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dbr1066

dbr1066

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David
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I do all my tog stuff on a Mac, but we need to run a few Windows programes (such as Quickbooks for calculating the huge amount of dosh we're making :-))

We've run Windows XP on Parallels for years, but its all a bit long in the tooth now and my wife, who does my books, needs to upgrade her Windows to keep Quickbooks current.

Anyway, enough back-story. My question is for all you folks who use Windows, should we go for v7 or 8.1? I know v8/8.1 tends to get people all hot under the collar with the funny interface. The thing is I've heard it actually runs pretty well if you get past the UI. Understand this will only be running Quickbooks and occasionally a few small programmes. I'm just interested in the operating system stability and ease of running Windows on our Macs under Parallels. If anyone has any experience I'd love your input!

Cheers.
 
Unless you're buying a machine with a touchscreen, Windows 8 offers nothing.

Win 7 every time for me.
 
Thanks Phil. I was actually leaning towards Win 7, but I read somewhere that Win 8.1 was snappier (ignoring the odd UI, which I 'd customise ASAP).
 
Windows 8. The UI is a bit different, and some people don't like it much - but it's what's coming down the pipe for Windows (no, Fiona, Microsoft will not be taking Metro out of Windows, so stop asking), so why not get used to it early?

Performance-wise it's definitely got more "snap" than Windows 7 (which is a fine OS in its own right) and there are some cool things you can do with stuff like Storage Spaces (for organising your stuff).

I run 8.1 on my desktop PC and love it to bits.
 
So that's one vote apiece then ... what's a poor Mac user to do? :-)

Seriously, though, the UI doesn't bother me, as it'll be run only occasionally under Parallels. I'm just as concerned with performance and stability with Parallels.
 
Windows 7 gets my vote unless as Phil said you have a touch screen.
 
Windows 8 is faster and less resource hungry which you may benefit from running in a vm?

You can make 8 look and work pretty much like 7 and it's cheaper I believe
 
Windows 8 annoys me - every time I decide to go for Windows 8 I always find myself going back to Windows 7.
I just find Windows 8 aimed at Tablet PC's to be honest, not for the everyday desktop or laptop (unless you have a touchscreen monitor).
 
Nope, no touchscreen, just plain old desktop Macs (one MacPro, and a Mac mini). So the touchscreen stuff is of no use to me. But like I said, my wife'll just be running Quickbooks on Windows using Paralels, so she won't have to interact with the UI much one way or the other.
 
Much as I hate Win 8, it's faster than my Win 7.

So my advice, for the uses you have, Win 8.
 
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no i use windows 7 as a standalone on a laptop i keep the mac for all my important work
 
Good point Mike. I might make a different choice if I was selecting a new main operating system, but since we use Macs for almost everything, having a Windows OS that peforms well on a virtual machine is the most important thing.
 
Windows 8.1 for me.

Using it on desktops, laptops and it is just quicker and easier. Yes it is different, but it is better.

I find going back to XP a complete pain and I am finding going back to Windows 7 annoying as things take a little longer than in Windows 8.
 
There's not really a debate to have: unless they have recently released a new version/fix, Quickbooks doesn't run properly yet under 8, so go for 7.
 
Much as I like 8 on a couple of touchscreen netbooks/tablets, I still have 7 on my desktop, 'real' computer and have no plans to upgrade. Don't do much other than browsing on the 8 machines and for us, the tiles and touchscreen are great.
 
I've got two PCs running Win 8.1, one of them has a 22" touchscreen BUT on both I've resorted to using the Start8 app to "mimic" Win 7.


*Win 8 gets in my way too much, everything I want to do to the PC seems to be hidden a lot further down than in win 7..... IMO etc ;)
** The rest of the Gubby Family wouldn't touch the Win 8.1 machines until I'd "fixed" them :shrug:
 
While 8 works better for touchscreens, it doesn't work any 'less' better for non-touchscreens. All this 'unusable' stuff is just the kind of people that argue over which console is better spouting off.

That said, if you need it for QuickBooks, and QuickBooks doesn't support 8 yet.....there's your answer.
 
I'm playing with my first Win 8 machine here (an Asus T100 convertible)... I'd say "unusable" really means "less usable". It works, but just seems to have a little much clutter. It definitely feels more comfortable with a mixture of keyboard and touch. It's for the MiL so may well drop Start8 onto it so she has something more familiar.
 
Windows 8 is OK, it's just different to what people are used to, boots up nice and quick and the stuff you regularly use can be put on the initial screen as a tile (or whatever MS call them).

I have it on a touchscreen laptop, however I use the mouse as the screen soon looses it's lustre when it is covered in fingerprints
 
Windows 8.1 for sure, will never go back to 7.
 
I don't understand why Microsoft don't develop different interfaces for different markets.

The early windows mobile OS's we're cut down versions of windows, so totally unsuitable for the devices they were installed on, now Win 8 is a mobile interface splattered onto a desktop.

Meanwhile the king of the UI, have happily meandered along with the best mobile OS and an increasingly popular desktop OS as discrete product lines.

To me it's so obvious that a desktop UI is as unsuitable for a tablet as a mobile UI is for a desktop, it's a classic case of the marketing department doing the wrong research.

All those people who became Apple fanboys when they bought an IPhone aren't throwing their arms in the air when their IMac has a different UI. They're enjoying a product designed for their needs.
 
on the flipside, windows has been the same layout since windows 95. that makes it a hugely outdated platform layout.

a bit like OSX.

/dons flame suit.

at the end of the day MS (etc) spend a small fortune on R&D. they wont have done this if they didnt think they could shift enough units to make a profit.
 
Windows 8 plus this.

best of 7 and 8... Win Win.... (pun intended)
 
If Windows 8 is supposed to be good, then they wouldn't need Windows 8.1, therefore if they do make 8.1 only a year after 8, that's saying something. Like suggesting Windows 8 is no good so they rush out a replacement, that being 8.1!!

Windows XP worked well, then Vista struggled, then they replaced it with Windows 7 and it worked well, not comes Windows 8 and it struggled, so they replaced it with 8.1

Nah, the way I see it, I'm not sure about Windows 8, so I would rather stick to my good old trusty Windows 98 which worked well for me for 15 years, I've now moved on to XP for temporary until I build my computer and install it with Widows 7.

Well, that's just my option.
 
That's a bit like saying that OSX is never good as they release yearly updates, the same is true for Android and IOS.

What Microsoft aimed for was to create a unified experience, and to that extent they have succeeded. An Xbox One user, Windows Phone user, Windows RT user or full Windows 8 user will have a very familiar interface to work with, so less of a steep learning curve. OSX is heading the same way and may resemble more IOS in the coming years. All 8.1 did was to add a button which had the same function as clicking in the same area in 8.0, it just made it easier for previous windows users to adopt the new system.

If anything, Microsoft may bring back the original menu as an option, but it will not be default. In short, if you are a Windows user, get used to it as it's unlikely to change dramatically. And give it 24-48hrs of constant use and you'll like it, it's cleaner, faster and very stable.
 
There's no good reason for a unified user interface though. I use a tablet for different things to my desktop, my phone differently too.

If Apple were moving in that direction we'd have seen hints of it. They haven't done it because it's stupid. Microsoft have dropped the ball on the UI in the past, with Windows media edition, which was universally hated, windows mobile, universally hated, and now Win 8, which has a really whizzy kernel but a really unpopular interface.

I have no idea what the design team do for research, but it's ineffective. Microsoft are too software centric, they turned down the idea of tablets originally because they had no idea how to get a windows desktop onto it or how to upsell MS Office on it.

They had the resource to build a mobile UI and steal the march on the market that became Ipad, they dropped the ball, because they were stuck with their old model. Their answer is to modify their whole product line to make it fit.

As a user of Windows all the way back to 3.1 (including the NT's) I find it frustrating. I'm not some Apple fanboy mocking, I'm aghast and frustrated. I'd be just as happy with a Win phone and Win tablet if they'd got their finger out and sorted it when they should have. They failed because they didn't have the imagination to succeed, the horrible Win 8 desktop is a failure.

The idea that I would love it after spending 20 hrs playing is a joke. It's a UI, if I don't 'get it' in half an hour, it failed.

I 'got' the Win 95 desktop instantly, Win 7 was the first windows to change that (slightly) for the better, every other iteration was either invisible or a failure.

The perfect device for me at the moment would be a hybrid tablet but none of the windows ones are perfect, after improvements to the design, they're still not really market ready. Again, that's frustrating, I'm typing this on an iPad, and I'll still have to buy a new laptop. Add that to a desktop and it's at least one too many devices.

Microsoft had the power to control the market and let it slip by being inert. 5 years ago, we'd have laughed to hear their crown was about to slip. But they should have seen the future, that's their job.

When my desktop is ready for replacement, I may well end up with Apple, not because of all the usual Apple fanboy reasons, but simply because Microsoft have failed to build a suitable Windows desktop for the tasks I want to perform. That's ridiculous.
 
Everyone is different, Windows 8 failed for you, succeeded for others. Like you said, if it doesn't work for you then you have to look at other alternatives such as OSX. Surely that's the benefit of the current technical generation, we have choice :)

I seemed to recall, that when Windows 95 came out, a LOT of users ran progman.exe to make it look like Windows 3.x as they were uncomfortable or hated the new layout.
 
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Neilc28 said:
Everyone is different, Windows 8 failed for you, succeeded for others. Like you said, if it doesn't work for you then you have to look at other alternatives such as OSX. Surely that's the benefit of the current technical generation, we have choice :)

I seemed to recall, that when Windows 95 came out, a LOT of users ran progman.exe to make it look like Windows 3.x as they were uncomfortable or hated the new layout.
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Neil you seem to have missed my point by miles. It's probably my fault; but in a nutshell, explain to me why a user interface designed for a touchscreen mobile device is any use to anyone on a desktop?

Every heavyweight user of Windows I know when faced with Windows 8 either hacked it to death or just installed 7. It's a million miles away from running Progman on Win 95.
 
Have to say I'm with Phil on this one. I've recently got an Asus Transformer Book T100 as a present for the MiL for Christmas. Great little thing, but I'd hate to be running Win 8 on something that isn't a touchscreen. If it were mine, I'd probably deconstruct the UI so it felt like Win7....
 
If someone came up with a different way of driving everyone would hate it. It won't matter if it is good or bad. It is different so hated. Is it better or is it worse? People don't like it because they have done it one way for 15+ years and don't like change.

Like the office Ribbon.

As for apple not doing iOS things in OSX, why is there an App Store and a new launcher that looks like iOS, but is so hated/bad it is never mentioned?

Why a uniform UI? Does it take rocket science to explain that? No familiarity, the ability to learn one device and transfer the logic to other devices.
 
Dale_tem said:
If someone came up with a different way of driving everyone would hate it. It won't matter if it is good or bad. It is different so hated. Is it better or is it worse? People don't like it because they have done it one way for 15+ years and don't like change.

Like the office Ribbon.

As for apple not doing iOS things in OSX, why is there an App Store and a new launcher that looks like iOS, but is so hated/bad it is never mentioned?

Why a uniform UI? Does it take rocket science to explain that? No familiarity, the ability to learn one device and transfer the logic to other devices.
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I really think you're missing the fundamental here. A user interface is fundamental to the use of a product, something designed for a touch screen and finger gestures is useless when you start using a mouse, likewise, something designed for mouse use is horrid with gestures.

Why was I using the app for the forum on the ipad? the website looks OK on it, but the app is faster and easier to use; Why? Because it was designed for a mobile device. It's not about being change averse, I've worked in IT and on projects for 15 years - I don't mind change, I like toys and new stuff, but I also appreciate sensible design.

Familiarity is no use if it's riddled with frustration, that's like putting car type controls on a motorbike (to twist your analogy) and saying "well it works fine for all those people".

If a UI works well for touches, it stands to reason it doesn't work well for a mouse, and vice versa (I'm getting deja vu).

The Office ribbon took some getting used to, and frankly I can't see the point in it, but I never liked the office habit of hiding less used functions either.

Adding some iOS functions into OSX isn't the same thing at all, we're talking about UI not functions (and like you said, they're unpopular).

That's a very important point, when my devices start deciding what I want to use and hiding other stuff. Some of the most important things I do, I do very rarely, so Google will offer me this forum, but a logon to my Wordpress site is a much more important thing to find, even if it's not saving me much time by being readily available, so I'm old fashioned using favourites, bookmarks etc to keep my surfing organised. They can't guess what's important to me, they only know what I use most, which saves a little time but isn't that much real use.
 
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