Why are people buying electric cars?

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lindsay said:
and getting a small electric runabout as well, which will keep the VED low and reduce the capital outlay. We'll see what the options are financially and practically.
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If you are interested in buying new and what a fun vehicle, then I was very impressed with the Renault 5 E-Tech - its really cool and loads of really nice retro touchs, a decent dashboard with proper switches for controlling things. It drives nicely too, feels very planted and is quite brisk in acceleration below 50mph, a good urban choice, and one that I think will have better residuals then many blandmobilees.
 
lindsay said:
I didn't know the Chinese had bought Volvo. I guess the cars are still built in Europe though. I had no idea of the origin of Polestar. All these new manufacturers makes me suspicious! That Jaecoo looks interesting but suspiciously cheap for the suggested trim level.
Mrs says anything that isn't British or Chinese please!
I'm now toying with keeping my Mazda 6 estate and getting a small electric runabout as well, which will keep the VED low and reduce the capital outlay. We'll see what the options are financially and practically.
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The Polestar 2 is extremely good value used, but it seems the reason is heavy handling and poor suspension. If we lived in a town with smooth roads then I'd possibly have one now, but not in the countryside.

I often see the RR-alike Jaecoo vehicles:just another vast, boxy Chinese SUV. Interesting to hear they may be good value, assuming all else works well.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
If you are interested in buying new and what a fun vehicle, then I was very impressed with the Renault 5 E-Tech - its really cool and loads of really nice retro touchs, a decent dashboard with proper switches for controlling things. It drives nicely too, feels very planted and is quite brisk in acceleration below 50mph, a good urban choice, and one that I think will have better residuals then many blandmobilees.
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Might enquire about the possibility of an ex-demo in a year or so.
 
Nod said:
Might enquire about the possibility of an ex-demo in a year or so.
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The way it seems to go in France and possibly the UK too is that the car companies discount heavily on new vehicles when they have been superceded by models with new technology or bigger batteries. What are termed "10 kilometre" cars, new unregistered evs are listed cheaper than low kilometrage used models. It catches dealers out so they are reluctant to register demo vehicles once a new model has been on the market for any length of time.
 
It's all down to being in the right place at the right time. Demo cars here tend to be highly specced versions and IF you can be in the right place, it's possible to snag a bargain. That is quite a big IF though!!!
 
Nod said:
It's all down to being in the right place at the right time. Demo cars here tend to be highly specced versions and IF you can be in the right place, it's possible to snag a bargain. That is quite a big IF though!!!
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Keep an eye on sites like Carwow as well, good bargains to be had.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Apparently Oxfordshire doesn't count as rural - lots of us locals walking on country roads here and there's no bullying at all. If you have supporting data for your comment then please provide it.



I grew up in London - busses drove around the streets at normal traffic speeds, and they still do around the roads of Oxfordshire, in Oxford itself and Bicester, including where there are peds.
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I didn't reply to this as it's well off-topic, but there is data out there to show the modal changes from walking and cycling to driving. And anyone who walked and cycled roads in the 70's, 80's would testify that it is an entirely different prospect now. Cars are faster, far more plentiful, and significantly bigger. All of which make being outside a car far less pleasant.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The Polestar 2 is extremely good value used, but it seems the reason is heavy handling and poor suspension. If we lived in a town with smooth roads then I'd possibly have one now, but not in the countryside.
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I looked at leasing about a year ago and tusker were practically giving ps2s away.

I had an extended test drive in one - Google integration is awesome. Everything else felt like a Cortina - it was fine and would do. But comparing it to my 7 year old Tesla it was very dated. Didn't drive it hard enough to find out I hated the handling at least partly because by comparison it felt very sluggish.
 
Steep said:
Keep an eye on sites like Carwow as well, good bargains to be had.
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I always buy cars that I can inspect (as) properly (as I can!) before parting with any cash and much prefer local cars to those from the South East.
 
Nod said:
I always buy cars that I can inspect (as) properly (as I can!) before parting with any cash and much prefer local cars to those from the South East.
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You can filters results to only show cars that are close to you, only makes you are interested in etc.
 
Had a Quick Look at the JCoo when on display at a sports game, not my idea of style, too big for my need and from that far east country, I’ll pass, come back in 5 years when the are proven quantity.
 
I MOT cars at a dealership, we have been informed that lift jacks we use are now not rated as being adequate.
They are rated to lift 1500Lbs,
When they require replacement they will have to be upgraded and rated to lift 2000Kgs.
If a new testing station is created they will have to have the ones rated for 2000Kgs.
The reason being is the weight of electric cars are becoming too much for the jacks we use now, and have been using for decades.
This is a nation wide instruction from the DVLA / VOSA.
I have noticed that there is quite a difference in the effort required to jack these things up.
The bigger ones especially so,
Which in the future will perhaps move some of these cars from class 4 to class 7 status.
Heavy cars use more brakes and tires depending on how they are driven, so does every car but the more weight the more it shows.
 
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NorthEastCamera said:
That is happening in China. Instead of changing your car there are places where you can drive into and onto a track and the car is taken on a movable platform and the battery is changed. Apparently a 15 min process.
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This I have heard about, apparently small simple cars, but they have far out paced us for infrastructure
Why can we not do that, are we too small scale ?.
 
Oldbones said:
This I have heard about, apparently small simple cars, but they have far out paced us for infrastructure
Why can we not do that, are we too small scale ?.
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It's happening in Europe on a small scale as well but as said earlier in this thread, it's not cost effective for the dealer/manufacturer to build battery swap sites across the country and stock them with batteries. More so if you expect a range of different makes and models to be catered for. The battery is the single most expensive thing in an EV, costing thousands of pounds, nobody wants to spend that much cash on the offchance someone who drives battery swapable will happen by. Nio are currently about the only car on the market here that can do swapping, it can also charge normally which is of course what everyone will do.
 
Oldbones said:
This I have heard about, apparently small simple cars, but they have far out paced us for infrastructure
Why can we not do that, are we too small scale ?.
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At least on this forum, the pro-EV group have appeared to be vehemently against anything that does not involve plugging in and charging an electric vehicle with a fixed battery. A number of us have suggested that a standardised battery that could be quickly demounted and a recharged version remounted would be a much better alternative than having to wait for charging, but this is always poo-pooed.

At least charging speeds are becoming more practical now for those needing to travel long distances who might wish to buy EVs in the future.
 
Nod said:
And ban mobile phone use for pedestrians while walking - particularly crossing roads.
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Some electric cars do have that style of braking, but not too shure about what speed it works at, I know in the work shop at very low speed they do slam on the brakes all by themselves
 
Oldbones said:
I MOT cars at a dealership, we have been informed that lift jacks we use are now not rated as being adequate.
They are rated to lift 1500Lbs,
When they require replacement they will have to be upgraded and rated to lift 2000Lbs.
If a new testing station is created they will have to have the ones rated for 2000Lbs.
The reason being is the weight of electric cars are becoming too much for the jacks we use now, and have been using for decades.
This is a nation wide instruction from the DVLA / VOSA.
I have noticed that there is quite a difference in the effort required to jack these things up.
The bigger ones especially so,
Which in the future will perhaps move some of these cars from class 4 to class 7 status.
Heavy cars use more brakes and tires depending on how they are driven, so does every car but the more weight the more it shows.
Click to expand...

I think the kerb weight of my car is about 1750kg. Batteries are going to get smaller but EVs will always be heavier I think.
 
ancient_mariner said:
At least on this forum, the pro-EV group have appeared to be vehemently against anything that does not involve plugging in and charging an electric vehicle with a fixed battery. A number of us have suggested that a standardised battery that could be quickly demounted and a recharged version remounted would be a much better alternative than having to wait for charging, but this is always poo-pooed.

At least charging speeds are becoming more practical now for those needing to travel long distances who might wish to buy EVs in the future.
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See my post https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/why-are-people-buying-electric-cars.753645/post-9659564 for very good reasons for this.
 
One awkward aspect of what I assume to be regenerative braking is the manner in which the brake lights flick on and off frequently when a driver is feathering the throttle to adjust speed in a stream of traffic. I'm sure it's a software setting that needs adjustment, but combined with super-bright LED brake lights, it can make for an extremely uncomfortable experience driving behind such a vehicle.

Steep said:
See my post https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/why-are-people-buying-electric-cars.753645/post-9659564 for very good reasons for this.
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I've read multiple sets of 'good' reasons, but legislation that required car makers to standardise on a battery fitment and type would have completely changed to way this operated. Like requiring iPhones to use USBC, it could have revolutionised EV chanrging, and particularly accessibility for those without off-street parking.
 
My point is it's just not commercially viable. To try and make the case, there are some 780 odd models of EV around at the moment, each one has a battery that's £5000-£8000. So if they were all to be swappable that means each swapping centre would have to carry over £4 million in stock just to have one battery that fitted each model (I assumed some models would use the same battery across the range as MG cars do)
That's not the end of it, the swapping centre would have to recharge each battery as it comes in and that would be an awful lot of electricity, at the very least they would have to get the DNO to uprate the power supply to cope with the demand. Which in turn means either picking a site with enough capacity or paying through the nose to get it upgraded.
(An example of DNO cost - A ski centre I go to wants to replace their aging chair lift but to do this they have to get the DNO to upgrade the supply, they have been quoted well in excess of a million pounds to get it done.) Then add the cost of buying or leasing the site, converting it or building it to suit with charging solutions for each type of battery and bms.

But, just one battery swap site isn't going to do any good, there would need to be multiple sites in every town, more in cities (76 cities in the UK). Remember nobody is going to want to drive 20 (random figure) miles to swap a battery and 20 miles back again when they could charge for less at home.

All this is solvable, it could be done, but it's just not commercially viable. No business is going to outlay millions of pounds per site to set this up not knowing if the demand will be enough or if they're going to get undercut.
 
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Oldbones said:
I MOT cars at a dealership, we have been informed that lift jacks we use are now not rated as being adequate.
They are rated to lift 1500Lbs,
When they require replacement they will have to be upgraded and rated to lift 2000Lbs.
If a new testing station is created they will have to have the ones rated for 2000Lbs.
The reason being is the weight of electric cars are becoming too much for the jacks we use now, and have been using for decades.
This is a nation wide instruction from the DVLA / VOSA.
I have noticed that there is quite a difference in the effort required to jack these things up.
The bigger ones especially so,
Which in the future will perhaps move some of these cars from class 4 to class 7 status.
Heavy cars use more brakes and tires depending on how they are driven, so does every car but the more weight the more it shows.
Click to expand...

A Fiat 500 is around 2000lbs... My Diesel car is over 2000kg.
 
Steep said:
All this is solvable, it could be done, but it's just not commercially viable. No business is going to outlay millions of pounds per site to set this up not knowing if the demand will be enough or if they're going to get undercut.
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I think you're correct.

What's more, I think this sums up the whole electrification thing. A few fanatical enthusiasts have persuaded the idiot politicians to sign up to the wrong fix for the wrong problem. Worse still, vast amounts are being spent on creating infrastructure which may well be out of date in a decade or two. In the meantime, sensible and easily implemented alternatives are being ignored by politicians who are now forced to support the Electric lobby, in an attempt to hide the mess from the voters.
 
Nod said:
A Fiat 500 is around 2000lbs... My Diesel car is over 2000kg.
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Is that an EV Fiat 500 ? And the jacks I mentioned, only have to raise the rear end or the front end of the car while its on a four post ramp, not the entire car.
So I am starting to think that some of the EV drive trains and battery's are now weighing more than a ICE engine and drive train.
I will have to check the next time I do some MOTs and compare.
 
Steep said:
All this is solvable, it could be done, but it's just not commercially viable. No business is going to outlay millions of pounds per site to set this up not knowing if the demand will be enough or if they're going to get undercut.
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Like I said, if there had been a requirement for a standardised battery format then that immediately removes a major hurdle. In addition the car makers themselves might run (or operate franchises) the stations providing the service. It was all entirely do-able, but required rules, planning and forced cooperation early on. Nobody was interested, hances the anarchistic chaos we now see. It's great that faster charging and increased capacity have proved possible, but that wasn't guaranteed.
 
Oldbones said:
Is that an EV Fiat 500 ? And the jacks I mentioned, only have to raise the rear end or the front end of the car while its on a four post ramp, not the entire car.
So I am starting to think that some of the EV drive trains and battery's are now weighing more than a ICE engine and drive train.
I will have to check the next time I do some MOTs and compare.
Click to expand...

Mrs Nod's not small EV weighs around the same as my Diesel car.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Like I said, if there had been a requirement for a standardised battery format then that immediately removes a major hurdle. In addition the car makers themselves might run (or operate franchises) the stations providing the service. It was all entirely do-able, but required rules, planning and forced cooperation early on. Nobody was interested, hances the anarchistic chaos we now see. It's great that faster charging and increased capacity have proved possible, but that wasn't guaranteed.
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The videos I have watched on you tube tonight are for one brand of Chinese car.
They drive into the the station and its all done automatically and very fast.
So it looks its for one brand or one model of car, so that's very limiting in our country.
The cars I work on, the EVs have an eight year 100,000 mile warranty, but a certain level of battery degradation is factored in due to use and age.
So when it gets to eight years old it might only have 50% of its original power and range but is still deemed as adequate.
I don't think that would be snapped up if it were to go on sale at that age, looks like the Chinese way would be a better deal.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Like I said, if there had been a requirement for a standardised battery format then that immediately removes a major hurdle. In addition the car makers themselves might run (or operate franchises) the stations providing the service. It was all entirely do-able, but required rules, planning and forced cooperation early on. Nobody was interested, hances the anarchistic chaos we now see. It's great that faster charging and increased capacity have proved possible, but that wasn't guaranteed.
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I get that but car manufacturers are not known for their cooperating ways. Even the Stellantis cars all have proprietary software and systems.
 
Oldbones said:
The videos I have watched on you tube tonight are for one brand of Chinese car.
They drive into the the station and its all done automatically and very fast.
So it looks its for one brand or one model of car, so that's very limiting in our country.
The cars I work on, the EVs have an eight year 100,000 mile warranty, but a certain level of battery degradation is factored in due to use and age.
So when it gets to eight years old it might only have 50% of its original power and range but is still deemed as adequate.
I don't think that would be snapped up if it were to go on sale at that age, looks like the Chinese way would be a better deal.
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It's probably NIO, they are the only brand in the UK and Europe to have battery swappable cars. Except for some specially adapted Fiat 500s apparently. The only swap sites in Europe are NIO, there are 60 in total.
 
Steep said:
It's probably NIO, they are the only brand in the UK and Europe to have battery swappable cars. Except for some specially adapted Fiat 500s apparently. The only swap sites in Europe are NIO, there are 60 in total.
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Yes it was NIO
 
ancient_mariner said:
. Like requiring iPhones to use USBC, it could have revolutionised EV chanrging, and particularly accessibility for those without off-street parking.
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How many iPhones have swappable batteries.

And why.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
One awkward aspect of what I assume to be regenerative braking is the manner in which the brake lights flick on and off frequently when a driver is feathering the throttle to adjust speed in a stream of traffic. I'm sure it's a software setting that needs adjustment, but combined with super-bright LED brake lights, it can make for an extremely uncomfortable experience driving behind such a vehicle.



I've read multiple sets of 'good' reasons, but legislation that required car makers to standardise on a battery fitment and type would have completely changed to way this operated. Like requiring iPhones to use USBC, it could have revolutionised EV chanrging, and particularly accessibility for those without off-street parking.
Click to expand...

There must be a fairly large market right there (bold) that are perhaps largely being missed. I'm sure I've put quite a few posts in here about battery swapping and how it's growing in China and whilst I appreciate the differences with China and the UK, it still demonstrates that it is perfectly achievable.

Unlike many other devices that we charge regularly, their smaller size makes their charging accessible by everyone in any home and almost any location, espeically with powerbanks being so portable as well. A car's size, however, makes it restrictive to a lot of people as you have already suggested.


Found some of the past posts:

 
Pound Coin said:
How many iPhones have swappable batteries.

And why.
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They all do, depending on skill level and committment of the operator. But the question is spurious because it avoids the obvious difference in use case.
 
ancient_mariner said:
They all do, depending on skill level and committment of the operator. But the question is spurious because it avoids the obvious difference in use case.
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The point is that swappable batteries require a structure for them and for the device or vehicle they are going in. This impacts on battery size, item weight, and ultimately, power capacity. Batteries that are not swappable can also be distributed around the ‘chassis’ rather than having to be in a standard, rectangular form.
 
Oldbones said:
Is that an EV Fiat 500 ? And the jacks I mentioned, only have to raise the rear end or the front end of the car while its on a four post ramp, not the entire car.
So I am starting to think that some of the EV drive trains and battery's are now weighing more than a ICE engine and drive train.
I will have to check the next time I do some MOTs and compare.
Click to expand...
Maybe better explaining you talking about what we called lifting beams on ramps?
 
For battery change sites to work many vehicles would need a redesign, Ive seen batteries under boot floors etc, this is not like sliding a battery out a compact camera.
 
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