Why are people buying electric cars?

[ecoleman]

You are the one thats blinkered!

Today, no, you cant have a 737 running off batteries but give it 5 or 10 years and advances in tech... if a 737 was signed off as safe it wouldnt bother me. Remember that tech evolves. first EVs didnt have this range. Go back to the start of digital cameras.... 1mp was big, then came 2mp, D40 in 2007 was 6mp, now phones have 50mp.

Electric (small planes) are around now - lots of development aaround commercial planes going on.

Okay, we'll see

 

[cambsno]

With EV starting at £15K brand new, matching the price of new ICE cars, I don't think it is correct to say EVs are for the privileged few anymore.

And thats partly down to the cheapness it is to fuel an EV,

If there had been tax from day 1, many wouldnt have adopted. Because many are adopting the infrastructure is getting there quickly and at some point we will switch to PPM or something. Long term it may actually be worthwhile for the government to subsidise for a bit to get longer term rewards, and the are not always finanical.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Knock what off exactly?

Calling each other blinkered.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

With EV starting at £15K brand new, matching the price of new ICE cars, I don't think it is correct to say EVs are for the privileged few anymore.

My annoyance is about the discounts (paid for out of our taxes) and the tax money not being collected on the fuel.

And before anybody starts, electricity is fuel too.

 

[Pound Coin]

My annoyance is about the discounts (paid for out of our taxes) and the tax money not being collected on the fuel.

And before anybody starts, electricity is fuel too.

The oil industry has massively benefitted from 'discounts' of some kind or another...

 

[Mr Bump]

My annoyance is about the discounts (paid for out of our taxes) and the tax money not being collected on the fuel.

And before anybody starts, electricity is fuel too.

I think you just come across as angry at people trying new clean technology and being supported for it.
but the reality is you also could benefit if you wanted to try it, your reluctance to engage isn't a caveat to be angry though.

its like stopping smoking the gov spends over £70 million a year helping people and this in turn reduces taxes but its still the right thing to do isn't it?

 

[munch]

Here's a graph for Andrew. A clear indication of why (if we continue with private transport) we have to go electric. Somehow occupiers of the planet have to reduce their CO2 output considerably.

You could read that graph another way, and say EV's have had no effect, as CO2 levels are still rising.

The reality is that it doesn't really say anything.

The worlds population has grown from an estimated 2.5 Billion in 1950 to an estimated 7.9 Billion in 2021, that may have something to do with it as well.

I really think that in the greater scheme of things my gas guzzling 12 year old Land Rover is having no effect what so ever.

 

[Mr Bump]

I really think that in the greater scheme of things my gas guzzling 12 year old Land Rover is having no effect what so ever.

because you are thinking only of yourself as are most people in the UK and westernised world
everything needs to play a part if we are to make the planet a cleaner, nice place to live for the next 1000s of years
from vehicle pollution to renewable energy to sustainable food reduction to managing our oceans.
everything counts , the whole EV thing is a huge part of this as you are switching to renewable clean energy its like all the other stuff, trains, buses
have you actually walked around a busy town/city centre and just seen how much pollution is spewing out just in your locality?

 

[munch]

because you are thinking only of yourself as are most people in the UK and westernised world
everything needs to play a part if we are to make the planet a cleaner, nice place to live for the next 1000s of years
from vehicle pollution to renewable energy to sustainable food reduction to managing our oceans.
everything counts , the whole EV thing is a huge part of this as you are switching to renewable clean energy its like all the other stuff, trains, buses
have you actually walked around a busy town/city centre and just seen how much pollution is spewing out just in your locality?

Of course I am thinking of myself. But then again I have never flown abroad for a holiday, I have always recycled as much as I can (long before it became fashionable) the beef I eat is so locally sourced I can look out of my back garden and see the cows grazing. Nearly all other meat we eat is locally sourced. I use my local weigh and save for a lot of things. I nearly always use public transport to to take me to the walks I do. I have been using the same camera since 2009. I don't think I have ever replaced a tool just because there is a newer version of it. We only replaced our 15 year old TV last year. I have had the same Bose system for over 15 years and have no plans to replace it.

"helping" the environment means different things to different people. Just because you drive an EV doesn't actually mean you are doing more for the environment than I am.

 

[Mr Bump]

Of course I am thinking of myself. But then again I have never flown abroad for a holiday, I have always recycled as much as I can (long before it became fashionable) the beef I eat is so locally sourced I can look out of my back garden and see the cows grazing. Nearly all other meat we eat is locally sourced. I use my local weigh and save for a lot of things. I nearly always use public transport to to take me to the walks I do. I have been using the same camera since 2009. I don't think I have ever replaced a tool just because there is a newer version of it. We only replaced our 15 year old TV last year. I have had the same Bose system for over 15 years and have no plans to replace it.

"helping" the environment means different things to different people. Just because you drive an EV doesn't actually mean you are doing more for the environment than I am.

good for you it does sound like you are at the lower end of the scale, but the reality is most of the westernised world isn't
some families of four have four ICE cars on the drive, a lot of the UK has the worst least insulated housing stock in Europe
many in the UK still burn oil as heating in 2025 , the UK is horrifically bad in food waste. We are still running diesel powered trains in 2025?

Food waste in the UK​

UK Parliament
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk › CBP-...


12 Apr 2024 — WRAP estimated that the greenhouse gas emissions associated with wasted food and drink in the UK accounted for approximately 18 million tonnes ...

Approximately 7 million households in the UK are using boilers that are 10 years old or older. This represents a significant portion of the 23 million gas boilers in the UK, with many homeowners unaware of the potential cost savings and efficiency gains of replacing them with newer models.

 

[Pound Coin]

You could read that graph another way, and say EV's have had no effect, as CO2 levels are still rising.

The reality is that it doesn't really say anything.

The worlds population has grown from an estimated 2.5 Billion in 1950 to an estimated 7.9 Billion in 2021, that may have something to do with it as well.

I really think that in the greater scheme of things my gas guzzling 12 year old Land Rover is having no effect what so ever.

Actually, what the graph is helping to show is that it would have been worse without EVs and other CO2 mitigation factors.

It doesn't matter what the population is - there is a massive increase in atmospheric CO2 and it is helping to increase the average temperature. The cause is what we do as occupiers of the planet. With currently inconvenient results, and probably not so long away, catastrophic results.

 

[munch]

good for you it does sound like you are at the lower end of the scale, but the reality is most of the westernised world isn't
some families of four have four ICE cars on the drive, a lot of the UK has the worst least insulated housing stock in Europe
many in the UK still burn oil as heating in 2025 , the UK is horrifically bad in food waste. We are still running diesel powered trains in 2025?

Food waste in the UK​

UK Parliament
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk › CBP-...


12 Apr 2024 — WRAP estimated that the greenhouse gas emissions associated with wasted food and drink in the UK accounted for approximately 18 million tonnes ...

Approximately 7 million households in the UK are using boilers that are 10 years old or older. This represents a significant portion of the 23 million gas boilers in the UK, with many homeowners unaware of the potential cost savings and efficiency gains of replacing them with newer models.

Don't be so bl*ddy patronising.

Apart from your EV car what are you doing that is so good?

 

[munch]

Actually, what the graph is helping to show is that it would have been worse without EVs and other CO2 mitigation factors.

It doesn't matter what the population is - there is a massive increase in atmospheric CO2 and it is helping to increase the average temperature. The cause is what we do as occupiers of the planet. With currently inconvenient results, and probably not so long away, catastrophic results.

It shows no such thing. Nobody is disputing CO2 is rising but you can't ignore population growth as being a reason why it has risen.

 

[Mr Bump]

@munch take it how you want to i actually wasn't being patronising but the reality is below....

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

because you are thinking only of yourself as are most people in the UK and westernised world

As is virtually everyone, who never went to the Imperial College of Kamikaze.

everything needs to play a part if we are to make the planet a cleaner, nice place to live for the next 1000s of years

Well, there may be people who don't want that but most people would like to see it, just so long as there aren't a bunch of shrill voices demanding that they do it.

Remember the old saw about vinegar, honey and flies.

...have you actually walked around a busy town/city centre

frequently.

and just seen how much pollution is spewing out just in your locality?

Not for many years. Anyone who lived in Glasgow in the 'fifties and London in the 'sixties knows what real polution looks like and I doubt that there are any examples of that in today's Britain.

 

[Mr Bump]

It shows no such thing. Nobody is disputing CO2 is rising but you can't ignore population growth as being a reason why it has risen.

it shows people are directly linked to pollution how much simpler do you need it to be?

 

[Mr Bump]

@AndrewFlannigan
I'm just baffled at your complete lack of interest in the world and our planet.
do you have children?

 

[Erty]

Current green electricity production is about 150TWh or 5.4 x10^17J a year.
Total electricity production is about 250TWh or 9x10^17J a year.
Total domestic electricity consumption is 93TWh or 3.3x10^17J a year
Total domestic gas use is 350TWh or 1.26x10^18J a year
Callorific value of petrol used in UK is 6.2x10^17J a year.
Callorific value of diesel used in UK a year is 1.09x10^18J a year.

Bearing in mind electricity, gas and coal are all used domestically and industrially, a green electrical future is not going to happen any time soon.

 

[Mr Bump]

Current green electricity production is about 150TWh or 5.4 x10^17J a year.
Total electricity production is about 250TWh or 9x10^17J a year.
Total domestic electricity consumption is 93TWh or 3.3x10^17J a year
Total domestic gas use is 350TWh or 1.26x10^18J a year
Callorific value of petrol used in UK is 6.2x10^17J a year.
Callorific value of diesel used in UK a year is 1.09x10^18J a year.

Bearing in mind electricity, gas and coal are all used domestically and industrially, a green electrical future is not going to happen any time soon.

And that is a perfect example of why it is so hard to engage with the general public, vast lists of numbers do not work pictures and graphs are what are needed.
as below for instance todays electricity generation right at the minute..

 

[munch]

And that is a perfect example of why it is so hard to engage with the general public,

it is difficult for you, as all you do is talk down to people who have different view to you.

I asked before what are you actually doing to save the planet, apart from having an EV?

 

[Erty]

Okay, if you wanted to phase out all the gas, petrol and diesel you need to produce 11 times as much green energy.

That is not going to happen. No company wants to put any more windmills in the sea. The nuclear programmes are years late. Even if they did it, the backup infrastructure would be huge. Net zero 2030 will fail.

 

[Pound Coin]

It shows no such thing. Nobody is disputing CO2 is rising but you can't ignore population growth as being a reason why it has risen.

Neither can you ignore the fact that mechanisms that produce CO2, produce CO2. The graph would have been worse without the mitigation that has been put in place. The sad thing is that the mitigation is nowhere near enough.

 

[Erty]

Neither can you ignore the fact that mechanisms that produce CO2, produce CO2. The graph would have been worse without the mitigation that has been put in place. The sad thing is that the mitigation is nowhere near enough.

Are you sure. As the off-shoring of production to China (due to increasing domestic energy costs) has not been a good thing at the global level. China is powered by coal.

 

[munch]

Neither can you ignore the fact that mechanisms that produce CO2, produce CO2. The graph would have been worse without the mitigation that has been put in place. The sad thing is that the mitigation is nowhere near enough.

Not ignoring them, just the assertions of Mr Bump about them. Bearing in mind the subject of this thread is EV's

 

[Pound Coin]

Are you sure. As the off-shoring of production to China (due to increasing domestic energy costs) has not been a good thing at the global level. China is powered by coal.

China probably isn't the best example of an ostrich 'head in the sand' approach to climate change. That would be the US.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

And that is a perfect example of why it is so hard to engage with the general public...

Possibly, the reason "it is so hard to engage with the general public" is simply that they see through the hyperbole and the hysteria?

The truth that air polution in Europe is much less than it was fifty years ago and most citizens are quite happy with that.

 

[Vintage Racer]

It was only one year ago, that the UK government made year round plans to 'ration' electricity supply to homes and even offered some homes, cash incentives to change their laundry habits to move to washing laundry at night and cooking dinner at different times of day!.

If they fear that there may be shortages now, what hope have they got of supporting the demand for electricity, if more of the population move to EV's

It is farcical to think that the national grid could cope with the targetted increase in EV's

Never mind though, those who are enjoying their 'modern' motoring choices will no doubt embrace sitting at home in the dark and unable to charge their Tesla's!

 

[ancient_mariner]

It was only one year ago, that the UK government made year round plans to 'ration' electricity supply to homes and even offered some homes, cash incentives to change their laundry habits to move to washing laundry at night and cooking dinner at different times of day!.

This is normal in France, and has been for a while. It's more about load balancing than a crisis of supply, with red days and blue days having very different pricing IF you're on the right tariff.

 

[Mr Bump]

I asked before what are you actually doing to save the planet, apart from having an EV?

Who said I had an EV?

 

[munch]

Who said I had an EV?

Well go on then tell us what are you doing for the environment?

 

[Steep]

Are you sure. As the off-shoring of production to China (due to increasing domestic energy costs) has not been a good thing at the global level. China is powered by coal.

China is in fact a world leader in renewable power, solar and wind. Yes they are still reliant on coal but they are moving away from it a such a rate it will not be many more years before they are mostly green powered.

 

[Steep]

Well go on then tell us what are you doing for the environment?

Will you give it a rest?

 

[munch]

Will you give it a rest?

Just asking a straight forward question, that someone doesn't appear to want to answer. Doesn't it make you wonder why they won't?
,

 

[Steep]

Just asking a straight forward question, that someone doesn't appear to want to answer. Doesn't it make you wonder why they won't?
,

No, anybody here is free to answer you or not as they wish, without being harassed or hounded because they choose not to.

Give it a rest.

 

[BillN_33]

No, anybody here is free to answer you or not as they wish, without being harassed or hounded because they choose not to.

Give it a rest.

Why are people buying electric cars?​

because the BMW i3 is unique and magical - we now have 3 in the family - a perfect "town car" and more

 

[munch]

No, anybody here is free to answer you or not as they wish, without being harassed or hounded because they choose not to.

Give it a rest.

Didn't realise you had become a moderator.

But I don't think it is unreasonable for someone who continually goes on about how people are not doing enough to save the planet, to tell us what he is actually doing.

 

[Steep]

Why are people buying electric cars?​

because the BMW i3 is unique and magical - we now have 3 in the family - a perfect "town car" and more

We used to have those as company cars, everybody loved them. Not so keen on the 70 mile winter range mind.
You can get an extended battery as a replacement now pretty cheap, make the i3 into a great town/mid range car.
BMW could do worse than bring out an updated version.

 

[cambsno]

Okay, if you wanted to phase out all the gas, petrol and diesel you need to produce 11 times as much green energy.

That is not going to happen. No company wants to put any more windmills in the sea. The nuclear programmes are years late. Even if they did it, the backup infrastructure would be huge. Net zero 2030 will fail.

Well, we will have to at some point, it will run out. Are you suggesting we wait till the last second?

 

[cambsno]

My annoyance is about the discounts (paid for out of our taxes) and the tax money not being collected on the fuel.

And before anybody starts, electricity is fuel too.

Does your annoyance also include John the office worker waiting for the 615 from Waterloo as the train companies receive subsidies, so he is benefitting from the taxpayer, or Doris, waiting for the no. 15 bus, who is also subsidised? Should we pull all subsidies from rail and bus too?

 

[srichards]

We used to have those as company cars, everybody loved them. Not so keen on the 70 mile winter range mind.
You can get an extended battery as a replacement now pretty cheap, make the i3 into a great town/mid range car.
BMW could do worse than bring out an updated version.

I think BMW lost money on all of them. The last ones from 2019 on had a bigger battery and will do 150-180 miles in the warmer weather without much bother. That's perfectly reasonable for a lot of people. The trap doors and lack of opening windows in the rear plus restrictive silly wheels probably put off a lot of potential buyers.