Amy Winehouse Found Dead.

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Well as far as the smoking goes, you are absolutely correct.

Where there is a will there is a way.


As for Amy, what a waste of talent.
 
**** me, I wish I was as perfect as some of you lot.

Anymore sob stories and I think i`ll shove the .243 in my mouth.
 
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oui, cependant tout le monde peut arrêter la nicotine, j'ai détermination très faible et je l'ai battu. Je suis sur la bière maintenant
 
Never mind the Frog banter yous two. If it helps anyone see more clearly, I used to smoke, never more than twenty in a day. I gave it up thirty years ago and still find my nose following a trail of smoke now and then, it never truly leaves you. Drugs are so much worse because they **** with your brain, giving up isn't simply a matter of waking up one morning with a coughing fit and saying I'll stop now.

Apart from prescription, smoke and alchohol I've never touched a 'drug' in my life and sometimes that has been a concious decision to say no thanks I'm fine but I've also been lucky in the environmants that I've lived in. In a different time or place I don't know if I would have had the strength of will to say no, so there but for the grace of mother earth go I and I refuse to condemn anyone who couldn't make it.
 
I'm out of this conversation before I say something I wont regret. Bloody morons.
 
It's good to see a healthy debate, and as they say we are all entitled to our opinions and we have to understand that others may not agree with what we say,there is no point getting nasty and personal, we are entitled to freedom of speech.
I am in the group that isn't pushing winehouse on a pedestal, like many she has been offered drugs, unlike many she didn't say no. I have never done drugs (unless you class alcohol), have been offered them a good few times, hung round with a few people in the groupset that did, but always said no, we all know some people are alot weaker, that's life.
I see where archamedes is coming from, the people taken from him didn't have a 2nd chance, she did have maybe even more than the 9 lives of a cat.
Those who have been drug users will see things differently than those of us who haven't, we must remember that.
 
archamedes said:
So yeah I probably come across as a very bitter, stone hearted person, but you only get to trully appreciate life when you have suffered so much loss and upset
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But why the bitterness. Don't mourn the loss, celebrate the life. The only sure thing in this world is death.
 
archamedes said:
oui, cependant tout le monde peut arrêter la nicotine, j'ai détermination très faible et je l'ai battu. Je suis sur la bière maintenant
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It's good to see google translate used so well ;) Proper french would have mentioned red wine from tumblers :D
 
Laudrup said:
could have stopped drugs at any time she wanted..
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have you ever been adicted/dependant to anything - if not i'd respectfully suggest that you havent got a clue what you're talking about.

addicts (to whatever) can get clean but it isnt as simple as just 'stopping whenever you want' - it depends very much on your lifestyle, support network, family etc - and although amy winehouse had plenty of money - in every otherway her support network sucked - her husband was/is another addict, probably a lot of people arround her were too, and the music buisness is a real party lifestyle , so in order to break the habit she'd probably have had to quit the only thing she'd been any good at.

and i'm not putting her on a pedestal - I personally can't stand the kareoke greif that ensues whenever a famous person dies , but while she was in no way perfect she also wasnt evil incarnate ,- she was just a flawed person (like 99% of the rest of us if we are honest - leaving aside the few who believe they are perfect) who at the end of the day couldnt make it.
 
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Byker28i said:
But why the bitterness. Don't mourn the loss, celebrate the life. The only sure thing in this world is death.
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Whilst death is a certainty, the instances Archemedes has highlighted, the poor victims had no idea it would happen to them and as such before their time, they had no choice.
For Amy to have lived the life she did, yes she died young, but because of her life choices it would be stretching it to say she died before her time.
Yes some people are strong enough to say no in the first place, others are sure they can say no at any point in the future we are all different. But we are all aware of the dangers beforehand. There is always the possibility that just that first time could be the instantaneous killer for whatever reason.
 
The ironic thing is, the people slagging off Amy, are the very same that posted RIP and Legend for the likes of George Best, Alex Higgins etc...
 
The Greek said:
The ironic thing is, the people slagging off Amy, are the very same that posted RIP and Legend for the likes of George Best, Alex Higgins etc...
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Don't think you'll find that I did. :thinking:
 
George best is one I did not say RIP to as well. in fact George Best weed away his 2nd liver transplant when my dad was living his last few weeks and dad was enraged at how Best treated it.

And yes I don't like the Bitterness that I sometimes have for people, I never used to be this way, I was always much moe caring and whole hearted, but over the last 3 years I have lost so many people, more than anyone deserves to lose in a short time at such a young age I have toughened up. Mum says she doesn't think I ever got over dad and true I probably didn't I never let it out like everyone else did, I kept it all in and went off the rails for a few years, I didn't turn to drugs, More go out drinking and having sex with as many women as possible. (and yes It was down to the grief and not me doing the typical man thing.) Just as I met the woman I married and had my first Child with, I started to calm down, Then everyone else started dying and the wife is saying I'm not as caring or have that romantic feeling I used to have.
 
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Laudrup said:
She didn't have a disease, and could have stopped drugs at any time she wanted. If anything her failure to get clean with the resources she had at her disposal is shameful. Worse still you had/have impressionable dumb teenagers using her and Pete Doherty as role models and something to aspire to.
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Really ... how amusing.
 
For real irony take a look at the 'shrine' the diehard amy fans are currenly trying to build up. It includes bottles of booze no less. OMG the equivelant of leaving a knife at the scene where a stabbing victim died at.
The family of Amy will be reeling when they catch sight of some of these moron's efforts.
 
mercedes said:
For real irony take a look at the 'shrine' the diehard amy fans are currenly trying to build up. It includes bottles of booze no less. OMG the equivelant of leaving a knife at the scene where a stabbing victim died at.
The family of Amy will be reeling when they catch sight of some of these moron's efforts.
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That is just bang out of order!
 
mercedes said:
For real irony take a look at the 'shrine' the diehard amy fans are currenly trying to build up. It includes bottles of booze no less. OMG the equivelant of leaving a knife at the scene where a stabbing victim died at.
The family of Amy will be reeling when they catch sight of some of these moron's efforts.
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That just highlights the fact that for many, no lessons will be learnt and it is perfectly acceptable to start out on such a lifestyle.:cuckoo:
 
ding76uk said:
and in posting that it shows your complete ignorance of drug addiction. It would do you well to read the blog posted earlier in this thread, not that it will change your mind, but to see it from another perspective.
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I read it, and it still isn't a disease. Take some responsibility for your actions instead of trying to absolve them.

KIPAX said:
and everyone can stop smoking anytime they want as well..

good grief :)
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People can and do every day.

big soft moose said:
have you ever been adicted/dependant to anything - if not i'd respectfully suggest that you havent got a clue what you're talking about.

addicts (to whatever) can get clean but it isnt as simple as just 'stopping whenever you want' - it depends very much on your lifestyle, support network, family etc - and although amy winehouse had plenty of money - in every otherway her support network sucked - her husband was/is another addict, probably a lot of people arround her were too, and the music buisness is a real party lifestyle , so in order to break the habit she'd probably have had to quit the only thing she'd been any good at.

and i'm not putting her on a pedestal - I personally can't stand the kareoke greif that ensues whenever a famous person dies , but while she was in no way perfect she also wasnt evil incarnate ,- she was just a flawed person (like 99% of the rest of us if we are honest - leaving aside the few who believe they are perfect) who at the end of the day couldnt make it.
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What disease can be cured from simply moving in a different circle of friends? It was her choice to do drugs her choice to associate with other junkies and her choice to reject rehab. Everything she put in her body was her choice and her death was entirely preventable.

Samphire said:
Really ... how amusing.
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Deny it all you like, it is the truth.
 
Laudrup said:
I read it, and it still isn't a disease. Take some responsibility for your actions instead of trying to absolve them.



People can and do every day.



What disease can be cured from simply moving in a different circle of friends? It was her choice to do drugs her choice to associate with other junkies and her choice to reject rehab. Everything she put in her body was her choice and her death was entirely preventable.



Deny it all you like, it is the truth.
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I agree with Laudrup, whilst people continue to provide an excuse calling it a disease, it's just as good as saying, it's ok, it can't be helped, you carry on.
 
Laudrup said:
What disease can be cured from simply moving in a different circle of friends? It was her choice to do drugs her choice to associate with other junkies and her choice to reject rehab. Everything she put in her body was her choice and her death was entirely preventable.

.
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I agree it was her choice entirely to take drugs in the first place - but your insistence than anyone can give up an addiction is laughable, some people just can't break addictions , and it isnt any easier to do for someone who's in the media spotlight than it is for anyone else.

The idea that its easy for an alcoholic to stop drinking, or for a junkie to stop taking horse shows a massive misunderstanding of the actual nature of addiction.

Theres no doubt that its possible for some people with the right help but easy it isnt
 
nilagin said:
I agree with Laudrup, whilst people continue to provide an excuse calling it a disease, it's just as good as saying, it's ok, it can't be helped, you carry on.
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no it isnt - its essentially no different to someone who has heart disease being told and helped to change their diet and lifestyle, or someone with a lung condition having to give up smoking

loads of people are diagnosed with diseases caused by their habits or jobs everyday, and the diagnosis leads to them being told/helped to change the behaviors - it doesnt provide an excuse not to do so.
 
nilagin said:
I agree with Laudrup, whilst people continue to provide an excuse calling it a disease, it's just as good as saying, it's ok, it can't be helped, you carry on.
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No, it's not saying it's ok and carry on, what people are saying is addiction is not as simple as learned bahaviour, it does have a biological aspect to it that leads it to a classification of an addiction.
 
Everyone feeling sorry for Amy winehouse think about this... She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from afghanista n, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, Which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a British soldier, the british soldier gets killed and leaves a wife and kids behind!! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything
 
Paul6657 said:
Everyone feeling sorry for Amy winehouse think about this... She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from afghanista n, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, Which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a British soldier, the british soldier gets killed and leaves a wife and kids behind!! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything
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I think you will find any feeling sorry ..is for her family... not her as she is passed that... You OK up there on that high horse? :)
 
Paul6657 said:
Everyone feeling sorry for Amy winehouse think about this... She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from afghanista n, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, Which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a British soldier, the british soldier gets killed and leaves a wife and kids behind!! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything
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Which is quite a novel and very simplistic - not to mention wrong, way of looking at both this, and the causes of the war in Afghanistan , so I feel exactly as I did before I read your post. Saddened and sympathetic
 
Paul6657 said:
Everyone feeling sorry for Amy winehouse think about this... She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from afghanista n, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, Which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a British soldier, the british soldier gets killed and leaves a wife and kids behind!! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything
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if we're being technical more opium cames out of afghan provinces that are under the control of the northern aliance aka the Afghan national army - so you could make a case that junkies are actually helping the war effort.

and consider this - al qaeda and associated groups are virtually entirely funded by rich arabs with oil money - so you could just as easily say that everytime you fill up your car you are helping kill british soilders :cuckoo:
 
big soft moose said:
if we're being technical more opium cames out of afghan provinces that are under the control of the northern aliance aka the Afghan national army - so you could make a case that junkies are actually helping the war effort.

and consider this - al qaeda and associated groups are virtually entirely funded by rich arabs with oil money - so you could just as easily say that everytime you fill up your car you are helping kill british soilders :cuckoo:
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Not to mention keeping them soldiers in jobs. What would they do if they didn't have a war to fight?

See how easy it is to make sweeping assumptions.:bang:
 
ding76uk said:
Not to mention keeping them soldiers in jobs. What would they do if they didn't have a war to fight?

See how easy it is to make sweeping assumptions.:bang:
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um - they do what every other peace time army does - train for the next conflict - though in actual fact more regiments have been merged and soldiers laid off since 2001 than in the preceeding ten years - inluding the distasteful case earlier this yearof a bunch of soldiers who actually got their papers while on active duty in helmand

so that line of argument is entirely false and adds nothing to the debate about amy winehouse :shake:
 
ding76uk said:
Just a quick question to those in the her fault camp.

What should be done to treat addicts then? They cost millions each year, remembering the nicotine addiction and alcohol have the most costs associated within the country.
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well if you are going for the alcohol and nicotine arguemnent, people dont tend to rob, mug and steal for cigarettes and beer.

However i do agree with that clinic that was set up somewhere in the country where addicts are allowed legally to take heroin under medical supervision for free. The crime rate completely dropped, drug dealers struggled to peddle their poison and the addicts had the oppertunity at any time they wanted to go clean with help from the clinic that gave them the heroin. I cant remember where this clinic was but it was on the news last year and was only a trial test in one town

Edit: ooh i found it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8255418.stm
 
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ding76uk said:
Just a quick question to those in the her fault camp.
What should be done to treat addicts then? They cost millions each year, remembering the nicotine addiction and alcohol have the most costs associated within the country.
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But aren't tobacco and alcohol heavily taxed ?

So users do actually contribute towards the cost and yes I am an ex smoker
 
archamedes said:
well if you are going for the alcohol and nicotine arguemnent, people dont tend to rob, mug and steal for cigarettes and beer.
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You have to be joking, don't you?
 
DemiLion said:
You have to be joking, don't you?
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The poor A&E nurses who have to put with ****ed up idiots on Friday nights would agree with you there Mark.
 
Paul6657 said:
Everyone feeling sorry for Amy winehouse think about this... She buys some heroin, most of the heroin on the UK streets comes from afghanista n, the money from that deal goes to the taliban, Which pays for bomb parts and bullets that are aimed for a British soldier, the british soldier gets killed and leaves a wife and kids behind!! Tell me now that you feel sorry for the poor girl that had everything
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Apart from sweeping inaccuracies in that post, it seriously hacks me off when someone uses dead soldiers to bolster a weak argument or when trying to score political points. Knock it off would you?
 
DemiLion said:
You have to be joking, don't you?
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I meant that in the sense to feed their fix. not drunken brawls in the street, have you ever heard of someone who had their house or car ransacked to feed their nicotine cravings or more to feed their heroin fix.

DemiLion said:
Apart from sweeping inaccuracies in that post, it seriously hacks me off when someone uses dead soldiers to bolster a weak argument or when trying to score political points. Knock it off would you?
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so your saying heroin doesn't come from afghanistan and fund the taliban
 
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