Would You Let a Gay Man Teach Your Children Performing Arts?

Byker28i said:
Guys - lets try and keep this civil for a possible interesting discussion. In these days of falling church attendances, a loss of faith generally, it would be interesting to hear from both sides of the argument.
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I wasn't being uncivil. I was genuinely asking for clarification.
 
Rapscallion said:
You are the only person to draw a parallel between homosexuality and paedophilia.....And you wonder why some gay people don't want to come out.
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You seriously need to start from the beginning of the thread. The only parallels I drew were between equal rights of homosexuals and peoples religious beliefs as stated in the equal opportunities act.
Any similarities or parallels will have been drawn by the thoughts that have crept into your head.
 
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nilagin said:
And even though you have different beliefs, that doesn't entitle you to discriminate against her beliefs as you have done so in several posts, which makes you a narrow minded self centered bigot.
The law does not state under what circumstances a person can chose to take their custom. That is freedom of choice afforded to all races, sexualities etc.
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I have never discriminated against anyone based on their beliefs, which again, is the salient point. And puts me as much more tolerant than the lady under discussion. I'm happy to photograph weddings for CofE Catholic, agnostic, Muslim, Hindus, Sikhs or atheists, gays, trans-gender or even Scientologists.

You calling me a bigot doesn't make it so :)

In fact all it does is to paint you in a poor light. The fact that I don't agree that other people should discriminate doesn't make me small minded, it keeps me on the right side of the law, and what I understand of modern 'Christian' beliefs (how ironic)!

Whereas that lady, well she's just wrong, and oddly, if she's chosen the right God, and she gets her judgement day, she'll find out the hard way. Of course, even if one of the religions is right, and she has chosen the wrong one... She's screwed there too. In fact given how many there are to choose from, and how choosing the wrong one is an automatic wrong choice, maybe I stand more chance in the afterlife than all the religious people, I've not nailed my colours to the wrong mast.

Of course we all know that's not going to happen though, as we're all intelligent adults and can see religion for what it is.
 
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Phil V said:
Of course we all know that's not going to happen though, as we're all intelligent adults and can see religion for what it is.
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Many intelligent adults get indoctrinated at a young age. And, with help of their elders, find ways to twist an argument to bolster those beliefs in their mind. This has been going on for centuries.
 
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Phil V said:
I have never discriminated against anyone based on their beliefs, which again, is the salient point.

Of course we all know that's not going to happen though, as we're all intelligent adults and can see religion for what it is.
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Oh what a short memory you have.
Phil V said:
Someone's belief in sky fairies doesn't mean they can decide when to follow the law. And swearing on the bible in court? Other options have been allowed for many years.

It seems to me you're not playing devils advocate and you really do side with this stupid superstitious bitch. Frankly, it cements my opinion, but it does somehow undermine your belief that you're the nice guy. :)
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That my dear friend is still discrimination. You are just choosing to hide behind your keyboard, whilst you exercise your discriminated and bigoted views.
 
nilagin said:
You seriously need to start from the beginning of the thread. The only parallels I drew were between equal rights of homosexuals and peoples religious beliefs as stated in the equal opportunities act.
Any similarities or parallels will have been drawn by the thoughts that have crept into your head.
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i must have dreamt this post where you responded to 'boogie man'

nilagin said:
So it must be okay for p****'s and zooists then after all it's only their sexual preference. She has withdrawn her children from his class because of her religious beliefs. She's not wished him dead or demanded he be stoned to death.
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Its a direct comparison of gay people with paedophiles no question about it. That is what you wrote and quoted above for posterity.
 
Byker28i said: ↑
Guys - lets try and keep this civil for a possible interesting discussion. In these days of falling church attendances, a loss of faith generally, it would be interesting to hear from both sides of the argument.
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That's not really going to happen because of the sheer amount of 'sharpness' going on and the huge effort it takes to overcome all that and continue trying to post helpfully. Trying to post in 'religious arguments' is about as rewarding as shaving with a bare razor blade: things may look a little better when you've finished, but you'll get cut along the way even if you're careful.
 
In the past couple of weeks here, we have had:

One religious person post a link to an evangelist's video that claims that a diagram of the protein laminin in the shape of a cross proves that a god designed us.

Another religious person saying of the first life on Earth, that a god made "male and female with the ability not only for life to survive but also to reproduce", totally ignoring the fact that early life reproduced asexually.

A third religious person ask "If we did in fact evolve from apes, which apes did we evolve from and why? Evolution would suggest changes for the better, so why do apes still exist and not become extinct?".

I have to conclude that believing in a god should feature a health warning. A mental health warning.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
In the past couple of weeks here, we have had:

One religious person post a link to an evangelist's video that claims that a diagram of the protein laminin in the shape of a cross proves that a god designed us.

Another religious person saying of the first life on Earth, that a god made "male and female with the ability not only for life to survive but also to reproduce", totally ignoring the fact that early life reproduced asexually.

A third religious person ask "If we did in fact evolve from apes, which apes did we evolve from and why? Evolution would suggest changes for the better, so why do apes still exist and not become extinct?".

I have to conclude that believing in a god should feature a health warning. A mental health warning.
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So, let me get this right, you are saying people who believe in God are mentally ill or have mental health issues? Please correct me if I've got your opinion wrong.
 
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nilagin said:
Oh what a short memory you have.

That my dear friend is still discrimination. You are just choosing to hide behind your keyboard, whilst you exercise your discriminated and bigoted views.
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That (certainly not my friend) is not discrimination, as you've been told repeatedly. Discrimination occurs in the way that you treat people based on your beliefs. I have had no dealings with her, and if I had to deal with her professionally tomorrow, I'd be polite and tolerant.

That doesn't mean I can't hold an opinion about her.

But that's loads of times you've been told that now, you do seem to be unable to understand that very simple point. I won't repeat it, it seems beyond your understanding.
 
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BRASH said:
So, let me get this right, you are saying people who believe in God are mentally ill? Please correct me if I've got your opinion wrong.
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Well if they're claiming to listen to the voice of "god", there's definitely a name for that. End of. ;)
 
viv1969 said:
Well if they're claiming to listen to the voice of "god", there's definitely a name for that. End of. ;)
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That name being?
 
BRASH said:
So, let me get this right, you are saying people who believe in God are mentally ill or have mental health issues? Please correct me if I've got your opinion wrong.
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No, you took my words too literally. However I don't deny questioning their intelligence.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
No, you took my words too literally.
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That's why I asked for clarification as I thought someone with a reasonable amount of intelligence as yourself couldn't possibly hold such an abhorant, ignorant and bigoted view.
 
nilagin said:
You seriously need to start from the beginning of the thread. The only parallels I drew were between equal rights of homosexuals and peoples religious beliefs as stated in the equal opportunities act.
Any similarities or parallels will have been drawn by the thoughts that have crept into your head.
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This was you, apropos of nothing, if you weren't making a direct comparison, you'll have to explain how so many of us read it wrong, it seems fairly unambiguous to me.

nilagin said:
So it must be okay for p****'s and zooists then after all it's only their sexual preference. She has withdrawn her children from his class because of her religious beliefs. She's not wished him dead or demanded he be stoned to death.
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Ricardodaforce said:
In the past couple of weeks here, we have had:

One religious person post a link to an evangelist's video that claims that a diagram of the protein laminin in the shape of a cross proves that a god designed us.

Another religious person saying of the first life on Earth, that a god made "male and female with the ability not only for life to survive but also to reproduce", totally ignoring the fact that early life reproduced asexually.

A third religious person ask "If we did in fact evolve from apes, which apes did we evolve from and why? Evolution would suggest changes for the better, so why do apes still exist and not become extinct?".

I have to conclude that believing in a god should feature a health warning. A mental health warning.
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Did they, odd same question that I asked. I wonder who asked it first.
 
Phil V said:
That (certainly not my friend) is not discrimination, as you've been told repeatedly. Discrimination occurs in the way that you treat people based on your beliefs. I have had no dealings with her, and if I had to deal with her professionally tomorrow, I'd be polite and tolerant.

That doesn't mean I can't hold an opinion about her.

But that's loads of times you've been told that now, you do seem to be unable to understand that very simple point. I won't repeat it, it seems beyond your understanding.
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Only two reasons you'd be polite and tolerant first and foremost to line your pocket, secondly the law says so.
Remarks that you have made about the woman still discriminate against her and her beliefs whether you have had dealings with her or not.
 
Rapscallion said:
i must have dreamt this post where you responded to 'boogie man'



Its a direct comparison of gay people with paedophiles no question about it. That is what you wrote and quoted above for posterity.
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Phil V said:
This was you, apropos of nothing, if you weren't making a direct comparison, you'll have to explain how so many of us read it wrong, it seems fairly unambiguous to me.
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Go back and read the post I quoted and anyone with an ounce of intelligence will be able to work it out.
 
nilagin said:
Only two reasons you'd be polite and tolerant first and foremost to line your pocket, secondly the law says so.
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Nope, I'm a nice guy, there are plenty of people here who've met me and will vouch for me, or you could just look at what else I've been posting this weekend, helping others out, which I do because I love photography and I love helping people. What else have you done for strangers this weekend?

Also lots of my in-laws are religious (including a couple of ministers - different denominations) they know I'm an Atheist but find me funny and charming and respectful of their life choice*, whilst that respect goes both ways we will love each other like all families should.

It's an often repeated phrase from pseudo religious people* that Atheists must be self centred or uncaring, the opposite however is the obvious truth (though it takes critical thinking). Religions promise everlasting paradise in return for following the rules. So religious people being 'good' could be seen as a selfish act. OTOH I don't believe I have anything to 'gain' from doing the right thing, I do it because it's the right thing. It's not complicated, as I said I love people, and I enjoy helping people, so being nice to them is easy, until they prove to me they're unworthy of my respect and help, then they no longer get it. It's simple, unselfish, caring, all you'd expect from someone whose living depends on the way I engage with people (in both my day job, and my part time occupation). Gone are the days when people would put up with an a******e with a camera because he was the only choice.

*actual proper religious people don't seem to care about non-believers in that way :)
nilagin said:
Remarks that you have made about the woman still discriminate against her and her beliefs whether you have had dealings with her or not.
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I'm not repeating it, you clearly don't want to understand, that is beginning to say a lot about you :)
 
My case and belief is again proven.
 
Hmm... Perhaps to a couple of other people who hold similar, discriminatory views. It seems that the majority of contributors on here don't agree with you. To do what she did based on his sexuality is discriminatory. I don't care whether it is legal or not. People pick and choose whatever they want from whatever source they like to justify their own choices and actions. As to proving a belief? What nonsense. Good luck proving the existence of your God or any other deity that people follow. All discrimination proves is that some people are intolerant and seem to need to broadcast that; maybe it makes them feel better to do so. Either way, it is unpleasant and unnecessary.
 
Phil V said:
So you can't explain it then?
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It's simple enough. The post I quoted said Christians should love everyone (or neighbour) as themselves and should not judge anyone. Which would mean a Christian isn't allowed to judge anyone. There was no comparison to homosexuality made or inferred. It was simply a dig at people like yourself who take great delight in finding fault in Christians picking and choosing what they believe, yet that is exactly what you are doing trying to belittle their belief and use it against them.
Be an atheist by all means, but there is no need to be downright rude about it. I'm sure your relations would be most proud to see the real you and how you conduct yourself on the internet.
 
Eek.. I think nilagin might apply that last sentence to himself. Phil made one comment that he said on reflection was harsh; you think it is ok to discriminate because it was written thousands of years ago; in this same book it says an awful lot of other things which do not apply to the modern world and sound ridiculous when quoted. Discriminating against a person for his sexuality also sounds ridiculous to the vast majority of people on here. I imagine Phil's relatives are entirely proud of him. What is sad is that you can't see how out of synch your comments are with the vast majority of people on here. But there you go. you will carry on thinking that you showed him up. Quite the opposite. Phil ,if you are going to the Photography show on the same day, I would be entirely pleased to meet you.
 
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Chipper said:
Eek.. I think nilagin might apply that last sentence to himself. Phil made one comment that he said on reflection was harsh; you think it is ok to discriminate because it was written thousands of years ago; in this same book it says an awful lot of other things which do not apply to the modern world and sound ridiculous when quoted. Discriminating against a person for his sexuality also sounds ridiculous to the vast majority of people on here. I imagine Phil's relatives are entirely proud of him. What is sad is that you can't see how out of synch your comments are with the vast majority of people on here. But there you go. you will carry on thinking that you showed him up. Quite the opposite. Phil ,if you are going to the Photography show on the same day, I would be entirely pleased to meet you.
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And you are discriminating against peoples beliefs also. As someone has already pointed out, anyone is free to not chose to spend their money if the service provider or whatever does not fit their ideals or beliefs. You can't force them to do so, no matter how ridiculous or discriminate you may think their reasoning. What is sad is you and others can't take the woman's reasoning as an up front reason, perhaps you'd prefer she just lied and said his classes were just crap and not worth the money.
I'd respect someone for being honest even if I didn't like it rather than be lied to as that is just two faced bull.
 
nilagin said:
And you are discriminating against peoples beliefs also. As someone has already pointed out, anyone is free to not chose to spend their money if the service provider or whatever does not fit their ideals or beliefs. You can't force them to do so, no matter how ridiculous or discriminate you may think their reasoning. What is sad is you and others can't take the woman's reasoning as an up front reason, perhaps you'd prefer she just lied and said his classes were just crap and not worth the money.
I'd respect someone for being honest even if I didn't like it rather than be lied to as that is just two faced bull.
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The woman discriminates. Not good. Can't see that anyone here has said they'd not deal with you because you are a christian, so how have you been discriminated against?
 
nilagin said:
It's simple enough. The post I quoted said Christians should love everyone (or neighbour) as themselves and should not judge anyone. Which would mean a Christian isn't allowed to judge anyone. There was no comparison to homosexuality made or inferred. It was simply a dig at people like yourself who take great delight in finding fault in Christians picking and choosing what they believe, yet that is exactly what you are doing trying to belittle their belief and use it against them.
Be an atheist by all means, but there is no need to be downright rude about it. I'm sure your relations would be most proud to see the real you and how you conduct yourself on the internet.
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I don't feel compelled to believe 'anything' without evidence. Therefore I'm free to believe, based on what I know of the lady in the original story that she's an awful person, who uses her faith as a crutch to justify her nasty mind. It's not a 'Christian' issue at all. I don't dislike her because she's a Christian, I dislike the way she behaved, which makes her a bad person (to reasonable people). Her religion only has relevance because she chose to hide her bigotry behind it, it's actually irrelevant.

I would go as far as to say that she's not a 'Christian' at all. The fact that you feel compelled to defend her bigotry likewise reflects poorly on you.

One of the issues with some Christians is they see Atheism as 'anti Christian' no matter how many times we say it, we only renounce one more God than they do, they're renouncing hundreds if not thousands of belief systems, we're just adding one more, we're not singling Christians out.

Your post re paedos and homosexuals makes no sense other than the way it was read by me and others, you still haven't really done or said anything to prove an innocent point.
 
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