An Independent Scotland?

[Blank_Canvas]

If that's the case, then I agree with you, it is wrong.
It'd be easy enough to prove you were born in Scotland if you wanted to vote.

But you don't have to prove yourself to be Scottish. You just have to be a resident or living there. My son is on the Electoral register.

 

[Cobra]

But you don't have to prove yourself to be Scottish. You just have to be a resident or living there. My son is on the Electoral register.

All I was getting at was, those that lived south of the boarder,
if they wanted a vote, they should be allowed one, postal vote maybe,
on production of a birth certificate.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

All I was getting at was, those that lived south of the boarder,
if they wanted a vote, they should be allowed one, postal vote maybe,
on production of a birth certificate.

I agree with you, a vote by proxy and also for Scottish HM Forces service personnel too I might add.

 

[dejongj]

And conversely a lot won't - but we will never know and they won't have a say which I think is wrong. Ironically, if you are English and live in Scotland you can vote ! My son is going to be voting 'No' on the 18th.

I had that conversation with a few scots in the office. They are severely p***ed off they can't vote and would love to vote no precisely because of that.

Then again there was also an EU student on the news living in Edinburgh for 8!months and apparently can vote. Is that true? I wonder why?

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Who knows the whole sh'bang has gone FUBAR !

 

[Dave *]

Curiously, and hypothetically, I'm sure there are a lot that would vote yes, that are living south of the boarder.

After the way this whole sorry episode is being handled, probably 2/3rds of England would vote yes if given the opportunity, just to get rid of all the lies, whining and bitching currently coming from north of the border (and the perpetual blaming of England for the majority of Scottish woes).

 

[dejongj]

After the way this whole sorry episode is being handled, probably 2/3rds of England would vote yes if given the opportunity, just to get rid of all the lies, whining and bitching currently coming from north of the border (and the perpetual blaming of England for the majority of Scottish woes).

And don't forget that when they are pulled up on that, they cry wolf and turn it upside down. Just like was done earlier in this thread.

 

[gman]

What if we get the currency union and England's economy improves but Scotland struggles for whatever reason? As the bank interest rate goes up are there not going to be an awful lot of people up here with variable rate mortgages in deep trouble? Surely we are better having control over our own central bank interest rate to control things?

 

[simonblue]

I had that conversation with a few scots in the office. They are severely p***ed off they can't vote and would love to vote no precisely because of that.

Then again there was also an EU student on the news living in Edinburgh for 8!months and apparently can vote. Is that true? I wonder why?

Thats wrong

 

[Byker28i]

So yesterday I was commentating on the financial implications, the issues of spending and tax.
Steep constantly accused me of lying.

Today's financial times has two interesting articles.
Commercial property deal are on hold, or exit clauses are being added if Scotland votes yes.
http://www.euro2day.gr/ftcom_en/article-ft-en/1252763/property-buyers-add-scottish-exit-clause.html

Investors, asset managers and pension fund managers are already moving billions of pound out of Scotland.

The daily express also reports that foreign investors are pulling their money out
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...s-Scottish-independence-Foreign-investors-GBP

Seems the financial markets around the world are very nervous of any Scottish financial plans and are preparing for a yes vote. As I said yesterday, it'll affect all of us and looks like it already is.

So no steep, not lies, but I doubt I'll get an apology.

 

[StewartR]

The biggest travesty in this campaign is that all the Scottish people who choose to live in England can't vote. I feel their frustrations right now.

But that's the way elections are always done. You vote where you are, not where you're from.

 

[BillN_33]

You guys seems to have missed what Gordon Brown and the three other Westminster muppets are promising Alex if he stays in the UK

For sanity sake let's get Scotland gone from the UK

Ahead of the UK leaders' visit, Mr Salmond said: "'I relish David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg coming to Scotland - collectively, they are the least trusted Westminster leaders ever, and this day trip will galvanise the 'Yes' vote.

Should Scotland be an independent country?
Latest poll: TNS-BMRB, 4 Sep 2014

• No…………... 39%
• Yes………….. . 38%
• Don't know………….. . 23%

That should change after their visit …….. 3 arrogant pillocks

 

[Bernie174]

A conversation a friend of mine who's a civil servant in a Uk department currently based in Scotland.
Mate asks co worker which way they are going to vote. She says "Yes".
Mate asks her what she's going to do for employment, to which she says, stay here. Mate points out its a UK Department, based in Scotland under the decentralisation thing, and would have nothing to do with Scotland if it was independent, and therefore would close and relocate in the UK. To which she says "Oh that wouldn't happen..."
As I said, too many people are being duped, lied too and misinformed.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

A conversation a friend of mine who's a civil servant in a Uk department currently based in Scotland.
Mate asks co worker which way they are going to vote. She says "Yes".
Mate asks her what she's going to do for employment, to which she says, stay here. Mate points out its a UK Department, based in Scotland under the decentralisation thing, and would have nothing to do with Scotland if it was independent, and therefore would close and relocate in the UK. To which she says "Oh that wouldn't happen..."
As I said, too many people are being duped, lied too and misinformed.

Which area of the Civil Service was this? Do you know with 100% certainty that the dept will close? And that if it did there would be absolutely no chance of redeployment? Or of a new Scottish Government taking over the dept for its own use? And that the girl will 100% lose her job?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

You guys seems to have missed what Gordon Brown and the three other Westminster muppets are promising Alex if he stays in the UK

For sanity sake let's get Scotland gone from the UK

Ahead of the UK leaders' visit, Mr Salmond said: "'I relish David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg coming to Scotland - collectively, they are the least trusted Westminster leaders ever, and this day trip will galvanise the 'Yes' vote.

Should Scotland be an independent country?
Latest poll: TNS-BMRB, 4 Sep 2014

• No…………... 39%
• Yes………….. . 38%
• Don't know………….. . 23%

That should change after their visit …….. 3 arrogant pillocks

I'm sure the 3 stooges will receive a warm Scottish

 

[Bernie174]

Its a UK department, so will be relocating, part of the MOD that the Scots wont have any need for. Obviously its up to the Scots CS if they redeploy her, but there's a lot of civil servants in Scotland who wont be required by the UK any more, and will have to compete for the limited number of additional Scots CS jobs, bearing in mind the Scots Civil Service already exists, and wont need that much adding to it to take up the full range of departments.

But that's her problem. The main point here though is although its one example, it seems that some are not very well informed about the implications of Independence.

 

[gman]

I'm sure the 3 stooges will receive a warm Scottish

I've no doubt the Nationalists will remain polite, civil and show maturity.

I don't mind DC all that much as an individual although he's a bit weak but the rest I can't stand. Miliband always looks like he is sneering.

 

[dejongj]

But that's the way elections are always done. You vote where you are, not where you're from.

Not entirely true. I can't vote for central government elections. But yet it does work that way for local government elections. Something as important as this I would have thought covers all citizens and not just residents.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Its a UK department, so will be relocating, part of the MOD that the Scots wont have any need for. Obviously its up to the Scots CS if they redeploy her, but there's a lot of civil servants in Scotland who wont be required by the UK any more, and will have to compete for the limited number of additional Scots CS jobs, baring in mind the Scots Civil Service already exists, and wont need that much adding to it to take up the full range of departments.

Fair comment, but in reality, no one actually knows exactly what will happen to those jobs, therefore at the moment it is all supposition.

 

[gman]

I do know one civil service job which will be safe, in fact he'll get a promotion and probably a big pay rise and a seventh pension no doubt!

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

I do know one civil service job which will be safe, in fact he'll get a promotion and probably a big pay rise and a seventh pension no doubt!

I'm sure he deserves it

 

[Steep]

Not entirely true. I can't vote for central government elections. But yet it does work that way for local government elections. Something as important as this I would have thought covers all citizens and not just residents.

This is not an election, it's a referendum and the rules are different.

 

[Bernie174]

Your aren't thinking that the UK Civil Servant jobs will remain in Scotland are you Bob?
That would not be tenable to the UK electorate when we have unemployment in the UK.

 

[StewartR]

This thing about Civil Service jobs.... I thought one of the 'No' arguments was that a separate Scottish state would be more expensive to set up and more expensive to run. But to the extent that's true, a fair chunk of that extra money would be spent on Civil Service jobs.

Obviously any UK-wide functions which are currently carried out in Scotland would have to relocate. Equally obviously, any functions required by Scotland and currently carried out on a UK-wide basis would have to be established in Scotland. But the net effect is an increase in jobs, so it's not obvious that we need to be worried about it creating unemployment.

One factor I don't know, however, is what proportion of UK civil service jobs are currently in Scotland. If it's very different from the approximately 10% population share, then relocation of the jobs might cause unemployment in some areas if people aren't willing or able to move with the jobs.

 

[StewartR]

That would not be tenable to the UK electorate when we have unemployment in the UK.

That's right, and none of us drive German cars either, and none of us use consumer electronics manufactured in China, because that would not be tenable when we have unemployment in the UK.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Your aren't thinking that the UK Civil Servant jobs will remain in Scotland are you Bob?
That would not be tenable to the UK electorate when we have unemployment in the UK.

Wasn't thinking that, but we don't know exactly how things will be juggled around, with some depts moving away, and possibly some moving back?

 

[Byker28i]

I was just reading the treason laws...
if a man do levy war against our lord the King in his realm, or be adherent to the King’s enemies in his realm, giving to them aid and comfort in the realm, or elsewhere.

if any person or persons ... shall endeavour to deprive or hinder any person who shall be the next in succession to the crown ... from succeeding after the decease of her Majesty (whom God long preserve) to the imperial crown of this realm and the dominions and territories thereunto belonging.
I wonder if that applies to the yes campaign

 

[Bernie174]

I am not sure you're right about an increase in jobs.
A lot of decentralized Civil Service jobs were set up in Scotland in the 70's/80's. Those are UK jobs, which as you say would return to the UK.
There's 31,000 ish UK Civil servant jobs in Scotland and already 17000 Scots CS posts.
Some of the UK jobs would obviously stay, Job Centre staff for example but most of HMRC would go. Yes, Scotland would need a revenue service, but 9000 staff for 4.5 million people?
Yes, theirs a new defence department to set up, although under SNP plans that's not going to be huge. You'd also loose a lot of the defence CS's already there, as they wouldn't be needed even if the Scots defence forces were as advertised by the SNP, however unlikely that is.
In all, Soctland isn't going to need the numbers that are currently employed by the CS, especially as it's a 'bloated' anyway.
The only place it'll need a boost is expensive senior posts.

Byker

Friad not, Scotland plans to keep the monarchy.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

I was just reading the treason laws...

the Treason Act 1702 (1 Anne stat. 2 c. 21), provides for a fifth category of treason, namely:

• "if any person or persons ... shall endeavour to deprive or hinder any person who shall be the next in succession to the crown ... from succeeding after the decease of her Majesty (whom God long preserve) to the imperial crown of this realm and the dominions and territories thereunto belonging".

I wonder if that applies to the yes campaign

NO! (Can't believe I just used that word)

 

[gman]

I'm sure he deserves it

Lol

 

[Steep]

Another 'big' name moves from no to yes. Ian Godden and his reasons for it.

http://www.yesscotland.net/news/top-energy-and-defence-figure-why-ive-switched-no-yes

 

[BillN_33]

IMHO

- the Yes campaign has "proved" it's case to the ordinary voter far better than the "no" campaign … the "Yes" camp get more credible as each day goes by

- emotionally the "Yes" campaign has got "hearts" on it's side

- much as I dislike him Alex Salmon has done a far "better" job than any person from the "No" side

- putting Gordon Brown, David Camera and Ed Milliband in front of the Scottish people can only gain votes for the "Yes" campaign - what relevance have Cameron or Clegg to ANY Scottish voter and Milliband is a lightweight

- there is belief in iScotland and apathy in the rest of the UK

- The "No" campaign in Scotland and in the UK seems to have been run by idiots, they have just about got everything wrong strategically, and the "worse Prime Minister" in recent history, Gordon Brown, coming in at the last minute is comical

- The "Yes" campaign have just about got their strategy right and are "peaking" at exactly the right time

………….

The fat man is about to sing

Westminster idiots versus canny Scots ……… who do you put your money on?

(Glad I'm a Yorkshireman)

 

[StewartR]

There's a good piece in the Guardian today about how a Scottish vote for independence would affect the UK civil service, a matter which is obviously of interest to the paper's core readership.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/10/yes-vote-scotland-change-civil-service

It says that Scotland has roughly 8% of the UK's population and 10% of its civil servants. So if functions can be relocated in both directions, it needn't be an intractable problem. For example there are lots of pensions processing staff in Scotland but few or no defence staff, so in principle they could be redeployed. Messy but not insurmountable is how the Grauniad describes it.

More interesting though is the observation that Scotland has relatively few senior civil servants there. Obviously that would need to change, but the article doesn't speculate on how it would be done.

In the cosmic scheme of things, this isn't a big issue. It's just one of those zillions of messy administrative details that need to be worked through.

 

[dejongj]

This is not an election, it's a referendum and the rules are different.

I was responding to someone comparing it with an election.

 

[gman]

I did read an article recently where it talked about how Scotland, when compared to England, has quite a large landmass to population ratio and therefore you have to take into consideration the fact that we still need to provide and maintain services to all of the more remote areas (roads, electricity, water etc) with far less returns in tax revenues from these same areas. I'm sure the immediate response would be Norway which has an even greater landmass to population ratio but again they do pay considerable more tax etc and besides we really need to stop comparing to other countries where there are so many differences to make it a reasonable comparison and just focus on what Scotland can do.

 

[Laudrup]

Living in Scotland I can see it being a yes vote. The no campaign had been too negative and feels like being dictated to and told off that you can't do something. Either way is a win for Scotland though as more powers are coming our way regardless of the yes or no. Wales and Northern Ireland won't be happy and will probably look for a better deal too.

 

[Steep]

So yesterday I was commentating on the financial implications, the issues of spending and tax.
Steep constantly accused me of lying.
Snip
So no steep, not lies, but I doubt I'll get an apology.

Not constantly, twice, but never let the truth get in the way of an exaggeration eh?

For reference this is the lie -

So you can see why Steep doesn't want his fair share of the debt.

Yesterday you made a lot of arguments but you 'continually' did and still do attack me personally in the process, do you think that your arguments are that weak that you need to use ad hominem?

Anyway as I've shown no apology is due you, so don't hold your breath.

 

[H2O]

For reference this is the lie -

It's only a lie if he believes it's not true. Otherwise it's just a mistake.

 

[dejongj]

I can hear the howling of the wolf....

 

[gman]

What I don't get about the WM lot is one minute they are saying they are going to give more powers then suddenly they are threatening border control etc. I have to admit it all feels very disorganised and this last minute rush makes me think that they weren't taking it seriously before until now - so will they take Scotland seriously afterwards if it's a no vote?