Zoo's good or bad?

viv1969 said:
There is nothing UNhealthy in the dishes mentioned.
It's your insistence that everything non-vegan is as bad for a person as a cup of polonium tea which grinds my gears.
You're a vegan, fine, we get it....I hope you have a wonderful time with it; but please stop suggesting anyone who still eats meat is less healthy than you or your fellow vegans.
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My point was that there's no veg with the meal if that's all he had and no matter how healthy or unhealthy it is (read the WHO reports about how bad for you meat CAN be) you still need veg to get the vitamins your body requires.
 
htid said:
My point was that there's no veg with the meal if that's all he had and no matter how healthy or unhealthy it is (read the WHO reports about how bad for you meat CAN be) you still need veg to get the vitamins your body requires.
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You don't honestly think that is all we will have?
I just couldn't be bothered listing the veg.
But if you insist...
With the chicken we'll be having Charlotte potatoes, peas, broccoli, sweetcorn and string beans. We will, of course, be having home made bread- sour dough this weekend.
On Sunday with the roast we'll add some carrots and sweet potatoes to the list
 
kendo1 said:
You don't honestly think that is all we will have?
I just couldn't be bothered listing the veg.
But if you insist...
With the chicken we'll be having Charlotte potatoes, peas, broccoli, sweetcorn and string beans. We will, of course, be having home made bread- sour dough this weekend.
On Sunday with the roast we'll add some carrots and sweet potatoes to the list
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Fair enough, I did honestly think that's all you were having. My post was quite tongue in cheek anyway which is why I did the Smileys, no need for everybody to get defensive :) Nothing to see here.
 
yep 6000 is a lot without eating a load of crap - particularly as he also needs the extra protein... eggs are pretty good ( when i was in peak condition i used to have four poached eggs on smoked salmon and a bed of spinach for breakfast ... trouble is too many eggs has other effects on your digestion)
 
kendo1 said:
You don't honestly think that is all we will have?
I just couldn't be bothered listing the veg.
But if you insist...
With the chicken we'll be having Charlotte potatoes, peas, broccoli, sweetcorn and string beans. We will, of course, be having home made bread- sour dough this weekend.
On Sunday with the roast we'll add some carrots and sweet potatoes to the list
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The irony of a vegan lecturing anyone about diets being deficient in minerals and vitamins is pretty rich , given that its damn near impossible to get a healthy level of vitamin B12 from eating only plants (as most plants that contain B12 also contain B12 analogs ) ,
 
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big soft moose said:
The irony of a vegan lecturing anyone about diets being deficient in minerals and vitamins is pretty rich
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That just shows a lack of education in vegan diets, the only thing you can't get as a vegan is b12. The thing is most vegans eat a vary varied diet because we need to, therefore we pay attention to the foods we need to eat. Lots of meat eaters eat rubbish food, ready meals, chips, frozen pizzas etc. Obviously without doing a poll it's impossible to know what % of meat eaters eat a good diet, but as I said judging by the amount of people you see in McDonald's, KFC and burger king etc. and the obesity problem we have in this country, there's obviously quite a lot of meat eaters who don't eat a good balanced diet.
 
htid said:
the only thing you can't get as a vegan is b12. .
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Indeed - but B12 is pretty much essential to a healthy diet so if you can't get it as a vegan, be definition you are eating unhealthily ... the argument that its made by bacteria in your lower intestine is flawed, because although it is, you can't absorb it there .

So unless you are using supplements (many of which are made from meat) or the tongue absorption spray developed in the states a few years ago which uses synthetic B12 engineered to be absorpable through the tongue , your alledgedly healthy diet is killing you. and its a good thing you arent having kids as if you did they'd be prime candidates for growth defects and spina bifida
 
big soft moose said:
yep 6000 is a lot without eating a load of crap - particularly as he also needs the extra protein... eggs are pretty good ( when i was in peak condition i used to have four poached eggs on smoked salmon and a bed of spinach for breakfast ... trouble is too many eggs has other effects on your digestion)
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6000 was very difficult!
He has two platefuls to my one.
Of course he has fruit smoothies or 'green' juice for part of his breakfast.
My daughter felt guilty last week when she had a carry out pizza at a dormitory party.
They both cook probably 99% of their meals. They both started with sport science at uni- she's just finishing her third year having changed to animal biology, and he's finishing his last year doing sport nutrition.
 
What's happened to this thread ? :D
 
It was the bank holiday, I guess we all had better things to do ;)
 
big soft moose said:
Indeed - but B12 is pretty much essential to a healthy diet so if you can't get it as a vegan, be definition you are eating unhealthily ... the argument that its made by bacteria in your lower intestine is flawed, because although it is, you can't absorb it there .

So unless you are using supplements (many of which are made from meat) or the tongue absorption spray developed in the states a few years ago which uses synthetic B12 engineered to be absorpable through the tongue , your alledgedly healthy diet is killing you. and its a good thing you arent having kids as if you did they'd be prime candidates for growth defects and spina bifida
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Ah yes I didn't reply to this. I need to do some more research as I believe that some animals are given b12 artificially in the first place so you're also taking supplements and on a diet that would kill you without them. Since b12 is in the micro organisms in the soil, if animals aren't reared outside (which many of course aren't), the also need the supplement. Either way I understand that anybody over 50 should be taking b12 supplement regardless of their diet.

The b12 sources I take are marked as vegan so I assume they're OK. I get mine from nutritional yeast which sounds disgusting but is actually really nice and tastes quite cheesy, so lots of vegan cheeses use it.
 
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kendo1 said:
Ditto!

We might be having it tonight as well...
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Would have, but made lamb sandwiches, with minty mayo, for lunch instead :D
 
I'm not judging or anything, just geniunely curious...I obviously can't understand why you'd want to eat meat, but don't you feel even the slightest pang of guilt from eating a little lamb? Again, to me it makes no difference if it's a lamb or a cow or a chicken etc. but people usually think lambs are cute! If not I guess that's better than these people who feel guilty for eating cute animals but not for eating ones they don't see as cute.
 
My father was a farm manager at Shelley's birthplace (Field Place, near Horsham, West Sussex).
I helped him lamb ewes and calf cows at 8 years old (covered in afterbirth etc.)
He made me a saddle to ride my "pet" calf Panda around the farmyard until it got too big for me to ride.
I used to go to market with him.
He also taught me about where meat came from.

No I don't feel the pang of guilt when I think where my meals come from.

It's the norm and has been for thousands of years.
 
htid said:
I'm not judging or anything, just geniunely curious...I obviously can't understand why you'd want to eat meat, but don't you feel even the slightest pang of guilt from eating a little lamb? Again, to me it makes no difference if it's a lamb or a cow or a chicken etc. but people usually think lambs are cute! If not I guess that's better than these people who feel guilty for eating cute animals but not for eating ones they don't see as cute.
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Not in the least bit guilty to be honest.
And why do I eat meat? Because it tastes good.
I was raised on a farm and saw the animals from born to table, and every stage between.
 
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Fair enough, I can't argue with that.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
Horses for (main) courses.

:exit:
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I had horse in France.

Why should i feel guilty eating meat?

It's normal. I'm an omnivore.

Being vegan is not normal for a human.
 
kendo1 said:
I had horse in France.

Why should i feel guilty eating meat?

It's normal. I'm an omnivore.

Being vegan is not normal for a human.
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I only asked because I find it strange that you can look at a cute animal like a lamb and not feel any guilt in killing it.

Just because something is normal doesn't mean you can't feel guilt for it though. Not that I'm suggesting you should, just that the two don't always go together. You're right that being vegan isn't 'normal' in the sense that it's not what the majority do, I don't dispute that.
 
I think Ken meant that being vegan isn't normal for a human being.
i.e. we were designed to eat meat and vegetation (semi evolved canines and molars are proof of this).
 
GreenNinja67 said:
I think Ken meant that being vegan isn't normal for a human being.
i.e. we were designed to eat meat and vegetation (semi evolved canines and molars are proof of this).
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Designed by who? We evolved just as hippos did, just as gorillas did, just as saber toothed deer did, just as geleda baboons did, just as camels did, just as javelinas did...all of which have canines and all of which are herbivores. So why does the type of teeth we have mean we're designed to eat meat? Not to mention that your canines can't rip meat apart like a carnivores can.
 
htid said:
I only asked because I find it strange that you can look at a cute animal like a lamb and not feel any guilt in killing it.

Just because something is normal doesn't mean you can't feel guilt for it though. Not that I'm suggesting you should, just that the two don't always go together. You're right that being vegan isn't 'normal' in the sense that it's not what the majority do, I don't dispute that.
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I feel no guilt whatsoever.

Why should I? :confused:

Do you feel guilty eating a lettuce?

Ooh! Look at that pretty lettuce! I think I'll eat it...
 
htid said:
Designed by who? We evolved just as hippos did, just as gorillas did, just as saber toothed deer did, just as geleda baboons did, just as camels did, just as javelinas did...all of which have canines and all of which are herbivores. So why does the type of teeth we have mean we're designed to eat meat? Not to mention that your canines can't rip meat apart like a carnivores can.
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There are some truths and untruths in your statement.
Gorillas are primates and can eat meat, though they tend to eat vegetation. They are basically omnivores.
Saber toothed deer are actually Musk deer and have developed elongated canine teeth as 'ornaments' and for sexual conflict.
Javelinas are basically pigs/hogs and eat anything - they are omnivores.
Baboons are primates - see above :)
Hippos- same argument as for Musk deer.

Camels- I don't know!
My daughter is sitting next to me :)

Apparently, camels develop canine teeth at the age of six to seven. They are used to crush woody plants for food.

She also found the site you were quoting from!

Some of these animals' ancestors were meat eaters and have evolved/devolved their canine teeth to other uses.
 
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htid said:
Designed by who? We evolved just as hippos did, just as gorillas did, just as saber toothed deer did, just as geleda baboons did, just as camels did, just as javelinas did...all of which have canines and all of which are herbivores. So why does the type of teeth we have mean we're designed to eat meat? Not to mention that your canines can't rip meat apart like a carnivores can.
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They may well all be herbivores in the main but they don't all stick to a vegetarian let alone vegan diet. Our teeth don't need to rip meat apart - they're more than capable of dealing with fish, liver in its raw state etc..
 
Zoos good or bad, went with the kids and grand kids to Chester Zoo the other day. Watching Hippos doing massive dumps and rivers of wee, are not my idea of a fun day out. Oh and the smell :eek:
 
@jonbeeza we have an infamous family home VHS video from the 80s from jersey zoo of a chimp on a tree, minding his own business - and then you hear a horrified american say loudly OH MY GOD HES PEEING! - still gets a chuckle in the family, tee hee.
 
oh and turns out that Seaworld have shelved their plans to increase the size of the orca tanks and are just 'remodelling' - which is actually s***ty news, stop breeding but they still have to stay in the small tanks - not setting a very good example to Miami mentioned above who are even worse

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/...uture-of-their-remaining-orcas-will-look-like

The stopping of the breeding has convinced my friend that she will now go with her daugther this year as she wants to see her face when she sees an orca and her husband was going to take her, but she wasnt going to go. I understand why, and it's hard to put myself in that position, given that i went to the parks but have since changed my opinion and i am not maternal at all so wouldnt understand what that means to her.

either way, s*** news for the remaining orca. i relly really hope that Morgan can at least go home
 
dan_yell said:
@jonbeeza we have an infamous family home VHS video from the 80s from jersey zoo of a chimp on a tree, minding his own business - and then you hear a horrified american say loudly OH MY GOD HES PEEING! - still gets a chuckle in the family, tee hee.
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LOL

Ahh, the 80s yes fond memories...I had an old Cine Camera back in the 80s, it broke immediately and I never did get the film developed :)
 
kendo1 said:
I feel no guilt whatsoever.

Why should I? :confused:

Do you feel guilty eating a lettuce?

Ooh! Look at that pretty lettuce! I think I'll eat it...
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Well that's a silly analogy and you know that.
1) a lettuce isn't cute
2) a lettuce doesn't feel pain (as far as we know)
3) a lettuce doesn't feel fear and a desire to live (as far as we know)

Why should you? Well you 'shouldnt' as in there's no reason you should but I was just curious because I can't understand how anybody can not feel an emotion knowing the animal feels fear and pain. I was only asking out of curiosity.
 
You're being very evangelical about the subject.

Fair enough, you don't eat meat.
I'm not trying to convert you or make you feel guilty about your life choice with emotive language.

I have no 'emotion' about the animal that supplies the meat, but I do eat it.
 
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