Which Windows?

Major Eazy said:
If Windows 8 is supposed to be good, then they wouldn't need Windows 8.1, therefore if they do make 8.1 only a year after 8, that's saying something. Like suggesting Windows 8 is no good so they rush out a replacement, that being 8.1!!
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Going back to this quickly...

If anything I would expect to see more regular 0.1 increment OS levels now service packs have been abandoned.

Rumour (unconfirmed?) is 8.2 is coming first half 2014.
 
They are planning annual updates. No idea what this means to the server world as 8.1 was 2012 r2 and was a paid update and I believe you can't upgrade (not straight forward).
 
I'm a mac user, I think there's six devices here between the two of us. And we use Parallels on three machines in order to run an ancient Lotus application and Sage accounts :spit: under XP. If we were in a position of having to move away from XP for the sake of the accounts package, I think we would take a serious look at either a mac accounts package or an online accounts/bookkeeping package. Certainly worth researching. It would be a more elegant solution and do away with the need to regularly pay for Parallels updates - and paying for a new version of Windows.
 
2blue4u - check out xero :)
 
Dale_tem said:
2blue4u - check out xero :)
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I've heard of this before - and I've heard good things about it. I've just had a rummage around their site to see which VAT schemes it can handle and there is no mention of VAT whatsoever. Which is odd. And it's not cheap at £240 p.a..
 
Depends on the plan. It handles our vat returns, no idea if it does cash accounting though.
 
For accounting we use a http/PHP/MySQL solution - frontaccounting - which is free. I have it setup in a VM on my VM server. From memory, I think it's a Debian install but will run on any web server that has a decent web service, MySQL and PHP. It gives us everything we need, including the reporting that lets us do VAT returns (even though it isn't VAT "approved"). First set of accounts are due after January, so we'll see how complete it is then.... When we were looking at accounting packages, we (well, I) wanted something that ran from a web server to give us accessibility from any PC on the local network - we both enter data into it, so having something that runs on a single PC was very much a no-no.
 
Don't see the debate here. If you don't like the new UI on Windows 8.... just modify it. Like I said... download and install Start8. Bye Bye new interface..... hello desktop and start menu.
 
Pookeyhead said:
download and install Start8.
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I object to a $5 tax for every PC I want to run Win 8 on. It should be fixed by Microsoft.

It's not a lot, but it grates.
 
8.1 still goes via the metro style app though. I'd like win 7 way of working back please...
 
arad85 said:
I object to a $5 tax for every PC I want to run Win 8 on. It should be fixed by Microsoft.

It's not a lot, but it grates.
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Then use any of the FREE ones then....

http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...e-apps-to-bring-the-start-button-back-1143117


I only recommend Start8 because it's flawless in it's operation, and the only one I can personally recommend. There are others... free ones.

No excuse.

arad85 said:
8.1 still goes via the metro style app though. I'd like win 7 way of working back please...
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OMG.. do people actually read the thread?? LOL

Just install one of the many apps that put it all back... Jeez! Then you have a choice of both.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Then use any of the FREE ones then....
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Thanks. Just setting up my first Win8 PC here. Trying Classic Shell

Pookeyhead said:
Just install one of the many apps that put it all back... Jeez! Then you have a choice of both.
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Will do on new installs, but 7 is fine for the moment for most everything I do :)

The point is, you shouldn't have to mod the interface at this lowest level. Whether you can or not is immaterial - it should come with these choices out of the box, not via a third party mod which may break on an update.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on a button that makes an arbitrary list of programs appear at the bottom left of your screen. On Windows 8/8.1 you just hit the WIN key and start typing what you want, then hit enter and the program launches. Much faster. You can customise the Start Screen as you wish to act as a launcher if you prefer to click on icons. I've been running Windows 8 since the first internal alpha build within Microsoft and it's excellent. Faster on the same hardware as 7, lower power consumption, more secure - it's a great OS.
 
landwomble said:
I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on a button that makes an arbitrary list of programs appear at the bottom left of your screen.
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Irrelevant whether you understand or not. Some people do, because it's a practised and familiar workflow. I prefer a start menu. I hate Metro. It's called choice. Typing to search for a programme sucks - but eve if you disagree... you simply start typing in the search box of the the old start menu, and it behaves the same way... Hit Win (brings up start menu) and start typing.. there's NO difference between Win 7 and Win 8 :)

Some people just prefer to boot into a desktop, not a garishly coloured mass of tiles. I also have a dock installed like Mac OS so I can launch all my most used apps with a single click, and that requires the desktop to work.

If I had a Windows tablet, I'd probably use Metro. MS should give the choice... like the third party developers are giving you...

Just download a start menu App... easy. Win 8 is good, no matter what UI you prefer.
 
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neil_g said:
Going back to this quickly...

If anything I would expect to see more regular 0.1 increment OS levels now service packs have been abandoned.

Rumour (unconfirmed?) is 8.2 is coming first half 2014.
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Oh no, no, no, no way!!!

They should design, write, test, and release a new OS that should work from the start, not try to fix or improve it by releasing a 0.1 increment!! Don't they know that not everyone can afford unlimited data allowance? I hate wasting my data allowance on every updates.. Whenever iTunes release a 0.1 increment, I don't bother downloading until it is the next version i would rather have Windows 7 then wait until something like Windows 9 or 10 than have Windows 8 then 8.1 then 8.2 then 8.3..

Who knows how long it will be before Microsoft do something like relase Window 8.2.1.1 like Apple do?!
 
landwomble said:
I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on a button that makes an arbitrary list of programs appear at the bottom left of your screen.
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Because I don't want the whole of my desktop taken up by the start menu every time I want to use it. I just want to hit the windows key and a little box to pop up that I can type in. That is all.
 
With Win 8.1 a PC can be booted straight to the desktop; no need to see the garish squares. And the desktop and/or taskbar can be populated with program and file icons. Want to see every program installed on the PC? click the desktop button (aka start button) and click on the little down-arrow, bottom left-hand area and there they are - a much better visual layout which can be sorted in various ways.

Is it different - yes - a bit, but not that different. And with Win 8.1 being faster and leaner it really is a better option. My opinion of course, but having used DOS since 2.2 and all flavours of Windows since 3.1 (excluding ME [not totally mad you know]) I am well pleased with Win 8.1

Anthony.
 
I have Win 7 X64 and XP pro.

Win 7 for tog editing and XP Pro for other stuff like accounting, Word etc
 
2blue4u said:
I've heard of this before - and I've heard good things about it. I've just had a rummage around their site to see which VAT schemes it can handle and there is no mention of VAT whatsoever. Which is odd. And it's not cheap at £240 p.a..
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You've obviously never upgraded sage or had to use their support. Works out about £500 a year.

Xero is the best tool out there, if you just want invoices, look at Ronin.
 
neil_g said:
Nobody is forcing you to update..
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I agree, I update if I want to or don't update if I don't want to.

But I read somewhere that the new Windows 8.1 is going to make updates automatic. The way someone wrote this item in the magazine, it sounds like a case of like it or not, updates is automatic.

Hope the reporter is wrong and there is an option to turn it off.
 
Updates have always been regular - service packs. The cadence is increasing and I would expect approximately yearly updates along the lines of the 8->8.1 update. Apple have been doing this for some time and I'd expect point releases to likely be free. You don't have to apply updates immediately but it seems silly not to take advantage of them. Also bear in mind that you want to remain on a supported version of the OS. If you're on XP, it dies in April...
 
To the OP, should he still be reading. ;) Win 8 may be a leaner, quicker OS than Win 7, but would the difference be that noticeable for occasional use, especially when put up against the extra time that may be needed to learn and/or customise Win8. I teach basic IT, and the few times I have had a play with a Win 8 machine, it it has left me confused and frustrated. :shrug: :bang: I knew how to use XP, so I knew how to use Vista, and in turn I knew how to use Win 7. Win 8! :shrug:

What does your wife think, seeing as the aim is for her to use it? She already knows how to use Win 7 because she knows how to use XP. Would the sight of Win 8 pique her interest to get into it all, or fill her with dread? :shrug: Bear in mind that any time needed to learn Win 8 is cutting into time the computer can be used for other tasks.
 
Newcomers pick up 8 quicker than any other version.

It is quicker to use, not just performs quicker.

If you are confused then you are trying to do it the old way and can't. There are methods which came on with 7 that not a lot of people used, these have become even more useful in 8. If you are still trying to use Windows like XP (the way you can't do it in 8) then you are doing it the slow way and there are quicker ways in even in 7.

8 isn't as radical as people think, some of the changes people don't like came in in vista or 7 and the old way has been blocked in 8.

The only real change in 8 is full screen start and different way to shutdown/restart etc. apart from that it works like 7 if you use 7 like you should.
 
If you are elderly or one of those people whole who don't like change go with windows 7
 
Dale_tem said:
Newcomers pick up 8 quicker than any other version.
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But on a desktop, there are more people who will have used a previous version of Windows than will ever use a Win machine as a new user. :shrug:

There was no need not to have a user interface built into Win 8 to work as a previous version of Windows in an easy way imho, especially when there are people producing different workarounds, interfaces or hacks very easily to do just that.

I mentioned earlier that I work as an IT Tutor, and I have older people (because I work with Adults) telling me that they don't have a clue with Win 8. I can't really help them as I don't have Win 8, and so experience of it, and we don't have Win 8 machines in work. (We still have XP btw :lol:) Some of the learners don't have friends or family who may have a idea about Win 8, and if they do they may no have the time or patience to help them change to the different interface. :shrug: New user may pick up Win 8 quicker that previous Windows. :shrug:

A choice of a familiar interface for those users who want it should have been implemented. Yes, M$ may want everyone to use this new UI, to try and capture phone and tablet users with a similar interface, because they are the quickest growing markets, but they are forcing some (older) people away from computers, nevermind just away from Win 8. Once a PC is bought with Win 8, some people don't have the finances to change to Win 7, or maybe don't have the technical knowledge to change Win 8 to look like something they may have been used to.
 
People in not knowing how to use something new until theyve learnt to shocker?

No offence but as a tutor, should you not be completely up to date with latest os?
 
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neil_g said:
No offence but as a tutor, should you not be completely up to date with latest os?
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Yes, in theory, but I need to know about what the majority of learners use, and I can't be up to date with everything. :shrug: There may be a time when I need to know more about Win 8, but most learning establishments are not embracing Win 8 in numbers yet. I get to know programs because I use them at work, or will use them at work, and I learn the programs I use in my personal life. So far Win 8 doesn't come into any of that. :shrug:
 
If you've not used it, I can't really see how you can comment TBH. Take a similar example - when Office changed to the Ribbon interface with 2007. People kicked up a fuss, moaned, wanted the old version back etc. However, the change was based on an insane amount of research, live user telemetry on most used features, shortest routes to functions etc. You'd have to be made to think that when you're a company whose cash cow product is installed on over 5 BILLION desktops worldwide that you wouldn't base your changes on very strong research and analysis, as opposed to a whim...
 
neil_g said:
Fair enough. I guess I just thought that as someone people like the elderly like you mentioned came to for advice it'd be in your remit to know.
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I give as much advice as I can, but explaining, showing and demonstrating something is a lot easier than just trying to explain something as an abstract. I get asked about Apple computers too, again we don't use them in work, I don't have one, and most learning establishments, at the lower level, don't use Apple computers either. :shrug: I get asked about Twitter, but have no interest in it and we don't run classes about it. Same with Facebook, Skype etc. Like I said, I can't know everything. :shrug: I give extracurricular advice when I can, and feel I can help the person asking. :shrug:
 
We see Windows 8 being embraced a lot faster than previously thought. Schools and such are specifically requesting Windows 8, which is good to see :)

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Talk Photography Forums mobile app
 
redsnappa said:
If you are elderly or one of those people whole who don't like change go with windows 7
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Please define elderly.

If it helps, I am 68 in two weeks and I am an advocate for Win 8.1 - am I elderly? Are you ageist? :-) :-)

Anthony.
 
landwomble said:
Updates have always been regular - service packs. The cadence is increasing and I would expect approximately yearly updates along the lines of the 8->8.1 update. Apple have been doing this for some time and I'd expect point releases to likely be free. You don't have to apply updates immediately but it seems silly not to take advantage of them. Also bear in mind that you want to remain on a supported version of the OS. If you're on XP, it dies in April...
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My Windows 98 lasted me 15 years and it is still in good working order.

Just because Microsoft is going to stop support for XP in April, I don't think it means XP will "die".
 
Well, you might not think that. However there will be zero patches or security updates for it, and it's highly likely that all the virus and malware authors will have been saving up their exploits for post 14th April so MS doesn't release a patch for them. So on the 15th April you are going to be absolutely open season to anyone and everyone. If you're connected to the internet this is madness and you *will* get hacked...

As a real-world example, with XP, just before SP1 was released which included automatic firewall turned on by default, if you did a clean install of XP on an internet-connected PC, you could expect to be exploited within about 7 minutes from finishing installation at one point...
 
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