ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
Does that work for non-Tesla cars too?
and help to keep the site free for all
Does that work for non-Tesla cars too?
JonathanRyan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 10,765
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Yes. Not all do, but this one does. Costs a bit more or you can pay for membership and charge at Tesla rates. Non Tesla rates are similar to other networks.
There may be a gridserve there as well. I think I saw one the other week.
gman
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,100
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- Yes
What did you think of it? I drove a 6th gen and whilst it is certainly very nice inside, the visible long bonnet feels a little oil tanker whilst driving. I've driven a few different models and never really gelled with Mercedes. They always had terrible turbo lag, although I believe this is starting to be mitigated by having small electric motors on the turbo to spool it up fast.
JohnStewart
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,160
- Name
- John Stewart
- Edit My Images
- Yes
As I'm thinking about changing my car next year, I've been re-reading many of the comments in this thread, as I know many members have shared real life experiences with EVs - thanks for sharing your thoughts.
When I last changed my car over 2 years ago after my diesel BMW was written off (not my fault), I did quite a bit of research into an EV as a possible replacement, but they weren't a practical option for me at the time. Range and lack of charging points near my house or work. The biggest issue for me was the unusable range of many of the smaller EVs on the market (under 150 miles at motorway speeds). I don't want (or need) a large car. The petrol 1 series I have just now is about the perfect size (90% of the time it's just me in the car), and I definitely don't want a large SUV type vehicle, though something "slightly" larger would be OK.
About 15 weekends of the year, I make a 300-320 mile round trip (5:30am Saturday departure, 10pm Sunday return) and there's no charging points at my destination (nearest 20 minutes away in the wrong direction). At the time, the closest charging point to my home was a 20 minute walk, but earlier this year the local co-op 5 minutes away installed a couple of chargers, and there's a new charging station opened up en-route which could offer the opportunity of a "splash and dash" to get me home.
Moving from diesel to petrol was a big change, and made me realise how much I hated wasting time taking a 15 minute detour to fill up with fuel. I could previously get 500-650 miles from a full tank, so I filled up maybe once a month during winter and maybe every two weeks during the summer including weekend trips. Now with a range of about 340-360 miles, I have to fill up almost every week and if I fuel up (10 miles away) before heading off for the weekend, then the low fuel warning is displayed for the last 10-20 miles on the return journey. I know I have enough fuel to get to work the next day, whereas my wife gets anxious when her fuel tank dips below half full and she only has a 20 mile round trip to make. I'm not relishing the prospect of waiting hours for a car to charge on a long journey.
After talking to a neighbour yesterday who is on his second EV (some huge Cupra SUV monster), he mentioned that it has a real world range of over 300 miles and massive discounts off of RRP are available from some dealers (over 10k apparently!). It also has hideous 21 inch wheels and I hate to think how much a new set of tyres would cost and what the ride quality is like on our pothole filled roads!
This started me looking into an EV as a possibility for my next car, so I thought I'd look in this thread for suitable recommdations. The other alternative I'm thinking of is a modern LEZ compliant diesel.
My criteria are:
300 - 350 mile real world range - 90% of which would be at motorway speeds.
Not too big, no SUV/people carrier type vehicles - especially not with 20+ inch wheels!
Ideally less than 25k to purchase (second hand up to 2 years old, unlikely to be any new deals within budget).
Less than the 40k RRP luxury tax band, paying over 600/year for VED in conjunction with the 3p/mile mentioned in the budget (£400+ for me), would more or less wipe out any savings in fuel costs.
Preferrably not some Chinese manufacturer I've not heard of and I'm not keen on Teslas.
Can anyone recommend some suitable cars I should consider arranging a test drive for ?
When I last changed my car over 2 years ago after my diesel BMW was written off (not my fault), I did quite a bit of research into an EV as a possible replacement, but they weren't a practical option for me at the time. Range and lack of charging points near my house or work. The biggest issue for me was the unusable range of many of the smaller EVs on the market (under 150 miles at motorway speeds). I don't want (or need) a large car. The petrol 1 series I have just now is about the perfect size (90% of the time it's just me in the car), and I definitely don't want a large SUV type vehicle, though something "slightly" larger would be OK.
About 15 weekends of the year, I make a 300-320 mile round trip (5:30am Saturday departure, 10pm Sunday return) and there's no charging points at my destination (nearest 20 minutes away in the wrong direction). At the time, the closest charging point to my home was a 20 minute walk, but earlier this year the local co-op 5 minutes away installed a couple of chargers, and there's a new charging station opened up en-route which could offer the opportunity of a "splash and dash" to get me home.
Moving from diesel to petrol was a big change, and made me realise how much I hated wasting time taking a 15 minute detour to fill up with fuel. I could previously get 500-650 miles from a full tank, so I filled up maybe once a month during winter and maybe every two weeks during the summer including weekend trips. Now with a range of about 340-360 miles, I have to fill up almost every week and if I fuel up (10 miles away) before heading off for the weekend, then the low fuel warning is displayed for the last 10-20 miles on the return journey. I know I have enough fuel to get to work the next day, whereas my wife gets anxious when her fuel tank dips below half full and she only has a 20 mile round trip to make. I'm not relishing the prospect of waiting hours for a car to charge on a long journey.
After talking to a neighbour yesterday who is on his second EV (some huge Cupra SUV monster), he mentioned that it has a real world range of over 300 miles and massive discounts off of RRP are available from some dealers (over 10k apparently!). It also has hideous 21 inch wheels and I hate to think how much a new set of tyres would cost and what the ride quality is like on our pothole filled roads!
This started me looking into an EV as a possibility for my next car, so I thought I'd look in this thread for suitable recommdations. The other alternative I'm thinking of is a modern LEZ compliant diesel.
My criteria are:
300 - 350 mile real world range - 90% of which would be at motorway speeds.
Not too big, no SUV/people carrier type vehicles - especially not with 20+ inch wheels!
Ideally less than 25k to purchase (second hand up to 2 years old, unlikely to be any new deals within budget).
Less than the 40k RRP luxury tax band, paying over 600/year for VED in conjunction with the 3p/mile mentioned in the budget (£400+ for me), would more or less wipe out any savings in fuel costs.
Preferrably not some Chinese manufacturer I've not heard of and I'm not keen on Teslas.
Can anyone recommend some suitable cars I should consider arranging a test drive for ?
Jelster
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,986
- Name
- Steve
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think, from what you have written, a hybrid would be a better bet for you. My mate get's around 500 miles in a hybrid 5 series BMW, I'm quite sure something like an X1 or X2 would fit the bill, and both have hybrid options (I think).
JohnStewart
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,160
- Name
- John Stewart
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I've just had a quick look and there's nothing sub 25k and under 2 years old. I also think the original RRP would be over £40k
Plenty of diesel 1 series though which I'm currently browsing....
- Messages
- 49,339
- Name
- Nod (UK)
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I wouldn't buy one and if given one would sell it PDQ! Too big, sluggish (but so's anything compared to an iPace!), too complicated (maybe not to a Merc driver but it NEEDED a manual - not supplied as a hire car! Took ages to figure out how to open the bonnet, even with youtube's help - if you don't know which specific generation it is, it's hard to figure it out!) Having the gear selector where normal cars have the windsreen wipers was counterintuitive. We were very glad to see the back of it.
Very comfortable and plenty of room in the back but handles like a barge compared to my XF and the iPace. Did like the HUD, mainly because the main display is so cluttered (possibly user adjustable but hard to do without the manual...) that it's hard to see the speedo.
Jelster
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,986
- Name
- Steve
- Edit My Images
- Yes
- Messages
- 17,208
- Name
- Hugh
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I've just had a quick look and there's nothing sub 25k and under 2 years old. I also think the original RRP would be over £40k
Plenty of diesel 1 series though which I'm currently browsing....
If your round trip is 300-320 you should have no problem finding a car to suit you, but 300-350 at motorway speeds even new is a no go.
Second-hand? forget it just now, the market is still too new for very long range second-hand models to be out there.
You're either going to have to go petrol/hybrid or adapt your requirements downwards, or wait a couple more years.
Last edited:
cambsno
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 20,999
- Name
- Simon
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think you are looking for a car equivalent of an f1.2 lens, sharp from 24mm-200mm, weighing 400g and costing £350
i.e. what you want is not available.
- Messages
- 49,339
- Name
- Nod (UK)
- Edit My Images
- Yes
The HUD is (after consultation with Mrs Nod!) the only thing that we miss and even that's only because of the car's confusing dials.
JohnStewart
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,160
- Name
- John Stewart
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Yes, the round trip is typically 320 miles all at motorway speeds apart from about 10 miles which is done at 60mph on an A road. I looked at the specs of a Cupra Born with a 79kwh battery (available under 26k with delivery miles), however by the time you find one with a rear camera and heated seats you are looking at circa 30k. laughably, they quote the charge time at home as up to 39 hours using a slow 2Kw charger!
- Messages
- 17,208
- Name
- Hugh
- Edit My Images
- Yes
My Ariya work car has an 87kwh battery and will do 330 miles but not at motorway speeds and not in winter. My home charger at 7kw will charge it from 15% to full in 11 hours. I regularly have to do that but most private owners will not do anything like the same mileage and only need to top up overnight. It's the base model with the big battery and comes in at over £40k new.
cambsno
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 20,999
- Name
- Simon
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Not sure what my Tesla is (basic model 3) but that charges at home typically around 34miles every hour - normally just charge between midnight and 5am for cheap rates so about 160 added overnight
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
A work colleague bought an Ariya with the bigger battery earlier this year and I had a chat this afternoon about range. She reckoned 220 motorway miles at this time of year, maybe 250-280 in the summer. Perhaps it's driving technique, but I think she was a bit surprised at having a lower range than expected.
I've done more research since posting my question, and agree that there isn't an affordable SUV type that can deliver a real 300 mile range in winter. Still waiting for a new generation of battery tech with double the energy density to come along.
- Messages
- 17,208
- Name
- Hugh
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Driving style has a lot to do with differences in range, a heavy foot can affect it just as with petrol. Add to that the Ariya is not the most aerodynamic body shape. I got mine at the end of summer and was easily getting the top range though.
Had to drive round trip 260 miles the other night at between 2 to 5c. Started with 78%, got there with 30%, charged to 69% got home with 15% left. I measured 260 miles was about the full distance I could go on mostly fast A roads with some dual carriageway but sticking to 60/65 tops (it's tracked). I could have done better if I'd driven at 50mph.
My own MGS5 is more efficient than the Ariya, smaller battery with a top range of 290 in Summer, I reckon it's 240-250 about now.
/edit - for reference the first MG I drove would be getting 140-150 in these temps.
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
There's something that might put me off an EV that I'd not taken seriously before - the cost of needing to fast-charge if travelling. Just watched a comparison video of a Tesla Y, BYD and IM6 being driven just over 500 miles from Twickenham to Cornwall and back. Topped up twice using motorway fast chargers during the trip:
Now I appreciate charging at home is cheaper, but that BYD Sealion cost almost than double what my current diesel SUV would cost to do the run (about £74 for 53L) and this was also starting off at 100% fully charged from home.
Now I appreciate charging at home is cheaper, but that BYD Sealion cost almost than double what my current diesel SUV would cost to do the run (about £74 for 53L) and this was also starting off at 100% fully charged from home.
JonathanRyan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 10,765
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
1. As with most things in life, forget about highs and lows - average is where it's at. If 2 journeys a year cost more than diesel but all the rest cost much less then don't worry.
2. I haven't watched that video but the price they quote seems pure bovine scatology to me. I've just driven my ancient inefficient model S 500 miles to Belgium and back and it didn't cost me anything like that.
2. I haven't watched that video but the price they quote seems pure bovine scatology to me. I've just driven my ancient inefficient model S 500 miles to Belgium and back and it didn't cost me anything like that.
Buck
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 5,682
- Name
- Adrian
- Edit My Images
- No
It’s the equivlent of filling up at the motorway service station but with membership of schemes such as Ionity, Gridserve, Octopus Electroverse will all get decent discounts.
The big win with EVs is charging at home. As Jonathan says, you have to look at it over a longer period. Whats the cost per mile then?
As for long distances, EVs do force you to rethink your journey but they are doable and as the infrastructure improves will only become easier and convenient.
The big win with EVs is charging at home. As Jonathan says, you have to look at it over a longer period. Whats the cost per mile then?
As for long distances, EVs do force you to rethink your journey but they are doable and as the infrastructure improves will only become easier and convenient.
gman
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,100
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That is something I wasn't aware of. As far as I know, hybrids that can propell themselves purely from EV do have decent heat management for their batteries and it's only really the very mild hybrids that may be lacking. But if that's not correct, it would be interesting know the hybrids that are lacking because my next choice of car was going to be a hybrid (not a PHEV though)
JonathanRyan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 10,765
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Exactly that. There's seems to be a certain keenness in some of the motoring press to find the most expensive way possible to charge an EV and then compare that with the cheapest possible way to do the same journey in an ICE vehicle. Whether this is naivety, mischief or deliberate probably comes down to your politics
Either way, most drivers don't pay that much unless they are trying to pad an expense claim.
LeeRatters
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 7,354
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Exactly that. There's seems to be a certain keenness in some of the motoring press to find the most expensive way possible to charge an EV and then compare that with the cheapest possible way to do the same journey in an ICE vehicle. Whether this is naivety, mischief or deliberate probably comes down to your politics
Which obviously works the other way too
AndrewFlannigan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,977
- Edit My Images
- No
...and yet again we can see the elephant in the middle of the room: why should charging at home not incur the same fuel duty as petrol or diesel?
After all, the roads still have to be maintained.
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
Exactly that. There's seems to be a certain keenness in some of the motoring press to find the most expensive way possible to charge an EV and then compare that with the cheapest possible way to do the same journey in an ICE vehicle. Whether this is naivety, mischief or deliberate probably comes down to your politics
It's back to the convenience thing, at least partially. I'd explained why I wanted a real 300 mile range, which is really very modest, but since there are superchargers at the tunnel terminal, perhaps I might top up there - consider charging rate etc was another comment. Yet fast charging is actually very expensive because the infrastructure required needs careful engineering and maintenance.
In the video cited, they were trying to fast charge (a BYD IIRC) with very limited success using a 400kw charger, so what should have been expensive but super quick was actually expensive and ordinary. This is the situation that I don't want, where I would turn up hoping for a 20min charge to cover the next 150 miles, only for it to need 45min AND to get ripped off for electricity charges.
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
gman
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,100
- Name
- Graham
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Isn't this what the impending 3p/1.5p per mile is addressing?
My worry is that they expand it on to ICE, without removing fuel duty/VAT, to force people out of such cars.
Mr Perceptive
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 9,347
- Name
- David
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think its fairly obvious that this is road pricing by the back door, and that eventually it will apply to all road journeys regardless of the method of propulsion.
Toni, if its an everyday occurence then yes away from home charging can be expensive, but for taken into consideration as the odd time then it really doesn't matter. Its no different to the +30p a litre charges at motorway service stations for fuel, they are a 'rip off' - drive 5 mins from motoway then you can get supermarket prices, same for EV chargers.
AndrewFlannigan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,977
- Edit My Images
- No
A valid concern,in my opinion.
Faced with the small but vociferous group of already bribed electric car owners, plus a car industry that's been forced into vast investment by the promise of a an internal combustion engine ban, what government is going to hold up its collective hand and say "mea culpa"?
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
Do those supermarket charges supply 150kw?
AndrewFlannigan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,977
- Edit My Images
- No
I agree.Because road fund license should pay for the roads.
However, the road fund licence is clearly not paying for the roads or they wouldn't be in the mess they are. One reason is that there are well over half a million cars on the road for which road fund tax has not been paid and for which there is no valid exemption. On top of this are all the vehicles on the road which are legally exempt from road tax.
LeeRatters
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 7,354
- Name
- Lee
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I'm pretty confident that will happen at some point.
Have they now not delayed/ revoked that ICE ban for 2035? I thought I overhead a conversation on it the other day. But I might be wrong.
I have a car exempt from road tax. But I did do less than 300 miles in it last year......
- Messages
- 4,870
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Road Fund doesn’t pay for the roads. Everyone does. Unless they pay no income tax, VAT etc…
Clive K
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 1,496
- Name
- Clive
- Edit My Images
- No
I know that part of your holiday journeys are on French roads. At places like Leclerc and Hyper-U there are 350 rated chargers that are rarely used and most of these supermarkets have restaurants. If the timing is right you could recharge and eat. The autoroute charging points are also 350, but are naturally more heavily used especially at lunch times and I believe far more expensive.
As an aside; we recently parked in a large underground car park at Carcassonne. There were around 200 bays, but only one had a charging point.
ancient_mariner
Moderator
- Messages
- 27,769
- Name
- Toni
- Edit My Images
- No
Thanks, I plainly should have looked more closely last time I visited 'our Intermarché' which has more than a dozen chargers under a vast solar panel array.
Our route from the tunnel takes us past St. Omer, among others, and that would be an obvious place to stop, but it's just the thing of having to spend an extra 40 min that lengthens an already long journey where we would not stop. The return would be less difficult because we usually allow good time and could build in stops, but outbound is more difficult.
AndrewFlannigan
Suspended / Banned
- Messages
- 11,977
- Edit My Images
- No
I agree.
This is why British governments shy away from hypothecation. If taxes were actually dedicated to the real cost of the claimed reason for their levy, we would discover all sorts of things that governments didn't want us, their employers, to know!