Apple Refusing Court Order to Unlock Killer's iPhone

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Ricardodaforce

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Apple will contest a court order to help FBI investigators access data on the phone belonging to San Bernardino gunman Syed Rizwan Farook.

The company had been ordered to help the FBI circumvent security software on Farook's iPhone, which the FBI said contained crucial information.

Story here.

What do you think of this? My view is that I am with Apple.
 
I think if the FBI could have done it they would have just got on with it and I think what this story highlights is really good encryption is just that really good.

I think a criminal however could or should lose that right just like a search warrant so in this instance I am with the yanks.
 
It's possible that Apple can't do what the FBI want but won't admit it. However, if they CAN, I think they should.
 
What Apple have said is they cannot overcome the encryption however I think they can overcome the password/wipe after 10 goes so the FBI can brute force the phone. Also they have asked apple for a better method of entering the passcode rather than manually.

given its a 4 digit pin there are only 10,000 combinations.

also bear in mind the subject here the worst kind of terrorist, imagine if this fight was going on in a UK court?
 
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I am pretty sure that apple could and should create the ability to open this phone and then destroy it in one swoop, apple are grandstanding and invoking the emotions of yanks with all the stars and freedoms guff.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Yeah because if they create it and hand it to the FBI, the FBI will definitely remove the software once they've used it this once.
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I would imagine the deal would be bring the phone to us and sit on one side while we do the stuff.
here is the data on a USB stick now b****r off.
 
Mr Bump said:
I am pretty sure that apple could and should create the ability to open this phone and then destroy it in one swoop, apple are grandstanding and invoking the emotions of yanks with all the stars and freedoms guff.
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its a little naive to suggest the details of the creation of such a tool/OS could not be leaked by an apple employee or FBI agent.

it is far safer to not create the backdoor to start with.
 
Nod said:
It's possible that Apple can't do what the FBI want but won't admit it. However, if they CAN, I think they should.
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Apple says They cannot do it and generally people believe this. But FBI want them to install a specially constructed firmware update specific to this phone that will remove the limits on the PIN re-tries. Trouble is if the phone is set to require PIN for updates then that will not work. Problem with brute force cracking is that after 3 failures the time interval gets longer, an hour between retries I think and it may be set to delete all data after 10 failed attempts.

Many pool think if It is crack able the FBI have already done it and are using this as a ploy to make people believe their iPhones are safe!

BTW this is a work issued phone and probably has no evidence on it because the FBI have been unable to find their personal phones or the hard drive from their computer - allegedly, may be another ploy.
 
neil_g said:
its a little naive to suggest the details of the creation of such a tool/OS could not be leaked by an apple employee or FBI agent.

it is far safer to not create the backdoor to start with.
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depends how far up your own arse you are about encryption on phones. (not intended to be a personal statement)

dead patriots or leaky iphones, could go on all day.
I store nothing on my phone apart from shopping lists, mucky texts to my wife.
 
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Mr Bump said:
depends how far up your own arse you are about encryption on phones. (not intended to be a personal statement)

dead patriots or leaky iphones, could go on all day.
I store nothing on my phone apart from shopping lists, mucky texts to my wife.
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not really the point what you store on the device. it sets a dangerous precedent for gov snooping.

this isnt north korea we live in.
 
neil_g said:
not really the point what you store on the device. it sets a dangerous precedent for gov snooping.

this isnt north korea we live in.
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it maybe does set a precedent but do you want terrorists to be protected by this encryption?

and North Korea comparison....really?
 
Mr Bump said:
it maybe does set a precedent but do you want terrorists to be protected by this encryption?

and North Korea comparison....really?
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yeah really.

its not about protecting terrorists, its about protecting the many many many law abiding citizens privacy. its also about setting an unacceptable precedent of creating back doors in security protocols that we all rely on day to day.
 
But really.... what are they going to find on your phone that could damage you in any way, Im sure they arent interested in your data unless you are a suspect?

I understand the security argument for protection from non gov agencies though.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
So you wouldn't mind me coming into your house without permission and have a good old rifle through all of your data, just because I can?
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Are you the police? Am I a suspect doing something dodgy? No, youre Ricardodaforce from TP, in that case, yes I would mind.
 
twist said:
Are you the police? Am I a suspect doing something dodgy? No, youre Ricardoforce from TP, in that case, yes I would mind.
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Well let's see, we are talking about a country that incarcerates people without trial, illegally kidnaps foreign nationals and illegally tortures captives. Not the sort of people I would trust even if you would.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Well let's see, we are talking about a country that incarcerates people without trial, illegally kidnaps foreign nationals and illegally tortures captives. Not the sort of people I would trust even if you would.
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I never said what goes on is right. I said there would be nothing of interest on my phone.
 
twist said:
Only if the back door doesnt have a big enough lock or the locks dont get changed regularly.
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at the end of the day its a weakness in a security protocol. there are people out there that will stop at nothing to exploit that no matter how big the lock is or how often they're changed.

its far safer not to even make a hole for the door in the first place.
 
neil_g said:
at the end of the day its a weakness in a security protocol. there are people out there that will stop at nothing to exploit that no matter how big the lock is or how often they're changed.

its far safer not to even make a hole for the door in the first place.
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Like I said, I understand the point about the bad guys getting the keys but doesnt every form of encryption eventually get broken anyway?
 
So if something happened to a family member of friend and the police wannted access to a suspect`s phone some think that access should be denied. Really?
 
twist said:
Only if the back door doesnt have a big enough lock or the locks dont get changed regularly.
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unless of course the company that makes the door provides keys to any government agency that asks
 
twist said:
but doesnt every form of encryption eventually get broken anyway?
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depends how much time you can wait.

off the top of my head to brute force 128 bit encryption would take billions of years?

edit: may have been millions. for a 128 bit key there are 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 possible combinations so depends how fast your computer is. but still many many many years.

double edit: 1,440,000,000 or 1.44 billion years. essentially its easier to steal the keys or have a master key..
 
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"Good morning FBI."
"Your mission FBI, should you decide to accept it is to find evidence that this man is a killer." As always, should you or any of your agents be caught or killed, the US Government will disavow any knowledge of your actions."
"This iPhone will self-destruct in five more tries. Good luck,"
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Well let's see, we are talking about a country that incarcerates people without trial, illegally kidnaps foreign nationals and illegally tortures captives. Not the sort of people I would trust even if you would.
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You think they're the only ones?
 
If there is potential evidence on the phone pertaining to a criminal offence then it needs to be obtained. Forensic evidence is not just about proving guilt but also eliminating innocent parties. It search for the truth. It would appear that this is completely lost on most people on here !!!
 
Nod said:
It's possible that Apple can't do what the FBI want but won't admit it. However, if they CAN, I think they should.
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More close to the truth! If you ask me.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
If there is potential evidence on the phone pertaining to a criminal offence then it needs to be obtained. Forensic evidence is not just about proving guilt but also eliminating innocent parties. It search for the truth. It would appear that this is completely lost on most people on here !!!
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not at all. i appreciate evidence needs to be gathered, but at what cost? is risking everyone elses privacy in the process worth it? im sure if royal mail and BT turned around and said there was a backdoor into their infrastructure allowing potentially anyone to read mail and listen to calls there would be hell to pay.

there have already been warnings at the ever decreasing level of data security in the tech world.
 
neil_g said:
depends. like i said if nobody at apple genuinely has the ability to decode the encryption (maybe they mashed the keyboard for the passphrase :D ) as I said it would take 1.4 billion years to decrypt a 128bit key.
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It would be software to negate that though and there lies the problem, once its written the chance of it being leaked would be great, putting iPhone security in serious risk.
 
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