anyone else hate cyclists

Just saw this commercial and it made me think of this thread.

 
cambsno said:
WTF!!! If there is a cycle path I will always go on that as it means I will be a lot safer and not get hit by a car. But you get these idiots slowing up traffic and putting their safety at risk.
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Steve Smith said:
I generally agree but there is one example here which I will not use. The pavement alongside a main road has been designated as a cycle path. If I am cycling along it with the road to my left and another cyclists passes me going in the opposite direction, this puts me close to the kerb to let him pass. It only needs a little bit of a wobble to go onto the road and into the path of oncoming traffic.
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big soft moose said:
you want to speak to the authorities concerned - the best practice minimum width for a shared use path is 3m - 120cm is far too narrow , and i'm very suprised planning for the upgrade was granted.
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This example of a shared use path near where I live has left me flabbergasted since it was put in circa 1995 as part of Route 77 of the London Cycle Network.

It's on the Brighton Road in Sutton, Surrey and is a total of 170m in length, running between the junction with Homeland Drive and The Downsway.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Brighton Rd, Sutton SM2 5RJ/@51.3505794,-0.1938462,584m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x4875e2de9035f9ef:0xb8b71b91e83e749f

Heading north, we start off at the junction with Homeland Drive, where it begins and is probably about as good as it gets



It proceeds past a signal controlled crossing (more on that later) and on through a lamp post, where, shortly afterward, you are expected to give way to cars exiting the driveway into some flats.



Another couple of metres onward, and the pedestrian side of the "shared path" shrinks to an 8-inch wide strip.



About 50 metres on, there's a side road to cross. So, naturally, you have to give way to traffic on that. Meanwhile, were you to actually ride on the road you're riding alongside instead of this cycle route of city-wide importance, the priorities would be reversed.



[continues]
 
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The path continues onward for another 70m or so, both sides of the segregation sharing a pavement about 1.5m wide, till the cycle portion does an abrupt right turn into a dropped kerb



Cyclists who are so lacking in confidence to cycle on the Brighton Road that they would actually use this path are, apparently, expected to make their way over the busy road on this uncontrolled crossing instead of the controlled one they passed a hundred or so metres back.



There is a refuge island, with a convenient lamp post to cling on to if you're worried you might be swept away by passing cars.

Once you've finished dodging the traffic, make another abrupt turn straight into the tree which occupies the entire width of the designated cycle path.

If you do manage to avoid it, take care not to collide with the lamp post on the other side of the tree (but try not to fall into the busy road you've just crossed while evading either of them).

The path finishes as sweetly as it began, requiring you to give way to two lanes of traffic to get back onto the correct side of the carriageway to continue on LCN Route 77.



Of course, if you were to dismount, and walk across as a pedestrian, you would at least have priority over cars turning into the junction under rule 206 of the Highway Code, but the Give Way lines at the pavement edge deny you that if you remain riding your bike.

It's been like this for nearly 20 years, and I think I tried using it once in all that time; for kicks to see how awful it is. I will never use it again.

Frankly, I prefer to remain on the main carriageway, where I can more easily avoid conflict with traffic emerging from the side roads and drives; where drivers are perhaps more likely to be looking for me and to be more likely to see me than if I were on the pavement.

Sadly, this is not atypical of what passes for 'cycle facilities' in the UK, and it's hardly surprising that they are often treated with disdain by those expected to use them.
 
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neil_g said:
Lets ban cycling in the new forset then. Oh wait lets not forget the revenue generated by the tourism.

It's one of the small prices to pay for living in a tourist hot spot ;)

(new forest'er born and raised)
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or the revenue lost when the forest becomes a no go area for others as per Burley becoming a ghost town when the spring wiggle event held Next weekend two major events will be using the same roads so if one event causes mass disruption........of course I should avoid the area or better still why don't I move out of the area
 
kennethwfd said:
or the revenue lost when the forest becomes a no go area for others as per Burley becoming a ghost town when the spring wiggle event held Next weekend two major events will be using the same roads so if one event causes mass disruption........of course I should avoid the area or better still why don't I move out of the area
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Bad example, Burley is HEAVING all summer and this time of year is getting in to off season anyway. Their trade has always been MASSIVELY seasonal. Plus I wonder how many of those in the cycling event come back to the area at a later date that wouldn't have if they didn't cycle through it. I think its a small price to pay to get people into the area spending money.

We could also apply your logic to beaulieu when there's an event on at the motor museum pretty much every weekend during the spring/summer when hoards of minis/vw/Porsche/customs/etc descend on the place. But I don't see anyone hating those partaking in their events..

And yes if tourism footfall isn't agreeable with you then the NF probably isn't for you. Personally I have more beef with motorists that slam on the anchors and abandon the car in the road to take a photo of a pony/donkey/cow :D
 
neil_g said:
Bad example, Burley is HEAVING all summer and this time of year is getting in to off season anyway. Their trade has always been MASSIVELY seasonal. Plus I wonder how many of those in the cycling event come back to the area at a later date that wouldn't have if they didn't cycle through it. I think its a small price to pay to get people into the area spending money.

We could also apply your logic to beaulieu when there's an event on at the motor museum pretty much every weekend during the spring/summer when hoards of minis/vw/Porsche/customs/etc descend on the place. But I don't see anyone hating those partaking in their events..

And yes if tourism footfall isn't agreeable with you then the NF probably isn't for you. Personally I have more beef with motorists that slam on the anchors and abandon the car in the road to take a photo of a pony/donkey/cow :D
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so where do I state that "tourism footfall isn't agreeable" IN FACT I rely on it as a major source of my income!
 
neil_g said:
that is what i gathered you were suggesting from that statement.
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no, that is what is said several times online in response to statements such as "The New Forest is not a sutiable location to hold regular large scale organised cycling events"

I'm surprised the New Forest show hasn't been mentioned yet.

Those attending the Beaulieu events surely have as much right to enjoy the glorious people's New Forest as they see fit. They don't turn up unannounced and drive en masse down sinlge track roads

In fact, it is becoming increasingly difficult toi go anywhere at weekends without encouintering a cycle event

And of course, you, like all other participants don't drive your own motor vehicle to attend any such event. It is the holier than thou attitude toward others who usually need to drive in connection with their daily business and the fact that there is no control over the size, or frequency of these events which is causing objections
 
saw on the news this morning that someone has disrupted a cycle race by throwing black painted drawing pins on the road seems like the revolution has started .ROFPMSL
 
kennethwfd said:
no, that is what is said several times online in response to statements such as "The New Forest is not a sutiable location to hold regular large scale organised cycling events"
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if the NF with over 100 miles of off road cycling is unsuitable then please tell me where is..

Those attending the Beaulieu events surely have as much right to enjoy the glorious people's New Forest as they see fit. They don't turn up unannounced and drive en masse down sinlge track roads
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indeed they do and that was my point. and the cycling events are hardly unannounced (especially with the local media attention). otherwise you wouldnt be moaning about them coming to a village near you soon ;)

And of course, you, like all other participants don't drive your own motor vehicle to attend any such event. It is the holier than thou attitude toward others who usually need to drive in connection with their daily business and the fact that there is no control over the size, or frequency of these events which is causing objections
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oh so many assumptions. you know what they say about those :)
 
the black fox said:
saw on the news this morning that someone has disrupted a cycle race by throwing black painted drawing pins on the road seems like the revolution has started .ROFPMSL
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yes that happened at a recent local one in the NF. the police are taking a dim view, and as they should. not only is that dangerous to cyclists also the local wildlife/animals.

i hope they find who is responsible and charge them with intent to injure (or whatever the correct term is).
 
neil_g said:
yes that happened at a recent local one in the NF. the police are taking a dim view, and as they should. not only is that dangerous to cyclists also the local wildlife/animals.

i hope they find who is responsible and charge them with intent to injure (or whatever the correct term is).
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I heard/read one cyclist who got a puncture as a result of the pins was hitting speeds of 50mph. Could easily kill someone, its up there with throwing objects off flyovers.
 
Musicman said:
Sadly, this is not atypical of what passes for 'cycle facilities' in the UK, and it's hardly surprising that they are often treated with disdain by those expected to use them.
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That escapes the recomendation as its not shared use - the users are alledgedly segregated by the white line (of course in practice thats b*****ks but its sufficient for the planners) , however that only appliesto redesignation of pavements and wouldnt be allowed for a new construction per the OP
 
Mattyd said:
I heard/read one cyclist who got a puncture as a result of the pins was hitting speeds of 50mph. Could easily kill someone, its up there with throwing objects off flyovers.
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I completely agree!

It is absolutely ridiculous that a cyclist can do that sort of speed.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
I completely agree!

It is absolutely ridiculous that a cyclist can do that sort of speed.
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Not really! I've been pointing a radar gun out the van window ...





... and I've found, if I hit them hard enough, I can get cyclists up to 65!! :whistle: :exit:
 
I hit 109.5mph in the weekend. Took me 12.4 seconds. Didn't hit any cyclists though, it was good that they weren't allowed on the road.
 
neil_g said:
yes that happened at a recent local one in the NF. the police are taking a dim view, and as they should. not only is that dangerous to cyclists also the local wildlife/animals.

i hope they find who is responsible and charge them with intent to injure (or whatever the correct term is).
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But despite electronic timing, medals awarded, lists of participant's timings published, online posts and that those involved in competitive cycling use sportives for training....these events are not races!

Actually there have been two seperate incidents of tacks placed on roads, removal of serveral signs and slurry dumped on the road to sabotage events

Now for some more "assumptions". The National Park authority (NPA) in response drew up a voluantary charter regarding these events. Not one concession has been made especially regarding the size and frequency of these events, so the NPA has now thrown out its own charter. Pressure is now mounting on the NPA to excersise its powers to legislate regarding protection of the unique nature of the New Forest, indeed there are some within the cycling industry who have voiced concern that unless the industrry regulates itself it will have regulations forced on it by law

And this is what opponents are pressiing forWhen you appreciate one organisation alone has 4 x 2 day events on the New Forest with an average of 2,000 participants a day at £30 a head, I calculate £480,000 gross Some say this is commercial exploitation

This weekend sees 2 events held on the same roads and given that in the absence of centre line markings participants spread over the full width of the road maybe further sabotage will not be necessary. To make it clear Sunday sees day 2 of a Wiggle event, also a Gridiron event using some of the same narrow lanes in the opposite direction
 
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kennethwfd said:
But despite electronic timing, medals awarded, lists of participant's timings published, online posts and that those involved in competitive cycling use sportives for training....these events are not races!
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Medals are awarded for taking part, there is no gold, silver or bronze - everyone gets one. Timings are important to some (but not all) cyclists who wish to beat, or better previous times. Consider it like a marathon, for the most part many runners might have a target to match or beat, but that's as close to a race it becomes.

The closest sporting cyclists get to road racing is TTs, but they are normally small events of around 20-50 cyclists tops.
 
kennethwfd said:
But despite electronic timing, medals awarded, lists of participant's timings published, online posts and that those involved in competitive cycling use sportives for training....these events are not races!
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im not sure what your point is here or what its referring to.

Actually there have been two seperate incidents of tacks placed on roads, removal of serveral signs and slurry dumped on the road to sabotage events
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yup, have been a few sabotage incidents. i believe protesters have attempted to block the route with people on at least one occasion.

Now for some more "assumptions". The National Park authority (NPA) in response drew up a voluantary charter regarding these events. Not one concession has been made especially regarding the size and frequency of these events, so the NPA has now thrown out its own charter. Pressure is now mounting on the NPA to excersise its powers to legislate regarding protection of the unique nature of the New Forest, indeed there are some within the cycling industry who have voiced concern that unless the industrry regulates itself it will have regulations forced on it by law
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so why arent they enforcing them? surely the organisers need permission before going ahead with events (NFDC/highways agency?).

And this is what opponents are pressiing forWhen you appreciate one organisation alone has 4 x 2 day events on the New Forest with an average of 2,000 participants a day at £30 a head, I calculate £480,000 gross Some say this is commercial exploitation
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well thats assuming that they have no costs such as: givaways with entry (wiggle offer energy bars/drinks/bottles), number boards, ground fees for parking and/or admin areas, cost of first aid cover, insurance, marshalls/security/admin staff, printing of entry packs and postage etc etc. but yes i would like to see a large chunk of any profit put back in to maintaining and making new cycle routes.

This weekend sees 2 events held on the same roads and given that in the absence of centre line markings participants spread over the full width of the road maybe further sabotage will not be necessary. To make it clear Sunday sees day 2 of a Wiggle event, also a Gridiron event using some of the same narrow lanes in the opposite direction
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you have to question who gave them permission (again NFDC/highways agency?) to hold them so close together then surely rather than the event organisers?
 
How come cycle races are permitted on public roads when motor racing is prohibited? And how come speed limits set in place for safety reasons are ignored by the racers? Do the sheep on Dartmoor know that the cyclists are allowed to do far more than the 40MPH blanket limit on the moor? Do the cyclists know just how much damage a sheep does when it gets hit at 50?
 
Nod said:
How come cycle races are permitted on public roads when motor racing is prohibited?
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because they're entirely different things? (i.e. a cyclist isnt going to crash and wipe out nearby housing) although i believe the road racing laws are being looked at with a view to change them (F1 around London anyone :D )

And how come speed limits set in place for safety reasons are ignored by the racers? Do the sheep on Dartmoor know that the cyclists are allowed to do far more than the 40MPH blanket limit on the moor? Do the cyclists know just how much damage a sheep does when it gets hit at 50?
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because there arent any speed limits for cyclists (unless in a Royal Park as noted earlier)?
 
Here's hoping one of them creams into a sheep on the moor then!
 
Byker28i said:
Pretty girls in jodhpurs should be encouraged :D
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THis true, but then so should pretty girls in cycling lycra, and indeed pretty girls in bike leathers ;)
 
Tigger.ufo said:
Poor sheep.......
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Depends what the season is. I know of a couple that ran off after being hit by cars before the limits were in place.
 
Nod said:
Here's hoping one of them creams into a sheep on the moor then!
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Pretty sure you could find a website for that if that's how you get your jollies ;) :lol:
 
neil_g said:
im not sure what your point is here or what its referring to.

Because when anyone labels these events as races there is an angry storm of protests "No, they are not"



yup, have been a few sabotage incidents. i believe protesters have attempted to block the route with people on at least one occasion.



so why arent they enforcing them? surely the organisers need permission before going ahead with events (NFDC/highways agency?).

What is there to enforce? If the event is officially competeitive ie a race, it does need permission. But if your cycle event is something like "charity bike bash" "fun run" you need NO permission from ANY authority to hold it



well thats assuming that they have no costs such as: givaways with entry (wiggle offer energy bars/drinks/bottles), number boards, ground fees for parking and/or admin areas, cost of first aid cover, insurance, marshalls/security/admin staff, printing of entry packs and postage etc etc. but yes i would like to see a large chunk of any profit put back in to maintaining and making new cycle routes.

Of course no business generates 100% profit


you have to question who gave them permission (again NFDC/highways agency?) to hold them so close together then surely rather than the event organisers?
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see above. Neither of these events need permission to go ahead. That is why these events are provoking such reactions because certain events have all the hallmarks of races with a clever lawyer having good RTA knowlege knowing how to exploit loopholes
 
kennethwfd said:
see above. Neither of these events need permission to go ahead.
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I see you mention the NPA but not the local councils, they must get permission from at least them before putting that much volume onto at least the road sections.

That is why these events are provoking such reactions because certain events have all the hallmarks of races with a clever lawyer having good RTA knowlege knowing how to exploit loopholes
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I'm not sure where you are getting that from, the only opposition I've read of locally is due to volume of cyclists. Frankly it's a little sensationalist.
 
In fact ill expand on my last point slightly.

I traversed the NF 2-3 weekends ago, as I live one side of the area and my parents the other, and this coincided with the Macmillan cycle ride.

I believe it started and ended at beaulieu and there was no way to get from A to B without crossing their route a few times.

It was completely without any issue and no major hold ups. There was a steady stream of cyclists but none were causing an issue. And while some were lycra'd up to the max, most were on sub £100 bikes with shopping baskets/panniers/etc. Hardly people wanting to "race".
 
Nod said:
How come cycle races are permitted on public roads when motor racing is prohibited? And how come speed limits set in place for safety reasons are ignored by the racers? Do the sheep on Dartmoor know that the cyclists are allowed to do far more than the 40MPH blanket limit on the moor? Do the cyclists know just how much damage a sheep does when it gets hit at 50?
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I don't believe a single animal has been killed by a cyclist in the new forest. A quick google search tells me 74 horses a year are killed by cars. No idea about sheep/deer.

Also, not a race. More like a marathon than a race.
 
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I'm sure the competitors in the Tour of Britain would be delighted that it's a marathon (which is a race IIRC?) rather than a race in your eyes! I was more hoping that the cyclist that might hit a sheep would come to harm.
 
Nod said:
I'm sure the competitors in the Tour of Britain would be delighted that it's a marathon (which is a race IIRC?) rather than a race in your eyes! I was more hoping that the cyclist that might hit a sheep would come to harm.
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That's an actual competitive sporting event - a once a year thing, that happen on closed roads.

What happens in the new Forrest are are not similar.

Apples and oranges

As for hoping a cyclist might come to harm - lovelyattitude.
 
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neil_g said:
although i believe the road racing laws are being looked at with a view to change them (F1 around London anyone :D )
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I think you'll find the law has already been relaxed allowing councils to organise motor racing events without having to seek higher permission.
 
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