A Female's perspective...

[Sky]

Women and children swimming butt naked - I noticed none of the men did though, whether out of respect or it was a rule at this beach, also noticed nobody was oggling or acting strange, it was all completely natural.

When it comes to nudity the English British are prudes. It all goes back to Queen Vic and her silly attitudes.

Having travelled extensively around the world where in most places nudity is seen as perfectly natural no one takes any notice. The last time I accidentally walked onto a nudist beach in Cape Town, SA as soon as I realised what I'd done, I just took my shorts off. I'd have been seen as a weirdo/pervert if I'd kept them on.

 

[Cagey75]

When it comes to nudity the English British are prudes. It all goes back to Queen Vic and her silly attitudes.

Having travelled extensively around the world where in most places nudity is seen as perfectly natural no one takes any notice. The last time I accidentally walked onto a nudist beach in Cape Town, SA as soon as I realised what I'd done, I just took my shorts off. I'd have been seen as a weirdo/pervert if I'd kept them on.

I'm Irish, we're probably even more prudish! That Catholic upbringing ... As I said, the men on the beach I mentioned kept their shorts on, and everything seemed completely normal after a few mins. I think for me it was just the initial shock of seeing even what seemed to be Grandmothers topless playing with the kids, but it didn't take long to see that everything was completely normal, and I did ponder that we are far too closed minded over here

 

[jonbeeza]

Moved into a more "countryside" area around 11 years ago. Went out with map to walk or run the footpaths and see what was in the local area. Bit of a recce before my wife came along with me. The number of stares I got was unnerving. Almost felt as though people were trying to work out WHY a bloke was out on his own early on in the morning. Is he weirdo? A work colleague who lives in the same area encouraged me to "get a dog." This would stop people staring at the lone walker.

"Don't want another dog Alex."
"Get a dog."
"Don't want another dog Alex."
"Get a dog."
"Don't want another dog Alex."
"Get a dog."

"Okay, I'll get a dog."

One rescued border collie later.

Ah, a bloke with a dog ... can't possibly be a weirdo.
Morning.
Morning.

And she's still going strong(ish).



View attachment 311792

Loved walking with our dog years ago, I was invisible. Loved going out very early in the morning, sometimes 5am in the summer. Now when I go out, I take my camera, I am just another photographer indulging in his hobby.

 

[Garry Edwards]

'Tis so true, that man I copped yesterday would've looked much weirder if he'd not had the dog, now I'm thinking that's why he has a dog

Lovely doggy there btw

Sexual offenders have been known to walk dogs to make themselves invisible or less attention-worthy. This multiple-offender, who murdered a 16 year old girl, did so. https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/who-john-taylor-killer-who-15332860

 

[Sky]

Use a wheelchair - that makes you invisible too; everyone looks the other way. I'm doubly invisible as I use a wheelchair and a dog.

 

[Cagey75]

Sexual offenders have been known to walk dogs to make themselves invisible or less attention-worthy. This multiple-offender, who murdered a 16 year old girl, did so. https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/who-john-taylor-killer-who-15332860

Note it was a man out walking his dog that found the body in the end too though

Use a wheelchair - that makes you invisible too; everyone looks the other way. I'm doubly invisible as I use a wheelchair and a dog.

My daughter was in a wheelchair till she was 6, she has CP and will be on crutches for life, she got no stares when she was in the chair I remember, but she gets them all the time now on the crutches. It's strange, she's gotten used to it though and has learned to speak for herself [I often get people ask ME "what happened to her?" - to which I always respond 'why not ask her, she can speak!'] - but it's true, wheelchair = invisible to many, crutches = must be something up/had an accident or whatever.

 

[Sky]

she has CP and will be on crutches for life, she got no stares when she was in the chair I remember, but she gets them all the time now on the crutches.

I'm sorry to hear that. People don't mean to be cruel, they just don't know how to deal with. It still makes me bloody angry though - they can learn anything else, but they can't learn how to behave towards the less fortunate without being patronising.

 

[omens]

The woman from the Green Party saying there should be a curfew for all men after 6 pm.

Why not flip it and keep all women at home for their safety?

Ultimately all people be it men, women, circles, or children, should be safe outdoors. It’s a utopia we should aspire to but not at the expense of one group’s freedom.

In the same vein, I should be able to leave my keys in the ignition, engine running and car door wide open all day without it being stolen. Or keep my house door open and not be burgled. Respect all humans and their stuff.

Back in the old days, when women were seen as sex objects. Women were always seen draped around cars and other such things, this was to help sell the product. No thought for the female customer at all.

I always thought that was because men were the breadwinner, women were largely housewives or secondary income, and it was men who made the purchasing decisions. Hence taking advantage of men’s minds.

There's roll reversal adverts too, some alot more recently, such as the Coke adverts with women oggling topless men.

Or men portrayed as being incompetent at housework, looking after children etc.

 

[Cagey75]

I'm sorry to hear that. People don't mean to be cruel, they just don't know how to deal with. It still makes me bloody angry though - they can learn anything else, but they can't learn how to behave towards the less fortunate without being patronising.

I'm well used to it, and having a daughter with a disability prepped me well for the job I currently work at. I'm a care assistant for people with ID, my job is mostly helping them to get out and about in the community, get them work experience, assist them with various activities [bowling/self defence/archery/golf etc] - now those guys really get the stares, particularly I've found the guys with Down Syndrome get it worst, though they take it on board so well it's really inspiring. My daughter has learned to just handle it, and she does so very well, she will notice someone staring her down and she'll approach them! And say 'it's ok, you can ask' and often ends up telling her story and they're enamoured with her by end

 

[Fuji Dave]

The woman from the Green Party saying there should be a curfew for all men after 6 pm.

OH the greens would love that, so all men stay at home after saying Sorry boss curfew for me. So the green lot want all women to take on every mans work roll then go home as no pubs with men in and night clubs too. Down here the greens are clueless.

 

[Bebop]

Ultimately all people be it men, women, circles, or children, should be safe outdoors. It’s a utopia we should aspire to but not at the expense of one group’s freedom.

Absolutely!

 

[Mozziephotography]

Visited the Greek island of Serifos a few years back. Went down to the local bakery, early doors, to buy a few rolls for sarnies. The shop was open but no-one inside. All the shelves were full and probably cash in the till. Sat on the step and after a few minutes the shopkeeper arrived. He'd nipped back home for something. Exchanged greetings, bought the rolls and went back to the digs. Can't see that happening over here. The place would have been emptied. Not ONE policeman on the island, our host said that the only law keeper was the harbour master. If only.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

but they can't learn how to behave towards the less fortunate without being patronising.

I think that what may appear to be a patronising attitude is actually nervousness. If you haven't spent a lot of time around people who are outside your norm, it can be very difficult to work out how to behave towards them and it's quite a common response to behave with exagerated care.

 

[Craig1912]

Visited the Greek island of Serifos a few years back. Went down to the local bakery, early doors, to buy a few rolls for sarnies. The shop was open but no-one inside. All the shelves were full and probably cash in the till. Sat on the step and after a few minutes the shopkeeper arrived. He'd nipped back home for something. Exchanged greetings, bought the rolls and went back to the digs. Can't see that happening over here. The place would have been emptied. Not ONE policeman on the island, our host said that the only law keeper was the harbour master. If only.

To be fair it’s like that on a lot of Greek Islands. Never felt the need to lock stuff up or worry about anything on any Greek Island and I go there at least 2 or 3 times a year

 

[Cagey75]

I think that what may appear to be a patronising attitude is actually nervousness. If you haven't spent a lot of time around people who are outside your norm, it can be very difficult to work out how to behave towards them and it's quite a common response to behave with exagerated care.

It's not nervousness, they don't have to ask anything to begin with in that case. In some cases it's pure ignorance, I've been approached countless times and asked in front of my perfectly capable daughter 'what's up with her?' ... I mean, if you're nervous or not sure, then just don't ask, it's not vital to your day is it? You don't need to know, but if you are curious use some cop on. It's not hard. In my experience children handle it way better, it's the adults who should know better do the patronising. Kids will come over and straight up ask my daughter 'what happened to you?' and I like that, it's much better than staring her down for no reason.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Visited the Greek island of Serifos a few years back. Went down to the local bakery, early doors, to buy a few rolls for sarnies. The shop was open but no-one inside. All the shelves were full and probably cash in the till. Sat on the step and after a few minutes the shopkeeper arrived. He'd nipped back home for something. Exchanged greetings, bought the rolls and went back to the digs. Can't see that happening over here. The place would have been emptied. Not ONE policeman on the island, our host said that the only law keeper was the harbour master. If only.

We went to Stoupa in the Pelopponese the first year it opened up, and the locals were still leaving doors unlocked etc. Interesting that small communites of relatively poor people would be trustworthy, while in our village where almost everyone has plenty there have been occasional thefts/vandalism by the children of locals.

 

[jonbeeza]

Just watching the news this morning and a spokeswoman for a women's rights group, is saying "we are lobbying the government to protect women, from violence perpetrated by men".

She goes on to say " men need to look at themselves at the end of the day, and ask themselves, have I been inappropriate to a woman today".

 

[Ricardodaforce]

I'm Irish, we're probably even more prudish! That Catholic upbringing ... As I said, the men on the beach I mentioned kept their shorts on, and everything seemed completely normal after a few mins. I think for me it was just the initial shock of seeing even what seemed to be Grandmothers topless playing with the kids, but it didn't take long to see that everything was completely normal, and I did ponder that we are far too closed minded over here

I don’t think that attitude can be attributed to Catholicism, but more down to ingrained and passed down attitudes. I say that because in Spain, which is a staunchly catholic country, there is no problem with nudity on the designated beaches, or being topless on any beach.

 

[Gremlin]

Just watching the news this morning and a spokeswoman for a women's rights group, is saying "we are lobbying the government to protect women, from violence perpetrated by men".

She goes on to say " men need to look at themselves at the end of the day, and ask themselves, have I been inappropriate to a woman today".

All the legislation in the country cannot protect someone walking alone at night or any other time, It's not only females that get attacked it can and does happen to anyone

 

[jonbeeza]

All the legislation in the country cannot protect someone walking alone at night or any other time, It's not only females that get attacked it can and does happen to anyone

No idea what form they want the legislation to be in, or how they would enforce it. Yes that is true males also get attacked, I just don't know how much more care we can take. I try to be as safe as possible, but I know I may have put myself in danger, when I go to an isolated spot, and take my camera. I could get attacked and beaten up for my camera, I do try and make myself aware of my surroundings.

 

[munch]

No idea what form they want the legislation to be in, or how they would enforce it. Yes that is true males also get attacked, I just don't know how much more care we can take. I try to be as safe as possible, but I know I may have put myself in danger, when I go to an isolated spot, and take my camera. I could get attacked and beaten up for my camera, I do try and make myself aware of my surroundings.

This is the problem we can't easily change a perception. If you actually look at the data the actual risk (of being attacked / robbed) is quite small. Whilst we would all like there to be no risk. I don't know how we change it.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Politicians can and do seize every opportunity to make stupid statements and gain publicity for themselves, but even they must know that there’s no legislation that can protect women from attack or from other forms of harassment in public places, simply because the people who they want to control simply don’t obey the laws.

For example, people aren’t allowed to drive when drunk or under the influence of drugs, but untold numbers do, and a vast number of drivers don’t even bother about car insurance or having a driving licence. The simple truth of the matter is that there are nowhere near enough police on the streets to keep people safe, there never have been but the situation has become far worse in recent years, due partly to budget cuts, partly because the police are bogged down with paperwork and partly because policing is far more complicated today than in the past.

Obviously, there are some sexual predators out there but it seems to me that the people who are most at risk are those who are most vulnerable, regardless of gender – it’s just that most women are physically less capable of protecting themselves than most men, which makes them more vulnerable - I don’t think that there has ever been an attack on a group of SAS troopers enjoying a night out! I do remember though that a lone RAF Gunner was attacked a few years ago by 3 men who tried to force him into their van, it was believed to be a terrorist attack but at the time he thought it was just 3 criminals trying their luck and he just “dealt with them” and didn’t bother to detain them, they were never found and didn’t take themselves off to hospital – they may have thought that 3 against 1 was good enough but the reality was that although he looked vulnerable, he wasn’t.

So, what’s the answer? I don’t have one but I’m sure that local councils switching off street lamps to save money doesn’t help, neither does having many shops closed due to coronavirus, nor does reducing or removing bus services to save money, nor does having badly-designed public spaces and walkways that expose people to danger.

 

[jonbeeza]

Politicians can and do seize every opportunity to make stupid statements and gain publicity for themselves, but even they must know that there’s no legislation that can protect women from attack or from other forms of harassment in public places, simply because the people who they want to control simply don’t obey the laws.

For example, people aren’t allowed to drive when drunk or under the influence of drugs, but untold numbers do, and a vast number of drivers don’t even bother about car insurance or having a driving licence. The simple truth of the matter is that there are nowhere near enough police on the streets to keep people safe, there never have been but the situation has become far worse in recent years, due partly to budget cuts, partly because the police are bogged down with paperwork and partly because policing is far more complicated today than in the past.

Obviously, there are some sexual predators out there but it seems to me that the people who are most at risk are those who are most vulnerable, regardless of gender – it’s just that most women are physically less capable of protecting themselves than most men, which makes them more vulnerable - I don’t think that there has ever been an attack on a group of SAS troopers enjoying a night out! I do remember though that a lone RAF Gunner was attacked a few years ago by 3 men who tried to force him into their van, it was believed to be a terrorist attack but at the time he thought it was just 3 criminals trying their luck and he just “dealt with them” and didn’t bother to detain them, they were never found and didn’t take themselves off to hospital – they may have thought that 3 against 1 was good enough but the reality was that although he looked vulnerable, he wasn’t.

So, what’s the answer? I don’t have one but I’m sure that local councils switching off street lamps to save money doesn’t help, neither does having many shops closed due to coronavirus, nor does reducing or removing bus services to save money, nor does having badly-designed public spaces and walkways that expose people to danger.

Some have said, "tag known offenders and make sure they are monitored at all times". But that would not have helped with the current case. How about someone with no known issues, plus in a position of trust.

I have no ideas also.

 

[andya700]

Is this the same Green Party who don't know what a woman is, or the same party who think that any man who identifies as being a woman, is in fact a woman?

Green election candidates struggle to answer 'what is a woman?'

Tongue-tied deputy leader hopefuls struggle with simple question during Yorkshire and Humber hustings

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKaQRTdcds0

 

[gman]

Things have improved for women, and rightly so. Are things really that bad, or is it because it is being reported more on the news channels?

Some women have said, "women were/are treated as second class citizens". Although there are a lot more women in power now, than ever before.

The highest ranking police officer in the UK is female, the head of the NCA is a female, or at least a year or so ago it was the case. Other various high ranking posts, are held by women, and why not?

I remember posting something about that previously, at the time a variety of top positions were held by a woman including Head of State, UK Prime Minister, Scottish First Minister, Police and also the Fire Service I think.

 

[simon ess]

Exceptional people will achieve exceptional things.

I think we have to be careful not to allow the achievements of exceptional women to colour our perception of the position of most women in society.

 

[cambsno]

I have difficulty with all this. The woman from the Green Party saying there should be a curfew for all men after 6 pm. Is as stupid as the "all men are rapist" It also doesn't help address the issues.

If I was to come out and say all Muslims where terrorists I would rightly be challenged over it. But somehow all men are evil and not to be trusted around women is OK

Statistics don't actually back up a lot of these statements. Most women who are murdered it is by their partner of ex partner in the domestic setting. ( doesn't make it right though) ,

Whilst I try not to follow women when I am walking, I wouldn't walk in a different direction to avoid them.

That has no chance of working these days - what about those that are gender fluid, non-binary, identify as a woman and all the other recently made up terms!!!

 

[jonbeeza]

I remember posting something about that previously, at the time a variety of top positions were held by a woman including Head of State, UK Prime Minister, Scottish First Minister, Police and also the Fire Service I think.

Ahh yes, I forgot about the highest ranking fire officer being female. I suppose women do have the power to bring in change, most of the highest positions are now held by women, and why not of course. They say they would like the services to offer more opportunities to females, they have the power to do something about it.

It is good that women can choose a profession they want, and not be held back like the old days. But yes, more needs to be done. Especially attitudes towards females, it really does need to improve.

 

[jonbeeza]

Exceptional people will achieve exceptional things.

I think we have to be careful not to allow the achievements of exceptional women to colour our perception of the position of most women in society.

Other things that are changing, or have already been re worded. You don't have binmen anymore, you have a refuse collector. The missus still says "has the postman been?", mind you I think I still say that also. But I get smart and say, "yes, but the postman was a female postman this morning".

I don't think we have a milkman anymore, male or female, or at least not in our area.

 

[nilagin]

Ahh yes, I forgot about the highest ranking fire officer being female. I suppose women do have the power to bring in change, most of the highest positions are now held by women, and why not of course. They say they would like the services to offer more opportunities to females, they have the power to do something about it.

It is good that women can choose a profession they want, and not be held back like the old days. But yes, more needs to be done. Especially attitudes towards females, it really does need to improve.

I am intrigued to know when the old days were. I started my apprenticeship in 79 and women could pick any career they wanted. I was a mechanical apprentice, not many girls chose that path, they seemed to prefer the technical apprenticeship. There was a good number of young women studying engineering at college, they weren't all nursery nurses or studying dance. I have known lots of women in management rolls over the years and they aren't treated or seen as being any different to men.

 

[jonbeeza]

I am intrigued to know when the old days were. I started my apprenticeship in 79 and women could pick any career they wanted. I was a mechanical apprentice, not many girls chose that path, they seemed to prefer the technical apprenticeship. There was a good number of young women studying engineering at college, they weren't all nursery nurses or studying dance. I have known lots of women in management rolls over the years and they aren't treated or seen as being any different to men.

I would not be able to pin it down precisely. Maybe the 70s has clouded my memory, maybe it was pre the 70s. Although the 70s was a very sexist time, especially on TV, and this was seen as OK for family viewing.

 

[Sky]

I remember that there was quite a change in attitude from '65 to '75 with most changes coming 'thick and fast' in '70 - '73. By the end of the 70s it was much more widely accepted that women should be considered equal to men when it came to non-physical jobs and pay rates.

 

[woof woof]

Moved into a more "countryside" area around 11 years ago. Went out with map to walk or run the footpaths and see what was in the local area. Bit of a recce before my wife came along with me. The number of stares I got was unnerving. Almost felt as though people were trying to work out WHY a bloke was out on his own early on in the morning. Is he weirdo? A work colleague who lives in the same area encouraged me to "get a dog." This would stop people staring at the lone walker.

I get this. I live in a very working class area that doesn't attract a lot of tourists so people with cameras are rare but to be honest I do often feel uncomfortable when out walking even if not taking pictures as I often seem to detect the death stare from middle aged women. I have often been lost in taking a picture and then looked up to find someone staring at me, part of the annoyance is that people can snap away with a phone and yet not seem to attract the attention. I do feel a bit upset and even angry that a man on his own is sometimes deemed to be suspicious and I feel like carrying a banner saying "I'm just walking to kill time until I have to pick my wife up."

 

[jonbeeza]

I do remember my mother being subjected to harassments, many years ago. This was when I was a schoolboy and not being able to do anything about it, although I did not fully understand what was happening. Our mother had picked up me and my brothers from school, we all walked past a road works, some of the men whistled and shouted vulgar stuff at my mother. We were told not to look, and hurry on quickly. That memory has stuck in my mind for years.

 

[woof woof]

If it's at all relevant.

I worked in a pub for a year when I was 19/20 and I had a lot of hassle from women, remarks, looks and groping. This might sound like heaven but anyone who's gone through this would disagree. Having my crotch grabbed by a sozzled middle aged woman while her mates leered was not at that time what floated my boat. Years later when a manager I saw what happened in work areas which were mostly female, the hassle they gave young new starter males was just awful and it was next to impossible to get anything done about it. Equality should be the aim and sadly that would mean that women don't get to grope young men either in the pub or any other workplace. I think the only place I've had harassment away from work was in a supermarket when a bloke came up behind me and fondled my backside.

All this is small bear compared to murder, but just sayin, women as a group aren't all angels especially when in groups and faced with temptation.

 

[jonbeeza]

I get this. I live in a very working class area that doesn't attract a lot of tourists so people with cameras are rare but to be honest I do often feel uncomfortable when out walking even if not taking pictures as I often seem to detect the death stare from middle aged women. I have often been lost in taking a picture and then looked up to find someone staring at me, part of the annoyance is that people can snap away with a phone and yet not seem to attract the attention. I do feel a bit upset and even angry that a man on his own is sometimes deemed to be suspicious and I feel like carrying a banner saying "I'm just walking to kill time until I have to pick my wife up."

Nobody notices me with this dinky little thing. I stare down at it, and I think people assume it is a phone and I am reading a text.

 

[jonbeeza]

If it's at all relevant.

I worked in a pub for a year when I was 19/20 and I had a lot of hassle from women, remarks, looks and groping. This might sound like heaven but anyone who's gone through this would disagree. Having my crotch grabbed by a sozzled middle aged woman while her mates leered was not at that time what floated my boat. Years later when a manager I saw what happened in work areas which were mostly female, the hassle they gave young new starter males was just awful and it was next to impossible to get anything done about it. Equality should be the aim and sadly that would mean that women don't get to grope young men either in the pub or any other workplace. I think the only place I've had harassment away from work was in a supermarket when a bloke came up behind me and fondled my backside.

All this is small bear compared to murder, but just sayin, women as a group aren't all angels especially when in groups and faced with temptation.

Something on TV the other day, a woman said something to a young man and everyone laughed. It was a Tv talk show, and she said something with a double meaning, sexual innuendo, but she got away with it. I suppose had a man said it, it would have been picked upon straight away.

Some might say payback for all the hassle women have been getting, all these years.

 

[jonbeeza]

The grand daughters was telling us a while back, when they go out clubbing ( pre covid) they change their high heels for training shoes, when they make their way home. They said it was for both comfort, and in case they needed to run.

 

[woof woof]

Something on TV the other day, a woman said something to a young man and everyone laughed. It was a Tv talk show, and she said something with a double meaning, sexual innuendo, but she got away with it. I suppose had a man said it, it would have been picked upon straight away.

Some might say payback for all the hassle women have been getting, all these years.

There was a piece on the news a while back but sorry but I can't remember the details... What happened was some bloke was on mike on tv and a woman walked up and clearly sexually assaulted him. Bloke shouted to the watching police who did nothing.

As I said, all this is small bear compared to rape and murder but the general point is I think relevant, and it is that there seems to be a double standard in effect, unsavoury acts by women seemingly being taken as a joke, banter or not worthy of follow up.

 

[jonbeeza]

There was a piece on the news a while back but sorry but I can't remember the details... What happened was some bloke was on mike on tv and a woman walked up and clearly sexually assaulted him. Bloke shouted to the watching police who did nothing.

As I said, all this is small bear compared to rape and murder but the general point is I think relevant, and it is that there seems to be a double standard in effect, unsavoury acts by women seemingly being taken as a joke, banter or not worthy of follow up.

I don't think it would be taken seriously, as maybe it would thought a man would be able to protect himself from a female. It would be different, if it were a mature woman, and a young boy.