want to whack their gear on ebay
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I feel like it all the time.... ok never :D if someone wants to imporove thier photography they gotta take the knocks with the praise. Not everybody likes the Mona Lisa, or Sunflowers and they are works of art :)
 
Wow, what an interesting thread!

I for one have greatly valued the feedback I have received on my pictures from this forum, in fact I hold this forum responsible for me getting really interested in photography :thumbs: When I go out for some togging time I look forward to processing and posting to share something that I am pleased with. It is nice to get compliments on that shot, especially from someone whose work you admire, but I have found the critique to be incredibly helpful. My skills have increased dramatically (my opinion!) in the past four months due to in main this forum :clap:

The greatest buzz I have had more recently is sharing some of that experience with another newbie who was frustrated with their shots. Being able to help someone else in the same way that I had been helped (thanks CT :thumbs:) gave me an tremendous sense of satisfaction :woot:

From some the feedback on this thread so far I think it is perhaps easy to forget how you started in this hobby and how little you knew back then. However this forum has members with vastly differing skills and therefore it is perhaps more difficult to always judge the OP experience until they start to post on here more often. Someone's first post certainly is not an indication of experience. Hence it can be difficult to judge the feedback perhaps? I suppose what I am getting at is that some people are just better with being patient and helping new comers. So perhaps there is some mileage in having an experience rating in the posters details?

It is difficult to judge and we will all have our own rules and reasons for leaving / not leaving feedback based on personal confidence or good/bad experience. I for one value the feedback from this forums members :woot:

I am posting this as a newb so I have little experience to draw upon when leaving feedback but I will try and explain how I view the image.

Rambling now so probably not making any sense :bonk:
 
I find it odd that the busiest sections on this forum, though I may be wrong of course, seems to be the "equipment" section. Where, practically, the PC&S should be the busiest, it seems that the majority are fixated with equipment rather than the end product.

And yes, I did ask about D3`s and 300`s in that section and decided to learn to use what I had to the best of my ability rather than spend even more money being a mundane tog......:lol:
 
Personally, it doesn't bother me if someone simply posts "Nice photo" or similar...I take it as meaning every aspect works fairly well. Positive feedback, great! If someone posts suggestions to improve it, that's fine too - but I don't think a person should be penalised for not favouring a particular aspect of a shot - or for perhaps being in a rush, but wanting to make sure credit was given for a good effort.

Having constructive critisism is great, but as has been said - there is a fine line between being constructive and being overly critical, and it's understandable if some people do not want to tread it.
 
fracster said:
I find it odd that the busiest sections on this forum, though I may be wrong of course, seems to be the "equipment" section. Where, practically, the PC&S should be the busiest, it seems that the majority are fixated with equipment rather than the end product
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That doesn't really surprise me. I guess a lot of people blame their kit or think they'll improve if they buy a new lens.
 
I’ve only been on the site for a few weeks but have already learnt some useful things and had some inspiration from other people works.

Comments/Critique, for me personally, falls into two categories, ‘personal taste’ and ‘technical/technique’.

The OP made a comment on one of my shots yesterday, PS process, which did indeed improve the shot.

It is difficult, I certainly have not got the time to do a full in depth analysis of every shot posted.

I would also possibly be more critical in my remarks of a more experienced members work and maybe more sympathetic and encouraging to someone just starting out.

I try to be as honest as my time allows me to be.
 
Venomator said:


Oh you do do you ... :suspect: ... then why don't you PWYP ... :shrug:



Is this really any different to that which you are ranting against ... really ... :thinking:



Aha ... so you do use that nice word then ... :D


What about the other 6 images[/I] ... :thinking:



OK ... so you substitute great for nice ... big deal ... :shrug:



No comment on the others again though ...



That nice word again ...


Do we really need to go on ... :suspect: ...


In fact I am not sure I came across many responses by your good self where you did actually fulfil the reason for your burst pipe in the first place ... perhaps I am missing something ... :naughty:





Nice OP though ... :thumbs:





Counter-rant over ...
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yes mr smarty pants [<--edited:p] you missed by a mile, i did say i was guilty of doing it myself, and if you had cared to read other posts i made i was more curious as to what went through peoples minds and how they went about crit'n someone elses work.
Maybe this was so i could offer more from myself?
 
a1ex2001 said:
The trouble for me is people quite often get really aggressive if you criticise a picture, I've had people go off the deep end asking to see proof that I can take a better picture etc. which for me misses the point a good critic doesn't need to be a good artist you just need to understand what makes a good shot. Some forums are made up of people who recieve criticism in a much more receptive manor unfortunately a lot here don't and just think that there shots are beyond reproach and want a sting of 'Great Shot' type responses.

So to make my point I don't tend to be entirely honest with feedback to avoid nasty incidents I will also quite often use the nice shot comment and then offer a couple of pointers that I think would improve the shot.

PS the reason not many of my images are on the internet is because I'm really harsh on my own stuff and don't like most of it enough to share it!
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I agree, there are people that become angry, i personally wouldnt say someone is wrong though if they have an opinion that my image is rubbish, thats their own opinion and i dont have to share it. but i'd love for them to tell me why they think it is rubbish, and then if i was shooting something or some subject that was the same i may even try the way they suggested.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
Took a while to read this thread!

I too like many others, it seems, am guilt of the 'nice shot' comments, but I try and add something more to it - such as 'maybe increading the constrast might help make it stand out more...' or something along those lines. I am no expert but I have learnt a few things when it comes to processing and feel I can often comment on that easier than I can on the photograph itself.

As for how I decide how to crit a shot (if at all) I tend to go on first impressions. I opena thread...if it is something that interests me or catches my eye I will look at it some more, and decide if I would have done anything different myself. I dont look at it technically to start with I purely go on if it makes me go 'oooo thats good' - so I guess simply I could just reply with that (and I probably have) but if there is something I would maybe have done differently then I would generally say so. Before that though I have a look and see who posted it, if it is someone with a prettly low post count (say under 100) then I will try and make the comments more jolly...so that is doesnt seem like I am 'ripping it' - if it is a name I know I will generally be more 'honest' and pick out any minor bits too.

But overall I only tend to comment on photos that capture my interest in the first place. I would love to be able to comment on every photo posted, but there just isnt the time...and I am probably one of the people on here the most (it is generally open in the background while I am working).

On the other hand, if a photo is in one of the critique sections then I will generally try and leave an honest critique of what I like and what I would do different....no matter what the shot is. I really like the anonymous crit section as I know my comments are normally based on the original poster.

(hands are starting to ache now!)

Interesting thread though :) and it is interesting that some people dont feel they have enough expertise to comment, which is think is entirely fair....and I think getting 'nice shot' from someone reletively new to photography is great :) and then again I do like getting similar comments from people who's photography I respect....so I guess it is just a matter of opinion on what is a good response to your photo. I always like some constructive feedback, but as I have said before I always find I have to be carefull with how I respond to it, so as not to come accross as arrogant in my reply - I have often looked a photo for a long time before I post and any flaws etc I have already spotted...and generally accepted - yet a reply stating that can sometimes be miss-read as arrogance, or so it would seem. And I think that happens to a few other people too.

Ok I have to stop typing as I have written so much now I cant be arsed to read what I have put so it proably makes no sense what so ever :p

Conclusion: I like any comments on my photos - wether it is just a 'nice photo' or a propper good crit or anything in between. I worked out a while ago that on here you dont get many comments for just 'ok' photos - you get helpfull comments on 'bad' shots and some 'wows' and 'nices' on 'great' shots. I still think this place is 100x more helpfull than places like Flickr where a comment generally is just that.

Viva La Talkphotography :) (and stupidly long posts)
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thanks for taking the time to reply in such depth, ive taken alot from what you have had to say. i suppose its alot to do with how long like you say you have been on a site, plus i agree that this place seems to be more helpful than other sites.
 
ldwallis said:
I want to ask people how they decide to crit other peoples work, I see alot of people just saying "nice shots" or "Nice set of images" I wonder if people actually have an opinion of the images?
Its the same at my college, on a crit day people sit around and say "i like them, i think that they work well as a set" HOW?!?
and more importantly why do you think that? do they think that this helps the person showing the work to become a better tog? No it doesnt!
Now im not saying rip peoples work. but have an opinion on it.
I prefer people to say to me "why is that there?" or "what was the concept behind that?" rather than "nice shot"

ok im going to go sit in a corner and rock now.

:bonk:
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Totally agree, although I am guilty of the odd 'nice shot' comment here and there... sorry! :)

The anonymity of the Internet usually gives people 'carte blanche' to say what they want. I think a conscience does play a big part in what is said though.

Adwallis, I'd prefer people to say what they think, simply because it allows the photographer to improve.
 
I think this thread's really nice. Great replies.

Has someone done this gag already? (not read it all). I'll get me coat...:)
 
I must admit I have been put off posting any pictures as yet for fear of the C&Cs or maybe the lack of them!!

I just take photos for fun, photos of things I like and then get my favourites printed out (nowhere fancy just boots lol) then stick them in an album and look at them!

Most of the photos on here are amazingly good and I do feel for us newbies and 'fun' photographers who like what we like, not because its perfect or good.

I am guilty of 'lovely photoing!' usually animals at zoos iv come to know like my own over the years and dont feel 'qualified' to go into details.

Maybe I will take the plunge one day and post a photo or 2. I think it the same on most sites, whatever sort and however friendly, its hard being a newbie when everyone else seems to know what there doing!
 
haha.. have to laugh though.. this thread now has 117 posts...
all this writing could have been put to use saying "nice shot" or even more into actual photo threads :lol::lol:
 
ldwallis said:
yes mr smarty pants [<--edited:p] you missed by a mile, i did say i was guilty of doing it myself, and if you had cared to read other posts i made i was more curious as to what went through peoples minds and how they went about crit'n someone elses work.
Maybe this was so i could offer more from myself?
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:lol:


At least when it's wound up the result is an extra two lines over the norm ... :woot: ... even with the edit ... :shrug: ...


... at least it shows you are already offering more now ... :naughty:








Seriously though ... :suspect: ... a forum like this growing so fast with a huge number of new members in a relatively short time has to accept threads like this are bound to get repeated time and again and it will not get everything right all of the time ... FACT ... :D


Whilst it certainly does no real harm I have to say, having experienced a few such threads, and despite all the well intentioned talk and bravado that it actually doesn't do a whole heap of good either.

People either want to just share their images for whatever reason they may have or they really do want critical commentary ... they must just make sure the image is in the right place so we all know what the expectation is ... and, if it is just a 'nice' comment, then take it as compliment someone spent time looking at and commenting on your image ... ;)


And don't take life too seriously whatever ... :D


:p
 
Zookeeper said:
I must admit I have been put off posting any pictures as yet for fear of the C&Cs or maybe the lack of them!!

I just take photos for fun, photos of things I like and then get my favourites printed out (nowhere fancy just boots lol) then stick them in an album and look at them!

Most of the photos on here are amazingly good and I do feel for us newbies and 'fun' photographers who like what we like, not because its perfect or good.

I am guilty of 'lovely photoing!' usually animals at zoos iv come to know like my own over the years and dont feel 'qualified' to go into details.

Maybe I will take the plunge one day and post a photo or 2. I think it the same on most sites, whatever sort and however friendly, its hard being a newbie when everyone else seems to know what there doing!
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This is the saddest post in this thread! Something to think about when we're taking ourselves quite so seriously.
 
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