Amy Winehouse Found Dead.

[srichards]

I think Lemmy is still here as he had the sense to stay away from cocaine and heroine. From what others said he is also a functional drug user ie life still goes on without him being incapacitated by it. Don't think he's ever been drunk enough to fall off stage or miss a gig.

Like Bill Hicks said, we don't hear any positive drug stories.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

She didn't have a disease, and could have stopped drugs at any time she wanted. If anything her failure to get clean with the resources she had at her disposal is shameful.

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. Whilst the ingestion of drugs or alcohol may not in themselves have been a disease they appear, as with most addicts, to have been a crutch to help her deal with underlying psychological issues.

Ultimately it was those that killed the lass, not anything that she drank, smoked or snorted.

 

[boyfalldown]

I'm sorry, but I beg to differ. Whilst the ingestion of drugs or alcohol may not in themselves have been a disease they appear, as with most addicts, to have been a crutch to help her deal with underlying psychological issues.

Ultimately it was those that killed the lass, not anything that she drank, smoked or snorted.

yep - I agree totally, although her cause of death hasn't been announced yet. So everybody who has been very quick to assume & condemn may be proved very wrong

 

[big soft moose]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I wouldn't want some of the people on this thread on my jury if I was ever wrongly accused of a serious crime. Ironically they'd all want those of us who're more compassionate on theirs.

lol its like the old saying

a conservative is a liberal who has been a victim of crime
a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested

(using the words liberal and conservative in their non part political sense)

 

[ding76uk]

Like Bill Hicks said, we don't hear any positive drug stories.

I always thought Hicks had a point with this though.

Drugs can be fun. Being Drunk can be fun, We try to educate people away from them by preaching how dangerous they are, how there is nothing to them but doom and gloom, and everyone who tries them gets hooked. If that were truly the case then no one would be dumb enough to do them at all.

A more rounded education on drugs should be in place. I feel that if something is preached as purely bad, kids see there must be something else to it (kids are like it with booze a lot when younger).

I do feel that ex drug addicts should be involved in drugs education. I feel this constant preaching the evils does no good, purely because in a lot of cases the kids know more than those teaching them.



I speak as a non drug user just in case anyone were interested.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

A more rounded education on drugs should be in place. I feel that if something is preached as purely bad, kids see there must be something else to it (kids are like it with booze a lot when younger).

I do feel that ex drug addicts should be involved in drugs education. I feel this constant preaching the evils does no good, purely because in a lot of cases the kids know more than those teaching them.

Ultimately, as the yearly drink drive campaigns have shown, education has little or no effect on behaviour, those that wish to drink or take drugs will do so, regardless of any campaigns to persuade them to do otherwise.

It also doesn't help that both vices are generally shown in a positive light by Hollywood, much in the way that smoking was glamourised in an earlier age.

 

[Lynton]

Whilst not on a totally personal footing, I have seen the consequences of people at work who have suffered from their use of drugs or drink.
One bloke actually saw fit to give up a well paid job as a result of taking drugs, he moved away to live with his parents.
We had another bloke who had lied about his medical records when he was employed (the only way our employer could terminate his contract and sack him). Whether he was constantly stoned, I don't know, but he would sit inside the tooling he was building and needing to clean it down would fill it with thinners, literally soaking himself in flammable liquid. He would even eat plastic bonding fillers just to see what they tasted like and the whole time he was either sleeping rough in the subways close to the factory or in the factory toilet cubicles.
We have a bloke in his mid to late thirties who is an alcoholic, he has had previous councelling from the firm and has just spent a fortnight in hospital due to organ failure. In fact we have several alcoholics of various degrees who all work together so are probably feeding off each other as for some it has become necessity whils tothers just see it as acceptable.
One work colleague who works in my department, is highly unstable due to past drug abuse. He suffers from high states of paranoia, he also likes a good drink. This bloke has a 16 yr old daughter who is singing in a girl group. The other night he went to see them perform and yet he felt he had the need to get completely off his face from drink at the performance, he failed to turn up for work the next day and never woke until midmorning.
We have another bloke who literally is now permanently on another planet. He now talks to himself, he'll go and have a lay down on the locker room floor during the middle of the shift and have a sleep, even though he has been caught doing so several times in the past.
We have two other blokes who will have several spliffs throughout the course of a working day ontop of what they will smoke outside of work. They are so hooked on them, they are miserable as sin within minutes of finishing a spliff and are already craving the next.
I've seen more than my liking of drink and drug abuse and I still don't understand it. It's not as if they have come from a world of having nothing and are in a position of havin gto steel for it or anything like that but they are all in a position of having destroyed or given up on a part of their lives which for some has only affected their own lives for others it is affecting their families, friends and work aquaintances.

So you are obviously not the only one to notice this, so why are HR not doing their bit?

 

[Lynton]

I always thought Hicks had a point with this though.

Drugs can be fun. Being Drunk can be fun, We try to educate people away from them by preaching how dangerous they are, how there is nothing to them but doom and gloom, and everyone who tries them gets hooked. If that were truly the case then no one would be dumb enough to do them at all.

A more rounded education on drugs should be in place. I feel that if something is preached as purely bad, kids see there must be something else to it (kids are like it with booze a lot when younger).

I do feel that ex drug addicts should be involved in drugs education. I feel this constant preaching the evils does no good, purely because in a lot of cases the kids know more than those teaching them.



I speak as a non drug user just in case anyone were interested.

sensible words.

 

[cambsno]

Mod edit.

 

[AD_Capturs]

Mod edit

 

[BFT999]

Apologies before I start,I have not read all the posts, this may have come up before.. The posts I have read so far compare Amy to "normal" addicts, we all know that they come from all walks of life and backgrounds, but the average "Junkie" "Alki" or "dopehead" do not have the support and backing that Amy would have had.. I can't see her standing in the pouring rain every night looking for a dealer to score from.. Someone must have at some time got it to her, her friends, record company and to some extent her family must share some blame.. she had all the support and the wherefor all to rid herself of the habit, or at least keep it under control,, Her notoriety paid her and he hangers ons wages..It was in their interest to keep her in the paper whatever the cost.

In the course of my job I have met literally dozens of addicts who can't even get on a methadone course.

Tragic waste of a young talented woman, however she shouldn't be compared to every addict,, she had the means to at least control her addiction.. the majority of others die after jagging themselves in a scummy dosshouse, alone and dirty. I,ve been to a number of fatals with drugs none of the pretty. They all had mothers fathers sisters and brothers.
RIP Amy...

 

[big soft moose]

course on the other hand the average junkie wouldnt have had a virtually unlimited income to spend on horse , or the pressure of the media spotlight when they were trying to come off - apart from cash , which is a double edged sword i cant actually see much sign of a support network for her - her husband is a junkie and probably responsible for getting her hooked and she'd have been surrounded by suck ups who only cared about what they could get from her rather than about her

the music buisness is a filthy industry for that kind of thing - theres a bit in an eminem track (someone else who isnt without drug problems though he does seem to have got clean lately) which describes it pretty well

".. I thought money would make me happy, but it only made the pain worse
it hurts when your freinds turn their back on you dawg
and your new 'freinds' come arround, begging with their hands out..."

amy wouldnt have needed to stand on street corners to score because the dealers would have come to her - but if/when she was trying to get clean she'd have been surrounded by dealers and dopers and hypocrites interested only in what they could get - not exactly the surportive atmosphere thats needed to break a habit

 

[nilagin]

So you are obviously not the only one to notice this, so why are HR not doing their bit?

The place has become so PC, they probably couldn't intervene unless the people actually asked for help themselves. Our management can't or won't even sack people now. Someone would have to do something seriously bad to get sacked now.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

The place has become so PC, they probably couldn't intervene unless the people actually asked for help themselves. Our management can't or won't even sack people now. Someone would have to do something seriously bad to get sacked now.

Turn up in a Vauxhall?

 

[Splog]

Many years ago I was in India and visited a bar in the middle of nowhere, I call it a bar but really it was just a shack with a few tables, a fridge and music.

That night I had quite a few beers and after running out of ciggies I noticed a guy selling 'roll ups', or so I thought. Considering I was quite ****ed at the time please do forgive my wayward ways as I decided to try the 'smokes' a bit expensive though! a bottle of 'Kings' for a smoke ..... Several 'smokes' later my jaw felt funny, my teeth were vibrating but it wasn't unpleasant... just strange!

As the music continued to beat I was aware of just how handsome I was and my dancing skills were beyond that of mere mortals, I was the best, I was amazing and I knew everyone was watching and in awe of my stunning good looks and amazing dancing ability

As the night progressed and the beer flowed and the 'smokes' kept coming the jaw and teeth started to feel normal and I felt strong, strong enough to fight anyone. I wasn't scared of anything or anyone, not even the Police who had just arrived. Fortunately my taxi driver had been waiting and took me back to the hotel.

That night I had two of the most fantastic, colourful dreams I have ever experienced either before or after.

I had two dreams, the first was real scary but amazing..... I really could fly and go anywhere, do anything but something was after me, wanted to eat me. The second dream was a step back in time... I was young, with my best friend ever, my pet dog Timmy. It really was an amazing experience.

That was my first and last experience of drugs. Would I use them again? .. No! but I have been tempted at times as it really was an amazing adventure, such wonderful dreams and such wonderful feelings.

Honestly, one of the best nights of my life.

 

[nilagin]

Turn up in a Vauxhall?

We shoot any that get withing a 5 mile radius of the plant.

 

[mercedes]

Many years ago I was in India and visited a bar in the middle of nowhere, I call it a bar but really it was just a shack with a few tables, a fridge and music.

That night I had quite a few beers and after running out of ciggies I noticed a guy selling 'roll ups', or so I thought. Considering I was quite ****ed at the time please do forgive my wayward ways as I decided to try the 'smokes' a bit expensive though! a bottle of 'Kings' for a smoke ..... Several 'smokes' later my jaw felt funny, my teeth were vibrating but it wasn't unpleasant... just strange!

As the music continued to beat I was aware of just how handsome I was and my dancing skills were beyond that of mere mortals, I was the best, I was amazing and I knew everyone was watching and in awe of my stunning good looks and amazing dancing ability

As the night progressed and the beer flowed and the 'smokes' kept coming the jaw and teeth started to feel normal and I felt strong, strong enough to fight anyone. I wasn't scared of anything or anyone, not even the Police who had just arrived. Fortunately my taxi driver had been waiting and took me back to the hotel.

That night I had two of the most fantastic, colourful dreams I have ever experienced either before or after.

I had two dreams, the first was real scary but amazing..... I really could fly and go anywhere, do anything but something was after me, wanted to eat me. The second dream was a step back in time... I was young, with my best friend ever, my pet dog Timmy. It really was an amazing experience.

That was my first and last experience of drugs. Would I use them again? .. No! but I have been tempted at times as it really was an amazing adventure, such wonderful dreams and such wonderful feelings.

Honestly, one of the best nights of my life.

That's one amazing story and what keeps many going back for more - chasing the dragon! - every time you try to recreate those amazing moments again . . . they become more elusive . . . and painful.

 

[Byker28i]

On a side note Marcel, you could always enable the 'Like' facility. I know that it's there in vB4 but not so sure about this version!

Off topic, but no - don't. I can't see any use for them. You can always post a comment like Marcel did.

 

[AD_Capturs]

Many years ago I was in India and visited a bar in the middle of nowhere, I call it a bar but really it was just a shack with a few tables, a fridge and music.

That night I had quite a few beers and after running out of ciggies I noticed a guy selling 'roll ups', or so I thought. Considering I was quite ****ed at the time please do forgive my wayward ways as I decided to try the 'smokes' a bit expensive though! a bottle of 'Kings' for a smoke ..... Several 'smokes' later my jaw felt funny, my teeth were vibrating but it wasn't unpleasant... just strange!

As the music continued to beat I was aware of just how handsome I was and my dancing skills were beyond that of mere mortals, I was the best, I was amazing and I knew everyone was watching and in awe of my stunning good looks and amazing dancing ability

As the night progressed and the beer flowed and the 'smokes' kept coming the jaw and teeth started to feel normal and I felt strong, strong enough to fight anyone. I wasn't scared of anything or anyone, not even the Police who had just arrived. Fortunately my taxi driver had been waiting and took me back to the hotel.

That night I had two of the most fantastic, colourful dreams I have ever experienced either before or after.

I had two dreams, the first was real scary but amazing..... I really could fly and go anywhere, do anything but something was after me, wanted to eat me. The second dream was a step back in time... I was young, with my best friend ever, my pet dog Timmy. It really was an amazing experience.

That was my first and last experience of drugs. Would I use them again? .. No! but I have been tempted at times as it really was an amazing adventure, such wonderful dreams and such wonderful feelings.

Honestly, one of the best nights of my life.

A very honest story, I can't doubt drugs ain't nice as there has to be something to keep attracting people to do them.

 

[The23rdman]

Originally Posted by nilagin
Not pointing a finger at any specific people but I'm beggining to get a feeling we have some current drug users posting in this thread, even if it is on a social/recreational" basis.

Do you drink? Have you ever? If you have then you are a drug user. Demarcation based on what the law calls a drug is frankly unintelligent. Alcohol and nicotine cause way more problems than any recreational drug... and most class A drugs. The only effective way to deal with drug 'problems' is to legalise the use of them and stop turning people into criminals.

Oh, and yes, I enjoyed many years of recreational drug use (not abuse) alongside a drink, but managed to give them up before I started eating children or going insane. I did, however, open my mind and consciousness and become a much more open-hearted and compassionate man.

 

[Grizu]

Originally Posted by nilagin
Not pointing a finger at any specific people but I'm beggining to get a feeling we have some current drug users posting in this thread, even if it is on a social/recreational" basis.

Do you drink? Have you ever? If you have then you are a drug user. Demarcation based on what the law calls a drug is frankly unintelligent. Alcohol and nicotine cause way more problems than any recreational drug... and most class A drugs. The only effective way to deal with drug 'problems' is to legalise the use of them and stop turning people into criminals.

Oh, and yes, I enjoyed many years of recreational drug use (not abuse) alongside a drink, but managed to give them up before I started eating children or going insane. I did, however, open my mind and consciousness and become a much more open-hearted and compassionate man.

Thank you for bringing a sense of reality to this discussion as it is very much needed, Ive been reading this thread as it gained momentum, sometimes dipping into the absurd but you have nailed a point that has so far been skimmed over. We nearly all "self medicate" to get away from problems, detach ourselves from the mundane or just because we feel like it.

Making a distinction between drugs and drink because of the legality of each is, as put before " unintelligent" and ultimately wrong.

Anyone who thinks otherwise please visit your local A and E at about 1am on a Friday night and see the real problems "drugs" cause, some illegal but most legal.

 

[ding76uk]

I think the way to look at alcohol and nicotine as a drug would be, if they were suddenly found tomorrow for the first time, would the government make them legal?

The answer is a resounding no. Alcohol is one of the nastiest drugs once it gets hold and the only one you cannot just "cut off". Even heroin you can stop dead and suffer no damage from doing so. If you are a severe alcoholic you cannot just stop drinking, as it can in fact kill you. You need to ween off it, the only drug I am aware of that does.

 

[cambsno]

Making a distinction between drugs and drink because of the legality of each is, as put before " unintelligent" and ultimately wrong.

Anyone who thinks otherwise please visit your local A and E at about 1am on a Friday night and see the real problems "drugs" cause, some illegal but most legal.

Not sure I get this. If taken to excess alcohol can lead to trips to A&E, smoking pretty much doesnt though. Taking anything to excess, even water, can lead to a trip to hospital. If taken in moderation, alcohol can actually be beneficial to health whereas even in moderation heroin can kill and people have died on one ecstasy tablet.

Ok, I dont have any stats to hand, but would bet that long term use of drugs is generally far more dangerous than drinking. And like it or not, tobacco and alcohol are legal whereas other drugs are not.

Put it this way, your 17 year old son comes home and says he has been drinking, 99% of us would do nothing as we did that at his age and is pretty harmless. Your other 17 year old son comes home and says he has taken cocaine... would you think the same?

 

[ding76uk]

Here is a comparison from one of the drug types website, bear in mind these are long term effects

ALCOHOL

What are its long-term effects?
Prolonged, heavy use of alcohol can lead to addiction (alcoholism). Sudden cessation of long term, extensive alcohol intake is likely to produce withdrawal symptoms, including severe anxiety, tremors, hallucinations and convulsions. Long-term effects of consuming large quantities of alcohol, especially when combined with poor nutrition, can lead to permanent damage to vital organs such as the brain and liver. In addition, mothers who drink alcohol during pregnancy may give birth to infants with fetal alcohol syndrome. These infants may suffer from mental retardation and other irreversible physical abnormalities. In addition, research indicates that children of alcoholic parents are at greater risk than other children of becoming alcoholics.
Think you know the facts about alcohol abuse? If you consume alcoholic beverages, it’s important to know whether your drinking patterns are safe, risky or harmful.

WEED (Marijuana)

What are its long-term effects?
Marijuana smoke contains some of the same cancer-causing compounds as tobacco, sometimes in higher concentrations. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

Ecstasy

What are its long-term effects?
Repeated use of Ecstasy ultimately may damage the cells that produce serotonin, which has an important role in the regulation of mood, appetite, pain, learning and memory. There already is research suggesting Ecstasy use can disrupt or interfere with memory.


Cocaine

What are its long-term effects?
High doses of cocaine and/or prolonged use can trigger paranoia. Smoking crack cocaine can produce a particularly aggressive paranoid behavior in users. When addicted individuals stop using cocaine, they often become depressed. Prolonged cocaine snorting can result in ulceration of the mucous membrane of the nose.


Heroin

What are its long-term effects?
Long-term effects of heroin appear after repeated use for some period of time. Chronic users may develop collapsed veins, infection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulites, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin’s depressing effects on respiration. In addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not really dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. With regular heroin use, tolerance develops. This means the abuser must use more heroin to achieve the same intensity or effect.

As higher doses are used over time, physical dependence and addiction develop. With physical dependence, the body has adapted to the presence of the drug and withdrawal symptoms may occur if use is reduced or stopped. Withdrawal, which in regular abusers may occur as early as a few hours after the last administration, produces drug craving, restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea and vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps (“cold turkey&#8221, kicking movements (“kicking the habit&#8221, and other symptoms. Major withdrawal symptoms peak between 48 and 72 hours after the last does and subside after about a week. Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health can be fatal.



Just goes to show that Booze is up there with the worst and would easily be a Class A if released today.

As for the admitting he went boozing vs taking coke. That is down to conditioning and social acceptance rather than damage caused. Most have abused alcohol so see it as OK. Plus 99% would not admit hard drug use to their parents due to the reaction it would get, instead getting their knowledge from "the streets" rather than someone with knowledge

 

[GrittyShaker]

Not sure I get this. If taken to excess alcohol can lead to trips to A&E, smoking pretty much doesnt though. Taking anything to excess, even water, can lead to a trip to hospital. If taken in moderation, alcohol can actually be beneficial to health whereas even in moderation heroin can kill and people have died on one ecstasy tablet.

Ok, I dont have any stats to hand, but would bet that long term use of drugs is generally far more dangerous than drinking. And like it or not, tobacco and alcohol are legal whereas other drugs are not.

Put it this way, your 17 year old son comes home and says he has been drinking, 99% of us would do nothing as we did that at his age and is pretty harmless. Your other 17 year old son comes home and says he has taken cocaine... would you think the same?

This (in bold) is incredibly misleading. Heroin and Ecstasy, in moderation (certainly not one hit, or pill), will not kill a person, and are chemically no more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco. You can OD on Heroin, same as you can on alcohol. You can OD on E, same as you can on alcohol.

The instances you see in the news, about people dying from a hit of Heroin, are because they have used a dirty needle, injected too much (as the purity of Heroin bought from a street dealer is never known), etc.

People who have died from a tab of E haven't died because of the MDMA content. They've either taken too many, let themselves get dehydrated, or they've simply bought a dodgy one with dodgy chemicals in it (again, the purity of Ecstasy can never be guaranteed when bought from a street dealer).

I'm not condoning the actual abuse of substances, but in moderation they probably do less harm than alcohol and tobacco. If the government legalised and regulated illegal substances we would have a lot fewer cases of people dying as a result of taking them recreationally.

 

[realspeed]

I always thought Hicks had a point with this though.

Drugs can be fun. Being Drunk can be fun, We try to educate people away from them by preaching how dangerous they are, how there is nothing to them but doom and gloom, and everyone who tries them gets hooked. If that were truly the case then no one would be dumb enough to do them at all.

A more rounded education on drugs should be in place. I feel that if something is preached as purely bad, kids see there must be something else to it (kids are like it with booze a lot when younger).

I do feel that ex drug addicts should be involved in drugs education. I feel this constant preaching the evils does no good, purely because in a lot of cases the kids know more than those teaching them.



I speak as a non drug user just in case anyone were interested.

I never ever thought I would see someone posting this

Realspeed

 

[GrittyShaker]

I never ever thought I would see someone posting this

Realspeed

The truth hurts.

 

[DemiLion]

Yup.

 

[CT]

LOL. Do you ever wish you'd never started a thread?

I'm not advocating sympathy for Amy Winehouse - she's dead! Her family and friends and those who loved her are the ones who need our sympathy now. The Amy Winehouse we saw of late was a shambling sad shadow of what she once was - none of us knew her in the slightest. Her father said she'd largely got herself off the drugs of late saying she was sick of the way her family and friends looked at her.

I don't think we can say she wasn't making any effort - if she'd died of the massive drugs /drink overdose we all suspected we wouldn't be waiting a month for toxicology/biopsy reports to establish the cause of death.

 

[Grizu]

Not sure I get this. If taken to excess alcohol can lead to trips to A&E, smoking pretty much doesnt though. Taking anything to excess, even water, can lead to a trip to hospital. If taken in moderation, alcohol can actually be beneficial to health whereas even in moderation heroin can kill and people have died on one ecstasy tablet.

Ok, I dont have any stats to hand, but would bet that long term use of drugs is generally far more dangerous than drinking. And like it or not, tobacco and alcohol are legal whereas other drugs are not.

Put it this way, your 17 year old son comes home and says he has been drinking, 99% of us would do nothing as we did that at his age and is pretty harmless. Your other 17 year old son comes home and says he has taken cocaine... would you think the same?

I would love to put the worms back in the can but seen as its opened its gonna be a hard one.

Definition of drug:
drug (drug)
1. a chemical substance that affects the processes of the mind or body.
2. any chemical compound used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of disease or other abnormal condition.
3. a substance used recreationally for its effects on the central nervous system, such as a narcotic.
4. to administer a drug to.

I think you answered your own question in a way, the important word is moderation. I think the drinking culture in Britain posses a far greater problem both in the longterm health effects and in the short term social effects than the problems caused by mis-use of illegal drugs. It is that ingrained in society that it has become transparent both in youth culture and adults.

The sooner people realise that there is no distinction between drugs and drink and that they are one and the same, in the wrong hands damaging, dangerous and addictive but taken in moderation in the right hands a good experience and an avenue to escape the pressure and worry modern day life carries with it.

Most people can moderate and do it usually without knowing but if they overstep the line which will usually be an isolated incident, i.e. drink driving conviction, trip to A and E something will kick in and they will actively try to find help and as said, with a good support network will try steer themselves back into a "normal life"

Some people just don't have the strength of character to do this, that is life and with all the support in the world will fail. We have just witnessed this in the demise of Amy, deep down I can't say Im surprised but it doesn't detract from my sadness both for her death and for the people who loved her that will be left holding the flowers wondering if there was more they could have done.

Alas the answer to that seems to be a resounding no.

 

[The23rdman]

I would love to put the worms back in the can but seen as its opened its gonna be a hard one.

Definition of drug:
drug (drug)
1. a chemical substance that affects the processes of the mind or body.
2. any chemical compound used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of disease or other abnormal condition.
3. a substance used recreationally for its effects on the central nervous system, such as a narcotic.
4. to administer a drug to.

I think you answered your own question in a way, the important word is moderation. I think the drinking culture in Britain posses a far greater problem both in the longterm health effects and in the short term social effects than the problems caused by mis-use of illegal drugs. It is that ingrained in society that it has become transparent both in youth culture and adults.

The sooner people realise that there is no distinction between drugs and drink and that they are one and the same, in the wrong hands damaging, dangerous and addictive but taken in moderation in the right hands a good experience and an avenue to escape the pressure and worry modern day life carries with it.

Most people can moderate and do it usually without knowing but if they overstep the line which will usually be an isolated incident, i.e. drink driving conviction, trip to A and E something will kick in and they will actively try to find help and as said, with a good support network will try steer themselves back into a "normal life"

Some people just don't have the strength of character to do this, that is life and with all the support in the world will fail. We have just witnessed this in the demise of Amy, deep down I can't say Im surprised but it doesn't detract from my sadness both for her death and for the people who loved her that will be left holding the flowers wondering if there was more they could have done.

Alas the answer to that seems to be a resounding no.

Well said.

 

[big soft moose]

The sooner people realise that there is no distinction between drugs and drink and that they are one and the same, in the wrong hands damaging, dangerous and addictive but taken in moderation in the right hands a good experience and an avenue to escape the pressure and worry modern day life carries with it.

.

I'm not sure that it is ever a good idea to take hard drugs like heroin recreationally even in moderation - but it is certainly true that opiates can be used medicinally (as pain killers) and there is very little difference between diamorphine (used for extreme pain control in terminal cancer patients etc) and pure heroin

Likewise there is some interesting research being done that shows that MDMA (the active ingredient in ecstacy) could be useful in the treatment of altzeimers (also true of thalidomide - which although not a recreational drug did a great deal of damage when prescribed for morning sickness during preganancy)

Also while i'm not advocating recreational use of any drug (including alcohol or nicotine) the reason that there have been deaths from one ecstacy tablet or from a moderate ammount of heroin , is all the crap that dealers cut them with - for example ecstacy is often cut with strychniene.

At the end of the day any drug or substance is not inherently 'good' or 'bad' it is the use it is put to that matters

 

[big soft moose]

.

People who have died from a tab of E haven't died because of the MDMA content. They've either taken too many, let themselves get dehydrated, or they've simply bought a dodgy one with dodgy chemicals in it
.

just to add , one of the other common causes of people hospitalising themselve with ecstacy is that they take a tab, start to feel a bit funny, and then remember that they've been told to drink water - and subsequently drink far too much, dilute the blood in their brain and put themselves into a 'water overdose coma'

you only need to drink a lot of water if you've been dancing for hours and sweating like a pig.

 

[Splog]

dilute the blood in their brain

So, how does this work ?

 

[H2O]

Originally Posted by nilagin
Not pointing a finger at any specific people but I'm beggining to get a feeling we have some current drug users posting in this thread, even if it is on a social/recreational" basis.

Do you drink? Have you ever? If you have then you are a drug user. Demarcation based on what the law calls a drug is frankly unintelligent. Alcohol and nicotine cause way more problems than any recreational drug... and most class A drugs. The only effective way to deal with drug 'problems' is to legalise the use of them and stop turning people into criminals.

Oh, and yes, I enjoyed many years of recreational drug use (not abuse) alongside a drink, but managed to give them up before I started eating children or going insane. I did, however, open my mind and consciousness and become a much more open-hearted and compassionate man.

So the biggest problem drugs are the legal ones and yet you say legalisation is the best way to deal with drugs?

I'd hate to see the state of the UK if alcohol was illegal


Personally, as a non drinker i don't see the attraction of any mind altering drugs. If you can't gain enough enjoyment from your life just being yourself then you've got issues.

 

[big soft moose]

As the music continued to beat I was aware of just how handsome I was and my dancing skills were beyond that of mere mortals, I was the best, I was amazing and I knew everyone was watching and in awe of my stunning good looks and amazing dancing ability....I felt strong, strong enough to fight anyone. I wasn't scared of anything or anyone, not even the Police who had just arrived...

I have that feeling quite often - but just a result of my amazing good looks, incredidble intellect, stunning physique, and other manly attributes

Okay so that 'may' be a slight exageration but theres a serious point that if anyone needs to take drugs before they can feel great about themselves then its one step on the road to a psychological additiction - and if people can feel great about themselves when sober despite not having the body of adonis and the dancing skills of fred astaire ( I do have the body of a god... but unfortunately its Buhda) then why take drugs (including alcohol etc) for a recreational high.

I'm not knocking those that do - as i said earlier i have been there myself in a low period of my life, when i was essentially using them to hide from greif and survivor guilt - but the idea that its okay or acceptable to use drugs recreationally in moderation is a dangerous one - as far too many people (quite probably Amy included) start off thinking they can handle it only to wind up addicted and dependent

 

[GrittyShaker]

just to add , one of the other common causes of people hospitalising themselve with ecstacy is that they take a tab, start to feel a bit funny, and then remember that they've been told to drink water - and subsequently drink far too much, dilute the blood in their brain and put themselves into a 'water overdose coma'

you only need to drink a lot of water if you've been dancing for hours and sweating like a pig.

Aye, I should've added an "etc" to the end of my sentence.

That's what killed Leah Betts.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

This (in bold) is incredibly misleading. Heroin and Ecstasy, in moderation (certainly not one hit, or pill), will not kill a person

To think that someone cannot be killed by "one hit, or pill" is naive in the extreme, particularly as the word "moderation" cannot be applied to either heroin or ecstasy as neither comes in prescribed doses. One wrap or pill can vary hugely in quality and potency from the next, depending on how heavily the base drug has been adulterated what it has been cut with.

 

[GrittyShaker]

To think that someone cannot be killed by "one hit, or pill" is naive in the extreme, particularly as the word "moderation" cannot be applied to either heroin or ecstasy as neither comes in prescribed doses. One wrap or pill can vary hugely in quality and potency from the next, depending on how heavily the base drug has been adulterated what it has been cut with.

Did you read the rest of my post? The bits that mention the purity of the illegal drug? If they've taken too much and died then it hasn't been taken in moderation. Just because they were ignorant of the purity of the drug doesn't excuse the fact that they've overdone it. I'm not saying it's their fault, but the fact is that they haven't used it in moderation.

 

[big soft moose]

So, how does this work ?

more properly known as hyponatremia, basically drinking far too much water dilutes the salt in the body to dangerous levels, as the electrolytes get out of balance, body systems fail and the sufferer starts to exhibit signs of crisis such as diarrhea, over salivation, stupor, vomiting, muscle tremors, confusion, frequent urination, as their brain begins to swell. Unfortunately some ecstacy users then interpret this as the need to drink more water thus exacerbating the problem

This swelling is more properly known as cerebral edema and can lead to brain damage, paralysis, and death.