Any space/time travel/alien/creationist/theorist, nerds out there?

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its a fascinating subject, but sadly spacetravel in a cool startrek kind of way will never happen in my lifetime, or my kids, or their kids!

aliens? got to be, have you SEEN some of the 'people' that post here??
 
matty said:
its a fascinating subject, but sadly spacetravel in a cool startrek kind of way will never happen in my lifetime, or my kids, or their kids!

aliens? got to be, have you SEEN some of the 'people' that post here??
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:lol::lol: Yeah i got to agree with you there. i wish it would happen. But i do think that one day soon something dramatic will happen that will change the course of the world, whatever that may be.

Aliens,... are we talking TP aliens here? co's they are a funny looking lot. :wave:
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
I am one of them, lol...

Anyone else.

I know above average on most of those subject as its something that has held my interest over the years. I know we have a part of the site for space photography, but never really heard people talking about it more in depth.
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I'd like to know if we are made of the smoke of the big bang? .....What lit the fuse?.... :thinking:

Sent from my X10i using TP Forums
 
Splog said:
I'd like to know if we are made of the smoke of the big bang? .....What lit the fuse?.... :thinking:

Sent from my X10i using TP Forums
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Haha, Now that's a subject that has spawned many arguments in the past with religous vs creationism. Its one of those things that you either believe or you don't, maybe it did happen, but i don't believe it was god that started it, and before anyone says anything i'm agnostic not an athiest.

























Waits for the onslaught of religous people.
 
In the beginning there was nothing...................and it exploded.
 
It didn't explode in the conventional sense though...
 
Isn't it all about the Turtle with the Elephants?
 
From a sheer statistics and overwhelming numbers point of view there simply has to be alien life out there....which form it takes and if it has gathered the ability for near/faster than light speed travel is another matter.

As for Time Travel.......8 pints of Bitter & Twisted cause me to jump forward by about 8 to 10 hours......does that count?
 
canonrebel said:
In the beginning there was nothing...................and it exploded.
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Please explain nothing? :D
lawrie29 said:
Isn't it all about the Turtle with the Elephants?
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Definately, its the only way. :thumbs:
cobwebscavern said:
From a sheer statistics and overwhelming numbers point of view there simply has to be alien life out there....which form it takes and if it has gathered the ability for near/faster than light speed travel is another matter.
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Totally agree with that. There are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on every beach/desert on earth, now that takes some figuring out. But from the other side of the fence, our entire universe is only 10 thousand years old, and dinosaurs are a man made myth.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
Please explain nothing? :D
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You can't. Nothing requires a reference frame and there was no reference frame before the big bang. Take two aspirin and rest. :p

Lunaticsamurai said:
Definately, its the only way. :thumbs:
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As long as you remember that it's turtles all the way down ;)

Lunaticsamurai said:
Totally agree with that. There are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on every beach/desert on earth, now that takes some figuring out. But from the other side of the fence, our entire universe is only 10 thousand years old, and dinosaurs are a man made myth.
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The other side of the fence also comes with handy blinkers, padded rooms, comfy arm-wrappy jackets and an optional tin foil hat :p
 
Islander said:
You can't. Nothing requires a reference frame and there was no reference frame before the big bang. Take two aspirin and rest. :p
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Sarcasm on my part. :D:thumbs:
As long as you remember that it's turtles all the way down ;)
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Right. Got it, all the way down. :wave:

The other side of the fence also comes with handy blinkers, padded rooms, comfy arm-wrappy jackets and an optional tin foil hat :p
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Well its thier belief and that's up to them. I just prefer hard facts and evidence, not a book that was loosley translated from scrolls 2 thousand years old, in a language that not a lot of people understand. :cuckoo:
 
Interesting how most people are happy to believe in aliens but cannot accept that there could be a God.
 
gramps said:
Interesting how most people are happy to believe in aliens but cannot accept that there could be a God.
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Its pure numbers to be honest.

Statistically there is more of a chance of other world lifeforms outthere, than an almighty being, (alien?) creating everything in the blink of an eye.

But the true facts show, that neither can be proven, whatever way you look at it.

Personally i don't believe that a god created everything, i believe in science and science tells me that aliens are out there. If however god does exist and had created everything then i will believe it, once it has been proven. Until then, i don't believe and that has nothing to do with faith either before anyone jumps on that boat. I have faith, faith that one day i will die, that i will have to pay tax, that i will need to go to the toilet sometime this week.:)
 
gramps said:
Interesting how most people are happy to believe in aliens but cannot accept that there could be a God.
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That'd be because the notion of life having formed on a near infinitesimal number of other planets is highly statistically plausible compared to the suggestion that there is an almighty being capable of creating everything we know in an instant.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
I have faith, faith that one day i will die, that i will have to pay tax, that i will need to go to the toilet sometime this week.:)
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Ah but that's not 'faith' is it - "Faith means being sure of the things we hope for and knowing that something is real even if we do not see it." (Hebrews 11.1)
There are lots of things in life that we do not 'see' but are happy to accept that they exist or did exist ... do you believe in Galileo, Napoleon, Josephus ... Jesus?
 
gramps said:
There are lots of things in life that we do not 'see' but are happy to accept that they exist or did exist ... do you believe in Galileo, Napoleon, Josephus ... Jesus?
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I don't believe in any of them or what they did. Yes there is evidence of some of things that those people did, but evidence from someone else's point of view, so in affect a story.

I don't doubt that Jesus exsisted, i do doubt some of the things he did.

I was party to a very long standing argument about this subject on another forum years ago, most of the argument was coming from religous people against the non believers, but anyway, something that was suggested was that in the time of Jesus, the things he performed are no more that a magic act, wine into water? is there any evidence of this? or just hearsay?

A man being instantly cured of Leprosy. A paralysed man walking. Blind men being able to see... all these things with no evidence, just what someone said.

Now science can explain pretty much everything in the universe to an extent, from how the big bang started to how far the furthest known point in space is, but it would never in a million years be able to explain these things, things that have never happened since, apart form in fairy tales and hollywood films. Coungerers and magicians have been performing mind boggling feats for hundreds of years that no-one can explain, are they a miracle? are they decendands of Christ? of course not, they are just humans performing tricks.

If you brought jesus into this world today, he'd be no more than a David Blain, with a lot of gullible followers.
 
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If you're going to argue for the existence of an abrahimic god, then what about the various Hindu deitys? How about the Norse ones? The Roman ones? Greek ones? The old pagan ones? The Eqyptian ones? The list goes on and on. Do they co-operate? Did they have an assembly line for all of the things they're supposed to have created? Do they share a heavenly condominium? Do they preside alien life too or are they just interested in this tiny backwater?

The existence of alien life of some description is far more believable ;)
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
I don't believe in any of them ........
I don't doubt that Jesus exsisted,
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:thinking:

Simple cause/effect logic dictates that nothing can come from nothing - every so-called explanation of how 'we' came to be here depends upon something being there before it happened, e.g. the 'Big Bang Theory'.
For me it is simple, "Of course, every house is built by someone, and God is really the one who built everything." (Hebrews 3.4)
Or maybe you believe that your house just 'appeared', or that 'life' happened even producing male and female, just by chance ... for me that is far more unreal than a belief in God.

However as the forum precludes religious discussion it's a bit pointless as it won't go anywhere.
 
putting religion aside (it's a belief system - you either believe or you don't) and getting back to the OP ... are you one of the rational sciencey geeks or do you put credence in the glass pyramids on the moon type of speculation ?
 
Simply put, there are possiblities. There are also things that non of us will ever understand. Just because you say that nothing can be produced from nothing and that there had to be something creating it in the first place, does not constitute a god or being of any kind.

We do not and will not understand our universe and its content for billions of years, we are not advanced enough in techology or our own minds to comprehend the vast mathmatical complications invloved in disecting this place. We only know the universe to be around 13billions light years because thats the furthest our technology can take us, what if it goes on for another 13 billion light years, or even 13 billion times that?

To stop it getting into an argument, which is not what was intened, nothing can be proven either way, but there is more evidence to support that god doesn't and never did exist, than if he did. Its not about believing or faith, faith is used because weak minded people don't want to open up to the possiblity that god never existed in the first place.

I have never met any religious person in my life that will say, "yeah i could be wrong"

But i am willing to say that.
 
Eth said:
putting religion aside (it's a belief system - you either believe or you don't) and getting back to the OP ... are you one of the rational sciencey geeks or do you put credence in the glass pyramids on the moon type of speculation ?
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Glass pyramids? never heard that one!

I'm a rational sciene person, trying to understand fact and evidence in research and education.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
Just because you say that nothing can be produced from nothing and that there had to be something creating it in the first place, does not constitute a god or being of any kind.
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Nor does it mean that it wasn't God.

Lunaticsamurai said:
We do not and will not understand our universe and its content for billions of years, we are not advanced enough in techology or our own minds to comprehend the vast mathmatical complications invloved in disecting this place. We only know the universe to be around 13billions light years because thats the furthest our technology can take us, what if it goes on for another 13 billion light years, or even 13 billion times that?
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Therein lies the problem, 'we' who are as the dust on the scales compared to God, deem 'ourselves' able to pontificate that there is no God. 'We' who live and experience 'three score years and ten' pontificate on the rights and wrongs of a God who had no begining and has no end, (yes I know ... our minds cannot comprehend that, yet still we decide what is and isn't!).


Lunaticsamurai said:
To stop it getting into an argument, which is not what was intened, nothing can be proven either way, but there is more evidence to support that god doesn't and never did exist, than if he did. Its not about believing or faith, faith is used because weak minded people don't want to open up to the possiblity that god never existed in the first place.

I have never met any religious person in my life that will say, "yeah i could be wrong"

But i am willing to say that.
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You are right ... you are wrong! :D
 
gramps said:
:thinking:

Simple cause/effect logic dictates that nothing can come from nothing ...
For me it is simple, "Of course, every house is built by someone, and God is really the one who built everything." (Hebrews 3.4)
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You say that everything has to have a cause, but you arbitrarily exempt god from this requirement. Why?
 
Tenubracon said:
You say that everything has to have a cause, but you arbitrarily exempt god from this requirement. Why?
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I don't exempt God from this requirement, God does ... He is so far above us in intelligence, wisdom and power that we cannot even begin to comprehend everything about Him, including His having no begining.
 
The heavens and earth were created in a blink of an eye, 6 days, 7 being the day of rest. But even today we can see evidence of solar systems and galaxies being formed over billions of years. We know this, there is evidence, we see it with our own eyes.

We see radiation left over from the big bang, its there and measurable.

We know that Carbon is in absolutely everything in the universe, again something measurable.

We see nebula left over from a star going supernova creating dust and gas over hundreds of light years. All evidence, all measurable, all fact.

Were is god in any of this, where is the evidence of gods hand in this and if god created the heavens and earth in 6 days, why is it taking billions of years for other astroanomalies to be created, when the whole lot was created in 6 days? its doesn't make sense.
 
gramps said:
I don't exempt God from this requirement, God does ... He is so far above us in intelligence, wisdom and power that we cannot even begin to comprehend everything about Him, including His having no begining.
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Couldn't you make the same claim for the universe itself? The universe is, after all, so complex that we will probably never fully understand it. Why must it require a creator if god doesn't?
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
The heavens and earth were created in a blink of an eye, 6 days, 7 being the day of rest. But even today we can see evidence of solar systems and galaxies being formed over billions of years. We know this, there is evidence, we see it with our own eyes.

We see radiation left over from the big bang, its there and measurable.

We know that Carbon is in absolutely everything in the universe, again something measurable.

We see nebula left over from a star going supernova creating dust and gas over hundreds of light years. All evidence, all measurable, all fact.

Were is god in any of this, where is the evidence of gods hand in this and if god created the heavens and earth in 6 days, why is it taking billions of years for other astroanomalies to be created, when the whole lot was created in 6 days? its doesn't make sense.
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If it was 6 literal days that God created the heavens and the earth it would possibly be harder to understand, (though not impossible for God), just because it causes problems for our primitive minds.
However God did not create the heavens and the earth in 6 literal days.
The bible account says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1.1) It does not put a timescale on that activity.
It then tells of how God created life on earth over 6 creative days - it doesn't say how long those days were either but the principle at 2 Peter 3.8 is interesting, "Don’t let it escape your notice, dear friends, that with the Lord a single day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a single day." Not unreasonable for someone with no begining or end.
 
Tenubracon said:
Couldn't you make the same claim for the universe itself? The universe is, after all, so complex that we will probably never fully understand it. Why must it require a creator if god doesn't?
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That's the problem, the fact that we cannot comprehend it - the universe is created, God is the Creator. To be otherwise would be like a pot claiming to be greater than the potter.
 
gramps said:
That's the problem, the fact that we cannot comprehend it - the universe is created, God is the Creator. To be otherwise would be like a pot claiming to be greater than the potter.
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Which neatly side steps the question I asked you.
 
Tenubracon said:
Which neatly side steps the question I asked you.
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I don't think so, maybe you didn't understand my answer - the analogy between God/Potter and universe/pot answered it very well I thought.
You may not agree with my answer but that doesn't mean I side-stepped your question.
 
gramps said:
I don't think so, maybe you didn't understand my answer - the analogy between God/Potter and universe/pot answered it very well I thought.
You may not agree with my answer but that doesn't mean I side-stepped your question.
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My question was 'why should the universe require a creator if god doesn't?' Your answer so far boils down to 'because he's god'. And the potter analogy fails because potters require creators too (mums and dads!).
 
gramps said:
However God did not create the heavens and the earth in 6 literal days.
The bible account says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1.1) It does not put a timescale on that activity.
It then tells of how God created life on earth over 6 creative days - it doesn't say how long those days were either but the principle at 2 Peter 3.8 is interesting, "Don’t let it escape your notice, dear friends, that with the Lord a single day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a single day." Not unreasonable for someone with no begining or end.
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But that is flawed, like most of the bible and religious accounts.

The reason Christians quote that verse is in order to make each "day" of Creation as long as they want it to be. But that fails. The ORDER of several events in the Genesis Creation Myth is wrong: they can make a "day" 24 hours, 1 year, a million years, or any length of time and it won't change the ORDER of events.

1) The Genesis Creation Myth wrongly states that angiosperms - those vascular land plants with seeds protected by fruits - appeared before any animals at all. That's wrong. The Cambrian "explosion" - which itself is not the first appearance of animal life - started about 530 million years ago: that's more then 300 million years BEFORE the first angiosperms.

2) The Genesis Creation Myth wrongly states that birds appeared before land animals. That's wrong too. First, birds evolved from certain land animals: certain reptiles. Second, land animals - even if we ignore the earlier arthropods and stick to just vertebrates - appear back as far as 350 million years ago. The first birds don't show up for another 200 million years or so.


It doesn't matter how long they try to make a day: in fact, making a day longer simply makes the error larger.
and this goes on...


3) God created light and divided the light from the darkness.

You cannot seperate light from dark, dark happens because of the absence of light, light is an electromagnetic radiation from an energy source like a sun or star, without light there is automatically dark, you don't need a god to do this, it happens.

All this is from prescientific minds.
 
Tenubracon said:
My question was 'why should the universe require a creator if god doesn't?' Your answer so far boils down to 'because he's god'. And the potter analogy fails because potters require creators too (mums and dads!).
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Lunaticsamurai said:
But that is flawed, like most of the bible and religious accounts.

The reason Christians quote that verse is in order to make each "day" of Creation as long as they want it to be. But that fails. The ORDER of several events in the Genesis Creation Myth is wrong: they can make a "day" 24 hours, 1 year, a million years, or any length of time and it won't change the ORDER of events.

1) The Genesis Creation Myth wrongly states that angiosperms - those vascular land plants with seeds protected by fruits - appeared before any animals at all. That's wrong. The Cambrian "explosion" - which itself is not the first appearance of animal life - started about 530 million years ago: that's more then 300 million years BEFORE the first angiosperms.

2) The Genesis Creation Myth wrongly states that birds appeared before land animals. That's wrong too. First, birds evolved from certain land animals: certain reptiles. Second, land animals - even if we ignore the earlier arthropods and stick to just vertebrates - appear back as far as 350 million years ago. The first birds don't show up for another 200 million years or so.

It doesn't matter how long they try to make a day: in fact, making a day longer simply makes the error larger.
and this goes on...

3) God created light and divided the light from the darkness.

You cannot seperate light from dark, dark happens because of the absence of light, light is an electromagnetic radiation from an energy source like a sun or star, without light there is automatically dark, you don't need a god to do this, it happens.

All this is from prescientific minds.
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And here's me looking for a bit of light reading on my lunch break ,

Think I've heartburn now lol
 
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