A Female's perspective...

dcash29 said:
My mistake, a vigil.
However it was against the current laws. Therefore in my opinion everyone there, knew it was wrong and would be expecting trouble of some sort.
Click to expand...


All those people at the BLM protests were breaking the law, tearing dowen statues, how many were arrested? What about the crowds of people on Westminster Bridge last year "clapping" for the NHS, all breaking the law - nobody arrested.
IMHO the police choose their moments carefully and pick on the most vulnerable targets, they need to grow a spine.
 
nilagin said:
So why should they have ignored this one then? Or was Covid taking the evening off?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they should have ignored this one, maybe handled it differently given that it was a vigil and not an illegal rave.
I'd expect the police to treat an illegal funeral differently to an illegal rave, so why not this?
Surely even you can see this....
 
Last edited:
andya700 said:
IMHO the police choose their moments carefully and pick on the most vulnerable targets, they need to grow a spine.
Click to expand...
I don't agree. The police are at their best when they are seen to be civilians in uniform, protecting the innocent majority from the guilty minority.
 
Vigil or not, the police were forced to put their lives on the line because people won't take the Covid threat seriously. How many people will now die from Covid as a result of this gathering? We'll never know.

I'd have tear gassed the lot of 'em, arrested and charged anyone that couldn't run away. They were all told not to gather, but they did anyway - total disregard for their own safety or that of anyone else.
 
Sky said:
How many people will now die from Covid as a result of this gathering? We'll never know.
Click to expand...
I agree....they shouldn't have gone there in the first place, but they did. How many less will die because of the way the police handled the situation?
We'll never know that either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky
Bobsyeruncle said:
I'm not saying they should have ignored this one, maybe handled it differently given that it was a vigil and not an illegal rave.
I'd expect the police to treat an illegal funeral differently to an illegal rave, so why not this?
Surely even you can see this....
Click to expand...
From the various reports I read, the police had just stood calmly in front of the bandstand. The supposedly peaceful protesters were chanting at the police. Something must have happened for it to have escalated into making arrests.
 
Sky said:
Vigil or not, the police were forced to put their lives on the line because people won't take the Covid threat seriously. How many people will now die from Covid as a result of this gathering? We'll never know.

I'd have tear gassed the lot of 'em, arrested and charged anyone that couldn't run away. They were all told not to gather, but they did anyway - total disregard for their own safety or that of anyone else.
Click to expand...


So, why were the Glasgow Rangers fans allowed to stand outside the stadium in their tens of thousands last week without anyone being arrested?
Why do you fail to see the hypocrisy here.
As for the comment about tear gassing women at a vigil, it reeks of misogyny.
 
andya700 said:
So, why were the Glasgow Rangers fans allowed to stand outside the stadium in their tens of thousands last week without anyone being arrested?
Why do you fail to see the hypocrisy here.
As for the comment about tear gassing women at a vigil, it reeks of misogyny.
Click to expand...
As well as there being thousands of fans, there were hundreds of police.
Nothing anyone could have said would have stopped the fans gathering.
The police knew that, let the fans have their moment of celebration and everyone went home.
The Scottish police, rightly or wrongly handled the situation completely differently with a totally different outcome.
I can imagine the scenes if they'd went in heavy handedly dragging people from the crowd etc.
I'm not condoning people gathering in groups, and I certainly wouldn't do it myself, as I respect the law and abide by it
 
The Met all last week : "Protest is banned"
Counsel for the Met, to Mr Justice Holgate at the High Court of Justice on Friday afternoon : "The Metropolitan police accept that protest is not banned under the coronavirus regulations"
The Met yesterday : "Protest is banned"



Sky said:
Vigil or not, the police were forced to put their lives on the line because people won't take the Covid threat seriously. How many people will now die from Covid as a result of this gathering? We'll never know.
Click to expand...
Yet amazingly police at all the other vigils yesterday evening in cities up and down the country managed to avoid arresting anyone. Only the Met, that trained up and employed the person charged with the murder, managed to get heavy handed, They were not forced to put their lives on the line, they could very easily have stepped back and left people to get on with it. Even better, they could have co-operated with the organisers so safety measures could have been put in place which would have reduced any risk to all concerned, but they didn't, so it was cancelled by the organisers and instead people turned up off their own bat with no safety measures in place. They made a rod for their own backs and I have exactly zero sympathy for anyone in that force. They've shown so much brass neck this week it beggars belief. Trust the police? Not when they act like that. They showed zero understanding, zero empathy, and zero fitness for purpose.

How many people will die from Covid as a result? Given that the government's chief scientific adviser has said the risks of outdoor transmission are extremely low and confirmed that things like the whole country going to Bournemouth beach at the same time last June, BLM protests and other outdoor so-called "super-spreader" events turned out to not cause any increase in infections, I'd say none. Last year's Cheltenham festival and that Liverpool football match that always get referred to had significant indoor components.
 
onomatopoeia said:
The Met all last week : "Protest is banned"
Counsel for the Met, to Mr Justice Holgate at the High Court of Justice on Friday afternoon : "The Metropolitan police accept that protest is not banned under the coronavirus regulations"
The Met yesterday : "Protest is banned"




Yet amazingly police at all the other vigils yesterday evening in cities up and down the country managed to avoid arresting anyone. Only the Met, that trained up and employed the person charged with the murder, managed to get heavy handed, They were not forced to put their lives on the line, they could very easily have stepped back and left people to get on with it. Even better, they could have co-operated with the organisers so safety measures could have been put in place which would have reduced any risk to all concerned, but they didn't, so it was cancelled by the organisers and instead people turned up off their own bat with no safety measures in place. They made a rod for their own backs and I have exactly zero sympathy for anyone in that force. They've shown so much brass neck this week it beggars belief. Trust the police? Not when they act like that. They showed zero understanding, zero empathy, and zero fitness for purpose.
Click to expand...
Has it not occurred to you that the people at the other vigils may have been acting entirely differently to those at Clapham?

The police don't appear to be doing anything wrong here.
View: https://BANNED/TheMichaelMoran/status/1371014121311850496?s=20


Chances are it was members of the public that escalated the problem and not the police.
 
onomatopoeia said:
The Met all last week : "Protest is banned"
Counsel for the Met, to Mr Justice Holgate at the High Court of Justice on Friday afternoon : "The Metropolitan police accept that protest is not banned under the coronavirus regulations"
The Met yesterday : "Protest is banned"




Yet amazingly police at all the other vigils yesterday evening in cities up and down the country managed to avoid arresting anyone. Only the Met, that trained up and employed the person charged with the murder, managed to get heavy handed, They were not forced to put their lives on the line, they could very easily have stepped back and left people to get on with it. Even better, they could have co-operated with the organisers so safety measures could have been put in place which would have reduced any risk to all concerned, but they didn't, so it was cancelled by the organisers and instead people turned up off their own bat with no safety measures in place. They made a rod for their own backs and I have exactly zero sympathy for anyone in that force. They've shown so much brass neck this week it beggars belief. Trust the police? Not when they act like that. They showed zero understanding, zero empathy, and zero fitness for purpose.

How many people will die from Covid as a result? Given that the government's chief scientific adviser has said the risks of outdoor transmission are extremely low and confirmed that things like the whole country going to Bournemouth beach at the same time last June, BLM protests and other outdoor so-called "super-spreader" events turned out to not cause any increase in infections, I'd say none. Last year's Cheltenham festival and that Liverpool football match that always get referred to had significant indoor components.
Click to expand...


Arrested here in town.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sarah Everard: Sussex Police jeered as park vigil in Brighton halted

One person was arrested and eight people were fined at the event in Brighton.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
nilagin said:
Chances are it was members of the public that escalated the problem and not the police.
Click to expand...
Yes, by standing too close together?
Or by starting to make speeches from the bandstand? Speeches which may have criticised the police and the fact it was one of their own that caused all of this......
 
Last edited:
"Rules don't apply to me because I'm right!" :naughty: :exit:
 
Lots of plod's body cams were flashing - does that mean they were recording? Be interesting viewing...
 
Retune said:
www.theguardian.com

What happened to me was nothing – the nothing women know all too well | Marina Hyde

At 4.56pm on a spring afternoon, countless women in the UK were being harassed on the street. It turns out I was one of them, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that was the "general" harassment that women recieve, but more a case of she was unfortunate enough to have met someone with mental health issues. The bloke could possibly have reacted in the exact same way to a man.
 
andya700 said:
So, why were the Glasgow Rangers fans allowed to stand outside the stadium in their tens of thousands last week without anyone being arrested?
Why do you fail to see the hypocrisy here.
As for the comment about tear gassing women at a vigil, it reeks of misogyny.
Click to expand...

28 were arrested plus 7 fix penalties issued.
Police say they were overwhelmed.
 
j crossley said:
Sir, to say that you would teargas a group of women who are holding a vigil for the victim of a heinous murder has to be one of the most vile, abhorrent, despicable, obnoxious and misogynistic comments ever. It beggars belief that anyone could be so insensitive.
Click to expand...


IF it was purely a vigil, yes but the out of work actress/student who seems to be the focus of the news stories has described it as a protest and called on further protests. At this point in history (WRT the Covid situation), it is NOT the time to be holding mass gatherings of ANY type, let alone potentially/probably violent confrontations.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
I think you'll find that was the Sunday at George Square, not Ibrox.
Not that that makes it ok...
Click to expand...

Makes no difference. 21 were arrested for walking on cracks in the pavement and 7 for looking at police officers in a 'funny' way. Fixed penalties were given to the usual suspects.
 
Marc said:
It's interesting that we always see footage of the police reacting but never of what they were reacting to.
Click to expand...


I do actually feel really sorry for the police, a court told them all NO, the police then said NO. So then they still turn out in their 100s, and then you get many many very angry women right on your face screaming shouting, so for your safety you have to arrest them and OH look a reporter. This is what I think and I hope the body cams show it too.

As the saying goes, there's two sides to a story.
 
nilagin said:
I wouldn't say that was the "general" harassment that women recieve, but more a case of she was unfortunate enough to have met someone with mental health issues. The bloke could possibly have reacted in the exact same way to a man.
Click to expand...
I've heard plenty of simjilar stories from female friends.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

London is not so very different to NYC or any other big city when it comes to this.
 
Last edited:
nilagin said:
I wouldn't say that was the "general" harassment that women recieve, but more a case of she was unfortunate enough to have met someone with mental health issues. The bloke could possibly have reacted in the exact same way to a man.
Click to expand...
Is that based on you're experience of being a woman or a psychologist?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Is that based on you're experience of being a woman or a psychologist?
Click to expand...
Based on my experience of, for want of a better word, "nutjobs".
I have had the experience myself from men and women.
 
onomatopoeia said:
the risks of outdoor transmission are extremely low
Click to expand...


Yes BUT I can't imagine that many of the vigilees/protestors walked or drove to the common and last time I was in London, the underground was indoors.

I'm not for one moment defending the police, just pointing out that the problems faced were far from a simple set of circumstances.
 
andya700 said:
All those people at the BLM protests were breaking the law, tearing dowen statues, how many were arrested? What about the crowds of people on Westminster Bridge last year "clapping" for the NHS, all breaking the law - nobody arrested.
IMHO the police choose their moments carefully and pick on the most vulnerable targets, they need to grow a spine.
Click to expand...
I think you are totally wrong
Could it be that the BLM protests were a hot potato nobody wanted to touch and since those disgraceful acts briefings have taken place ?
Its online planning that needs to be intercepted and dealt with swiftly.
 
The words of a former senior police officer

I debated for hours whether to post this or not.......
I've read lots of tweets and posts over the last week, and especially in the last 24 hours which have made me angry, sad, furious, shocked, mortified, confused, and just plain p***ed off.
As ever the police are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Don't enforce the law = massively criticised / hammered in the media.
Do enforce the law = massively criticised / hammered in the media.
Ask yourself what are they supposed to do? Coronavirus legislation is what it is, we are still in the middle of a global pandemic, and 10's of thousands of people have died as a result, directly or indirectly depending on which view you take of Covid.
But the fact is the rules are laid out, as per the wishes of the government. And they are there ultimately to attempt to keep us safe. The task of enforcing these laws (as always) falls to the police, along with everything else they've got to do.
So again, what are they supposed to do? Enforce the law, or don't enforce the law. They will be hammered either way. Can't win.
What happened to Sarah Everard was utterly horrific. And it goes without saying i completely understand the strength of feeling towards the case and the issues raised. The sad reality is what we all saw last night was the blatant hijack of a vigil (which had been rightly told not to go ahead and backed by the courts) by activists, anti-police agitators, opportunists with ulterior motives and those hell bent on causing a disturbance. All under the ever present camera lenses of those with other agendas.
Spraying "All Coppers Are Bastards" on a police van is not supporting Sarah's family.
Shouting "No justice, no peace" is not supporting Sarah's family.
Holding up "Defund the Police" banners is not supporting Sarah's family.
Unfortunately a reaction was sought by some, a reaction was had (through the clear disregard of the law, public safety, call it what you will), and the aftermath perfectly timed and captured for the media to lap up and farm out.
I know who WAS supporting Sarah's family though. The police family liason officer's, sticking by them throughout the most awful time of their entire life.
The investigation team which has worked and IS working tirelessly to put the person responsible for this horrific act behind bars.
And let it be said right now, if it even needed saying: NOBODY HATES BAD COPS AS MUCH AS GOOD COPS.
They go against every oath we hold dear. They ARE NOT us.
Last night could have been and should have been a huge outpouring of support for Sarah, with doorstep candlelit vigils across the country in scenes like we saw with "clap for our NHS heroes" albeit an unbelievably sad reason on this occasion.
But in all the noise and smoke, the real message and the real show of support has been lost, as we woke up to celebrities, government officials and the *media lambasting the police.
*The utterly poisonous mainstream media quite literally, day in day out, wake up with the seemingly sole intention of dividing people, and causing hate.
In any way they can, they sow the seeds of hate between us, whether it be race, religion, gender, anything. Because it generates clicks, and in turn money.
We're at a point now where the police are always seen as the villain. My inbox has been pinging away with calls of "murderers" and "scum". We're so quick to forget names like Wayne Marques, Ian Dibell, David Whyte, Keith Palmer, Nicola Hughes, Fiona Bone, Stephen Oake, Sharon Beshenivsky and many others. Who risked everything and in some cases gave everything to try and keep us safe.
I don't know where this all ends up. I don't even know why i wrote this. Maybe i'm just sick and tired of hearing the one sided narrative, and want to try and give a voice to the "silent" majority.
Don't get me wrong, we are NOT perfect, never claimed to be. We're only human and can / will make mistakes, it would be hugely naive to think otherwise. But we're not the enemy.
I guess i'll sign off by saying this is only my opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of the police, although in amongst the handful of likes and comments it will inevitably get, i just hope the message gets through.
Click to expand...
 
Marc said:
The words of a former senior police officer
Click to expand...


Damned if they do and sadly damned if they don't. So very true what the officer said, my old mate told me that Yvonne Fletcher was another great person who worked and died in the force and he is an ex Met officer.
 
dcash29 said:
Someone else responsible for escalating issues in this country are the media. Some of whom want shutting down and locking up.
Click to expand...
I agree.
If as the ex senior police officer stated that the vigil was hijacked by extremists and activists, then the press should be showing images of these people, and giving a more accurate account of what is happening.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top