Why are people buying electric cars?

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Steep said:
As with everything there are/were good and bad. Even now the BMW i3 is a great car and can be had for little money, it's also possible to upgrade the battery cheaply to give it nearer modern day car range. I saw a video on YT about somebody (James Clevely from the video a few days ago) buying a 240k miles MG ZS ex taxi for I think £2.5k it needed a couple of hundred pounds worth of work done (guy is an EV service business owner), that's a good family car with decent if not huge range for less than £3k.

Early Zoes were terrible for tripping off chargers, they had 43kw ac chargers in them and it was just too much for a lot of chargers.
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The situation is enormously better for the potential EV buyer now. My Zoe-owning colleague said it was the worst built car he'd ever known (I woud agree) and his other car at the time was an Astra.

I'd personally wondered about a used Polestar, but reading reviews they mention poor suspension, which would be untenable where I live. I'm not in a hurry to change vehicle (fuel cost is around £100/month generally so relatively little to be saved) but would consider it if a good deal came along.
 
ancient_mariner said:
The situation is enormously better for the potential EV buyer now. My Zoe-owning colleague said it was the worst built car he'd ever known (I woud agree) and his other car at the time was an Astra.

I'd personally wondered about a used Polestar, but reading reviews they mention poor suspension, which would be untenable where I live. I'm not in a hurry to change vehicle (fuel cost is around £100/month generally so relatively little to be saved) but would consider it if a good deal came along.
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I'd say no to early polestars too, poor build quality, low range and high insurance rating.
 
Steep said:
I'd say no to early polestars too, poor build quality, low range and high insurance rating.
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I've read a variety of comments about them including better build quality than Teslas, but that might not be truly representative. Another colleague recently bought a 3YO Polestar and really quite liked it after his previous car (upper end Alfa) was stolen. Only complaint was FWD and the steering pull becoming almost unmanageable if you really gave it welly out of a corner. But thanks for the warning.
 
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The Polestar 3 is a huge improvement but it'll be a while before the 2nd hand price drops enough :)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Good point, but personally I would never buy a Citroen or, come to that, a Renault.

As I've said before, electric cars are the way forward (until a better technology comes along) and I might be tempted if it wasn't for limited range, cost of charging on the move, no home charging, low mileage, high insurance costs and my age. Any one of those would rule me out.
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all cars have advantages and disadvantages depending on how they are to be used and other circumstances

We are quite happy with a small EV because of the way we use it and with use in mind that's why we bought it ......... but we would never take it on a 1,500 mile trip to France in preference to our X1 but we now never take our X1 on a trip into Winchester or to the Supermarket.

If you want to drive long distances or live in a Tower Block maybe an EV is not for you and if so stop complaining ..........just as a 4 x 4 pick up is great for certain things as a 911 is.
 
BillN_33 said:
all cars have advantages and disadvantages depending on how they are to be used and other circumstances

We are quite happy with a small EV because of the way we use it and with use in mind that's why we bought it ......... but we would never take it on a 1,500 mile trip to France in preference to our X1 but we now never take our X1 on a trip into Winchester or to the Supermarket.

If you want to drive long distances or live in a Tower Block maybe an EV is not for you and if so stop complaining ..........just as a 4 x 4 pick up is great for certain things as a 911 is.
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It's not for everyone but there's a series of videos on YT, a family of 3 who take a Nissan eNV200 campervan to the South of Italy every year. That vehicle can do 120 miles on a good day. It's a testament to the charging infrastructure across Europe that they manage it easily.
 
ancient_mariner said:
But they were often not very good, like the Zoë a colleague had with a real range of about 50 miles and the build quality of a wet paper bag. Sure you could buy a Tesla, but they were still expensive.
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True, BUT how many journeys need more than a 50 mile range (Mrs Nod's Leaf was more like 70 miles IRL)? We wouldn't have had it as an only car but for nipping down to town, out to see her Mum, going to the beach, shopping and the like, it was ideal. Cheaper to go to town in it and park up for an hour or 2 than to get the bus, not to mention more convenient and reliable!
 
Nod said:
True, BUT how many journeys need more than a 50 mile range (Mrs Nod's Leaf was more like 70 miles IRL)? We wouldn't have had it as an only car but for nipping down to town, out to see her Mum, going to the beach, shopping and the like, it was ideal. Cheaper to go to town in it and park up for an hour or 2 than to get the bus, not to mention more convenient and reliable!
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Many journeys don't, but it's a very strong disincentive when you have a choice of 2 vehicles for choosing the one that can't cope with a sudden change of plan. Why is this point never understood by EV owners?

Fortunately we seem to be past the time of unreasonable ranges.
 
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PPPPPP!!!
 
It's worth adding that I have been in the Zoë I mentioned, on a short journey where plans did need to be changed half way through (it had not been possible to recharge the vehicle while it was parked at the station overnight) and the experienced owner was starting to get very concerned it only had an indicated 10 miles left and the estimated distance was not reliable. The issues of range were not hypothetical arguments put forward by anti-EV people but real-world problems causing significant stress and inconvenience.
 
ancient_mariner said:
It's worth adding that I have been in the Zoë I mentioned, on a short journey where plans did need to be changed half way through (it had not been possible to recharge the vehicle while it was parked at the station overnight) and the experienced owner was starting to get very concerned it only had an indicated 10 miles left and the estimated distance was not reliable. The issues of range were not hypothetical arguments put forward by anti-EV people but real-world problems causing significant stress and inconvenience.
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Range has improved a lot recently and no doubt will continue to do so; but, even if I had somewhere to plug one into I'd have to buy new or nearly new to get something suitable for my occasional long runs, which is where the economics would fail (for me).

If I was 20 years younger I'd look forward to getting one at some future point, but at my age it would be a very bad choice, and this seems to me to be something that a lot of the EV evangelists simply miss - we all have different needs and different situations.

There are plenty of parallels in other areas too, but (for example) the people who have the latest and best mirrorless cameras just accept that some people like to shoot on film, and music enthusiasts accept that some people like vinyl, so why do some people think that people who don't want an EV are naive neanderthals who can't or won't do the sums?
 
Garry Edwards said:
Range has improved a lot recently and no doubt will continue to do so; but, even if I had somewhere to plug one into I'd have to buy new or nearly new to get something suitable for my occasional long runs, which is where the economics would fail (for me).

If I was 20 years younger I'd look forward to getting one at some future point, but at my age it would be a very bad choice, and this seems to me to be something that a lot of the EV evangelists simply miss - we all have different needs and different situations.

There are plenty of parallels in other areas too, but (for example) the people who have the latest and best mirrorless cameras just accept that some people like to shoot on film, and music enthusiasts accept that some people like vinyl, so why do some people think that people who don't want an EV are naive neanderthals who can't or won't do the sums?
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When its people who put forward a rational argument, like they have a 10yr old car that is doing the job perfectly for them, or they need to tow a huge caravan, or do weekly long trips, go off road etc then I dont think anyone has an issue with that. The neanderthals are the ones that think they catch fire every 10 mins and who just say things like they will never get one, ranges are rubbish and make out that they are a pain. For the average motorist they are a good car and range is fine. Sure, not everyone has 20k to spend on a car, and if I was in the position I was 8 years ago I would be looking at a 12yo car too. But if you are looking to spend a realistic amount of money on a car, and dont travel to Cornwall every month, then discounting EVs because they are EVs is kind of silly
 
cambsno said:
When its people who put forward a rational argument, like they have a 10yr old car that is doing the job perfectly for them, or they need to tow a huge caravan, or do weekly long trips, go off road etc then I dont think anyone has an issue with that. The neanderthals are the ones that think they catch fire every 10 mins and who just say things like they will never get one, ranges are rubbish and make out that they are a pain. For the average motorist they are a good car and range is fine. Sure, not everyone has 20k to spend on a car, and if I was in the position I was 8 years ago I would be looking at a 12yo car too. But if you are looking to spend a realistic amount of money on a car, and dont travel to Cornwall every month, then discounting EVs because they are EVs is kind of silly
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Are you suggesting a Free market?

The reason why people say these things is because they are being forced into vehicles that are not suitable for them or they can't afford them and because zealots like you call us Neanderthals.
 
ecoleman said:
The reason why people say these things is because they are being forced into vehicles that are not suitable for them or they can't afford them and because zealots like you call us Neanderthals.
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You have got to the heart of the problem.

There is a place for electric cars but they are not and never can be a replacement for the internal combustion engined cars, at the present level of infrastructure and technology. Another key problem, as you say, are the zealots, who advocate cheating the non-users of electric cars and bribing as many people as possible into using the things, which it seems cannot compete on an open market.

Require the users of those things to pay fuel duty and vehicle excise duty at the appropriate levels (which would have to rise significantly to cover the cost of electrification) and my guess is that the market for the things would shrink considerably.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
You have got to the heart of the problem.

There is a place for electric cars but they are not and never can be a replacement for the internal combustion engined cars, at the present level of infrastructure and technology. Another key problem, as you say, are the zealots, who advocate cheating the non-users of electric cars and bribing as many people as possible into using the things, which it seems cannot compete on an open market.

Require the users of those things to pay fuel duty and vehicle excise duty at the appropriate levels (which would have to rise significantly to cover the cost of electrification) and my guess is that the market for the things would shrink considerably.
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Well, when oil runs out or is in short supply i dont see ICE being a valid option. And while it would not work if the country all went electric tomorrow, chargers are being rolled out every day
 
ecoleman said:
Are you suggesting a Free market?

The reason why people say these things is because they are being forced into vehicles that are not suitable for them or they can't afford them and because zealots like you call us Neanderthals.
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People are not being forced into them - if you want to buy a new EV, new ICE or a 20 year old ICE you can!

If you had read my post you would have seen there are many reasons an EV may not be suitable - my financial position 8 years ago for example would mean no way EV. Same as if I needed a pickup truck, or was doing 60k a year as I was doing in a previous job. All valid and perfectly fine. But its when someone who does 8k a year says range is rubbish... really??
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
There is a place for electric cars but they are not and never can be a replacement for the internal combustion engined cars, at the present level of infrastructure and technology.
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Well, even if that was the case, the "present level of infrastructure and technology" is not frozen in time. So it is a false argument you make.

How many chargers were there 20 years ago, compared with now,?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
You have got to the heart of the problem.

There is a place for electric cars but they are not and never can be a replacement for the internal combustion engined cars, at the present level of infrastructure and technology. Another key problem, as you say, are the zealots, who advocate cheating the non-users of electric cars and bribing as many people as possible into using the things, which it seems cannot compete on an open market.

Require the users of those things to pay fuel duty and vehicle excise duty at the appropriate levels (which would have to rise significantly to cover the cost of electrification) and my guess is that the market for the things would shrink considerably.
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When will diesel users repay what they stole then?
 
ecoleman said:
Are you suggesting a Free market?

The reason why people say these things is because they are being forced into vehicles that are not suitable for them or they can't afford them and because zealots like you call us Neanderthals.
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A free market? Like the one heavily skewed by underhand tactics by the fossil fuel industry, and the hidden subsidies for that industry?
 
cambsno said:
People are not being forced into them
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From 2030 they will be, and you know it.

Manufacturers are being fined for not hitting EV targets which inevitably gets added onto the price of a the vehicle. Is that not forcing people? It sounds like forcing to me.
 
Pound Coin said:
A free market? Like the one heavily skewed by underhand tactics by the fossil fuel industry, and the hidden subsidies for that industry?
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Oh look a deflection and something I couldn't give a crap about. I just want to buy what is suitable for me.
 
ecoleman said:
Oh look a deflection and something I couldn't give a crap about. I just want to buy what is suitable for me.
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"I just want to buy what I have been led to believe is suitable for me."
 
ecoleman said:
From 2030 they will be, and you know it.

Manufacturers are being fined for not hitting EV targets which inevitably gets added onto the price of a the vehicle. Is that not forcing people? It sounds like forcing to me.
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Can still buy used from 2030
 
ecoleman said:
And now we're being condescending.

No really, I know which option is the most suitable for me. I don't need any help from you or the government.
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Oh, I'm not trying to help you. I’m just pointing out how it is.
 
Friendly discussion is good, offensive and insulting posts are unwelcome and any more of them will result in mod action.
 
ecoleman said:
Yes they will but used ICE cars aren't going to last forever.
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Neither is the fuel they run on!!

Economically viable oil reserves are due to run our 2050-2060. At that point I assume as it is scarce and demand drops, the price will be very high. Its better to move away now and not be rushed. EV may not be the long term answer - maybe hydrogen or something will be the main player in 2050 but at least we already have a viable alternative!
 
ecoleman said:
Look forward to seeing photographs of yours soon then.
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good luck with that , i will be selling my car in about 6 months as I no longer need it.
I spend that much time now in Gran Canaria it just sits in the garage on a battery conditioner.
 
cambsno said:
Neither is the fuel they run on!!

Economically viable oil reserves are due to run our 2050-2060. At that point I assume as it is scarce and demand drops, the price will be very high. Its better to move away now and not be rushed. EV may not be the long term answer - maybe hydrogen or something will be the main player in 2050 but at least we already have a viable alternative!
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This is such an important factor, quite apart from Climate Change and if we can survive that.
 
cambsno said:
Neither is the fuel they run on!!

Economically viable oil reserves are due to run our 2050-2060. At that point I assume as it is scarce and demand drops, the price will be very high. Its better to move away now and not be rushed. EV may not be the long term answer - maybe hydrogen or something will be the main player in 2050 but at least we already have a viable alternative!
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There is already synthetic fuel
 
Mr Bump said:
good luck with that , i will be selling my car in about 6 months as I no longer need it.
I spend that much time now in Gran Canaria it just sits in the garage on a battery conditioner.
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Maybe one day they they'll bring out an electric aeroplane. Lets see how eager you are to get on one of those.
 
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