Why are people buying electric cars?

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AndrewFlannigan said:
However, wind is totally unreliable.

The one thing that is reliable, really reliable, is tidal energy but there doesn't appear to be an appetite for that... :thinking:
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It's been done, but the engineering challenges are much greater than wind or solar, and the cost is high, plus it also has a significant environmental impact.

To me, solar is the obvious route, and with panels on every roof we could produce a lot of our 'own' electricity.
 
For those saying that innovation will be hampered, there can still be proprietary non-swap systems (not sure how many times this has to be said).

Also, I would assume that a battery swap station could be designed to be recalibrated to allow for innovation changes. Fairly similar principle to how car manufacturing plant can be recalibrated for new models, although I believe it can be quite expensive but is obviously far more involved and advanced.

As for standardisation, many things with cars are already largely standardised either fully or almost, at least certainly in the EU and they are either already here or are on the way and many are mandatory:

OBD2
Fuel tank inlet sizes
Airbags
Common warning symbols
Electronic Stability Control systems
Emergency Brake Assist
Electric Power steering instead of hydraulic
Throttle by wire
Daytime Running Lights
Start-Stop
Anti-Theft immobiliser
12V batteries and connections
Fuses
Tyres
Electrical & Safety component have to meet industry standards
Emissions standards
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
However, wind is totally unreliable.

The one thing that is reliable, really reliable, is tidal energy but there doesn't appear to be an appetite for that... :thinking:
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It isn't totally unreliable, otherwise there would be no turbines.

What it is is inconsistent.
 
Renewables need variety (wind, solar, hydro, tidal) and storage.

Consumption needs to be less "It's what I want" and more 'It's what can be done".
 
Pound Coin said:
Renewables need variety (wind, solar, hydro, tidal) and storage.

Consumption needs to be less "It's what I want" and more 'It's what can be done".
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the whole point of renewables its it reduces the need for fossil but it also needs balance but when you look at the long term results it is the way forward.
I also do echo other peoples thoughts about we need more solar in the UK especially on commercial units with huge roof spaces.
supermarkets especially.

just looking at the past year you can see we are punching ahead

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gman said:
For those saying that innovation will be hampered, there can still be proprietary non-swap systems (not sure how many times this has to be said).

Also, I would assume that a battery swap station could be designed to be recalibrated to allow for innovation changes. Fairly similar principle to how car manufacturing plant can be recalibrated for new models, although I believe it can be quite expensive but is obviously far more involved and advanced.

As for standardisation, many things with cars are already largely standardised either fully or almost, at least certainly in the EU and they are either already here or are on the way and many are mandatory:

OBD2
Fuel tank inlet sizes
Airbags
Common warning symbols
Electronic Stability Control systems
Emergency Brake Assist
Electric Power steering instead of hydraulic
Throttle by wire
Daytime Running Lights
Start-Stop
Anti-Theft immobiliser
12V batteries and connections
Fuses
Tyres
Electrical & Safety component have to meet industry standards
Emissions standards
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What I meant in hampering innovation, was looking more at that if a common battery and change system was to be adopted you would have to build a car around that. As an example the mini wouldn't have been built if it had to fit into a common system.
I had already said there is a lot of collaboration between manufacturers.
 
:thinking:
munch said:
What I meant in hampering innovation, was looking more at that if a common battery and change system was to be adopted you would have to build a car around that.
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That's a clear indication of the advantage of the internal combustion engine over the electric engine, at the present state of the art.

It's far more efficient to use a flamable liquid that can be transported in any other vehicle and poured into the fuel tank, than to either swap a heavy battery or plug something in for an hour or more.

If and when a battery is developed, which weighs the same as, say, a 5 litre Gerry Can and provides the same range as the contents of the can, then the whole thing will make sense.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
:thinking:

That's a clear indication of the advantage of the internal combustion engine over the electric engine, at the present state of the art.

It's far more efficient to use a flamable liquid that can be transported in any other vehicle and poured into the fuel tank, than to either swap a heavy battery or plug something in for an hour or more.

If and when a battery is developed, which weighs the same as, say, a 5 litre Gerry Can and provides the same range as the contents of the can, then the whole thing will make sense.
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More mistruths!

I have been sad enough to work out a rough calculation, and I have saved time over last 2 years with electric v petrol, as I fill up at home, so 10 secs to unplug and plug a couple of times a week, rather than 5 mins fuelling each time (even allowing for a couple of public chargers).

Out of the last 100 times filling up so to speak, 98 have probably been electric being most efficient.

My electric car is quicker than a comparable ICE and ignoring all other arguments like cost and environment, would not go back to ICE.

Obviously its different for those that cant charge at home
 
cambsno said:
Obviously its different for those that cant charge at home
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Indeed it is, because they have to pay the higher prices and a share of taxes, which has always been my main gripe.

If electric cars were on a level playing field and going head to head with internal combustion engined cars, I wouldn't really care but the artificial difference in cost has a rather nastier scent attached than that of petrol.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Indeed it is, because they have to pay the higher prices and a share of taxes, which has always been my main gripe.

If electric cars were on a level playing field and going head to head with internal combustion engined cars, I wouldn't really care but the artificial difference in cost has a rather nastier scent attached than that of petrol.
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Only for those that cannot accept, or don't understand, that as we continue with the kind of lifestyles we have, fossil fuels will run out and change will have to be made. Therefore it is sensible to plan and change.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Indeed it is, because they have to pay the higher prices and a share of taxes, which has always been my main gripe.

If electric cars were on a level playing field and going head to head with internal combustion engined cars, I wouldn't really care but the artificial difference in cost has a rather nastier scent attached than that of petrol.
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But other cars are not equal - petrol v diesel, small 1l Corsa v a 3l Mercedes... they all pay different rates of car tax and the amount of fuel duty they pay (assuming they do the same mileage).

I remember having a diesel Mondeo which was better for tax than a petrol version (company car).

Why then should someone driving a 1l Corsa pay less VED than a 3l Mercedes?
 
Pound Coin said:
Only for those that cannot accept, or don't understand, that as we continue with the kind of lifestyles we have, fossil fuels will run out and change will have to be made. Therefore it is sensible to plan and change.
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Am sure there were still people hanging onto candles when electric lighting came in!!
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Indeed it is, because they have to pay the higher prices and a share of taxes, which has always been my main gripe.

If electric cars were on a level playing field and going head to head with internal combustion engined cars, I wouldn't really care but the artificial difference in cost has a rather nastier scent attached than that of petrol.
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I pay £35 a year for ICE. That's a level playing field with EVs, which pay, I believe, £195? :D
 
cambsno said:
Am sure there were still people hanging onto candles when electric lighting came in!!
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There certainly were. But maybe it was because the infrastructure wasn't in place for them to be on the mains. Similar really to some peoples accessibility to EV charging at home now.

Or maybe they had gas and that suited their needs at the time, Just as some people find that an ICE car suites their needs, so why change.

Even now there are still some properties that aren't on the mains.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/164160242#/?channel=RES_BUY
 
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munch said:
There certainly were. But maybe it was because the infrastructure wasn't in place for them to be on the mains. Similar really to some peoples accessibility to EV charging at home now.

Or maybe they had gas and that suited their needs at the time, Just as some people find that an ICE car suites their needs, so why change.

Even now there are still some properties that aren't on the mains.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/164160242#/?channel=RES_BUY
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I have no issue with those that are pro EV for genuine reasons like they live on a 10th floor flat and do 200 miles a day, or they need to go off-road (farming) etc... Its those that still claim they will burst into flames or that range is rubbish (when for the average person its more than fine).

They also probably said that electric lights would be great, but cant have it as no mains. They were unlikely to be saying candles were better, what happens if there is a power cut or clinging onto old tech for the sake of it
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Indeed it is, because they have to pay the higher prices and a share of taxes, which has always been my main gripe.

If electric cars were on a level playing field and going head to head with internal combustion engined cars, I wouldn't really care but the artificial difference in cost has a rather nastier scent attached than that of petrol.
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Where is the artificial difference in cost?
 
Work car is in for a service and I'm driving a petrol (spits) Juke for a couple of days, can anybody remind me how you use a petrol pump?

Plus, ye gods but this car is crap (
 
cambsno said:
I have no issue with those that are pro EV for genuine reasons like they live on a 10th floor flat and do 200 miles a day, or they need to go off-road (farming) etc... Its those that still claim they will burst into flames or that range is rubbish (when for the average person its more than fine).

They also probably said that electric lights would be great, but cant have it as no mains. They were unlikely to be saying candles were better, what happens if there is a power cut or clinging onto old tech for the sake of it
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Guy walking past me at a charger today commented "it's all a big con isn't it?" I said, "aye, your great great grandfather said the same thing when petrol cars first replaced his horse."
 
Steep said:
Work car is in for a service and I'm driving a petrol (spits) Juke for a couple of days, can anybody remind me how you use a petrol pump?

Plus, ye gods but this car is crap (
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My commiserations. ;)

And yes. Yes it is.
 
Steep said:
Guy walking past me at a charger today commented "it's all a big con isn't it?" I said, "aye, your great great grandfather said the same thing when petrol cars first replaced his horse."
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My mother used to take great pride in telling people, after we did away with our coal fires, that we are all electric now, and that was the 70s.
But my farther, did say well that's great but one day we will all be be back to the horse and cart.
We have to remember that the ICE has not been around that long in the grand scheme of things.
We have tech now to facilitate our ways, but no matter what we do, finding the resources will be the long term problem.
Resources are exactly that, not an endless resource, just a resource.
In saying that, if push came to shove, we would never run out of horses.
 
Oldbones said:
My mother used to take great pride in telling people, after we did away with our coal fires, that we are all electric now, and that was the 70s.
But my farther, did say well that's great but one day we will all be be back to the horse and cart.
We have to remember that the ICE has not been around that long in the grand scheme of things.
We have tech now to facilitate our ways, but no matter what we do, finding the resources will be the long term problem.
Resources are exactly that, not an endless resource, just a resource.
In saying that, if push came to shove, we would never run out of horses.
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Aye, no doubt but we're in no danger of running out of the elements to make batteries for a very very very long time.
 
Oldbones said:
My mother used to take great pride in telling people, after we did away with our coal fires, that we are all electric now, and that was the 70s.
But my farther, did say well that's great but one day we will all be be back to the horse and cart.
We have to remember that the ICE has not been around that long in the grand scheme of things.
We have tech now to facilitate our ways, but no matter what we do, finding the resources will be the long term problem.
Resources are exactly that, not an endless resource, just a resource.
In saying that, if push came to shove, we would never run out of horses.
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Horses should be fine. I think it's only cows (and chickens) they want to stop us from having......
 
LeeRatters said:
Horses should be fine. I think it's only cows (and chickens) they want to stop us from having......
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You’ve never tried horse meat?

(Just to be clear, if I have eaten horsemeat, it has been unwittingly.)
 
It's delicious - by far the best use of horses at this point in time.

Let's go back to horses as personal transport and haulage but I'm not sure how to get the tons of their "exhaust" products out of our overpopulated towns and cities.
 
There are at least two old boys local to me who haven't been able to renew their car driving licences, so they use a pony and trap instead.
They can go at a fair lick too.
The exhaust is used to help produce bumper crops of vegetables.
 
There used to be 3 cars in my street in the 60s now there are 27 cars and only 30 houses in the street.
Looks like I will have to get a bicycle or walk eventually.
And I know its the same the world over.
 
Steep said:
Work car is in for a service and I'm driving a petrol (spits) Juke for a couple of days, can anybody remind me how you use a petrol pump?

Plus, ye gods but this car is crap (
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The Nissan Joke Juke is my nemesis on the road. Always, always, always in the way. I won't rip into what else I think of it out of courtesy to any members here who may have one.
 
gman said:
The Nissan Joke Juke is my nemesis on the road. Always, always, always in the way. I won't rip into what else I think of it out of courtesy to any members here who may have one.
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Nah, Honda Jazz!
 
Followed a Jazz doing 30 in the outside lane of a dual carriageway for about a mile and a half. Not an uncommon experience along that stretch of road since one end eventually becomes a 2 lane split. If drivers aren't competent/confident enough to keep up to a reasonable speed, maybe they should reconsider their driving choice.
 
Well, I've just joined the EV clan, interested to see how this goes. Range is similar to an Impreza Turbo I had in the late 90s, but I have been used to 500+ mile range in more recent vehicles, so definitely might have to do some planning. I did once put 3 tanks of fuel in the Impreza in one day, but that might have had something to do with my right foot and a day at Cadwell Park!!

We are fortunate to have a second car (with a 480+ mile range) so I do have options.

Main reasons for change, increasing daily running costs (and bigger servicing costs in the future) on our Volvo XC60, so I'm looking forward to less monthly outlay. The current vehicle deals and the lure of 0% finance helped swing the deal.

Charger being fitted on Friday, lots of maths going on at the moment in sorting the best electricity deal.............
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Well, I've just joined the EV clan, interested to see how this goes. Range is similar to an Impreza Turbo I had in the late 90s, but I have been used to 500+ mile range in more recent vehicles, so definitely might have to do some planning. I did once put 3 tanks of fuel in the Impreza in one day, but that might have had something to do with my right foot and a day at Cadwell Park!!

We are fortunate to have a second car (with a 480+ mile range) so I do have options.

Main reasons for change, increasing daily running costs (and bigger servicing costs in the future) on our Volvo XC60, so I'm looking forward to less monthly outlay. The current vehicle deals and the lure of 0% finance helped swing the deal.

Charger being fitted on Friday, lots of maths going on at the moment in sorting the best electricity deal.............
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What did you go for in the end? I've had a quick flick back and you've mentioned the R5 and a Skoda.
 
Nod said:
What did you go for in the end? I've had a quick flick back and you've mentioned the R5 and a Skoda.
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Volvo EX30 Plus - Single Motor Extended Range, no options as any option takes you into higher rate (£40K+ VED) - Am arranging for the rear windows to have a security tint to the same level as Volvo provide, if I'd selected this option from Volvo it would cost £2,500 taking higher rate VED into account!!!!

The R5 E-Tech was really nice but too close in size to our existing Yaris for our requirements. I if we go all electric in the future it will certainly be on the shopping list
 
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Mr Perceptive said:
Well, I've just joined the EV clan, interested to see how this goes. Range is similar to an Impreza Turbo I had in the late 90s, but I have been used to 500+ mile range in more recent vehicles, so definitely might have to do some planning. I did once put 3 tanks of fuel in the Impreza in one day, but that might have had something to do with my right foot and a day at Cadwell Park!!

We are fortunate to have a second car (with a 480+ mile range) so I do have options.

Main reasons for change, increasing daily running costs (and bigger servicing costs in the future) on our Volvo XC60, so I'm looking forward to less monthly outlay. The current vehicle deals and the lure of 0% finance helped swing the deal.

Charger being fitted on Friday, lots of maths going on at the moment in sorting the best electricity deal.............
Click to expand...
Unless your car is usually away from home between 11pm and 5:30am, the answer is almost certainly Octopus.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Unless your car is usually away from home between 11pm and 5:30am, the answer is almost certainly Octopus.
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Well putting in my annual usage figures - real world and expected car kW, EON are £150 a year cheaper, and EDF are nearly £200 cheaper

I think its skewed by the fact that I run a business from home so our 'normal' electricity is probably above average, and the Octopus 'normal' rate is higher than EDF, EON and OVO

It does depend on car usage though as the more miles I drive electrically, Octopus becomes better value than EDF and OVO

Currently thinking EON might be the best initial option for us and review annually.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Well putting in my annual usage figures - real world and expected car kW, EON are £150 a year cheaper, and EDF are nearly £200 cheaper

I think its skewed by the fact that I run a business from home so our 'normal' electricity is probably above average, and the Octopus 'normal' rate is higher than EDF, EON and OVO

It does depend on car usage though as the more miles I drive electrically, Octopus becomes better value than EDF and OVO

Currently thinking EON might be the best initial option for us and review annually.
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You do know that all the time you are charging your EV on the intelligent Octopus go tariff yor whole house tariff is at the cheaper rate ( 7p ) and when configure your charge schedule through octopus to control the charger charging can take place at any time of the day or night and quite typically can start from 7pm onwards not just at the off peak tariff time ( 11:30pm - 5:30am )

the end result can make quite a difference to the electricity as a whole

typical times for off peak charging controlled by octopus can be 10am - 12 noon , 2pm - 4pm , 7pm - 6am

overall octopus are the cheapest i can find when it comes to home charging EV's
 
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