crit'in others work *mini rant*

[ldwallis]

I want to ask people how they decide to crit other peoples work, I see alot of people just saying "nice shots" or "Nice set of images" I wonder if people actually have an opinion of the images?
Its the same at my college, on a crit day people sit around and say "i like them, i think that they work well as a set" HOW?!?
and more importantly why do you think that? do they think that this helps the person showing the work to become a better tog? No it doesnt!
Now im not saying rip peoples work. but have an opinion on it.
I prefer people to say to me "why is that there?" or "what was the concept behind that?" rather than "nice shot"

ok im going to go sit in a corner and rock now.

:bonk:

 

[Gary]

nice post

 

[IanC_UK]

I would love to have the time to put that much effort into every post i comment on, unfortunately there are just not enough free hours in the day to do it. If i see something i dont like but can help fix i will pipe up, but if i like the shots then Nice set is all you are likely to get, if anything at all !

 

[BRASH]

I thought saying something is nice was an opinion:shrug:. Do we have to be analytical about why we think something? I don't think so. Of course, if you feel the need to do it, then do it. That's what the Forums here for.

 

[Gary]

if i'm in the mood and its about something i feel i know about then i write a long C+C.
sometimes i see something and i just think 'god, that photo is boring' so i dont bother posting at all. If I like it but for no particular reason then I say so.
If i really hate it then i will say so too. But its not often I hate a photo. In fact if a photo makes you hate it then in a lot of ways its a pretty good photo!

 

[ldwallis]

I would love to have the time to put that much effort into every post i comment on, unfortunately there are just not enough free hours in the day to do it. If i see something i dont like but can help fix i will pipe up, but if i like the shots then Nice set is all you are likely to get, if anything at all !

fair enough, btw this was based on genuine curiousity too, i just had a neighbour over my house and he was asking me how i go about thinking when it comes to other peoples images, then i got thinking about what i'd seen and heard, then we had a whole debate on the subject.

 

[mobilevirgin]

Its a never ending problem on here. And I don't think there's an answer. I try not to make "nice post" type comments (although sometimes I do). The real issue, I think, is that it takes time and effort to offer constructive crit (good or bad) and sometimes I neither have the time nor the inclination to do so. If I've got something useful to say, then I will. If I haven't then I pass on by.

Also, I think its harder to say why you like a particular picture. Its usually easier to say why you don't like it, or to pick faults with it.

Try it, and you'll see what I mean.

MV

 

[ldwallis]

if i'm in the mood and its about something i feel i know about then i write a long C+C.
sometimes i see something and i just think 'god, that photo is boring' so i dont bother posting at all. If I like it but for no particular reason then I say so.
If i really hate it then i will say so too. But its not often I hate a photo. In fact if a photo makes you hate it then in a lot of ways its a pretty good photo!

see this is the kinda thing i was after, thats interesting to me, its a good way to look at it too, but then often a bad image is just a bad image right?

the other day in my crit a girl said about a lads work "they sit well as a set" now there was 6 images and 4 did actually go well together, but the other 2 didnt, now what i wanted to ask was is it right for everyone to sit there and not say anything even though it was blatantly obvious they didnt sit well as a group?

 

[ldwallis]

Its a never ending problem on here. And I don't think there's an answer. I try not to make "nice post" type comments (although sometimes I do). The real issue, I think, is that it takes time and effort to offer constructive crit (good or bad) and sometimes I neither have the time nor the inclination to do so. If I've got something useful to say, then I will. If I haven't then I pass on by.

Also, I think its harder to say why you like a particular picture. Its usually easier to say why you don't like it, or to pick faults with it.

Try it, and you'll see what I mean.

MV

ohh i'm sure ive done it myself too, but i want to get out of that habit, 100%, i think at the moment its just like a fall back phrase that people say (and i inc myself) when they cant think of anything (good or bad) to say.

 

[ldwallis]

I thought saying something is nice was an opinion:shrug:. Do we have to be analytical about why we think something? I don't think so. Of course, if you feel the need to do it, then do it. That's what the Forums here for.

i think you missed my point.

 

[Gary]

i think some people (including myself) often dont like criticising a shot that they know they couldnt do themselves.

 

[BRASH]

i think you missed my point.

How?

 

[ldwallis]

How?

because i wanted to know how people come up with what to say. maybe i didnt put that across very well?

 

[BRASH]

because i wanted to know how people come up with what to say. maybe i didnt put that across very well?

Maybe not. I thought you were asking why people just said things like 'nice pic' and didn't explain why they thought that:shrug: Anyway off to bed noo.

 

[ldwallis]

Maybe not. I thought you were asking why people just said things like 'nice pic' and didn't explain why they thought that:shrug: Anyway off to bed noo.

yea i probably got carried away, Niiiiiiiight!

 

[Toothie]

I will say nice shot if i like the image but im not really sure what it is that makes me like it, or if its a well taken image that the subject of which i don't find interesting. For examples i'm not really interested in cars, so the images don't do much for me but i can appreciate if there well taken. If i know what i like about it i will say so. If i don't like an image i will say why.

 

[Trev Rich]

with such a massive forum its hard to comment on all pics.
I would rather a "nice pic" comment than no comment at all..
So many threads get missed with no comments good or bad. Now thats more of an issue

 

[petemc]

Welcome to the internet. All the forums I've been on are the same. I think I say that every time one of these posts appears.

 

[CT]

Personally, I look at a shot first of all from a technical and compositional point of view and might comment on either of those two issues. There's that further rather intangible aesthetic quality which it's so hard to quantify and which will vary from person to person anyway.

Sometimes a shot is just a 'nice shot' and I may well say that - there's nothing worse than seeing shots posted with no comment at all. If certain people on the board said 'nice shot' about one of mine I'd feel that it was indeed a nice shot, as they'd be the first to tell me if they thought it wasn't.

You make a good point actually, but writing in depth critiques is time consuming, and as always, there just aren't enough people on the board doing it.

 

[ldwallis]

I will say nice shot if i like the image but im not really sure what it is that makes me like it, or if its a well taken image that the subject of which i don't find interesting. For examples i'm not really interested in cars, so the images don't do much for me but i can appreciate if there well taken. If i know what i like about it i will say so. If i don't like an image i will say why.

So from your point of view its easier for you to crit an image if the subject is something you have an interest in, cool, so with that i suppose i should take more from the people that are in the same field as myself, thanks

with such a massive forum its hard to comment on all pics.
I would rather a "nice pic" comment than no comment at all..
So many threads get missed with no comments good or bad. Now thats more of an issue

this is a good point, i think people should try and make a comment atleast.

Welcome to the internet. All the forums I've been on are the same. I think I say that every time one of these posts appears.

haha spose it happens alot, although this is one of the most busiest of uk tog sites ive come across.

Personally, I look at a shot first of all from a technical and compositional point of view and might comment on either of those two issues. There's that further rather intangible aesthetic quality which it's so hard to quantify and which will vary from person to person anyway.

Sometimes a shot is just a 'nice shot' and I may well say that - there's nothing worse than seeing shots posted with no comment at all. If certain people on the board said 'nice shot' about one of mine I'd feel that it was indeed a nice shot, as they'd be the first to tell me if they thought it wasn't.

You make a good point actually, but writing in depth critiques is time consuming, and as always, there just aren't enough people on the board doing it.

the first point you make is something i try to do, i like to look at the image from a technical and compositional view and see if i could improve it in anyway, in camera or otherwise.
plus in the second part of your post you make a good point about who it is thats making the "nice shot" post. thats something ive never thought about either.

 

[petemc]

haha spose it happens alot, although this is one of the most busiest of uk tog sites ive come across.

I've been around for a while on forums and you get to notice the trends. Thankfully this forum isn't as bad as some

 

[CT]

We can tend to forget too how devastating it can be for newcomers to have their images analytically dismantled, and often what's needed there is a mixture of encouragement and a gentle nudge in the right direction.

It's interesting that people are a lot more prepared to be forthright in their views in the Anonymous Critique Forum, as it's clearly what the author is seeking, but I'm sure a lot of it stems from the fact that they have no idea who the poster is.

 

[ldwallis]

We can tend to forget too how devastating it can be for newcomers to have their images analytically dismantled, and often what's needed there is a mixture of encouragement and a gentle nudge in the right direction.

It's interesting that people are a lot more prepared to be forthright in their views in the Anonymous Critique Forum, as it's clearly what the author is seeking, but I'm sure a lot of it stems from the fact that they have no idea who the poster is.

o0o ive not posted in there yet.

 

[King_Boru]

The usual 'nice set' and 'nice shot' (further to be known as 'nsns') appear in almost every picture post at the moment. I'm like you, I ask myself 'why?' & 'what?' makes it a 'nsns'? One of my first, probably most bitter thoughts, is because if you were to challenge the 'nsns' the reply would be an uneducated analytical mumble jumble of words which is supposed to resemble a critical analysis because the 'nsns' commenter doesn't have the knowledge to break a good or bad photograph down? I know, I am bitter.

Is it because people feel the need to comment on a picture because it either has no other comments or does 'nsns' crop up because somebody has said it is a bad photograph? Are we trying to be too nice? Not trying to upset your forum buddies because you want to be in the (CT your going to hate me now) 'clique'?

Art to me has always been about expressing yourself. Either through your own work or critiquing somebody else's work. Whether you like it or not, because at the end of the day, we all know what we like and don't like. This doesn't mean we have to provide a 200 word analysis of every photograph we view on the forum. A short, simple, straightforward 20 words will almost certainly do. If you don't have the time to leave a decent reply then come back later when you do. The thread isn't going to disappear.

I think one of the major problems is that a lot of individuals nowadays want a pat on the back for everything, even pressing a shutter button. As soon as that pat on the back turns into critique (thats good critique [which can be bad too] before somebody throws that one in) it becomes offensive. The natural reaction is to turn on the ear steamers and open up a red faced argument. This turns a lot of people away who just don't want to deal with the red faced stubborn individuals who don't want to learn or listen. I have seen and been in these arguments on here.

We need to express ourselves, this is a photography forum, which is art. Being able to take critique is an art in itself. If we all learned how to do it I think everyone would benefit. This will lead to posts without the typical 'nsns' sprayed all over them.

It's interesting that people are a lot more prepared to be forthright in their views in the Anonymous Critique Forum, as it's clearly what the author is seeking, but I'm sure a lot of it stems from the fact that they have no idea who the poster is.

That helps back my statement up! Thanks CT.

King.

 

[F-Stop]

Ok. I do the "I like these a lot" posts probably more than I'd care to admit. One reason being is that I honestly don't feel I have the technical know-how or education to compliment (or knock) a shot with all the reasons why. If I like an image, I want that person to at least know that someone appreciates it.

Another reason is the fact that I don't always know why I like a shot. lol. I just do.

I rarely comment on shots that I don't like and I know that's horrible. Noone will get better if they don't know what they are doing wrong technically. But again, I don't feel I have the right to negatively critique things about a photo because of my lack of knowledge.

I do agree with you, though. I think that if someone likes or dislikes a shot, it would be nice to know why.... But then you have people like me, who might not even know why in the first place. I am working on that though and try to give an unbiased opinion on shots.

 

[AlanoDale]

As a total newbie (2 months) to photography, i had this site recommended to me by a friend, and i have checked the forums probably ever other day since i joined.

Unfortunately as F-stop says, i Too do not know enough about the technical side of photography yet for my comments on this to be any help to the origianal poster or anyone else reading for that matter.
I therefore leave my comments to the "I may not know about art but I know what I like" critia. If I can imagine a shot hanging on someones wall or being used for any other reason or it brings some kind of reaction to me I will comment, and yes that comment will probably be "nice pics" or "I love it" with further comment if something really pops out at me.
I do this for both encouragement for us noobs and apprieciation to the more established togs on here who have spent a lot of time, effort and no doubt money to get the shots. Sorry i'm starting to ramble.

The usual 'nice set' and 'nice shot' (further to be known as 'nsns') appear in almost every picture post at the moment. I'm like you, I ask myself 'why?' & 'what?' makes it a 'nsns'? One of my first, probably most bitter thoughts, is because if you were to challenge the 'nsns' the reply would be an uneducated analytical mumble jumble of words which is supposed to resemble a critical analysis because the 'nsns' commenter doesn't have the knowledge to break a good or bad photograph down? I know, I am bitter.

Does this mean that only those togs who have done courses or have spent a long long time self teaching and know almost everything about photography should be permitted to comment in these forums?? If so, or if I have missed the point totally with my earlier comments, i will happily wind my neck in, become a lurker and continue to learn from the photos posted and the excellent tutorials on this site (in silence).

 

[King_Boru]

The usual 'nice set' and 'nice shot' (further to be known as 'nsns') appear in almost every picture post at the moment. I'm like you, I ask myself 'why?' & 'what?' makes it a 'nsns'? One of my first, probably most bitter thoughts, is because if you were to challenge the 'nsns' the reply would be an uneducated analytical mumble jumble of words which is supposed to resemble a critical analysis because the 'nsns' commenter doesn't have the knowledge to break a good or bad photograph down? I know, I am bitter.

Does this mean that only those togs who have done courses or have spent a long long time self teaching and know almost everything about photography should be permitted to comment in these forums?? If so, or if I have missed the point totally with my earlier comments, i will happily wind my neck in, become a lurker and continue to learn from the photos posted and the excellent tutorials on this site (in silence).

No. My first paragraph is trying to say some people 'bull****' a critique. Where it doesn't make sense, a bad critique, as in unprofessional. I am not trying to imply that if you are new, then don't comment, not at all.

Going back to this:

Art to me has always been about expressing yourself. Either through your own work or critiquing somebody else's work. Whether you like it or not, because at the end of the day, we all know what we like and don't like. This doesn't mean we have to provide a 200 word analysis of every photograph we view on the forum. A short, simple, straightforward 20 words will almost certainly do. If you don't have the time to leave a decent reply then come back later when you do. The thread isn't going to disappear.

Take note of the bold letters.

 

[howler]

I feel i do not know enough to offer a factual critique but i do say if i like the shot....i myself in the the very early stages of learning, hope in time i can offer more, but just not confident enough in my own ability yet to really comment on others, please be patient with us

 

[King_Boru]

I feel i do not know enough to offer a factual critique but i do say if i like the shot....i myself in the the very early stages of learning, hope in time i can offer more, but just not confident enough in my own ability yet to really comment on others, please be patient with us

You should comment though. Everybody has that right. A short, simple straightforward: "I like this photograph because the sun sits just high enough in the frame." or "I like the way the lines move up the image".

Providing critique is all about asking yourself questions why you like or dislike something. Answer those questions in a post.

Its bed time.

 

[Steep]

i'm with ian-c here, I'll help where I can but there's not enough time to do justice to every post you read, for those who want more, well that's why the in depth crit form was created.

 

[blinkerz]

i dont know art but i know what i like, so it can be hard to say why a picture is good :]

 

[HIMUPNORTH]

This thread is an example of threads that I arrive at and everything has already been said and I feel I have very little in the way of critical comment to add.

The problem is that I want to acknowledge the value of the thread.

So what does one do? ....... you guessed it........

Nice thread!

 

[scraggs]

Being guilty of this myself sometimes, If I post "nice shot" it's usually because thats what it is and I don't have time to analyse why it is, surely it's better to post something to compliment the shooters effort rather than nothing especially for newcomers to the hobby and the forums, If it's a stunning shot I will try to say why same as if it's not I will say why I think it isn't.
I decided ages ago I would only comment in the macro forum where I spent most of my time, because as this place has got busier it is hard to keep up with the posts, but occasionaly a post comes along in other areas that takes my eye and it will get the complimentary "nice post" remark.

Oh hang on whats this
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=616177&postcount=2

 

[EdinburghGary]

I'm especcially guilty of the "nice shot" replies - and I do it for a few reasons.

1: When I was a new comer to this forum only a few months back, I was terrified to post my first shots. I was then amazed at the response. I got lots of "nice shot", and got a lot of crit too, and I also got a debate on whether I was trully a new comer or not which was an ego boost to say the least The point is, the posts helped me realise that I can enjoy taking pics, but more importantly, others can enjoy viewing them. That makes my hobby EXTRA special to me. I think the nice posts to a newcomer are invaluable for that reason - keep going buddy, you are doing great.

2: So I have been here 6 months, but I have only really fallen into the "addicted to photography" category a few month back, and I am only now really starting to care about what I shoot. I am probably at a very vulnerable stage as my shots should be improving, and people will be more relaxed giving negating crit - yet I still long the "am I doing allright?" encouragement. Without it, I would be worrying all my shots were complete naff. I don't mind the "nice shot" reply as it's a small acknowledgement from my peers that I am perhaps continuing in the right direction. I also love the more in depth replies, and the proper crit, but appreciate the time involved.

Sorry for rambling!! I think all I am trying to say, getting a bit of Kudos for taking a decent shot is the virtual currency which helps me keep going with an often difficult to grasp hobby at times.

BTW, Nice Thread, and Nice Shots so far - you have a REAL talent and excellent understanding of your hobby.

That wasn't so bad was it? All true too!!

Gary.

 

[haggisuk]

This thread is an example of threads that I arrive at and everything has already been said and I feel I have very little in the way of critical comment to add.

The problem is that I want to acknowledge the value of the thread.

So what does one do? ....... you guessed it........

Nice thread!

I think for someone like myself who has little understanding of the subtle things that make or break an image I feel reluctant to try say too much.

If you cook me a curry I will eat it and say if it was nice, but I won't be able to say "oh that would taste better if it had a pinch more saffron in it".

With the shoe on the other foot I would like to have the c&c given to me with both barrels because if you tell me it's crap and why it's crap that will give me the determination to get it right.

 

[marky_h]

Posting volume has increased significantly even in the short time I've been here, which means that there just isn't time to write a detailed response to that many photo threads. I endeavour to comment on as many as I can, and to say why I like something, rather than just put 'Nice shot'. I don't buy the theory that you shouldn't comment on a photo that you couldn't have taken yourself: either the image pleases you or it doesn't.

 

[Venomator]

Now im not saying rip peoples work. but have an opinion on it.
I prefer people to say to me "why is that there?" or "what was the concept behind that?" rather than "nice shot"

Oh you do do you ... ... then why don't you PWYP ... :shrug:

Brilliant, huge fan of this image.

Is this really any different to that which you are ranting against ... really ...

Nice shot, would be better without the chromatic aberration.

Aha ... so you do use that nice word then ...

#5 - love it, i might play around with the crop though.

What about the other 6 images ...

great shots mate.

OK ... so you substitute great for nice ... big deal ... :shrug:

Loving the last one Dan,

No comment on the others again though ...

i like it how it is, wouldnt change anything. nice shot.

That nice word again ...


Do we really need to go on ... ...


In fact I am not sure I came across many responses by your good self where you did actually fulfil the reason for your burst pipe in the first place ... perhaps I am missing something ...





Nice OP though ...





Counter-rant over ...

 

[fletch5]

i have absolutely no technical knowledge at all, but from a few early posts i realised that your opinion does count, and it is nice being first to comment on a pic, only to have the more experienced agree in the next post, it is a way in learning to analyze your own shots as well. if you think the picture could be improved and know how to, then say it, if it doesnt work, then you lose nothing but you might give them a better picture.

 

[Steep]

Ven - was that really neccessary?

Trev -

So many threads get missed with no comments good or bad. Now thats more of an issue

That comment has no basis in fact. A click of the Unanswered posts link up there ^ shows a total of 20 (yes just 20) unanswered threads, only 5 of which are more than 4 days old. When you think how many threads are made each day that is a fantastic example of why these forums are so great.

 

[Trev Rich]

Ven - was that really neccessary?

Trev -



That comment has no basis in fact. A click of the Unanswered posts link up there ^ shows a total of 20 (yes just 20) unanswered threads, only 5 of which are more than 4 days old. When you think how many threads are made each day that is a fantastic example of why these forums are so great.

good point.... but have to admit, I have been putting alot more thought into my posts since this thread.