Why are people buying electric cars?

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I have a few little solar panels that keep the bike batteries "conditioned" when they're not getting used. Even over the winter, the panels keep them topped up.
 
Steep said:
Yes but guess what give it a year and it won't be.
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So I am past and current and you are talking about the future.
 
Clive K said:
So I am past and current and you are talking about the future.
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The very near future, that's the trouble with trying to tie down the EV revolution, it changes and evolves so fast by the time you have formed an opinion the landscape is completely different. I couldn't really say how much diesel the mining industry uses and I doubt you could either, my point is regardless of whether you think you've made a winning point, in the grand scheme it's a peanuts amount no matter how much it is.

Even if Lithium was to continue as a main ingredient in EV batteries the way it's collected is changing, companies are heading towards filtration from sea water and away from mining.
 
Clive K said:
Digging the lithium will use quite a lot of diesel children.
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:D


I think silicon is being explored as an alternative. Presumably, it would be prudent to ensure materials needed for future EV batteries (or the refined materials) will be obtainable from more widespread sources.
 
One of the problems that I have is that buying an EV is buying on a promise rather than on past performance. We will be buying a newish car this month. It will be petrol because we know what to expect and it is a long term purchase. Probably for ten years or more. We have had the Skoda Octavia for 13 years and it still performs like it did when we bought it. All this EVs are getting better, battery life is getting longer stuff doesn't interest us. Let us know when it is sorted, not work in progress. We are not guinea pigs.
 
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I'm seeing Tesla model s changing hands for 15k. That's both terrifying (I paid a lot more) and amazing. If you have extremely large off street parking then it's a steal.
 
See Clive that's perfectly fine, nobody is asking you to be a guinea pig, buy your petrol car today and be happy. I disagree that EVs have no past performance for you to measure against though. The subject of this thread is why people are buying EVs and there's plenty of good reasons why but you don't have to accept them. Somewhere down to road you will and when you do go electric you'll be happy with that decision.
 
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I'm not so sure. At present there are very few examples of EVs that are 10 years old and still doing what they promised. The car trade is based on having a healthy used car market. There isn't the confidence in EVs down the line. People who typically buy 5 year old cars and older don't trust the EV's range or promised battery life. A lot of European ICE vehicles end up in central and eastern Europe. They want diesel, not electric. If the Germans, French, etc can't shift the older EVs the market will stagnate. To some extent it is happening now. The price of 1 and 2 year old ICE vehicles is ridiculously high. Wifey wants a Polo or similar. She can safely buy a nearly new petrol Polo and be sure that it will last 10 years or more. No electric car can promise that at the moment.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I'm seeing Tesla model s changing hands for 15k. That's both terrifying (I paid a lot more) and amazing. If you have extremely large off street parking then it's a steal.
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They're even cheaper than that for higher mileage ones. Jonny from the Late Brake Show has a Model S for sub £10k. Free supercharging for life on it too so taking money out of Musk's pocket.

There's a lot of fuss about older EVs but my 11 year old Model S is fine. Works just as it should. It's easy to check battery health if you want. Second car is now an i3. That's 5 with over 70k on it so that was cheaper than some awful little petrol supermarket trolley car to buy. Likely to be a lot more reliable too. Every other year servicing and it's a cabin filter and brake fluid change and that's about it for replacement of anything.

Lots of older EVs are out there. There's some like the Zoe you wouldn't have long term as they're too unreliable but the MG5 thrives on being thrashed and there's lots of high mileage ones of those. Anything Taxi drivers buy in droves are likely to be cheap to run and reliable. They absolutely hammer them.

Leafs you'd also avoid as they do have battery problems and let the side down generally.

I'd trust a 5 year old EV to last 10 years more than I'd trust a modern petrol or diesel with wet belts, EGRs and all sorts of bothersome crap on them.
 
Clive K said:
I'm not so sure. At present there are very few examples of EVs that are 10 years old and still doing what they promised. The car trade is based on having a healthy used car market. There isn't the confidence in EVs down the line. People who typically buy 5 year old cars and older don't trust the EV's range or promised battery life. A lot of European ICE vehicles end up in central and eastern Europe. They want diesel, not electric. If the Germans, French, etc can't shift the older EVs the market will stagnate. To some extent it is happening now. The price of 1 and 2 year old ICE vehicles is ridiculously high. Wifey wants a Polo or similar. She can safely buy a nearly new petrol Polo and be sure that it will last 10 years or more. No electric car can promise that at the moment.
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ok, as a test, how many miles are on your old Skoda now?
 
Clive K said:
One of the problems that I have is that buying an EV is buying on a promise rather than on past performance. We will be buying a newish car this month. It will be petrol because we know what to expect and it is a long term purchase. Probably for ten years or more. We have had the Skoda Octavia for 13 years and it still performs like it did when we bought it. All this EVs are getting better, battery life is getting longer stuff doesn't interest us. Let us know when it is sorted, not work in progress. We are not guinea pigs.
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It is sorted!! It’s fine for most people (range)

Petrol engines are getting better all the time, more economy and better performance. They will always evolve and improve, just like battery life and range.
 
Clive K said:
Just under 200k miles. About the same on my CR-V.
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Cheers, I've done about 100k miles twice over in 4 years in my 2 EVs so I guess all 4 cars pretty much meet your performance criteria. Only ever changed tyres and once on each the reduction gearbox oil. Brakes on both in good nick and never changed a pad, the ev battery on my first one was at 93% state of health at 100k. Meaning it's still good for 93% of the range it had when new so battery life is far better than some would have us believe (this is not an isolated example).
 
Oxford from Sportsbikeshop. ;)
 
moggi1964 said:
I'll be getting one for my shed to keep the motorbike battery on trickle.
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I've done just that, solar panel on the roof of the shed, mainly used to charge up the Anker powerbank but I'm looking at putting my eBike onto it as well.
 
I was recently in the lucky position to be able to afford to replace our 7 year old ICE car. I did honestly consider going for an electric car as a replacement but a few things have put me off. Couple of instances:

My stepson has recently got a great lease deal through work on a brand new Skoda Enyak and he was delighted with it at first. However he’s told me that on a family holiday trip down to Devon it took him ages to find a charging point that worked or didn’t have a big waiting line. He’s normally a very laid back character but he said he was getting really sweaty that day about running out of charge. He’s also gone over to Guernsey in the car recently and said the charging network there is virtually nonexistent.
Secondly, they were due to come down to visit us a while back, so he’d put the car on charge overnight for the journey down. When he got in the car he realised it hadn’t charged because the home wall charger had gone offline (I hadn’t realised they were internet connected). So he reset it but then had to wait for the car to charge to a reasonable level before he could set off.

Maybe he just got unlucky but those sort of real life experiences don’t instil me with much confidence in owning an EV. I compromised eventually and bought a Lexus NX self charging hybrid. It’s currently returning 49.8 mpg on average. I’m more than happy with my choice.
 
boogie man said:
Maybe he just got unlucky but those sort of real life experiences don’t instil me with much confidence in owning an EV.
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That's a very good reason for not using a fully electrical vehicle: another is that I've yet to see a convincing equivalent to the one gallon petrol can.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That's a very good reason for not using a fully electrical vehicle: another is that I've yet to see a convincing equivalent to the one gallon petrol can.
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Well in over 30 years of driving ICE I never had a use for a petrol can!

And no, its not a good reason for not using EV - Remember the fuel crisis of 2000, things like that can happen too but hardly a reason to not use ICE.
 
boogie man said:
I was recently in the lucky position to be able to afford to replace our 7 year old ICE car. I did honestly consider going for an electric car as a replacement but a few things have put me off. Couple of instances:

My stepson has recently got a great lease deal through work on a brand new Skoda Enyak and he was delighted with it at first. However he’s told me that on a family holiday trip down to Devon it took him ages to find a charging point that worked or didn’t have a big waiting line. He’s normally a very laid back character but he said he was getting really sweaty that day about running out of charge. He’s also gone over to Guernsey in the car recently and said the charging network there is virtually nonexistent.
Secondly, they were due to come down to visit us a while back, so he’d put the car on charge overnight for the journey down. When he got in the car he realised it hadn’t charged because the home wall charger had gone offline (I hadn’t realised they were internet connected). So he reset it but then had to wait for the car to charge to a reasonable level before he could set off.

Maybe he just got unlucky but those sort of real life experiences don’t instil me with much confidence in owning an EV. I compromised eventually and bought a Lexus NX self charging hybrid. It’s currently returning 49.8 mpg on average. I’m more than happy with my choice.
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Those are the kind of things that happen to new drivers, especially on long trips. There are ways round it but it takes a few minutes planning. Before setting off check Google for charging stations in the area you are going to and make a note of whose they are. Download the app for that supplier and it will tell you if a particular charger is in use or offline or a available when you want to use it.
Not sure what his issue with Guernsey was, it's only 10x5 km and there are sixteen charging sites, most with multiple chargers and at least one rapid.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That's a very good reason for not using a fully electrical vehicle: another is that I've yet to see a convincing equivalent to the one gallon petrol can.
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I've only used a petrol can for 2 things ever:

1. Helping an 80 year old car mostly made of biscuit tins that broke down outside my house on the way home from a rally
2. Filling my lawnmower. I now have a battery lawnmower which I charge from my solar.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I've only used a petrol can for 2 things ever:

1. Helping an 80 year old car mostly made of biscuit tins that broke down outside my house on the way home from a rally
2. Filling my lawnmower. I now have a battery lawnmower which I charge from my solar.
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They're the sort of thing that's a waste of space, until suddenly it isn't! :wideyed:
 
My lawnmower is now a 36V cordless, a rather nice find in the sale and I have to admit, it does make mowing the grass easier than worrying about the stupid cable. Also handy for the front, no more extensions and with the mulcher I don't even have to worry about disposing of the clippings (access to the rear is through my house or a long walk around).

Other than the car, it's only the chainsaw that's petrol and I have a 5 litre container for that, along with a special mixing container. But the downside is that after 6-12 months the fuel can go bad. A cordless chainsaw was considered, but the cost to get the power and duration isn't ideal for me yet, even with the fancy battery Stihl one. But the vastly reduce noise factor of the battery chainsaw would be a big plus, that petrol one is neighbour hating loud.
 
andya700 said:
I have a 2005 Skoda Octavia, with 220K on the clock. We bought in 2012 for £3K. It takes 5 minutes to fill it with diesel, then it has a range of 550 - 600 miles. No current EV can better those statistics.
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What statistics?
 
cambsno said:
Well in over 30 years of driving ICE I never had a use for a petrol can!

And no, its not a good reason for not using EV - Remember the fuel crisis of 2000, things like that can happen too but hardly a reason to not use ICE.
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Just because you don't believe it is not a good reason to buy an EV, it is a reason why people don't buy EV's
 
andya700 said:
I have a 2005 Skoda Octavia, with 220K on the clock. We bought in 2012 for £3K. It takes 5 minutes to fill it with diesel, then it has a range of 550 - 600 miles. No current EV can better those statistics.
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My cars are 25, 15 and 10 years old and I'd trust all of them to get me anywhere in the country. I wonder how many EV's will be trustworthy after a decade or two of use.

Also, as I noted in this thread... anyone investing in a Chinese EV seriously needs to look at the incidents of the electronics playing up disastrously and also the tear downs on line. If the worst case scenarios are true for these cars I think there's a case for banning their import into the country let alone buying one,
 
woof woof said:
My cars are 25, 15 and 10 years old and I'd trust all of them to get me anywhere in the country. I wonder how many EV's will be trustworthy after a decade or two of use.

Also, as I noted in this thread... anyone investing in a Chinese EV seriously needs to look at the incidents of the electronics playing up disastrously and also the tear downs on line. If the worst case scenarios are true for these cars I think there's a case for banning their import into the country let alone buying one,
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And yet here you are on the internet.
 
woof woof said:
My cars are 25, 15 and 10 years old and I'd trust all of them to get me anywhere in the country. I wonder how many EV's will be trustworthy after a decade or two of use.

Also, as I noted in this thread... anyone investing in a Chinese EV seriously needs to look at the incidents of the electronics playing up disastrously and also the tear downs on line. If the worst case scenarios are true for these cars I think there's a case for banning their import into the country let alone buying one,
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Find a new car that doesn't have Chinese electronics in it regardless of fuel.
 
Steep said:
Find a new car that doesn't have Chinese electronics in it regardless of fuel.
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If you go and watch the easily available videos I've seen you'll know what I was referring to and why your comment misses the point and what the real issues are.
 
BillN_33 said:
MGS5 looks amazing value
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Watch the teardowns before you buy any Chinese EV and you might just see why they look good value, If you do watch them the next question you should ask yourself is "Would I put my loved ones in that car."
 
woof woof said:
If you go and watch the easily available videos I've seen you'll know what I was referring to and why your comment misses the point and what the real issues are.
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Not wishing to get into an argument but I suspect it's you who's missing the point, either China spies on you or Google does or Whitehall does. You cannot walk down the street in the UK but your picture is being taken. If either China, Google or MI6 wants to watch me talk to myself or fart in my car they are very welcome.
 
woof woof said:
Watch the teardowns before you buy any Chinese EV and you might just see why they look good value, If you do watch them the next question you should ask yourself is "Would I put my loved ones in that car."
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The MGS5 has a 5 star EuroNcap rating.

I really think you would do well to go start your own thread "conspiracy theory of the day" or something.
 
Steep said:
Not wishing to get into an argument but I suspect it's you who's missing the point, either China spies on you or Google does or Whitehall does. You cannot walk down the street in the UK but your picture is being taken. If either China, Google or MI6 wants to watch me talk to myself or fart in my car they are very welcome.
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Then you'll be coming around to my point that this tat should be banned from the UK.

If I can drag you back to Chinese EV's for a moment. If you'd consider having one then that's your decision and I suppose there is the possibility that cars bult for export to UK are bult to a higher standard than some others but going by the vids which are easily accessible I don't know if I'd put any faith in that.

Steep said:
The MGS5 has a 5 star EuroNcap rating.

I really think you would do well to go start your own thread "conspiracy theory of the day" or something.
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That'd be the conspiracy theories backed up by multiple reports from multiple sources in multiple countries and also raised by the CEO of one of the Chinese companies at least trying to produce a decent product.

But never mind all that. It's easily written off as conspiracy theories and doing so allows you to put your head in the sand or up any orifice you have and you can spend your money however you wish.

It's a long time since I was involved with compliance for Chinese companies but I'd be surprised if they've changed. Buying Chinese products which have been though foreign QC and compliance processes is a better bet and I would be more confident with a Tesla than certain Chinese brands even if it does have Chinese components.

It's up to you. Good luck with it and if a Chinese EV drives your family into a wall or burns your house down you can blame my conspiracy theories for causing bad karma.

I've raised this issue a couple of times now. I'd just urge anyone thinking of buying a Chinese car, not just EV, to look further than the shiny display on the dash and the attractive price. At least do some home work.
 
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