Any space/time travel/alien/creationist/theorist, nerds out there?

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So you saying now that people who believe in God are stupid?

Only messing, just enjoying an argument!!!!!!

As I said, I am on the fence, but having had a reasonable Catholic upbringing am able to put together a funny argument for either side.
 
I still want to know where all the other gods and godesses fit into the story... ;) :p
 
lawrie29 said:
So you saying now that people who believe in God are stupid?

Only messing, just enjoying an argument!!!!!!

As I said, I am on the fence, but having had a reasonable Catholic upbringing am able to put together a funny argument for either side.
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So if your on the fence, lets hear your argument for the otherside, it will be interesting to see what your views are.
 
lawrie29 said:
So you saying now that people who believe in God are stupid?

Only messing, just enjoying an argument!!!!!!

As I said, I am on the fence, but having had a reasonable Catholic upbringing am able to put together a funny argument for either side.
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No, I'm saying that 88% are overly credulous. For stupid, it'd have to be 99%!
 
Tenubracon said:
Give me one example of an unequivocally supernatural event, one that cannot be explained in the natural (scientific) framework, which would warrant serious investigation. Furthermore, show me evidence that this event was caused by a god and not by a fairy or hobgoblin.

The fact that 88% of people believe in some kind of god (I'll take your word for it) is certainly a phenomenon, but the question it raises is surely more about the credulity of the people questioned rather than the existence of a god. That is "Why do so many people believe in the supernatural?" rather than "Which of my sons does god want me to sacrifice this year?".
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There are plenty of events that will be claimed to be Acts of God - Just ask your insurance company. Also read the front of a One Dollar bill - In God We Trust. There are also many many documented Miracles, but whether you choose to beleive them is another question!

There have and always will be people who will use religion as a tool for there own and for bad purposes, just like there are people who do these things without using religion.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
So if your on the fence, lets hear your argument for the otherside, it will be interesting to see what your views are.
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Pretty much the same as the ones you guys have been putting forwards.

T
 
lawrie29 said:
There are plenty of events that will be claimed to be Acts of God - Just ask your insurance company.
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Insurance companies would blame Tony Blairs cat, if it would reduce thier liabilitity. It doesnt mean they believe in anything
 
lawrie29 said:
There are plenty of events that will be claimed to be Acts of God - Just ask your insurance company. Also read the front of a One Dollar bill - In God We Trust. There are also many many documented Miracles, but whether you choose to beleive them is another question!
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That's it? 'Act of God' is just a set legal phrase that allows insurance companies to get out of paying. Neither it nor the dollar bill argument are any kind of evidence of god's existence. As for documented miracles, I'm reminded of the atheist who visited Lourdes and noticed all of the walking sticks that had been left there by people supposedly cured over the years. Looking further, he became puzzed - where were all of the false limbs that must surely have been left by cured amputees?
 
At the end of the day, people who want to believe in a religion will get out of it what they put it. Praying is often a time when people sit and think about the problems they have - just sitting and thinking about things will often help sort them out, or focus the mind - much in the same way that meditation does.

Religion is a form of control, but lets face it, you ask the yobs on the corner if they believe in God and they will fall over laughing. What is wrong with people having a bit of fear of a higher being if it stops some of the mindless behaviour that we have today.

In my opinion society has gone too far the wrong way - in the past there was so much pressure put on people through the church - people would not "sin" - that as education and communication has improved (mainly over the past 100 years) the number of people who do not believe in a god has meant that peoples morals have dropped (and I talk about society as a whole, I'm not saying you do not have morals if you don't believe in a God) which is causing more and more problems in society. You could argue that it has made society more accepting, which is a good thing, but the number of problems we have are so much greater (specially if you read the Daily Mail).

I personally think that a certain level of religious/moral belief needs to be re installed to society to help improve it.

I also don't like the people who very strongly argue either way on this subject. I do not think it is right for anyone to pressure there views onto other people.

That said, I take my daughters to Church on a Sunday, and my eldest will do her Communion soon. I do this not because I wish to instill the catholic church on them, but because I want them to have a basic grounding in a religion so they have an understanding of one and can make their own minds up when they are older.
 
Tenubracon said:
That's it? 'Act of God' is just a set legal phrase that allows insurance companies to get out of paying. Neither it nor the dollar bill argument are any kind of evidence of god's existence. As for documented miracles, I'm reminded of the atheist who visited Lourdes and noticed all of the walking sticks that had been left there by people supposedly cured over the years. Looking further, he became puzzed - where were all of the false limbs that must surely have been left by cured amputees?
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You believe what you want to believe, but you should be open to all ideas. Remember the whole point of Faith is that it is just that - there will never be proof!
 
Oh and the limbs would be sold on Ebay - they are much more expensive that walking sticks!
 
lawrie29 said:
<snip>

Religion is a form of control, but lets face it, you ask the yobs on the corner if they believe in God and they will fall over laughing. What is wrong with people having a bit of fear of a higher being if it stops some of the mindless behaviour that we have today.

In my opinion society has gone too far the wrong way - in the past there was so much pressure put on people through the church - people would not "sin" - that as education and communication has improved (mainly over the past 100 years) the number of people who do not believe in a god has meant that peoples morals have dropped (and I talk about society as a whole, I'm not saying you do not have morals if you don't believe in a God) which is causing more and more problems in society. You could argue that it has made society more accepting, which is a good thing, but the number of problems we have are so much greater (specially if you read the Daily Mail).

I personally think that a certain level of religious/moral belief needs to be re installed to society to help improve it.
.
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<snip>

The problem here is not only the lack of religion, it's also the gathering of multiple religions and the problems brought upon us by those religious enough to want to impose their views, opinions and morals on others. This can and does lead to many problems and conflict throughout the world.

Religion is complete nonsense imho and serves little purpose if everyone is not a true believer. Each to their own, but give me science any-day.
 
lawrie29 said:
At the end of the day, people who want to believe in a religion will get out of it what they put it. Praying is often a time when people sit and think about the problems they have - just sitting and thinking about things will often help sort them out, or focus the mind - much in the same way that meditation does.

Religion is a form of control, but lets face it, you ask the yobs on the corner if they believe in God and they will fall over laughing. Yet the madman that creates a war is highly religiousWhat is wrong with people having a bit of fear of a higher being if it stops some of the mindless behaviour that we have today.

In my opinion society has gone too far the wrong way - in the past there was so much pressure put on people through the church - people would not "sin" They still sinned, all the time, no-one is sin free, and all that really did was create barriers to stop people finding thier own way in life.- that as education and communication has improved (mainly over the past 100 years) the number of people who do not believe in a god has meant that peoples morals have dropped I have high morals and instill those morals in my young family, i don't need religion for that(and I talk about society as a whole, I'm not saying you do not have morals if you don't believe in a God) which is causing more and more problems in society. You cannot put the fact that people have less morals down to the fact that people don't belive in god You could argue that it has made society more accepting, which is a good thing, but the number of problems we have are so much greater (specially if you read the Daily Mail). Again were is the evidence of this, were are the statistics? You previously said that 88% of the world believes in god, so what's thier excuse for the things they do?

I personally think that a certain level of religious/moral belief needs to be re installed to society to help improve it.Rubbish

I also don't like the people who very strongly argue either way on this subject. I do not think it is right for anyone to pressure there views onto other people. But you are doing that with your own children, let them grow up with no religion and make thier own mind up, if later on in years they want to discover god then encourage them, but please do not think that you do not pressure them because you do.

That said, I take my daughters to Church on a Sunday, and my eldest will do her Communion soon. I do this not because I wish to instill the catholic church on them, but because I want them to have a basic grounding in a religion so they have an understanding of one and can make their own minds up when they are older.
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Children need to grow up being taught values of life, morals and respect for other people. They need to work hard and get the most out of what short time they have on this planet. Don't cloud thier minds with false hope that one day everything will be ok, you have no way of knowing that. Simply put, don't put a limit on your children and thier children, they will learn the world and what it has to offer in thier own time, without you.
 
Anyhoo! ... Back to space stuff before it gets locked ;)

If our Solar System was the size of a CD then our Galaxy the Milky Way would be about the size of the Earth :eek: ....... give or take a few centimetres .. ;)
 
Splog said:
Anyhoo! ... Back to space stuff before it gets locked ;)

If our Solar System was the size of a CD then our Galaxy the Milky Way would be about the size of the Earth :eek: ....... give or take a few centimetres .. ;)
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I actually worked this out quite a few years ago...

Our galaxy, the milky way is 100.000 light years across, from edge to edge, (1 light year equals how far light can travel in one direction in 1 year and light travels at 186.000 miles a second, for those that don't know) Our nearest neighbouring galaxy is Andromeda which is 2.2 million light years away.
Now if you scale our Galaxy down to 1 inch then Andromeda would be over 1 mile away.


In the image below you will see a diagram of roughly what our galaxy is like and position of us in it, for scale purposes, the point that shows our sun is our entire solar system included in that little dot.

5571568167_9fd66048c2.jpg




Took me about 4 days to work that out, scaling everything down.


Now imagine that the edge of the known universe is roughly 13 billion light years away... thats a big place.
 
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Lunaticsamurai said:
I actually worked this out quite a few years ago...

Our galaxy, the milky way is 100.000 light years across, from edge to edge, (1 light year equals how far light can travel in one direction in 1 year and light travels at 186.000 miles a second, for those that don't know) Our nearest neighbouring galaxy is Andromeda which is 2.2 million light years away.

Now if you scale our Galaxy down to 1 inch then Andromeda would be over 1 mile away.



Took me about 4 days to work that out, scaling everything down.


Now imagine that the edge of the known universe is roughly 13 billion light years away... thats a big place.
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Oooops, back to the calculator SOL 186,300 per second ... Andromeda 2.5 million LYs .. ;)
 
hmm ok , time for me to stick my oar in on this one............as only just found it.......... in case you don't get what follows, my opinion is firmly in the science camp. Very firmly in the science camp. About as far in the science camp as you can get.

Those of yuo on the creation side, could you please explain something to me........ Christains, have a way of interpreting how it all happened, as do Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims, and 101 other religions - some large, some hmmm shall we say "cults".

You can't all be right? Can you? Quite often when we get door knockers, I will entertain them on the doorstep for a bit of banter...........

and there are certain things that can never be answered..........

"how do I know your God is the right one for me to follow?" Last thing I want is to rock up at the proverbial pearly gates to spend eternity with Kylie & Dannie Minogue, to have them firmly shut in my face because I chose the wrong deity.......:lol:

Lightning conductors are a sore subject as well, as is why does Easter move each year, if it is to mark someones death. My nan dies on the 15th March 1981, not the 3rd sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox or whatever it is.......

however, each to their own.

Back to the original question.........and to probably (mis)quote prof B cox... "there's a billion billion billion trillion million billion gadzillion stars in the universe."

Now logically, say 0.0001% had planets orbiting them, and of those that did 0.0001% - then the probability of life elsewhere in the universe is pretty much odd's on....... however, be it primordial swamp or teleportation, I don't think we will know, ever.........
 
lawrie29 said:
Religion is a form of control, but lets face it, you ask the yobs on the corner if they believe in God and they will fall over laughing. What is wrong with people having a bit of fear of a higher being if it stops some of the mindless behaviour that we have today.
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'God fearing' is a phrase I abhor. If you follow God's will because you fear repercussions you're in it for all the wrong reasons. The number of younger Christians I've heard just repeat 'if you don't you'll go to hell' is truly shocking and that belief is blatantly a product of their parents' or vicar's [awful] teachings. If you follow God you should do so because you have unwavering love for Him not because you fear the consequences of not doing so.

This is one of the major problems I have with religious parents passing on their beliefs to children. If they can believe you when you say Santa comes once a year to bring presents and that the tooth fairy knows when you lose a tooth and will leave money for you under your pillow then they will believe something as institutionalised as religion. The difference is when they grow old society prevents those silly beliefs continuing but the 'faith' they've been taught at a young age is permitted to continue by society and is embedded so strongly it becomes susceptible to irrationality of thought when presented with alternatives.
 
TriggerHappy said:
'God fearing' is a phrase I abhor. If you follow God's will because you fear repercussions you're in it for all the wrong reasons. The number of younger Christians I've heard just repeat 'if you don't you'll go to hell' is truly shocking and that belief is blatantly a product of their parents' or vicar's [awful] teachings. If you follow God you should do so because you have unwavering love for Him not because you fear the consequences of not doing so.

This is one of the major problems I have with religious parents passing on their beliefs to children. If they can believe you when you say Santa comes once a year to bring presents and that the tooth fairy knows when you lose a tooth and will leave money for you under your pillow then they will believe something as institutionalised as religion. The difference is when they grow old society prevents those silly beliefs continuing but the 'faith' they've been taught at a young age is permitted to continue by society and is embedded so strongly it becomes susceptible to irrationality of thought when presented with alternatives.
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Good post. :thumbs:
 
:plusone:
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
186.282 :p
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:lol: Yeah, but you haven't considered the expansion of the Universe! Because the Universe is expanding the light has travelled 18 miles further than it has actually travelled ;)
 
OK

Conclusive proof........[YOUTUBE]buqtdpuZxvk[/YOUTUBE]

:thumbs:
 
BBC2 NOW... Bibles buried secrets.
 
@richard.........

funny but spoof........as indicated in the title, and from what I posted over a week back.......

As fro MP though...... shows we've known that for a while.... 197?

:-)
 
Lynton said:
@richard.........

funny but spoof........as indicated in the title, and from what I posted over a week back.......

As fro MP though...... shows we've known that for a while.... 197?

:-)
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I thought I would lighten things up
 
lol, the other one is funnier (IMVHO)!!!!!

The other prof B cox one that is........
 
Tenubracon said:
Which is why it is of little value when trying to understand the world.
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Actually it is not. So much of the world, from it's politics, its science and its disagreements are based around religious beliefs that when trying to understand the World, it is quite an important thing.

I agree when trying to understand science it may not be, but given the influence that religion has had over science in the past, there is a certain amount of relevance.
 
Lunaticsamurai said:
Children need to grow up being taught values of life, morals and respect for other people. They need to work hard and get the most out of what short time they have on this planet. Don't cloud thier minds with false hope that one day everything will be ok, you have no way of knowing that. Simply put, don't put a limit on your children and thier children, they will learn the world and what it has to offer in thier own time, without you.
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They do need to be taught all the above, but there is nothing wrong with opening their minds to all posibilities. Don't get me wrong, I don't drag my kids to church every Sunday, but I will take them from time to time. I don't even think we have a copy of the bible in the house.

But my youngest will still choose the Bible Stories book she has on her bookcase every now and again to hear a story from it.

I beleive that children need to experience many things whilst growing up, religion being one of them. I went to many different temples for various reasons whilst growing up, and it expanded my mind. My parents also discussed the various scientific arguments. My Grandad was a C of E Vicar, but he never pushed any kind of belief onto anyone in the family.

I do beleive that children should experience religion at a young age so that they have memories of it and it is not an alien thing to them. They can then decide what they want when they are older. I don't think that we should not expose them to religion because of our personal thoughts on it - that is just as bad as forcing it upon them.

Children may well learn the world in their own ways without us, but they do also need our help. Do you expect your child to get on at school without sitting and helping them with their spellings when they are 5? THey may do, but the majority of the kids need some help at home to assist with the learning. Children do need guidance to develop, rather than just flapping in the dark.
 
Religion is a form of control, but lets face it, you ask the yobs on the corner if they believe in God and they will fall over laughing. Yet the madman that creates a war is highly religious Not all are/were religious madman, and not all passionate religous leaders start wars What is wrong with people having a bit of fear of a higher being if it stops some of the mindless behaviour that we have today.

In my opinion society has gone too far the wrong way - in the past there was so much pressure put on people through the church - people would not "sin" They still sinned, all the time, no-one is sin free, and all that really did was create barriers to stop people finding thier own way in life. Maybe, but it also meant that you could leave your front door unlocked -it is a fine balance that is needed- that as education and communication has improved (mainly over the past 100 years) the number of people who do not believe in a god has meant that peoples morals have dropped I have high morals and instill those morals in my young family, i don't need religion for that You may not, but many others would benefit from higher morals and self worth, and religion is one way that this can be acheive - One way, not the ONLY way.(and I talk about society as a whole, I'm not saying you do not have morals if you don't believe in a God) which is causing more and more problems in society. You cannot put the fact that people have less morals down to the fact that people don't belive in god What do you suggest? Blame the parents who don't guise their children enough to understand the difference between right and wrong?You could argue that it has made society more accepting, which is a good thing, but the number of problems we have are so much greater (specially if you read the Daily Mail). Again were is the evidence of this, were are the statistics? You previously said that 88% of the world believes in god, so what's thier excuse for the things they do? You misunderstand me - more accepting of race, gender, sexuality, personal choice, Tattoos etc. With regards to the number of problems in society, I don't think I need stats to tell you that the level of crime we have today compared to the 1950's is much higher

I personally think that a certain level of religious/moral belief needs to be re installed to society to help improve it.Rubbish Yet you insist that you instill a high level of morals for your own family, there must be a reason for this - you want them to understand between right and wrong, the rest of societywould benefit from this, surely? Religion is one way to do this.
 
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