Zoo's good or bad?

@viv1969 I was going to make a joke about non-consumption of meat for a moment there but....


...oh wait...dammit!
 
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viv1969 said:
What part are you not comprehending about before and after?



But no matter.

More interestingly.....vegans don't breed?
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I think you misunderstood my answer then. I said that if the cure was developed after I became vegan, it would be the same as if it was created before I became vegan because taking the medicine would cause no further harm to the animals and there would be little achieved by not taking it.

On your second point, vegans do breed and I know quite a few who have kids. I can't understand why though, it seems illogical to me. To me it comes down to them being selfish and wanting kids more than they care for animals. I guess the believe they can bring their children up as vegans and veganism will spread. That's an admirable thought but I'm not sure it will be that easy (though I do know quite a few vegans who's parents were vegan since the 60s hippy era and they themselves are vegan too).
 
htid said:
Well it's simple. As a vegan I don't want to harm animals. If I had a child I couldn't guarantee it would be vegan so I would indirectly be causing animals to die. That's not very vegan of me IMO. I've never wanted kids anyway so it's a non issue.
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No point in fighting to be vegan then as it looks as if you're all going to die out.

You wouldn't have kids 'cause you couldn't guarantee they'd be vegan?

That's just unhinged thinking in my humble opinion. You love animals so much you'd be prepared for the human race to die out for them?

Surely what you should want for your children is a happy life, not a diet of plant.
 
htid said:
Don't worry that joke gets made a lot but we have vegan sausage ;)
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Are they shaped like meat sausages? ;)
Never quite understood that :lol:
 
GreenNinja67 said:
No point in fighting to be vegan then as it looks as if you're all going to die out.

You wouldn't have kids 'cause you couldn't guarantee they'd be vegan?

That's just unhinged thinking in my humble opinion. You love animals so much you'd be prepared for the human race to die out for them?

Surely what you should want for your children is a happy life, not a diet of plant.
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Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean the human race will die out ;) The number of humans needs to be dramatically reduced though in order for us to have enough resources to sustain ourselves (that's not just my opinion, lots of people agree that we are overpopulating the planet and it clearly can't cope). So some people need to stop having kids, it may as well be me who doesn't want any anyway.

What I want is for animals to have a happy life moreso than a theoretical child that I don't even want. But anyway lots of vegans have happy lives I assume!
 
Have faith in Gaia.

she is a self perpetuating mechanism and will sort herself out in her own time.

She normally does.
 
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viv1969 said:
Are they shaped like meat sausages? ;)
Never quite understood that :LOL:
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Lol well I guess it's to try and convince meat eaters that they're like the real thing! Anyway just because us vegans don't agree with meat, doesn't mean we don't like the taste, we just want to avoid to associated cruelty. It must be marketing though.

GreenNinja67 said:
I've tried the Quorn bacon, look and taste like insoles.
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I've never tried insoles or quorn bacon so I can't comment ;) Quorn contains egg which I don't eat but anyway there are many other alternatives, they just aren't available in the supermarkets. :)
 
GreenNinja67 said:
Have faith in Gaia.

she is a self perpetuating mechanism and will sort herself out in her own time.

She normally does.
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Not with us around she won't! All that will happen is that as a species we'll kill ourselves out by the looks of it. Either through war, destruction of sources of oxygen (i.e rainforest), destruction of essential ecosystems (such as the bees dieing out) etc.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
I agree we all need kulling. Well, Canon users :D:nikon:
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I've not banned anyone from this thread for swearing, but in your case I'm prepared to make an exception :p

:canon:
 
htid said:
Quorn contains egg
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I didn't know that TBH I'm very fond of eggs, I tried Quorn once,
Just the once..... then off down the chippy for something decent :D
 
Cobra said:
I've not banned anyone from this thread for swearing, but in your case I'm prepared to make an exception :p

:canon:
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Wow 70k posts, I knew you had a high count but THAT high?? Has anybody ever reached 100k? You're surely going to be the first!
 
htid said:
because I haven't got the knowledge you have,.
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This may be the first time in TP history that someone has said that to Cobra :LOL: - usually we just abuse him and take the p***
 
htid said:
Wow 70k posts, I knew you had a high count but THAT high?? Has anybody ever reached 100k? You're surely going to be the first!
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a lot of them are in the staff room - but that aside its the friday night spam threads that do it
 
No accounting for appalling taste!!!


htid said:
But you're missing the point. I CHOOSE to be vegan, of course. I didn't choose to think that killing animals is wrong. I never made a consious decision to think "OK killing animals is wrong" it's just part of me. It wasn't how I was brought up as I've only been vegan 4 years. I met my current girlfriend who was vegan, she showed me what was involved and I felt it was wrong. Again, it was a choice to become vegan but not to believe it's wrong.
Murdereres choose to kill. They don't choose to think killing is wrong
Abusers choose to abuse. They don't choose to think abusing is wrong.

The alternative is that it is ingrained in you. You're basically agreeing with me.

You haven't answered my question. if you could rid the world of sexual slavery, FGM, rape etc. would you do it? Would you force what you find morally acceptable onto the rest of the world? Answer honestly.
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So you CHOSE to go vegan from veggie? Isn't that CHOOSING your moral stance? Come to think of it, wasn't changing your dietary preferences for your current partner entering into some sort of sexual slavery?

htid said:
I was vegetarian so I believed it was wrong but I didn't know the extent of cruelty involved in dairy and eggs (amongst other things). As long as I can remember I've always cared about animal welfare though.

With regards to the rest of the things you've said, we will have to agree to disagree then. I also find it abhorrent that you think people in other countries should be allowed to do what they want as long as it isn't illegal. If you truely believe and stick to what you're saying, by extension you wouldn't have banned slavery when it was illegal and you wouldn't disagree with child labour in countries where it is legal. To say you wouldn't seek to stop women being stoned to death in countries where it's legal is disgusting. I can't believe you have the gall to criticise me for wanting to impose my beliefs on people when you're happy for people to do whatever depraved things they wish as long as it's legal.
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Again, presumably at some point you CHOSE to change your moral stance for whatever reason?

htid said:
It does bring up an interesting question though: do we chose our morals? I clearly feel we don't and you feel we do. Obviously each of us only has 1 brain and can't know what anybody else feels about it, so I wonder what the outcome would be if we asked everybody. I feel sure people would think they don't chose them, but am happy to be proven wrong.
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See above re choosing morals...

htid said:
Ah but the question being discussed is can we choose what we feel is right or wrong? Can anybody suddenly choose to think "rape isn't wrong"? I know I can't just change my opinion as it's just part of me. If I try and tell myself right now "rape is OK", it doesn't work, I still feel it is wrong. Ruth obviously can make that choice as she's said, so it was about whether other people are able to. For all I know everybody except me could be the same as Ruth (well except the 5 people in my office that I've asked).
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You obviously have chosen what you feel is right or wrong - you used to think that eggs and milk were fine to eat but have since chosen to think that they're not.

Cobra said:
But what happens if said child rebels ? As children have a want to.
You can't drown it or put it back.

So I can see why Chris is taking the soft option on that.
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If it's a boy, it'll spend most of its teens trying to get back in... ;) :p


BTW, I'm still waiting to hear what sort of power is "100% green"...
 
htid said:
Wow 70k posts, I knew you had a high count but THAT high?? Has anybody ever reached 100k? You're surely going to be the first!
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Marcel is the next highest poster with 50 plus k most of the rest of the mods are lagging behind on 30 or so thousand , while Matt (MWHCVT) is the highest non mod poster with 32k ... however i have an evil plan, i shall just talk 5 times as much rubbish as a usually do and steal the 100k crown Mwuhuhuhuhuhu
 
Cobra said:
I didn't know that TBH I'm very fond of eggs, I tried Quorn once,
Just the once..... then off down the chippy for something decent :D
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My dog Cosworth, who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, would wolf down any treat you threw at him and I use to think, that must go down without touching the sides, does he even taste it . One day I threw him a bit of left over quorn 'chicken', he did his usually and wolfed it down and 1 sec later it came back out. So now I know the answer :D
 
Nod said:
No accounting for appalling taste!!!

So you CHOSE to go vegan from veggie? Isn't that CHOOSING your moral stance? Come to think of it, wasn't changing your dietary preferences for your current partner entering into some sort of sexual slavery?

Again, presumably at some point you CHOSE to change your moral stance for whatever reason?

See above re choosing morals...

You obviously have chosen what you feel is right or wrong - you used to think that eggs and milk were fine to eat but have since chosen to think that they're not.
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I made the choice to change from veggie to vegan but my morals didn't change. I abohred animal cruelty before being vegan and after becoming vegan. The difference is that before, I didn't realise there was cruelty involved in the egg and dairy industry (I was naive and like a lot of people I've spoke to, thought cows NEEDED milking as they produced it naturally. I didn't realise they were..AI'd ( ;) ) and I didn't realise the in the egg industry, the male chicks were killed after a day or two.) I didn't turn vegan FOR my girlfriend, I changed BECAUSE of her. She made me aware of the things I've just said above which I previously didn't know about. After I found out I turned vegan but my morals hadn't changed. I didn't chose what I feel is right or wrong, I just feel that killing animals is wrong but I can't explain why I feel it and I definitely can't choose to change it even if I wanted to.

Nod said:
BTW, I'm still waiting to hear what sort of power is "100% green"...
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OK maybe not 100% green, but that's how it's marketed. It's from Ecotricity: http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-green-energy/our-green-electricity
 
I had a vegan girlfriend wheni was at university - she was fit as a butchers dog (ironically) however the strain of pretending to be 'right on' was just too much and after about three weeks she binned me when she caught me eating a bacon sandwich :lol:
 
htid said:
I didn't realise the in the egg industry, the male chicks were killed after a day or two.
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Male chickens are pretty much surplus to requirements, in fact the dead ones are big business,
( you're gonna love this ;) ) generally, they are sold to zoo's private collectors falconers etc as food for the smaller animals and birds.
I think last time I paid just over £40 / 1000. and I'm only a light consumer.
My female Gyr x saker eats 3-4 a day and the male Harris Hawk 2 a day, as a staple diet, when they are working that increases +1 ea.
 
big soft moose said:
she binned me when she caught me eating a bacon sandwich
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Man cannot live by bread alone :thumbs:

I went out with a veggie for awhile, her imagination ran to Salmon and Broccoli ...
Needless to say, that didn't last long either :D
 
htid said:
OK maybe not 100% green, but that's how it's marketed. It's from Ecotricity: http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-green-energy/our-green-electricity
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The piles of redundant wind turbines are an eyesore and the production of solar panels, turbines etc. aren't green. Wind turbines also kill a huge number of animals which is why the blades need cleaning so often. Chances are that the wave/tide generators are also using some form of anti-fouling paint. Can't find any mention in there of the power being "100% green" either or was that an exaggeration?
 
Cobra said:
Man cannot live by bread alone (y)

I went out with a veggie for awhile, her imagination ran to Salmon and Broccoli ...
Needless to say, that didn't last long either :D
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She wasn't a veggie if she ate salmon!
 
Wind turbines are indeed an eyesore, so are solar panels (photovoltaics).

I've never understood why we don't harness more electricity from the power of water.

It's plentiful and the force of a moderate stream would turn quite a large turbine rotor, thereby generating a lot of power.

Just my twopenny worth.

Anyone know the reasons for not utilising this relatively free resource?
Is it more expensive to produce these turbines or has no one worked out how to solder underwater yet?
 
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My daughter says she is vegetarian, but she eats Duck and of course fish

I would never disillusion her
 
My missus is pescatarian.

But cooks me a lovely roast lamb!

Mind you we're both having vegetarian samosas tonight with chilli sauce from a local (Birmingham) Indian place.
 
Cobra said:
She thought she was and so do a lot of other people who claim to be Veggies but don't understand the definition.
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Corrected for you :)

Btw the girlfriend who's imagination extended to salmon and broccoli... I hope that wasn't a dig at the variety of our diet, because vegan cooking tends to be a lot more inspired than the stuff meat eaters come up with ;)
 
htid said:
Corrected for you :)
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Point accepted.

htid said:
Btw the girlfriend who's imagination extended to salmon and broccoli... I hope that wasn't a dig at the variety of our diet,
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Not at all it was a genuine personal experience.
And one I hope never to repeat!
(I don't particularly like either)

I know there is a lot more to vegetarians diet, and have been to a couple of Veggie parties / buffets, I certainly didn't go hungry, but did raise a few eyebrow's when I said OK what b*****d
has nicked all the meat? ( luckily I knew the hosts very well, and they knew my sense of humour :D )
The people concerned were bordering on Vegan, but as they rode horses, thought it hypocritical, to claim to be vegan.
 
htid said:
:)

I hope that wasn't a dig at the variety of our diet, because vegan cooking tends to be a lot more inspired than the stuff meat eaters come up with ;)
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I have experienced my Daughter's "Nut Roast" - Chris - lets just say I'll pass next time

and her - none meat sausages - which I regular have to cook when we have a Bar-B-Q ........ by mistake I would add
 
Mrs Nod is vegetarian while I follow the natural human diet. ;) Mrs Nod cooks far better meat dishes than most of mine, despite not tasting them during creation! Got several friends who used to be vegan but had to abandon their principles due to health issues (not necessarily related to their previous dietary choices, although they ALL enjoy better health now they eat a better diet) in their 40s/50s.
 
Cobra said:
Man cannot live by bread alone (y)

I went out with a veggie for awhile, her imagination ran to Salmon and Broccoli ...
Needless to say, that didn't last long either :D
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I WAS veggie for a few years.
Just went right off the taste.
Thankfully that taste returned! :-)
 
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