A Female's perspective...

jonbeeza said:
I don't think it would be taken seriously, as maybe it would thought a man would be able to protect himself from a female. It would be different, if it were a mature woman, and a young boy.
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I read something somewhere (again I can't provide details as it was long ago...) that said that men with sisters were less likely to assault women as they'd probably been brought up with parents repeatedly saying "You don't hit girls." I have two sisters and that was the case for me but actually it never mattered as they were always too busy tearing lumps out of each other to notice or fight with me.

Another side of the coin.

A friend of mine (a woman) used to go to night clubs by herself and sometimes "cop off" as she put it. One night she was raped in an alley and never reported it. Her mates had repeatedly told her not to go by herself. In a perfect world of course anyone should be able to go out clubbing by themselves but this isn't a perfect world.
 
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woof woof said:
If it's at all relevant.

I worked in a pub for a year when I was 19/20 and I had a lot of hassle from women, remarks, looks and groping. This might sound like heaven but anyone who's gone through this would disagree. Having my crotch grabbed by a sozzled middle aged woman while her mates leered was not at that time what floated my boat. Years later when a manager I saw what happened in work areas which were mostly female, the hassle they gave young new starter males was just awful and it was next to impossible to get anything done about it. Equality should be the aim and sadly that would mean that women don't get to grope young men either in the pub or any other workplace. I think the only place I've had harassment away from work was in a supermarket when a bloke came up behind me and fondled my backside.

All this is small bear compared to murder, but just sayin, women as a group aren't all angels especially when in groups and faced with temptation.
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The film Made in Dagenham for anyone who hasn't seen it, is set in the late 60's and is about the women who worked in the Ford trim shop, sewing seat covers and their strike to be reclassified as skilled workers and to get equal pay to the men. There is a scene where a young lad walks into the trim shop and all the women start jeering and making comments towards him.
The first 27 months of my apprenticeship (11yrs after that film was set) was spent in the Ford Dagenham River Plant Estate where the trim shop was situated and the women were still jeering and making comments towards us young lads.
When I worked in the Stamping Plant and Aveley Plant, none of the women recieved such treatment from the men.
 
nilagin said:
The film Made in Dagenham for anyone who hasn't seen it, is set in the late 60's and is about the women who worked in the Ford trim shop, sewing seat covers and their strike to be reclassified as skilled workers and to get equal pay to the men. There is a scene where a young lad walks into the trim shop and all the women start jeering and making comments towards him.
The first 27 months of my apprenticeship (11yrs after that film was set) was spent in the Ford Dagenham River Plant Estate where the trim shop was situated and the women were still jeering and making comments towards us young lads.
When I worked in the Stamping Plant and Aveley Plant, none of the women recieved such treatment from the men.
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Yup. That's pretty much what I saw on multiple occasions. Even as a mature manager some women didn't see me as off limits and there were often comments and overheard conversations. I remember one incident when a woman who clearly had a thing for me just walked up and started "Feeling your muscles." One reason I always kept my office door open and had someone else there as often as possible when I'd be otherwise alone in my office with a woman.
 
nilagin said:
I am intrigued to know when the old days were. I started my apprenticeship in 79 and women could pick any career they wanted. I was a mechanical apprentice, not many girls chose that path, they seemed to prefer the technical apprenticeship. There was a good number of young women studying engineering at college, they weren't all nursery nurses or studying dance. I have known lots of women in management rolls over the years and they aren't treated or seen as being any different to men.
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There were a lot of inequalities then. I studied Physics in 1979. I couldn't have joined the antarctic survey on graduating - no women allowed. I joined the student royal naval unit and was not allowed to have a tab behind the bar. The men were paid for their attendance and the women weren't. Women weren't allowed to stay overnight on the vessel. I left the RN unit after a short time because I had a long walk through derelict dockland in the dark to get to the meetings and feared for my safety... the men may well have done too.

Things are so much better for women these days, but no legislation is going to change the behaviour of the men who rape and murder women. We all need to respect each other.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I don’t think that attitude can be attributed to Catholicism, but more down to ingrained and passed down attitudes. I say that because in Spain, which is a staunchly catholic country, there is no problem with nudity on the designated beaches, or being topless on any beach.
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Fair point, it's more the Irish upbringing really
 
Bebop said:
Things are so much better for women these days, but no legislation is going to change the behaviour of the men who rape and murder women. We all need to respect each other.
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And this is it really - there is already legislation about abuse, assault, equality and all the rest, and it's quite adequate and fit for purpose. If people could respect each other then we'd never have a need for such laws.
 
nilagin said:
I am intrigued to know when the old days were. I started my apprenticeship in 79 and women could pick any career they wanted. I was a mechanical apprentice, not many girls chose that path, they seemed to prefer the technical apprenticeship. There was a good number of young women studying engineering at college, they weren't all nursery nurses or studying dance. I have known lots of women in management rolls over the years and they aren't treated or seen as being any different to men.
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Maybe your company, people who worked in it and the area in general were just more enlightened than some because it certainly wasn't like that for me. Had to fight to take the right subjects at school/college, was taken on to show the company was into equal opportunities when they really weren't, was the only female in my higher education class. The only thing the guys were interested in was my leaving, as fast as possible. I didn't go. Nothing physical ever happened - they didn't dare. I am not and never have been a 'girlie girl' so I'll leave it to you to work out what direction some of the comments I got went in, and they were probably the more polite ones! All I could do was ignore it all because no-one was ever going to take my side. It took a long time for things to start to get better, as some of the dinausours left, but oddly enough there was a bit of a resurgance among the younger guys who seemed to think it wrong that women were taking 'their' jobs. There were jobs I wasn't allowed to do and areas I wasn't allowed to work in for no better reason than the men didn't want me there. One of those areas I did end up working in, just for a week or so, and I will never forget the first day I walked through the door.............
Thankfully things have changed for the better but you can't change attitudes by legislation. Sadly every group that experiences prejudice knows that. Everyone should be treated the same irrespective of who they are, what they are, what they look like etc. How hard can it be?
 
nilagin said:
The film Made in Dagenham for anyone who hasn't seen it, is set in the late 60's and is about the women who worked in the Ford trim shop, sewing seat covers and their strike to be reclassified as skilled workers and to get equal pay to the men. There is a scene where a young lad walks into the trim shop and all the women start jeering and making comments towards him.
The first 27 months of my apprenticeship (11yrs after that film was set) was spent in the Ford Dagenham River Plant Estate where the trim shop was situated and the women were still jeering and making comments towards us young lads.
When I worked in the Stamping Plant and Aveley Plant, none of the women recieved such treatment from the men.
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I think I watched it a little while ago, can't remember what happened.

Got relatives both female and male that work in Jaguar Land Rover, and they say working conditions are both good and fair.
 
Jannyfox said:
Maybe your company, people who worked in it and the area in general were just more enlightened than some because it certainly wasn't like that for me. Had to fight to take the right subjects at school/college, was taken on to show the company was into equal opportunities when they really weren't, was the only female in my higher education class. The only thing the guys were interested in was my leaving, as fast as possible. I didn't go. Nothing physical ever happened - they didn't dare. I am not and never have been a 'girlie girl' so I'll leave it to you to work out what direction some of the comments I got went in, and they were probably the more polite ones! All I could do was ignore it all because no-one was ever going to take my side. It took a long time for things to start to get better, as some of the dinausours left, but oddly enough there was a bit of a resurgance among the younger guys who seemed to think it wrong that women were taking 'their' jobs. There were jobs I wasn't allowed to do and areas I wasn't allowed to work in for no better reason than the men didn't want me there. One of those areas I did end up working in, just for a week or so, and I will never forget the first day I walked through the door.............
Thankfully things have changed for the better but you can't change attitudes by legislation. Sadly every group that experiences prejudice knows that. Everyone should be treated the same irrespective of who they are, what they are, what they look like etc. How hard can it be?
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At school we had a careers officer who took classes with us, we were given advice on what occupations we could go for. The lads were given advice on car mechanics and that sort of stuff, while the girls where given hairdressing and such like options.

I remember I saw a job advertised in a Cafe, I went along to enquire about the job. The female owner said " I don't want any men working here". Yet it was a cafe for truckers, near the docks. I did not kick up a fuss, I don't there was any such thing as sex discrimination way back then, no there would not have been.
 
mossienet said:
Visited the Greek island of Serifos a few years back. Went down to the local bakery, early doors, to buy a few rolls for sarnies. The shop was open but no-one inside. All the shelves were full and probably cash in the till. Sat on the step and after a few minutes the shopkeeper arrived. He'd nipped back home for something. Exchanged greetings, bought the rolls and went back to the digs. Can't see that happening over here. The place would have been emptied. Not ONE policeman on the island, our host said that the only law keeper was the harbour master. If only.
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Not just the Greek islands, Alderney is like that, or was up to 10 years ago, which was the last time I went there to work.
 
Earley Man said:
Not just the Greek islands, Alderney is like that, or was up to 10 years ago, which was the last time I went there to work.
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When we went to the Canaries a few years ago, it was very safe. Some of the females in the group, felt safe walking about in the early hours of the morning. I felt pretty safe also, it was a very nice and friendly place.
 
Jannyfox said:
Thankfully things have changed for the better but you can't change attitudes by legislation. Sadly every group that experiences prejudice knows that. Everyone should be treated the same irrespective of who they are, what they are, what they look like etc. How hard can it be?
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Totally agree, but my take would be you can't change attitudes by legislation alone, yet I think over time things like racial equality and sex discrimination legislation have helped.

Unfortunately, the "new movements" of Black Lives Matter, Reclaim These Streets, etc. whilst well-intended (in part), have or will just get some to "put up the fences"

Just look at some of the comments on here, there is a bit of an underlying theme of "women can be worse than men" or "women enjoy that sort of attention"

Look at all the sexist jokes that appear on this forum.

I do just wonder how far we (as members of this forum) have really moved on. (I do include myself in that last statement)
 
omens said:
Why not flip it and keep all women at home for their safety?

Ultimately all people be it men, women, circles, or children, should be safe outdoors. It’s a utopia we should aspire to but not at the expense of one group’s freedom.

In the same vein, I should be able to leave my keys in the ignition, engine running and car door wide open all day without it being stolen. Or keep my house door open and not be burgled. Respect all humans and their stuff.


I always thought that was because men were the breadwinner, women were largely housewives or secondary income, and it was men who made the purchasing decisions. Hence taking advantage of men’s minds.


Or men portrayed as being incompetent at housework, looking after children etc.
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I think the green party MP suggested it with her tongue firmly in cheek precisely because many do"victim blame" and say "well women shouldn't be out alone at dark"
 
munch said:
Totally agree, but my take would be you can't change attitudes by legislation alone, yet I think over time things like racial equality and sex discrimination legislation have helped.

Unfortunately, the "new movements" of Black Lives Matter, Reclaim These Streets, etc. whilst well-intended (in part), have or will just get some to "put up the fences"

Just look at some of the comments on here, there is a bit of an underlying theme of "women can be worse than men" or "women enjoy that sort of attention"

Look at all the sexist jokes that appear on this forum.

I do just wonder how far we (as members of this forum) have really moved on. (I do include myself in that last statement)
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I know of a certain female who keeps getting temp bans on faceberk, she keeps posting rude jokes. She is a great grand mother also.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I think the green party MP suggested it with her tongue firmly in cheek precisely because many do"victim blame" and say "well women shouldn't be out alone at dark"
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People with ill intent should not be out and about, causing physical harm , theft damage etc against the rest of us.
Trouble is, we don't always know who the wrong doers are, until it is too late.
 
I mentioned earlier in the thread about women managing to get to high positions in the work place, and rightly so.
But it now seems some are wanting the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick to resign, and it seems it is women that want her to resign.
 
j crossley said:
Well, as commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick is ultimately responsible for the actions and behaviour of her offices. And, based purely on what I have seen on the TV and read in the papers, the police behaved appallingly at the vigil on Clapham Common. Whatever the rights and wrongs of holding the vigil in the first place, the police should have handled the situation with a hell of a lot more sensitivity.
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Yes I have to agree, while the vigil may have been wrong, it had already taken place. So the Police should have thought what was the best way to help and support the people there, and if possible get them to distance a bit better. Would have been nice if they had of been shown a bit of kindness and thought, and not thuggish behavior, if indeed that is what happened.
 
Look closely at the video of the woman that was pushed to the ground, pretty sure at least one of the police
involved was female
Whilst I don't agree with how the police dealt with it I still think the blame lies totally with the organisers and
have to wonder how peacefully it would have ended no matter what, none of these large gatherings ever seem to end well

The way to hold the vigil was as they did 3 streets away where she was seen

news.sky.com

Sarah Everard: On the doorsteps of Brixton, sombre scenes as vigils held by candlelight

"We are at a pivotal moment in our history. Now's the time to say enough is enough. We can't live in fear anymore," one MP says.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
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jonbeeza said:
I mentioned earlier in the thread about women managing to get to high positions in the work place, and rightly so.
But it now seems some are wanting the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Cressida Dick to resign, and it seems it is women that want her to resign.
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In the news this morning, and talking about the arrests at the vigil. The spokeswoman was the Commissioner's assistant, a female in another very high up top roll, and again why not.
 
Gremlin said:
Look closely at the video of the woman that was pushed to the ground, pretty sure at least one of the police was
involved was female
Whilst I don't agree with how the police dealt with it I still think the blame lies totally with the organisers and
have to wonder how peacefully it would have ended no matter what, none of these large gatherings ever seem to end well

The way to hold the vigil was as they did 3 streets away where she was seen

news.sky.com

Sarah Everard: On the doorsteps of Brixton, sombre scenes as vigils held by candlelight

"We are at a pivotal moment in our history. Now's the time to say enough is enough. We can't live in fear anymore," one MP says.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Just catching the news now..
 
jonbeeza said:
I am going out for my morning walk later on, and I do this every day without thinking about getting attacked. I have occasionally thought what it must be like, to be a woman going out and about, and just living in general. I have even thought about it a lot more, with the current news reporting of the many women being attacked.

The news is reporting on the current safety of women walking about, and how to stay safe. This is in light of the news reporting on the woman who has been killed, and the arrest of a policeman in connection with the crime.

I do my best to not frighten women while out walking, if I am walking along the canal path and I meet a lone female, I smile nod and say good morning. I will even walk in a different direction, so as not to alarm a female, should I be walking behind her, or slow down and let her get well ahead of me.

I would never whistle or shout vulgar obscenities to a female, but according to a report on the news, it is very rife, and women are subjected to it on a daily basis.
So I think us fellas need to think a lot more, and stop harassing women. The days of Wolf-whistling has gone.
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Your decision, however I wont be doing that.

Look at the Clapham common vigil. It was called off, people told not to go and donate the possible covid fine.
BUT OH NO! Now its the police force at fault. Makes my blood boil. :mad:
 
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jonbeeza said:
I know of a certain female who keeps getting temp bans on faceberk, she keeps posting rude jokes. She is a great grand mother also.
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Again you are using a specific case in an attempt to prove your position. Also I was specifically referring to this forum.
 
jonbeeza said:
Yes I have to agree, while the vigil may have been wrong, it had already taken place. So the Police should have thought what was the best way to help and support the people there, and if possible get them to distance a bit better. Would have been nice if they had of been shown a bit of kindness and thought, and not thuggish behavior, if indeed that is what happened.
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I got prosecuted for speeding. Why didnt the Police show some kindness and thought, seeings I had already broken the law?
 
I don't get into arguments, and I don't bother to put people on ignore. (y) :)(y)
 
I am off to take some photos, I have got a project I want to print out. (y):)(y)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
But they didn't drag you out of your car and dump you on the ground to arrest you.....so they did show you some kindness and thought ;)
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No they didnt as it was a camera. However if I'd have gone to court and told them to F off and made a disturbance in court, they would have dragged me away.
Good job it wasnt in China
 
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dcash29 said:
No they didnt as it was a camera. However if I'd have gone to court and told them to F off and made a disturbance in court, they would have dragged me away.
Good job it wasnt in China
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Getting caught by a speed camera is definitely comparable to the breaking up of a peaceful vigil
 
dcash29 said:
Regardless, The point is, they were breaking to law.
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They were, but what did the police seriously expect the outcome to be?

The actions of the police in this instance have done nothing to make the public safer from covid,
 
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The issue with these protests is that there isn't sufficient policing to deal with them.
Therefore when youre out numbered, you either do nothing, in which case the police would have been called for not doing their job, or you revert to using extra force to persuade people to back off and think again.
 
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dcash29 said:
The issue with these protests is that there isn't sufficient policing to deal with them.
Therefore when youre out numbered, you either do nothing, in which case the police would have been called for not doing their job, or you revert to using extra force to persuade people to back off and think again.
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It was a vigil, not a protest.
I don't think anyone would have called out the police for not doing their job, and if they did, it would have been better than the headlines they got....
 
My mistake, a vigil.
However it was against the current laws. Therefore in my opinion everyone there, knew it was wrong and would be expecting trouble of some sort.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
They were, but what did the police seriously expect the outcome to be?

The actions of the police in this instance have done nothing to make the public safer from covid,
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So the police should ignore every rave, party or any other illegal gathering then.
 
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