Will fox hunting be legal again?

viv1969 said:
Some of the most vile, hate-filled and intolerant people I've known have been deeply religious
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Now we have to wait for the 'Hitler was an Atheist' comments... :whistle:


Not that it's true...
 
viv1969 said:
Some of the most vile, hate-filled and intolerant people I've known have been deeply religious
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You do get a bit of bad sheep everywhere. Without religion these people only have a fear of law to stop them doing something incredibly bad. As we know police can't enforce the law 100% in all instances and the law has some gaps particularly if you know some high end lawyers and accountants. The rest is down the hill. The general state of morale and attitude toward each other has severely degraded over the last 50-100 years or so, and is particularly pronounced in overpopullated places like London in particular. This is in parallel with decline of religion. Try to chat someone on a tube and you'll be called a perv, and perhaps even arrested. Great. Maybe I'll wear a burqa next time I'm down there. It seems to be in fashion. Look at communist Russia just after the regime fell and you'll clearly see where the lack of religion leads to. Except this won't happen here. We'll be all muslims before I'm a pensioner.
 
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daugirdas said:
You do get a bit of bad sheep everywhere. Without religion these people only have a fear of law to stop them doing something incredibly bad. As we know police can't enforce the law 100% in all instances and the law has some gaps particularly if you know some high end lawyers and accountants. The rest is down the hill. The general state of morale and attitude toward each other has severely degraded over the last 50-100 years or so, and is particularly pronounced in overpopullated places like London in particular. This is in parallel with decline of religion. Try to chat someone on a tube and you'll be called a perv, and perhaps even arrested. Great. Maybe I'll wear a burqa next time I'm down there. It seems to be in fashion. Look at communist Russia just after the regime fell and you'll clearly see where the lack of religion leads to. Except this won't happen here. We'll be all muslims before I'm a pensioner.
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My little book is going to get worn out at this rate.

That was numbers 3, 8 and 14.
 
daugirdas said:
You do get a bit of bad sheep everywhere. Without religion these people only have a fear of law to stop them doing something incredibly bad. As we know police can't enforce the law 100% in all instances and the law has some gaps particularly if you know some high end lawyers and accountants. The rest is down the hill. The general state of morale and attitude toward each other has severely degraded over the last 50-100 years or so, and is particularly pronounced in overpopullated places like London in particular. This is in parallel with decline of religion. Try to chat someone on a tube and you'll be called a perv, and perhaps even arrested. Great. Maybe I'll wear a burqa next time I'm down there. It seems to be in fashion. Look at communist Russia just after the regime fell and you'll clearly see where the lack of religion leads to. Except this won't happen here. We'll be all either beheaded by radical muslims or forced to convert to Islam by evil militants the time I draw my pension.
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Fixed that for you....
 
ghoti said:
Christianity and Islam are part of the same religion. They all worship the same "god". The core ethics & "laws" of Christianity, Judaism and Islam come from the same basic source - the Old Testament/Torah. The book of Leviticus in particular.
So drawing a distinction between Christian and Islamic "law" is stupid.
The structure of western ethics and moral philosophy owes more to the enlightenment and secularism than to any religion.
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The problem with islam is some very negative and violent twists that seem to be deeply in fashion these days. Prophet Mohammad was not the most peaceful man on Earth, in fact quite the opposite and this is sadly picked up by groups like DAEASH. Christianity also had a dark period, but we are now very civilised. Islam needs a lot of time to sort out itself and for now we don't want the radical versions spreading this way.

Phil V said:
Hitler was an Atheist
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Now we are talking (y). This thread is brill

edit: and so was the even more evil man Stalin.
 
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daugirdas said:
The problem with islam is some very negative and violent twists that seem to be deeply in fashion these days. Prophet Mohammad was not the most peaceful man on Earth, in fact quite the opposite and this is sadly picked up by groups like DAEASH. Christianity also had a dark period, but we are now very civilised. Islam needs a lot of time to sort out itself and for now we don't want the radical versions spreading this way.
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Hahaha. "Christianity had a dark period but we are now very civilised" - you know what brought Europe out of the dark ages? The Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Periods when thought freed itself from religious structures. It was thinking outside of religious/Christian structures that made us "very civilised".
We're civilised in SPITE of Christianity. Not because of it.
 
daugirdas said:
You do get a bit of bad sheep everywhere. Without religion these people only have a fear of law to stop them doing something incredibly bad. As we know police can't enforce the law 100% in all instances and the law has some gaps particularly if you know some high end lawyers and accountants. The rest is down the hill. The general state of morale and attitude toward each other has severely degraded over the last 50-100 years or so, and is particularly pronounced in overpopullated places like London in particular. This is in parallel with decline of religion. Try to chat someone on a tube and you'll be called a perv, and perhaps even arrested. Great. Maybe I'll wear a burqa next time I'm down there. It seems to be in fashion. Look at communist Russia just after the regime fell and you'll clearly see where the lack of religion leads to. Except this won't happen here. We'll be all muslims before I'm a pensioner.
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Whilst you're right about the Moral decline, you're seeing the wrong cause for the effect.
When people returned from the First World War they no longer followed their 'elders and betters' without question, which led to a seismic shift in attitude. This grew through the last Century until it finally came home to roost with the right wing Monetarist politics of the 80's which promoted the self above society. It also became apparent that the old order were morally corrupt whilst they ensured the hoi poloi went to church, feared God and kept to the straight and narrow.

You can see evidence in this thread of the attitudes that were cemented back in the 80's, and they're held as much ny 'religious' people as they are by non religious people.

From the outside though, religion encourages corruption, if you were a Gay Catholic teenager 50 years ago, feeling all the 'wrong' things about your classmates, would you act on those feelings, or would you throw yourself further into your Faith in the hope you would find an answer? And so why is it that those feelings ended up where they did. In a protected environment where discussion of that perverse behaviour was brushed under the carpet. It's not a case of 'bad luck' those faults were 'designed in'.
 
ghoti said:
Hahaha. "Christianity had a dark period but we are now very civilised" - you know what brought Europe out of the dark ages? The Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Periods when thought freed itself from religious structures. It was thinking outside of religious/Christian structures that made us "very civilised".
We're civilised in SPITE of Christianity. Not because of it.
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This (the whitewash that Christianity can do to it's history is astonishing)
How many hundreds of years did the Roman Catholic church put back Science?
 
daugirdas said:
You do get a bit of bad sheep everywhere. Without religion these people only have a fear of law to stop them doing something incredibly bad. As we know police can't enforce the law 100% in all instances and the law has some gaps particularly if you know some high end lawyers and accountants. The rest is down the hill. The general state of morale and attitude toward each other has severely degraded over the last 50-100 years or so, and is particularly pronounced in overpopullated places like London in particular. This is in parallel with decline of religion. Try to chat someone on a tube and you'll be called a perv, and perhaps even arrested. Great. Maybe I'll wear a burqa next time I'm down there. It seems to be in fashion. Look at communist Russia just after the regime fell and you'll clearly see where the lack of religion leads to. Except this won't happen here. We'll be all muslims before I'm a pensioner.
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ST4 said:
Fixed that for you....
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And there you have it.:clap::clap:
Your 'Christian' moral high ground in all it's glory. :D
You don't need people who disagree with you to make your point look ridiculous, it's done much better by the good Christian people who agree with you.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
ghoti said:
Hahaha. "Christianity had a dark period but we are now very civilised" - you know what brought Europe out of the dark ages? The Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Periods when thought freed itself from religious structures. It was thinking outside of religious/Christian structures that made us "very civilised".
We're civilised in SPITE of Christianity. Not because of it.
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Give this a minute or two http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/renaissance2/religion.htm

Renaissance brought a lot of welcome change to the perception of religion and our relationship with it, but it never abolished it, but rather started looking at it from the origins and gave it a fresh new start. We should be proud of this cultural heritage
 
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daugirdas said:
Give this a minute or two http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/renaissance2/religion.htm

Renaissance brought a lot of welcome change to the perception of religion and our relationship with it, but it never abolished it, but rather started looking at it from the origins and gave it a fresh new start. We should be proud of this cultural heritage
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I never said the Renaissance abolished religion (obviously it didn't), but it freed thought from religious authority and helped reduce that authority.
 
ST4 said:
Would you rather it was built on Islam?
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It looks like he would. Atheism is too hollow to stand against the torrent of radical islam. There is already critical mass of people over in UK. They only need to get radicalised (brainwashed) and then Birmingham and London would become part of IS almost overnight.
 
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ghoti said:
I never said the Renaissance abolished religion (obviously it didn't), but it freed thought from religious authority and helped reduce that authority.
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OK, so how is your comment the relevant to my earlier post? :) It's not.
 
ST4 said:
Have you seen the Islamic moral highground...

Looks like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3156921/Isis-s-female-Gestapo-wreaking-terror-sex.html

Sign me up!!!
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I'm not arguing for Islam Steve, your Church is doing the defending of them. This isn't a re-run of the Crusades. It's Right vs Wrong, and much of the 'Wrong' is being done in the name of one God or another, we won't fix that by choosing which God to side with will we?

You won't look at the 'funny on purpose' stuff - please don't quote the Daily Mail at me, it's history is abhorrent, and it's present isn't much better. But it pretends to agree with you about God - so you can feel free to carry on reading it.
 
daugirdas said:
Give this a minute or two http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/renaissance2/religion.htm

Renaissance brought a lot of welcome change to the perception of religion and our relationship with it, but it never abolished it, but rather started looking at it from the origins and gave it a fresh new start. We should be proud of this cultural heritage
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Well done for providing us the first link on google for religion and renaissance (that doesn't contain the argument you have in your post, but hey, we didn't expect you to actually read it....)
 
daugirdas said:
OK, so how is your comment the relevant to my earlier post? :) It's not.
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It was relevant. You said that European/Western civilisation was built on Christianity. I said that we only became civilised when we started to look beyond Christianity for answers. Of course Christianity remained an important part of the wider culture but dogma and religious dominance in education, law, and academia were weakened by the main civilising forces in European history - the Renaissance and, moreso, the enlightenment.
 
ghoti said:
It was relevant. You said that European/Western civilisation was built on Christianity. I said that we only became civilised when we started to look beyond Christianity for answers. Of course Christianity remained an important part of the wider culture but dogma and religious dominance in education, law, and academia were weakened by the main civilising forces in European history - the Renaissance and, moreso, the enlightenment.
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We can look at it this way if you wish. Many of the more problematic branches of islam flat out reject Renaissance spirit and anything that comes with it including art and freedom of thought and expression. Renaissance is part of christian heritage even if it was observed as a radical departure by some in its early days. Renaissance art is still very clearly heavily influenced by the christian tradition, which is a clear reflection of the true state of affairs back then.
Rejection of christian culture would inevitably have a heavy toll on the rest of our cultural heritage. Jihadists would burn your art heritage and force you to think and behave like they want. I know which I'd very happily choose.
 
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daugirdas said:
We can look at it this way if you wish. Many of the more problematic branches of islam flat out reject Renaissance spirit and anything that comes with it including art and freedom of thought and expression. Renaissance is part of christian heritage even if it was observed as a radical departure by some in its early days. Renaissance art is still very clearly heavily influenced by the christian tradition, which is a clear reflection of the true state of affairs back then.
Rejection of christian culture would inevitably have a heavy toll on the rest of our cultural heritage. Jihadists would burn your art heritage and force you to think and behave like they want. I know which I'd very happily choose.
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There are many Christians who reject renaissance spirit and the enlightenment. Yes, we have religious art from the Renaissance. The Renaissance was not the END of religion. Rather it was the first big step in moving away from religious authority. Religion started to lose its grip during the Renaissance and Europe became more civilised as a result.
 
Steve Smith said:
So this is still about fox hunting, right?
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I think its evolved from hunting things with 4 legs to hunting things with 2 TBH
And that includes some of the posters.
Play nice people,
last chance before the
 
Steve Smith said:
I would rather it was not built on any mythology, be it Christian, Islam Greek, etc.


Steve.
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Can't change history.
We can however admit, with all we've learned, what a ridiculous thing it us to live one's life according to a set of ancient fairytales.
 
ghoti said:
There are many Christians who reject renaissance spirit and the enlightenment. Yes, we have religious art from the Renaissance. The Renaissance was not the END of religion. Rather it was the first big step in moving away from religious authority. Religion started to lose its grip during the Renaissance and Europe became more civilised as a result.
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And there are many atheist who have have very oppressive views. Stalin, Kim Jong Un, chairman Mao to name just a few of the very worst and the most evil. There are nasty people everywhere.

We can go back to the 4th century Christian Rome. Things were very civilised back then - we only caught up somewhere in 18-19th century. It's great shame the empire fell to crude barbarian illegal immigrants who used religion for the gain of power and control of peasants a bit like jihadists do now. However the christianity survived the dark ages and re-emerged in its original form in the renaissance. Religion was never supposed to be an oppressive structure - it is a spiritual guide. Even the Bible clearly separates God from the local authority. What happened in the dark ages is very regrettable. However this means we should not blame the religion as a whole but the manipulative and selfish leaders of those days.
 
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daugirdas said:
...
Rejection of christian culture would inevitably have a heavy toll on the rest of our cultural heritage. Jihadists would burn your art heritage and force you to think and behave like they want. I know which I'd very happily choose.
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This is hilarious, you really do think this is 1115AD not 2015 don't you.

Atheism isn't anti Christian, to be an Atheist isn't siding with Islam, it's being intelligent enough to realise that the 'religion' you grew up with is just an accident of Birth, and if you'd been born in a very different land your religion and values would be completely different, and just as likely to be completely wrong ;)
 
POAH said:
Lol, we have the angry white and thick crowd back again!
thats what she said
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Angry-mob-543.jpg


:P
 
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Phil V said:
This is hilarious, you really do think this is 1115AD not 2015 don't you.

Atheism isn't anti Christian, to be an Atheist isn't siding with Islam, it's being intelligent enough to realise that the 'religion' you grew up with is just an accident of Birth, and if you'd been born in a very different land your religion and values would be completely different, and just as likely to be completely wrong ;)
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02/07/2015 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/02/isis-militants-destroy-palmyra-stone-lion-al-lat

Need I say any more?
 
Phil V said:
Now we have to wait for the 'Hitler was an Atheist' comments... :whistle:


Not that it's true...
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Appropriate that you mention Adolf...

Attempting to return the thread to its original purpose (at Cobra's request), it's interesting to note that the National Socialist Govt in Germany was the first (and until relatively recently only) western
country to ban hunting with hounds in 1934.

The were also the first country in the world to implement full animal welfare protection with a ban on vivisection in 1933.


They started practising on humans a couple of years later instead.
 
Rapscallion said:
I was referring to the title of a previous thread.

EDIT:
Link
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/angry-white-and-thick.575009/page-34

The point I am making is that it is the same crowd posting nonsense - and that is what they are posting, nonsense, and don't try and say that it is just because I disagree I am saying these things. There are lots of things I disagree with that are not nonsense, but please lets call it like it is, the content of posts in these and many other threads contributed by the same group are plainly idiotic drivel attempting to get a reaction. That is what I was referring to as the angry white and thick crowd, headed by the grand master troll (not my words by the way).
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Well you are posting in here. And so am I. I don't know about you, but I am definitely not angry and not thick. Some of be nonsense that is being posting is actually constantly directed to playing the person opposed the points and there is a lot of factually wrong reactions. There are a few that just keep on popping in without contributing to a discussion but only make snide remarks to and about those that are engaged.

Yet somehow they, like you, see yourself as better. Perhaps learn to engage on a discussion without playing the person and try and engage on the topic.

Naturally you are just as free to express your opinion, it just comes across as super two faced like a pot calling the kettle black.
 
daugirdas said:
02/07/2015 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/02/isis-militants-destroy-palmyra-stone-lion-al-lat

Need I say any more?
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WTF?
Not liking what IS are doing has nothing to do with religion, burying your head beleiving that there'll be some kind of Christian led uprising is stupid.

Atheist - look it up. Tell me how you think that would be in support of IS, or the Christian far right or the Jews killing Muslims or any other terror that's commited in the name of God.

I see IS as Terrorists, you see them as Muslims. I know plenty of Muslims who are as horrified as you are about what's happening out there. But the more idiots conflate Islam with Terrorism, the more of those ordinary peace loving Muslims will feel the need to fight back. The Wests right wing media are feeding this stupidity, God isn't going to stop it, we have to start examining the real story and do it soon.
 
Phil V said:
WTF?
Not liking what IS are doing has nothing to do with religion, burying your head beleiving that there'll be some kind of Christian led uprising is stupid.

Atheist - look it up. Tell me how you think that would be in support of IS, or the Christian far right or the Jews killing Muslims or any other terror that's commited in the name of God.

I see IS as Terrorists, you see them as Muslims. I know plenty of Muslims who are as horrified as you are about what's happening out there. But the more idiots conflate Islam with Terrorism, the more of those ordinary peace loving Muslims will feel the need to fight back. The Wests right wing media are feeding this stupidity, God isn't going to stop it, we have to start examining the real story and do it soon.
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Smartest post in the thread.
 
Phil V said:
WTF?
Not liking what IS are doing has nothing to do with religion, burying your head beleiving that there'll be some kind of Christian led uprising is stupid.

Atheist - look it up. Tell me how you think that would be in support of IS, or the Christian far right or the Jews killing Muslims or any other terror that's commited in the name of God.

I see IS as Terrorists, you see them as Muslims. I know plenty of Muslims who are as horrified as you are about what's happening out there. But the more idiots conflate Islam with Terrorism, the more of those ordinary peace loving Muslims will feel the need to fight back. The Wests right wing media are feeding this stupidity, God isn't going to stop it, we have to start examining the real story and do it soon.
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If you read my posts you can clearly see that I refer to radical branches of islam. It will be the very ones that spread it here and force it upon us, not the Shia moderates that our governments are so keen to oppress for some reason. My views are very clear and simple and would attract the backing of many americans for sure. Western culture in Christian culture; we welcome other beliefs and views as long as they tolerate and DO NOT INTERFERE with ours. Now this radical muslim thing has crossed many red lines over last few years and needs to be contained back by deportations and detentions if need be. Tolerance is good up to a point but it needs to evolve a step to make sure the status quo is protected against those abusing it and claiming benefits at the same time.

I don't have issues with you being atheist for as long as you don't force your truth to others dismissing other views and cultural heritage as pish.
 
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