An Independent Scotland?

Blank_Canvas said:
Scotland will not get away 'scott free' and will take their share of the financial debt make no mistake Hugh. Payment will be based on population plus a per capita share based formula.
Never doubt that that is what we wish to do, though the amount will be negotiated

Deeper prosperity based heavily on oil cannot be guaranteed by anyone and depends on a range of factors not under Salmonds control He believes that there are 24bn barrels of oil equivalents of reserves – which includes gas – still lying under the seabed and waiting to be exploited. You couldn't make it up. It's pure conjecture nothing more than a guess !
Not Alex Salmond's guess though, estimates by the industry. Ian Woods said it and then a couple of months later said something else which has been disowned by experts including his own business management.
All three parties have stated that there will NO currency union !
I did hear that somewhere
Scotland will be responsible for their own benefits and taxes !
Whoop de doo!
The sums don't add up - Scotland can't financially afford to be Independent........!
You want sums, read the article in the link below.
............. but wait !!!!!! You the Scottish Taxpayer will be able to afford it - but end up paying taxes way beyond inflation !!!!
Click to expand...

I've added comment inside the quote but can I point you towards this http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/scottish-independence-uk-dependency
 
Steep said:
Incorrect if you mean by losing the traditional Scottish Labour vote, as has been pointed out many times on this thread only twice in 60 odd years has the Scots vote decided an election.
Click to expand...

the last one...which is more representative of the way the country now votes, with labour, tory, libdem and now ukip, the chances are that the more left leaning parties are going to be smaller market share than the centre or right wing parties.

Governor of the Bank of England saying no to pound sharing as well I see today....
 
Labour still stand to lose a lot of seats in Westminster though if Scotland go independent and that could effect future elections depending on how close they are.
 
Matt said:
Governor of the Bank of England saying no to pound sharing as well I see today....
Click to expand...

He didn't say anything he's hasn't said before and he skirted around the subject without actually saying no because he can't say no, it's not his place. What he said was he takes note of the three major parties opposition to CU and that it would be incompatible with sovereignty whatever that means.
 
Too many "experts" on this thread making too many assumptions on both sides. It's obvious that a lot of the answers can't be known until after the vote, and yes, by then it may be too late. There are many experts (not on here) on both sides that are not politicians, and they can't all be liars. They all have their opinions, and until we know for certain, that's all they are.
Many folks seem to bleat on about the so called underhand tactics used, primarily by the yes campaign, and how much we Scots are supposed to hate the English, yet on here, most of the sniping, bitterness, slagging etc in my opinion, appears to be coming from the no camp. The whole thread just keeps going round in circles, a bit like a stuck record.
I think its time for folks to grow up and act like mature adults. We will know the result in 9 days time, and I doubt anything said on here will alter the outcome.
And for the record, I don't "hate" the English, Westminster, no campaigners, yes campaigners, Alex Salmond or the Royal Family.
One things for certain though, I will vote yes next Thursday, and I hope we get the chance to prove all the negative doom and gloom folks wrong.:kiss:
 
Last edited:
so Gordon Brown is going to fu..k..up the UK economy again if Scotland says "No"

He is going to promise that Scotland can have a tax and spend policy higher than that of the UK and they will be allowed to borrow all they want on the Bond market.
They can tax what they want and spend what they want

No central control by the UK treasury

This could potentially b****r up sterling and cause significant problems for the rest of the UK

Everyone should now vote or support "Yes" "Yes" Yes
 
gman said:
Labour still stand to lose a lot of seats in Westminster though if Scotland go independent and that could effect future elections depending on how close they are.
Click to expand...

And we will probably see another hung Parliament - Con/UKIP
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Getting fed up with Salmonds ever growing 'smugness' on the news !
Click to expand...

Why shouldn't he feel smug? He gets constantly slagged off by all and sundry on the no side, constantly told he's a cheating liar, constantly told his vision for Scotland is crap, and is doomed to failure, yet the polls show that the large gap between yes and no is now pretty much non existent, and appears to be swinging in favour of a yes vote.
Pretty crap eh?
 
Steep said:
He didn't say anything he's hasn't said before and he skirted around the subject without actually saying no because he can't say no, it's not his place. What he said was he takes note of the three major parties opposition to CU and that it would be incompatible with sovereignty whatever that means.
Click to expand...

it means No, like you say, he cant say no. Except he has, in his own special way.

I think the No or English in this thread would probably have a slightly better tone if the questions posed where answered rather than completely ignored.

a few more things that i wonder about

how to get to edinburgh on a train....i go there often for business, but will i have to now to go an unspecified checkpoint to board the train like i do for going on Eurostar? I guess newcastle will be east coast mainline end point now? Berwick on Tweed maybe? who will run trains in scotland? network rail?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Why shouldn't he feel smug? He gets constantly slagged off by all and sundry on the no side, constantly told he's a cheating liar, constantly told his vision for Scotland is crap, and is doomed to failure, yet the polls show that the large gap between yes and no is now pretty much non existent, and appears to be swinging in favour of a yes vote.
Pretty crap eh?
Click to expand...
good salesman? Not everyone agrees with him...My personal opinion is he wants a page in history, he doesnt give a crap about whats going to happen 30 or 40 years down the line as long as his face is in the history books.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Why? He's not saying anything that we've not heard already.
Click to expand...

This was the bit that caught my eye

His remarks will be politically awkward for the Scottish first minister, who this morning told media that "the Governor of the Bank of England is in charge" of such arrangements.

So I take it that since Mr Salmond is never wrong then monetary union has just gone out of the window fully.
 
lost said:
This was the bit that caught my eye

His remarks will be politically awkward for the Scottish first minister, who this morning told media that "the Governor of the Bank of England is in charge" of such arrangements.

So I take it that since Mr Salmond is never wrong then monetary union has just gone out of the window fully.
Click to expand...

He (Carney) is in charge of the arrangements, but has no say in whether such arrangements are made.
 
dejongj said:
It is privatisation. And the trust is controlled by the Scottish executive. Despite funding coming from Westminster. Unfortunately I've been at the receiving end of it a while ago as a supplier to the DoH when trying to finalise the contractual implementation in Scotland. It was being thwarted at every single opportunity with local variations.
Click to expand...
Privatisation is an existing public service being turned over to be serviced by a private company. In this case all existing public services are being retained, and additional private service is being offered on top. That's a different thing.
 
Steep said:
He (Carney) is in charge of the arrangements, but has no say in whether such arrangements are made.
Click to expand...

and the 3 main political parties all say no. There isnt anyone else left to ask?
 
Matt said:
and the 3 main political parties all say no. There isnt anyone else left to ask?
Click to expand...

They say no today Matt, what they say in 3-6-9 months time may be completely different.
 
One other thing i dont agree with is the way that politics have been bought into the campaign, Salmond today saying that independence will save the NHS...in a referendum toe question is do you want to be an independent country, by telling people that they can only save the NHS by being independent is disingenuous as the labour party also want to save it (even though they also started privatising services) He's appealing to the weak-minded thick people who don't know that independence isnt about Left or Right ideology.
 
Steep said:
They say no today Matt, what they say in 3-6-9 months time may be completely different.
Click to expand...

I doubt it, they all know what the sentiment for that idea is south of the border, it would be extremely unpopular with English voters (at a time when there is a good chance of none of the parties doing that well at the next election).
 
Steep said:
They say no today Matt, what they say in 3-6-9 months time may be completely different.
Click to expand...

maybe, but right now its no, and i don't see why that needs to change.
 
Scotland still saying no to there share of the debts if they don't get there money union thingy?
 
eeyore said:
Scotland still saying no to there share of the debts if they don't get there money union thingy?
Click to expand...

Might help if you actually read the thread, or at least the last couple of pages ;)
 
lost said:
This was the bit that caught my eye

His remarks will be politically awkward for the Scottish first minister, who this morning told media that "the Governor of the Bank of England is in charge" of such arrangements.

So I take it that since Mr Salmond is never wrong then monetary union has just gone out of the window fully.
Click to expand...
Once again - until the vote is done EVERYTHING is just political posturing and positioning. Look at the GBP recently - money markets are taking note of the YouGov poll and realising Scottish independence is more likely than they've priced in. That means UK debt may no longer be backed by oil, but by the product of rUK exports only. Consequently the GBP is tumbling. It's correct Carney is in charge of such matters related to that (at least as far as rUK agreeing to any union), consequently Osborne, Carney and the like are (once again) playing the sad old fear card to try and scare Scots into doing what they want.

It has nothing to do with any facts, or what will actually happen - that we'll find after the vote.

From Scotland's viewpoint, no currency union? No accepting of any part of existing GBP debt. Spectacularly bad for rUK and GBP value, and just as bad for Scotland, as borrowing costs would be high. Frankly I think that would be a good thing rather than a bad, as it forces suit to be cut to fit cloth from the start, and eliminates the toxic deficit-spending, lets-throw-the-repayments-to-the-children nonsense that has got us where we are today. But I fully expect common sense to prevail, and as Mr. Salmond and Messrs Carney/Osborne have guns at each other's head, neither will pull the trigger and the posturing will stop.

Either way - such threats and fear mongering are real getting tired. And people wonder why Scotland is tired of Westminster? As I've said before, I'm amazed England isn't tired of Westminster. England/Scotland and UK is not the problem - it's the way it's ruled. Independence(*) is just a way out.

(*) Independence-lite. Has restrictions in some areas. May involve using another nation's sovereign, or monetary system.
 
Last edited:
I guess yes, if you lot north of the border don't stump up any cash I think we should pull back anything we can.
 
eeyore said:
I guess yes, if you lot north of the border don't stump up any cash I think we should pull back anything we can.
Click to expand...

Quite right too!
 
Steep said:
Quite right too!
Click to expand...

So you think Scotland should start its defence force from scratch?

No army, air-force or navey... (ignore the subs for a bit, till we find a new parking spot for them)
 
eeyore said:
So you think Scotland should start its defence force from scratch?

No army, air-force or navey... (ignore the subs for a bit, till we find a new parking spot for them)
Click to expand...

Absolutely because Scotland can afford it ! The First Minister has decreed.

You will also need a massive warehouse to contain all the spares and stores and a slick end-to-end supply chain. Billions of pounds worth of stores in fact.
 
The biggest travesty in this campaign is that all the Scottish people who choose to live in England can't vote. I feel their frustrations right now.
 
eeyore said:
So you think Scotland should start its defence force from scratch?

No army, air-force or navey... (ignore the subs for a bit, till we find a new parking spot for them)
Click to expand...

It'll be negotiations, give and take, no give no take and vice versa.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
The biggest travesty in this campaign is that all the Scottish people who choose to live in England can't vote. I feel their frustrations right now.
Click to expand...
Curiously, and hypothetically, I'm sure there are a lot that would vote yes,
that are living south of the boarder.
I wonder if there would be a mass migration, should it end as a "yes"?
 
Cobra said:
Curiously, and hypothetically, I'm sure there are a lot that would vote yes,
that are living south of the boarder.
I wonder if there would be a mass migration, should it end as a "yes"?
Click to expand...

And conversely a lot won't - but we will never know and they won't have a say which I think is wrong. Ironically, if you are English and live in Scotland you can vote ! My son is going to be voting 'No' on the 18th.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
And conversely a lot won't - but we will never know and they won't have a say which I think is wrong. Ironically, if you are English and live in Scotland you can vote ! .
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then I agree with you, it is wrong.
It'd be easy enough to prove you were born in Scotland if you wanted to vote.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top