Why are people buying electric cars?

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It's the general control that the modern car has over you that I'm not keen on.

The little things it (as far as I'm aware) won't let you do etc I want to decide when to switch the wipers on, and the lights, and why would I want a front fog light to come on when I turn slightly......? That last one really irks me :ROFLMAO: I guess some of these things might be able to be deactivated? But still....

I watched a clip the other day & someone couldn't move their car forward 1 foot without putting their seatbelt on - It would jump from drive back to park until he buckled up.
My mate can't reverse with the drivers door open like we do sometimes to see if we're straight or whatever.... The electric handbrake automatically comes on....
Plus all the beeps etc

I think a very modern car would do my head in tbh.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Once again, there's talk of a bribe on offer to those rich enough to afford an electric car...

www.bbc.co.uk

Electric Car Grant : £1.3bn boost for EV scheme expected in Budget

But it is also possible electric vehicle owners could face a new tax elsewhere in Wednesday's Budget.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

It's thought that they won't even restrict it to new customers.
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When considering how Governments encouraged and incentivised everyone into diesels only to screw them over later on, this all feels rather similar.

I will be interesting to see how they implement the pay-per-mile scheme for EV's, which is obviously bound to come fairly soon. Will the rate be fixed periodically, or will it be fully dynamic with the ability to change daily and provide a rapid boost of extra revenue for when the Government overspends.
 
LeeRatters said:
It's the general control that the modern car has over you that I'm not keen on.

The little things it (as far as I'm aware) won't let you do etc I want to decide when to switch the wipers on, and the lights, and why would I want a front fog light to come on when I turn slightly......? That last one really irks me :ROFLMAO: I guess some of these things might be able to be deactivated? But still....

I watched a clip the other day & someone couldn't move their car forward 1 foot without putting their seatbelt on - It would jump from drive back to park until he buckled up.
My mate can't reverse with the drivers door open like we do sometimes to see if we're straight or whatever.... The electric handbrake automatically comes on....
Plus all the beeps etc

I think a very modern car would do my head in tbh.
Click to expand...

I'm not massively bothered about having all the modern bells and whilstles either and sometimes I feel like some of them are there just because they can. My current car is fairly basic when it comes to extras, no heated/cooled seats, no folding mirrors, no memory seats, no rear camera, no front parking sensors etc, I suppose less to go wrong. It's got auto headlights (which I could easily live without) and auto wipers, this is linked to the rather clever and effective brake disc wipe system (this is the sort of invisible tech I like).

There's only two features that my previous car that I wish I still had; a dipping nearside mirror when selecting reverve and front windscreen heater elements (although annoying in direct sunlight).
 
LeeRatters said:
It's the general control that the modern car has over you that I'm not keen on.

The little things it (as far as I'm aware) won't let you do etc I want to decide when to switch the wipers on, and the lights, and why would I want a front fog light to come on when I turn slightly......? That last one really irks me :ROFLMAO: I guess some of these things might be able to be deactivated? But still....

I watched a clip the other day & someone couldn't move their car forward 1 foot without putting their seatbelt on - It would jump from drive back to park until he buckled up.
My mate can't reverse with the drivers door open like we do sometimes to see if we're straight or whatever.... The electric handbrake automatically comes on....
Plus all the beeps etc

I think a very modern car would do my head in tbh.
Click to expand...
I feel I'm in a similar position. I have a 2011 car which I feel is a sweet spot for technology because it has some fancier useful features like blindspot monitoring but the rest is mostly simple with a physical handbrake, manual gears, no speed warnings, no lane departure warnings, no start/stop etc. I was in a friend's expensive new BMW and was amused when he was showing me how to use the heated seats which involved opening the climate menu, selecting my seat and then cycling through the heat levels...on my car you just press the switch in front of the gear stick. Despite my car being much older and more basic it actually felt surprisingly pleasant getting back into it since it feels like it was designed for driving, it has a simple dash that focus on the speed and revs, the centre console is well designed to make each control distinctive and easy to use plus no garish interior lighting either.

One of the reasons I've held off buying a newer car is to see where petrol and electric cars go and in particular didn't want to pay a high price for a new petrol car then find the government using financial penalties to get people off petrol and onto electric cars. It doesn't seem to be going that way at the moment with no word on removing the expensive car VED as some thought would happen to encourage electric car use and a lot of talk about pence per mile charging for electric cars. I was watching a video Porsche who were planning on going all in on electric with ambitious plans to cease petrol development within a few years but the Taycan and Macan EV have been a disaster so they're returning to petrol engine development.

Musk claims the future of Tesla is not electric cars (which they are good at mostly) but self driving robotaxis (which they're not good at ) and the Optimus robots (also not good at). The Tesla Roadster has been promised for years and they were even taking full payments for the car but there's still no sign of it although Musk is now claiming a 2027 release, there seems to be no word on the cheaper mass market Model 2 apart from I think claims they couldn't make it cheaper and instead offered slightly cheaper versions of the Model 3 and Model Y. The Model S/X are obviously long overdue a refresh although their low sales means that's not likely to happen and the Cybertruck has been a very poor seller. Oddly enough I did get to see my first Cybertruck in the flesh in an Aberdeen shopping centre of all places as part of a Tesla sales setup.
 
AFAIA, the Cybertruck failed (spectacularly!) EU safety tests. I think there was one personally imported but it failed the SVA it needed for registration in the UK. Not sure if it's legal to drive a foreign registered one here.
 
Nod said:
AFAIA, the Cybertruck failed (spectacularly!) EU safety tests. I think there was one personally imported but it failed the SVA it needed for registration in the UK. Not sure if it's legal to drive a foreign registered one here.
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It was owned by a famous (in pistonheads cicles) Youtuber, Yianni, who has several car channels. He bought the truck from Albania (not at all suspicious).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8r223pCSHE
 
Nod said:
AFAIA, the Cybertruck failed (spectacularly!) EU safety tests. I think there was one personally imported but it failed the SVA it needed for registration in the UK. Not sure if it's legal to drive a foreign registered one here.
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There is more than one.

A guy i know through a friend has one that he brought over with him from the states, the guy lives just outside of Belfast. Have no idea if it's legal to drive or not but have seen it out and about a few times.

The Tesla dealership in Belfast has one as well but believe it is only for display and can't be purchased. So that is 2 in Northern Ireland alone.
 
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Cybertruck is a total flop, even the notoriously opaque Tesla has admitted it's not selling.


Tesla has confirmed through its delivery report that Cybertruck sales have now dropped to ~5,000 units per quarter.

After planning for a production capacity of over 250,000 units per year, Tesla is currently selling the pickup truck at a rate of ~20,000 units annually.

Fords F150 lighting the best selling EV pickup, and ford are increasing production to 80,000 a year.
 
I wonder what impact 3p per mile may now have on potential first time EV buyers, especially those who do big miles. Whilst initially it probably doesn't seem too bad, but how long will it stay at 3p and will it increase by the penny, or by a percentage of a penny?
 
gman said:
I wonder what impact 3p per mile may now have on potential first time EV buyers, especially those who do big miles. Whilst initially it probably doesn't seem too bad, but how long will it stay at 3p and will it increase by the penny, or by a percentage of a penny?
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If you charge mainly at home on off-peak electricity (which in turn has got slightly cheaper) then I think it will have next to no effect. Its still loads cheaper than per mile than an ICE car

It doesn't start until April 2028 so there is plenty of time for minds to be changed yet, or for the government to assess the impact on EV sales. And its implementation doesn't appear to be fixed in stone. The Mileage Correction people are probably rubbing their hands!!!

I'm sure it will increase over time, but so is fuel duty likely to rise, making ICE more expensive.

Its the high mileage PHEV user thats really stuffed as they will be paying fuel duty and a surcharge of 1.5p mile on all their mileage. Expect to see sales of these plummet!
 
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gman said:
I wonder what impact 3p per mile may now have on potential first time EV buyers, especially those who do big miles. Whilst initially it probably doesn't seem too bad, but how long will it stay at 3p and will it increase by the penny, or by a percentage of a penny?
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I think it will damage sales - there has been the recent road tax now payable, then the higher rate one if over 40k currently i believe. Then a ppm. Knowing politcians they will milk that cow and keep putting up prices and ppm, so people will not switch. I know there will be a gap in revenue as more people go EV but seeing as your trying to increase EV adoptions seems counter-productive
 
cambsno said:
I think it will damage sales - there has been the recent road tax now payable, then the higher rate one if over 40k currently i believe. Then a ppm. Knowing politcians they will milk that cow and keep putting up prices and ppm, so people will not switch. I know there will be a gap in revenue as more people go EV but seeing as your trying to increase EV adoptions seems counter-productive
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Higher rate changed to 50k for Battery EVs in today's budget
 
The luxury car tax has been risen from £40K to £50K for EVs only (at a time when new EV prices are falling)

Even with the 3p a mile EVs are still cheaper to run. Fuel duty is currently 57.96p a litre (£2.60 a gallon) my diesel averages around 60 MPG so 4.34 p a mile in fuel duty.
 
gman said:
I wonder what impact 3p per mile may now have on potential first time EV buyers, especially those who do big miles. Whilst initially it probably doesn't seem too bad, but how long will it stay at 3p and will it increase by the penny, or by a percentage of a penny?
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I haven't looked at the details yet but although we need to raise money from motoring, this seems an extremely dumb way to do it.

I would much rather have seen an immediate freeze on fuel duty increases combined with ppm for all vehicles. I think the current plan looks like the government deprecating EVs but it's actually just a complicated tax hike.
 
Personally, I think it would have been better to just put a ppm on every vehicle, mileage taken every year at an MOT station and the bill then sent to the registered owner.

Will the 3p rise, well of course it will. Just keep the rise in line with the rise in fuel duty. I don't think it will hamper sales much if at all, the petrol heads will hope it does, but I think those who see the advantage of an EV will continue to see the benefits.
 
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By the time PPM comes in, it'll be applied to all vehicles rather than just EVs and PHEVs.
 
Delphin said:
Personally, I think it would have been better to just put a ppm on every vehicle, mileage taken every year at an MOT station and the bill then sent to the registered owner.

Will the 3p rise, well of course it will. Just keep the rise in line with the rise in fuel duty. I don't think it will hamper sales much if at all, the petrol heads will hope it does, but I think those who see the advantage of an EV will continue to see the benefits.
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Who pays for that? Will I have to pay a £10 a year cost to cover the garage? On older cars it will be pretty easy to adjust mileage and cheat (possibly new ones too).

I do like the idea of PPM aside form 3 things:

1. The cost and hassle to record this fairly without fraud
2. They fact that it penalises those who NEED a car as they live out in sticks and benefit city folk. Yes, I know that a city person will do less miles (which in theory is less fuel) but someone driving round a set of villages will be more efficient than sat in city rushours!
3. That it will be another cash cow - road tax and duty would need to be eliminated but you can bet your house that the money raised through PPM will be more, so will be another tax rise on normal people.

Thing is many on here are against Digital ID because of social scoring - so what happens in 6 or 7 years time when the government then say that we are limited to 5000 miles a year, and anything else goes from 12ppm to £12pm?
 
cambsno said:
Thing is many on here are against Digital ID because of social scoring - so what happens in 6 or 7 years time when the government then say that we are limited to 5000 miles a year, and anything else goes from 12ppm to £12pm?
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You already know the answer to that.
 
A good point made on the news about ppm, what happens if you drive abroad?
 
Delphin said:
A good point made on the news about ppm, what happens if you drive abroad?
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Hopefully you are not charged for mileage on non-British roads. I expect all mass-produced EVs and many recent ICE cars will report mileage back to base as part of standard telemetry and the data can be required by DVLA from the makers.
 
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PPM is a much better way to pay "road tax". Those who use the roads more more, pay more. I do less than 10k a year, so I would be happy to pay say 5p and lose the road fund licence. Road tax used to be a way of making sure cars were MOT'ed and insured, but that's all computer based now, so it negates that need.
 
Jelster said:
PPM is a much better way to pay "road tax". Those who use the roads more more, pay more. I do less than 10k a year, so I would be happy to pay say 5p and lose the road fund licence. Road tax used to be a way of making sure cars were MOT'ed and insured, but that's all computer based now, so it negates that need.
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I would argue that it should be fuel duty and even VAT on fuel that should be scrapped if everyone is to pay the same PPM rate.

As Vehicle Tax is still initially based on emissions, it would appear to be more about pollution; which is a flawed argument in my opinion, just as is charging residential parking permits based on emissions. Neither takes into account the crucial second component in the equation: distance driven.
 
gman said:
I would argue that it should be fuel duty and even VAT on fuel that should be scrapped if everyone is to pay the same PPM rate.

As Vehicle Tax is still initially based on emissions, it would appear to be more about pollution; which is a flawed argument in my opinion, just as is charging residential parking permits based on emissions. Neither takes into account the crucial second component in the equation: distance driven.
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You know that wont happen - it will be double or triple taxation!!! Milk the car cow!

Should lower emission cars pay less - i.e. 2p EV, 3p <1L, 4p 1-2L, 6p 2-4l and 10p 4l+

Should people in remote areas (with no public transport options) have too pay more than someone who lives in Barnet and only needs to drive 5 miles a day?
 
Jelster said:
PPM is a much better way to pay "road tax". Those who use the roads more more, pay more. I do less than 10k a year, so I would be happy to pay say 5p and lose the road fund licence. Road tax used to be a way of making sure cars were MOT'ed and insured, but that's all computer based now, so it negates that need.
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gman said:
I would argue that it should be fuel duty and even VAT on fuel that should be scrapped if everyone is to pay the same PPM rate.

As Vehicle Tax is still initially based on emissions, it would appear to be more about pollution; which is a flawed argument in my opinion, just as is charging residential parking permits based on emissions. Neither takes into account the crucial second component in the equation: distance driven.
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I have just posted in the budget thread, scrap road fund licence and fuel duty, and the average driver will still be better off at 7ppm
 
cambsno said:
Should people in remote areas (with no public transport options) have too pay more than someone who lives in Barnet and only needs to drive 5 miles a day?
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And of course the opposite argument is why do people in Barnet who only drive 5 miles a day pay the full Road Fund licence to build and maintain roads in the remote areas they never use.
 
Everyone benefits, in one way or another, from roads.

So why not roll it into income tax and make those who are richer pay more?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Everyone benefits, in one way or another, from roads.

So why not roll it into income tax and make those who are richer pay more?
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Not everyone pays income tax.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Everyone benefits, in one way or another, from roads.

So why not roll it into income tax and make those who are richer pay more?
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Because only the working people pay. And the people living off benefits get even more for nothing.
 
The need to travel
 
andya700 said:
It isn't just me who thinks that the 2035 deadline on ICE production is not going to happen.
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"The one solution fits all cases mindset"

He's right: the electric car mania is like any other obsession. It's already harming many and it will go on to harm many more, if we don't back away from it. There's nothing wrong with driving an electric car, if it fits your needs but you shouldn't get hand outs for doing so, nor be let off the taxes paid by the majority.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
"The one solution fits all cases mindset"

He's right: the electric car mania is like any other obsession. It's already harming many and it will go on to harm many more, if we don't back away from it. There's nothing wrong with driving an electric car, if it fits your needs but you shouldn't get hand outs for doing so, nor be let off the taxes paid by the majority.
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I've always advocated that you should encourage people towards something, not force them. Like you say, it may not suit their needs.
 
My previously diesel toting neighbours have bought two EVs in the last 2 months. They've suddenly realised they can get straight into a warm car not have to leave it idling on the drive for ages in the cold weather.
 
mj4456 said:
The more I’m told what’s good for me, the more I will resist.
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Nobody cares. Seriously, I know the subject can get emotive but the thread is about why people 'do' buy EVs not why they don't.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
"The one solution fits all cases mindset"

He's right: the electric car mania is like any other obsession. It's already harming many and it will go on to harm many more, if we don't back away from it. There's nothing wrong with driving an electric car, if it fits your needs but you shouldn't get hand outs for doing so, nor be let off the taxes paid by the majority.
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"harming many" is something that the fossil fuel economy is doing.

Compared with a few sad Westerners with a bit more on credit, the breakdown of the world's climate causes significantly more harm to multitudes more.
 
I think that people who are keen on them will buy them, and honestly what ever transport you decide on it will cost money and or effort.
Go with EV and it will cost the new taxes no matter what, stick with ICE and it will have its own and existing taxes.
The rumors on the net about ICEs being now allowed to be sold until 2040, if its true will push back the EV market.
There is an EV car buying tax which has increased and a luxury car tax for any car over £40,000, and that's not hard to achieve considering how much an average car now costs on the showroom floor.
So now its a case of no matter what you will have to dig deep into your pocket if you want to keep up with modern cars, but for most people who have to have a car for work and day to day, such as my self. it just get an economical as possible car just enough to do the job.
I looked yesterday on the way out of work at 2 cars in the showroom, Seat Leon estate, was 38K and the other was a Cupra at about 36K.
You can avoid some of the taxes if you lease a car because your not actually buying the car and the cost goes to the lease company.
There are loopholes and deals out there, because they have to sell cars no matter what, the manufacturers have pretty strict targets for dealers to attain.
When you see cars that are pre reg for sale, that means that to get to the targets the dealers, on paper at least have bought them to get to the targets stated by the manufacturers.
Another reason is manufacturers keep bringing out small facelifts or improvements all the time, which forces cars into a perceived age look not long after it is built,
So you cant sell a (new) car a year old that has done no miles, a 2025 model cant sit around and get a 2026 plate when someone actually buys it.
When you hear on the radio or news about car sales going up or down, its not actually accurate.
And they say they sold 100 cars when in fact they sold 60 cars and bought 40 for example.
I work on cars all the time, I do a used car check on them, its a 2025 plate with 20 miles on it but has been sitting around for over 90 days waiting for someone to buy it, its never left the dealership, but its being sold as used, you can get some great deals if you look for them.
 
Oldbones said:
I think that people who are keen on them will buy them, and honestly what ever transport you decide on it will cost money and or effort.
Go with EV and it will cost the new taxes no matter what, stick with ICE and it will have its own and existing taxes.
The rumors on the net about ICEs being now allowed to be sold until 2040, if its true will push back the EV market.
There is an EV car buying tax which has increased and a luxury car tax for any car over £40,000, and that's not hard to achieve considering how much an average car now costs on the showroom floor.
So now its a case of no matter what you will have to dig deep into your pocket if you want to keep up with modern cars, but for most people who have to have a car for work and day to day, such as my self. it just get an economical as possible car just enough to do the job.
I looked yesterday on the way out of work at 2 cars in the showroom, Seat Leon estate, was 38K and the other was a Cupra at about 36K.
You can avoid some of the taxes if you lease a car because your not actually buying the car and the cost goes to the lease company.
There are loopholes and deals out there, because they have to sell cars no matter what, the manufacturers have pretty strict targets for dealers to attain.
When you see cars that are pre reg for sale, that means that to get to the targets the dealers, on paper at least have bought them to get to the targets stated by the manufacturers.
Another reason is manufacturers keep bringing out small facelifts or improvements all the time, which forces cars into a perceived age look not long after it is built,
So you cant sell a (new) car a year old that has done no miles, a 2025 model cant sit around and get a 2026 plate when someone actually buys it.
When you hear on the radio or news about car sales going up or down, its not actually accurate.
And they say they sold 100 cars when in fact they sold 60 cars and bought 40 for example.
I work on cars all the time, I do a used car check on them, its a 2025 plate with 20 miles on it but has been sitting around for over 90 days waiting for someone to buy it, its never left the dealership, but its being sold as used, you can get some great deals if you look for them.
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That’s exactly what we did a few years ago, about 6 i think , we got a pre registered Yaris a nice 1.5 with all the gadgets including sat nav and cruise control for £12K , am planning to keep it for a long time yet especially as something decent is too expensive now
 
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