Any space/time travel/alien/creationist/theorist, nerds out there?

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dentedshed said:
Out of Focus - Totally unrelated off topic type stuff, jokes, rants, raves..anything at all thats nothing to do with photography, but please, no politics or religion!

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It's Sociology, if you want to be technical ;)
 
TriggerHappy said:
'God fearing' is a phrase I abhor. If you follow God's will because you fear repercussions you're in it for all the wrong reasons. The number of younger Christians I've heard just repeat 'if you don't you'll go to hell' is truly shocking and that belief is blatantly a product of their parents' or vicar's [awful] teachings. If you follow God you should do so because you have unwavering love for Him not because you fear the consequences of not doing so.

This is one of the major problems I have with religious parents passing on their beliefs to children. If they can believe you when you say Santa comes once a year to bring presents and that the tooth fairy knows when you lose a tooth and will leave money for you under your pillow then they will believe something as institutionalised as religion. The difference is when they grow old society prevents those silly beliefs continuing but the 'faith' they've been taught at a young age is permitted to continue by society and is embedded so strongly it becomes susceptible to irrationality of thought when presented with alternatives.
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So you do nothing on the 25th December every year, don't buy any gifts etc, and never eat an Easter egg?

Christmas and Easter are not really about religion (and the tooth fairy is not in the bible!) anymore, just the commercial aspect of things. In that respect, society has much to thank as it is the wheels of things like this that keep the economy moving.
 
Splog said:
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The problem here is not only the lack of religion, it's also the gathering of multiple religions and the problems brought upon us by those religious enough to want to impose their views, opinions and morals on others. This can and does lead to many problems and conflict throughout the world.

Religion is complete nonsense imho and serves little purpose if everyone is not a true believer. Each to their own, but give me science any-day.
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It does, and that is not a good thing. However, the nature of mankind means that there will always be conflicts between groups, whether religion is there or not.
 
lawrie29 said:
So you do nothing on the 25th December every year, don't buy any gifts etc, and never eat an Easter egg?

Christmas and Easter are not really about religion (and the tooth fairy is not in the bible!) anymore, just the commercial aspect of things. In that respect, society has much to thank as it is the wheels of things like this that keep the economy moving.
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Along with Mothers day, Red nose day, Stop smoking day, Fathers day etc. but please don't forget the 'Give a Splog a pound day' ..... bank transfer details available on request... Paypal accepted
 
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Am pretty much the only one who is open minded either way?

Now, with regards to time travel etc, I don't think this possible.
 
Mothers day (mothering sunday) is a christian festival....
 
lawrie29 said:
So you do nothing on the 25th December every year, don't buy any gifts etc, and never eat an Easter egg?

Christmas and Easter are not really about religion (and the tooth fairy is not in the bible!) anymore, just the commercial aspect of things. In that respect, society has much to thank as it is the wheels of things like this that keep the economy moving.
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I come from quite a religious family so Christmas is an event. For me the religious side is entirely inconsequential but I welcome the opportunity and incentive to have our family get together once a year. As for easter, I'm 21 and honestly can't remember the last time I got an Easter egg or card. Often we (my family and I) decide to pool the money together and donate to charities. A couple of years ago we sent chickens to africa through a charity with the equivalent cash we could have spent on Easter eggs and cards, so no I don't celebrate Easter in any respect and I don't engage in the religious side of Christmas but welcome it as a holiday and a festival.

Society doesn't depend on these festivities to keep the economy moving. We have new year, valentines day, the release of new car number plates and more that all stimulate sales in the economy and I suspect if we didn't have society centred around religious holidays we'd have an alternative excuse to behave in a similar way at different times of the year. After all, it wasn't the death of Jesus that made us give presents to our nearest and dearest, that was something which subsequently developed from a much more religious occasion.
 
TriggerHappy said:
I come from quite a religious family so Christmas is an event. For me the religious side is entirely inconsequential but I welcome the opportunity and incentive to have our family get together once a year. As for easter, I'm 21 and honestly can't remember the last time I got an Easter egg or card. Often we (my family and I) decide to pool the money together and donate to charities. A couple of years ago we sent chickens to africa through a charity with the equivalent cash we could have spent on Easter eggs and cards, so no I don't celebrate Easter in any respect and I don't engage in the religious side of Christmas but welcome it as a holiday and a festival.

Society doesn't depend on these festivities to keep the economy moving. We have new year, valentines day, the release of new car number plates and more that all stimulate sales in the economy and I suspect if we didn't have society centred around religious holidays we'd have an alternative excuse to behave in a similar way at different times of the year. After all, it wasn't the death of Jesus that made us give presents to our nearest and dearest, that was something which subsequently developed from a much more religious occasion.
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Good on you for the chickens!

However have to disagree with the festivities and the economy. Christmas is the biggest time of year for every retailer pretty much, and we would spend less money every year if it wasn't for Christmas,Easter, Saint Valentines, Mothering Sunday, Halloween ( I know, not a Christian celebration, but still religious) etc. Without these, retailers would only have to invent celebrations to get us to spend money, just like with Fathers and Grandparents days.

Your right, the death of Jesus did not make us give gifts to our nearest and dearest, it was his Birth to signify the gifts given by the 3 kings, IIRC.
 
lawrie29 said:
Now, with regards to time travel etc, I don't think this possible.
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Yes it is! ....... To the future anyway, The GPS. satellites are doing this all the time. ;)
 
Splog said:
Yes it is! ....... To the future anyway, The GPS. satellites are doing this all the time. ;)
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I guess time travel forwards, though I do find that I make a post on TP and it will state 00.04 and my computer clock will only say 00.03, so thats from the future!
 
lawrie29 said:
I guess time travel forwards, though I do find that I make a post on TP and it will state 00.04 and my computer clock will only say 00.03, so thats from the future!
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:lol: The gravitational pull of the Earth on space time slows time and bends space ... very minutely but it does have an effect!
 
lawrie29 said:
Actually it is not. So much of the world, from it's politics, its science and its disagreements are based around religious beliefs that when trying to understand the World, it is quite an important thing.

I agree when trying to understand science it may not be, but given the influence that religion has had over science in the past, there is a certain amount of relevance.
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Religious beliefs are useless in helping us to understand nature / the universe, and so on because they lack a rigourous framework for evaluating knowledge and hypotheses. They start with an unsubstantiated premise (there is a god as described in this holy book) and then cherry pick evidence that they see as supporting this premise, ignoring inconvenient facts as they go. Famous examples of relihious types holding back understanding include Galileo and the heliocentric solar system and of course the ongoing anti-evolution nonsense.

On the other hand, if you want to solve political / social problems, a good understanding of the local religion is important as so much of society will be influenced by that particular religion. However, religion does not offer any explicatory power here either, is is, in fact, just one more thing to be understood.
 
Who would sell everything they had to go to the moon ,simple question requiring am simple answer .

I for one think there has to be other life out there I've thought this since I was a wee lad and I'm not religious in any shape or form .
 
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Surprised how this thread took off and that given the "no Religion" rule it hasn't been locked.

If you have quoted anything from the bible so far then think about this = it's only a book, work of fiction. Big book of parables about how some guy said "would it be nice and better if we didn't knock seven shades of shoogle out of one another and tried to get along" which has been twisted and corrupted and used to subvert and cause wars.

Losing religion will be the next logical step in human evolution (I hope) and allow us to progress further in science and live together in peace and harmony.
 
I suspect it's survived because it's been good natured overall rather than argumentative :)

I did notice that none of the pro-god posters actually answered my question as to how all the other gods and goddesses that man has worshipped through the ages (and in some cases still worship) fit into the picture. After all, faith is faith surely... :p
 
Islander said:
I did notice that none of the pro-god posters actually answered my question as to how all the other gods and goddesses that man has worshipped through the ages (and in some cases still worship) fit into the picture. After all, faith is faith surely... :p
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Man and woman can worship and make gods of whoever or whatever they like, so one will worship a football player, another a pop star, another money, another science, another Buddha and so on.
The bible uses an illustration of an idol worshipper, noting how he fells a tree and cuts it into two halves ... with one half he makes an idol to worship and with the other he lights a fire to cook his food ... foolish!
Whatever 'god' you worship it may or may not bring you some temporary benefit or satisfy some desire or need, however, whether it will bring you lasting satisfaction, or indeed the future blessings that the bible fortells, (and that so many decry), is another matter entirely.
If there is no Almighty God, a Creator, with a purpose to bring, "thy will be done as in heaven also upon earth", then we have no hope beyond how things are at the moment.
However, if there is an Almighty God, a Creator, with a purpose, as outlined in the bible, then we have much to look forward to.
 
Islander said:
I suspect it's survived because it's been good natured overall rather than argumentative :)

I did notice that none of the pro-god posters actually answered my question as to how all the other gods and goddesses that man has worshipped through the ages (and in some cases still worship) fit into the picture. After all, faith is faith surely... :p
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Ah yes...my imaginary friend in the sky is much better and more powerful than yours. :cuckoo:

If there is a god he has screwed things up pretty badly recently in Japan hasn't he? Dropped the ball there rather...or perhaps he's trying to prove that Shinto isn't the one true religion?
 
cobwebscavern said:
If there is a god he has screwed things up pretty badly recently in Japan hasn't he? Dropped the ball there rather...or perhaps he's trying to prove that Shinto isn't the one true religion?
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Ah right, so God is responsible ... probably Him that built the Nuclear Power Station on a known fault line then.
Man in general has exempted himself from God and in doing so has given himself the opportunity to show how he can manage without God ... failing dismally though.
 
lawrie29 said:
I personally think that a certain level of religious/moral belief needs to be re installed to society to help improve it.
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lawrie29 said:
It does, and that is not a good thing. However, the nature of mankind means that there will always be conflicts between groups, whether religion is there or not.
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You Contradict yourself here.
lawrie29 said:
They do need to be taught all the above, but there is nothing wrong with opening their minds to all posibilities. Don't get me wrong, I don't drag my kids to church every Sunday, but I will take them from time to time. I don't even think we have a copy of the bible in the house.
But your not opening thier minds, your closing them, your closing them to the possiblies of the universe, according to a book.
But my youngest will still choose the Bible Stories book she has on her bookcase every now and again to hear a story from it.

I beleive that children need to experience many things whilst growing up, religion being one of them. I went to many different temples for various reasons whilst growing up, and it expanded my mind. My parents also discussed the various scientific arguments. My Grandad was a C of E Vicar, but he never pushed any kind of belief onto anyone in the family.I too believe the same but religion is not one of them. Growing up is hard enough without clouding thier minds with false hope. Do they pray when you take them to church?

I do beleive that children should experience religion at a young age so that they have memories of it and it is not an alien thing to them. They can then decide what they want when they are older. I don't think that we should not expose them to religion because of our personal thoughts on it - that is just as bad as forcing it upon them.They don't need you to experience religion, its taught in school the same as science.

Children may well learn the world in their own ways without us, but they do also need our help. Do you expect your child to get on at school without sitting and helping them with their spellings when they are 5? THey may do, but the majority of the kids need some help at home to assist with the learning. Children do need guidance to develop, rather than just flapping in the dark.
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Spelling is a little different than a whole belief system, they need help in understanding the world and its people, they don't need to be confused... Daddy, if god loves us then why did he kill all those people in Japan?, how are you going to explain that one at such a young age, or will you say... "Actually, god had nothing to do with it, it was a fault line in the rock that is contantly shifting, causing earthquakes, this earthquake caused a massive tsunami and killed everyone". That's only going to raise another.... "but daddy, if god loved them" Its false and its wrong.


lawrie29 said:
Am pretty much the only one who is open minded either way?
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I dont think your open minded at all to be honest, and in my honest opinion, i think you are a very religious person, who would like to believe that one day we will all be floating on some big cloud in the sky with all of our loved ones, the truth of the matter is that you need to grasp the concept that no-one knows what happens when we die, period, and if you decide you don't want to believe then you'll go to hell, but no-one will ever know that.
Now, with regards to time travel etc, I don't think this possible.
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I believe it could be possible, but there are a lot of variables to consider. At the moment they have never found anything that can travel faster than the speed of light, although light cannot escape from a black hole.
 
gramps said:
Ah right, so God is responsible ... probably Him that built the Nuclear Power Station on a known fault line then.
Man in general has exempted himself from God and in doing so has given himself the opportunity to show how he can manage without God ... failing dismally though.
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No, although by the same logic your god would have been responsible for the earthquake and tsunami which were the truly devastating events along with all of the other natural disasters responsible for massive devastation. Touch mercurial perhaps? ;)

Also, your dismissal of the other gods/goddesses as essentially false idols is a tad arrogant isn't it? If there are gods, and I personally don't believe for a minute that there are, then what gives any one religion the right to dismiss another as false?
 
gramps said:
Ah right, so God is responsible ... probably Him that built the Nuclear Power Station on a known fault line then.
Man in general has exempted himself from God and in doing so has given himself the opportunity to show how he can manage without God ... failing dismally though.
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But man is made in gods image....and is part of gods master plan...god is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and other omnistuff.

So either he is all those things and controls it all (and he has screwed up or just doesn't give a toss) and is responsible or he isn't and therefore isn't a god and doesn't exist.

Well apart from the radiation he surely, at the very least, controls how the earth works given according to the oft quoted Genesis he made the world so he is directly responsible for those who died in the quake and tsunami.
 
Islander said:
No, although by the same logic your god would have been responsible for the earthquake and tsunami which were the truly devastating events along with all of the other natural disasters responsible for massive devastation. Touch mercurial perhaps? ;)
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Not so but I don't expect you to accept that either.

Islander said:
Also, your dismissal of the other gods/goddesses as essentially false idols is a tad arrogant isn't it? If there are gods, and I personally don't believe for a minute that there are, then what gives any one religion the right to dismiss another as false?
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I didn't dismiss anything, I used an illustration.
However some things can easily be seen to be false ... another illustration, I buy a cheap lens from eBay because it claims to be as good as Nikon, however when I use it I see that the claim is false.
As Jesus said, "by their fruits you will know these men".
Some religions teach a God of peace and then pray over men who go to war, killing people of the same religion 'on the other side'.
Some religions teach the ten commandments and then condone adultery, killing or shoplifting.
Whether you believe in a God or not, whether you are a religious person or not, hypocrisy is generally easy to spot - that's not arrogance or being dismissive ... it's fact.
 
cobwebscavern said:
But man is made in gods image....and is part of gods master plan...god is supposed to be omnipotent, omniscient and other omnistuff.

So either he is all those things and controls it all (and he has screwed up or just doesn't give a toss) and is responsible or he isn't and therefore isn't a god and doesn't exist.

Well apart from the radiation he surely, at the very least, controls how the earth works given according to the oft quoted Genesis he made the world so he is directly responsible for those who died in the quake and tsunami.
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Yes man was made in God's image, however man is thousands of years away from that image today and as man seeks to remain independent from God he continues to move farther and farther away.
Man has made the claim that he doesn't need God and that he can survive and prosper without God ... he is getting his chance to prove it ... sadly it isn't working.
In the absence of God's definitive control of the earth and mans affairs he continues to suffer the consequences of alienation from God, including such as wars, earthquakes, famines and pestilence.
The good news is that God has a set time to step in once again and take over the reins ... then it will be seen just how different things can be in our world.
 
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GrittyShaker said:
Maybe he should have thought twice about creating the uranium and plutonium, and seeing that they were good, then?
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You mean like the creator of the bicycle chain should have forseen that teddy boys in the 60's would use them as weapons, or that the refiners of petrol should have forseen that it would be used for arson?
God is not responsible for the foolishness of mans actions, like a loving parent He gives advice and warnings in His Word the bible ... heed them or ignore them, it's personal choice ... oh yes, that 'wicked', 'thoughtless' God did give us freedom of choice!
 
gramps said:
Yes man was made in God's image, however man is thousands of years away from that image today and as man seeks to remain independent from God he continues to move farther and farther away.
Man has made the claim that he doesn't need God and that he can survive and prosper without God ... he is getting his chance to prove it ... sadly it isn't working.
In the absence of God's definitive control of the earth and mans affairs he continues to suffer the consequences of alienation from God, including such as wars, earthquakes, famines and pestilence.
The good news is that God has a set time to step in once again and take over the reigns ... then it will be seen just how different things can be in our world.
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No, you can't have it both ways.....Look at the beautiful earth...sky, seas. mountains...isn't gods creation wonderful? Well yes it is but it has to be accepted as a whole he created everything on earth then and is responsible for all the actions.

Or none of it.

...and leaving aside man and his independence, or not, from god you haven't mentioned the fact that if there is a god and he did indeed create the earth then is solely responsible for all the deaths in Japan....no manmade intervention was in effect there. So god simply doesn't care for human life or he is inept and cannot control his creation...not much of a god either way.
 
gramps said:
You mean like the creator of the bicycle chain should have forseen that teddy boys in the 60's would use them as weapons, or that the refiners of petrol should have forseen that it would be used for arson?
God is not responsible for the foolishness of mans actions, like a loving parent He gives advice and warnings in His Word the bible ... heed them or ignore them, it's personal choice ... oh yes, that 'wicked', 'thoughtless' God did give us freedom of choice!
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Ah but then the abrahimic god is said to be omiscient therefore knowing all that has been, is and will be. He therefore knows what every person is going to do before they do it and that's predestination in a nutshell. That precludes personal choice or free will because by knowing what is going to be, everything is preordained. ;)
 
cobwebscavern said:
No, you can't have it both ways.....Look at the beautiful earth...sky, seas. mountains...isn't gods creation wonderful? Well yes it is but it has to be accepted as a whole he created everything on earth then and is responsible for all the actions.
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That's your view, I don't happen to share it. The creation is wonderful, we have much to be grateful for, but man has so abused the creation that it is not surprising that we suffer some of the consequences of our reckless actions.
It is not for you or me to sit in judgment of God but without respect for God you are free to do that to your heart's content. I merely repeat, God is not responsible for what is happening in the world today - we are responsible. What is to be looked forward to is God's time to once again control the earth and restore it to the peaceful paradise that it was when created ... that's my view, you don't happen to share it.[/quote]


cobwebscavern said:
...and leaving aside man and his independence, or not, from god you haven't mentioned the fact that if there is a god and he did indeed create the earth then is solely responsible for all the deaths in Japan....no manmade intervention was in effect there. So god simply doesn't care for human life or he is inept and cannot control his creation...not much of a god either way.
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Again, that's your view and I don't share it. I happen to believe that there is a reason why these things are happening and a reason why God does not chose to stop them at present.
I also happen to believe that the time is coming when these things will be reversed by God ... I don't expect you to believe that either and doubtless you will continue to blame God for all man's ills.
 
Islander said:
Ah but then the abrahimic god is said to be omiscient therefore knowing all that has been, is and will be. He therefore knows what every person is going to do before they do it and that's predestination in a nutshell. That precludes personal choice or free will because by knowing what is going to be, everything is preordained. ;)
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A common misconception, God does not choose to know everything.
He certainly knows how He will act to restore the earth and the heavens to His original purpose and He knows certain facts about how this will affect certain groups of people and organizations ... but He does not chose to know everything about our individual futures, therefore our lives are not preordained.
He gives us the freedom to do whatever we wish, however He also assures us that He will hold us responsible for our actions.
 
ach, it was going fine too. :(

none of you saw that coming :p
 
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