Which speedlight?

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Danny133

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Daniel
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I'd like to start learning indoor portraits so want to buy a speedlight.

Which one shall I buy?

I looked at the 430 II its £175 brand new on eBay .. Any good or do I need 580?
 
Both are brilliant - the 580 is more powerful, but bigger and heavier.
I would say that the 580 is worth the extra, as you MAY at some stage find yourself needing the extra power, but do you have the money spare ?
If you do, and would not be better off using the spare cash towards some sort of umbrella, softbox or whatever, then go for it. However, portraits often call for more than just a flash, so a stand and umbrella plus some sort of remote trigger might be worth looking into.
I know nothing about other makes of flash but it might be worth looking into other cheaper alternatives if you don't intend to use it much.
 
I'm happy with cheaper ones but not a clue what I need lol. I just wanna shoot portraits :)
 
The 430 only rotaes 90deg in one direction. This may be ok for you, but it does limit portraits as that's the way it is limited (if I remember correctly). This will mean with a 430 you won't be able to bounce off something above and behind you when doing flash bouncing.

Once you have one, you'll never even think of using the inbuilt flash again.... the pictures are that much better.
 
arad85 said:
The 430 only rotaes 90deg in one direction. This may be ok for you, but it does limit portraits as that's the way it is limited (if I remember correctly). This will mean with a 430 you won't be able to bounce off something above and behind you when doing flash bouncing.

Once you have one, you'll never even think of using the inbuilt flash again.... the pictures are that much better.
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I don't think that's quite right. It will rotate at up 90deg, but can rotate left to right 3/4 of the way around, so you can get it to bounce back from behind etc fairly easily.

I'm in a similar position to the OP and went for the 430exII, an umbrella and remote trigger YN RF602s (flash in the pan on here will do them, or ebay). Personally, and I'm only just starting, but am enjoying having the flash off camera, it's great to experiment with so if getting the 580 meant no remote triggers, I'd get the 430 and remote triggers (or get the 430 and save up for the remote triggers).

Enjoy

Al
 
Sorry does the 580 need no triggers you say?

And the 430 does?
 
akr said:
I don't think that's quite right. It will rotate at up 90deg, but can rotate left to right 3/4 of the way around, so you can get it to bounce back from behind etc fairly easily.
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No, the head rotates 180 degrees to the left and 90 degrees to the right. This means if you are holding the camera in the "traditional" portrait mode, you can't fire the flash at anything more than above you. You can't bounce it over your left shoulder for example. A stupid limitation - and if you were going to limit it, why not do it the other way around?

The 580 goes 180 deg both ways.
 
Danny133 said:
Sorry does the 580 need no triggers you say?

And the 430 does?
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580/430 require the same in triggering. The 580 can act as a master flash, the 430 can't (but then you'd need more than one of the quite expensive flash units to worry about that anyway).
 
What does more does less, I started with a 580EX2 and at the point I wanted a 2nd flash I bought another 580EX2. I could have got away with a 430EX2 but I have on 2 occasions needed to swap the flash over as it is quicker than swapping batteries and got my sister to change batteries in it so I could continue shooting.
The master control is quite good with that you don't need radio triggers to fire a 2nd flash.
 
So no matter what flash I buy I'll need a trigger? So I could buy the cheaper unit?

What do I need?

Flash
Trigger
Background
 
Brolly.
Perhaps a reflector and stand. You can DIY if you like.

Have a look at the "Indoor Basics" video demo/tutorial available for free download from - https://fridayphotoschool.com/dl/.

If you're not already a member all you need to do is to register for free in order to gain access.
 
That's the problem lol do I need a speedlight with a stand and brolley?

Obv as well as trigger .. I need a list and it needs to be cheap lol
 
What you need depends on what you want to accomplish. Since you're talking about "portraits" and "backgrounds" then I figure you want to set up some sort of studio type shoot, even if rudimentary in nature. While you can get by on bouncing and reflecting, if you have a suitable surface off which to bounce, I think the realistic bare minimum is to get the flash off camera, onto a stand, and use a brolly to soften the light.

If you want to see some really basic examples of bouncing the flash for a simple portrait shot then have a look at the video here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUZixpP0pk. It starts out discussing outdoor fill flash, and then moves on to talk about indoor flash and bouncing.

I suggest you browse YouTube for some further examples of "one light portraits" and see how people approach the task.
 
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I basically want a White or black background with a subject in front.

That's it lol.

Please write me a sensible shopping list
 
If you don't have a stand your limited to someoen holding the flash off camera for you, you can use a tripod if you have one as most triggers seem to have a screw in the bottom. i know the RF602's do.

stands are cheap, I have 2 of these £12
Wireless trigger £25 see flash in the pan for the RF 602 they work fine for me.
umbrellas are pretty cheap about £6 each from hong kong sellers on ebay or again flash in the pan.
You need somthing to fasten the flash to the stand usually about £7

If all your doing is off camera flash then you can save a fortune with the flash guns buying the chinese ones from either ebay or flash in the pan.

I just bought a set of someone on here, about £100 2 stands, brollies, and a pair of old manual canon flashes. you could use any flash guns as long as their trigger voltage isn't too high.

These are what I have, I have since bought some of the RF602 triggers
25471_379847273386_673418386_3868660_1696602_n.jpg
 
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Great so flash to the pan can sell me it all?

I need

1 stand
1 trigger
1 umbrella
1 flash

That it yeah? I'll send him list lol

And thanks very much for your help :)
 
Danny, for properly white backgrounds you will need additional lighting to light the background separately from the subject. At a pinch you might squeeze by with one background light, for headshots or similar, but for full length you'll need a couple of lights for the background alone if you want it evenly lit. For a black background you might not need lighting for the background itself, but you will need to know how to prevent spill from your main light from screwing with the backgeound if you want it to remain black.

If you want to get creative with your lighting for the subject you might be looking at independent lights for main/key and fill, perhaps another hair/slash light, maybe kickers for separation. You'll want different lighting setups (not necessarily equipment) for men vs women, blond(e) vs dark. Then there are different light modifiers to control the light in different ways to achieve different effects. You've got your basic shootthru brolly, bounce brolly, softbox/octabox with/without grid, spill kill with/without grid, snoot, beauty dish and more.

I'm far from experienced in all this, but I don't think that having someone write you a shopping list will help if you don't understand how to use the gear. You'll need to understand about hard light vs soft, controlling contrast and shadow, falloff, and that's just the lighting. Then there is posing to consider as well. Seriously I'd do some more reading up and watching videos and once you have a better understanding of how things work you can figure out what you might need.
 
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I undersand what I need and watched so many vids lol but I just don't want all top brand canon stuff as it's pricey Plus I'm on iPhone as sky havt connected net at new house yet :(
 
I have the 430ex and the 580exII here as well as a newly purchased Nissin Di866, the Nissin does everything the 580exII does and a bit more but for 430 money.
 
Danny133 said:
So no matter what flash I buy I'll need a trigger? So I could buy the cheaper unit?

What do I need?

Flash
Trigger
Background
Click to expand...

Danny133 said:
That's the problem lol do I need a speedlight with a stand and brolley?

Obv as well as trigger .. I need a list and it needs to be cheap lol
Click to expand...

Danny133 said:
I basically want a White or black background with a subject in front.

That's it lol.

Please write me a sensible shopping list
Click to expand...

Danny133 said:
Great so flash to the pan can sell me it all?

I need

1 stand
1 trigger
1 umbrella
1 flash

That it yeah? I'll send him list lol

And thanks very much for your help :)
Click to expand...

Danny133 said:
What about constant lights instead of strobes?
Click to expand...

Danny133 said:
I undersand what I need........(
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced that you do.
 
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Lol I don't think I do either :( I've seen so many vids and they all use something different! Arghhhh lol
 
Danny, they all use something different because there are so many ways to approach the problem. Personal preference comes into it as well as requiring very specific outcomes, and budget or course. Space is often a factor too. Plus, in the examples you may have seen, I guess people make use of what they've got. They might not have the perfect tool for the job, but can do well enough with something else. e.g. a softbox might be better to use than an umbrella, but an umbrella can often do a good enough job.

The minimum to get you started would be a single light on a stand with an umbrella, plus some sort of trigger. You don't need to spend Speedlite money since you will probably using the flash in manual mode. If you don't need mobility and the option to shoot outdoors on location then you may actually find studio lighting to be a better choice. Lencarta do an entry level two head kit for £250 delivered, including stands and basic modifiers - less than the price of a single 580EX.

But to know what kit you need you need to figure out what you want to achieve. The problem must be understood before the solution can be determined. Eiher that or you just buy a generic solution and work out what you can achieve with it. When you find something you want to do but cannot then it's time to look at adding more gear or learning new skills. By the sound of things it might be an idea to attend a portrait lighting class, or join in on a TP Studio shoot, which seem to be fairly popular. I've been on three so far, but none anywhere near Suffolk. Keep your eyes open in he Meetings forum.
 
How about then 2 continuous lights? Cheap and easy? Can be had for less than £100 the pair :)
 
My knowledge of continous lighting solutions is almost nil, having never tried them, but here goes....

Continuous light might be cheap, and it is easy in so far as you can easily see what you are doing, but compared to flash it is quite a weak light and will require slow shutter speeds and/or high ISO and/or wide apertures. With studio flash you can comfortably shoot at 1/125 (or faster), 100 ISO and f/8 upwards for zero blur/shake, zero noise and ample lens IQ and DOF. I doubt very much you'll be able to do that with continuous lighting unless you have an absolute shedload of it.

Then there's the issue of hot lights vs cold ones. Hot lights can make a room and your model very uncomfortable. Cold lights don't have that problem, but I don't think it is so cheap once you find you need significant power output.

This video explains the shortcomings of continuous lighting, in terms of power, and also shows (after a fashion) the value of a third light for hair when shooting a brunette (or any hair to be honest) against a dark background.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRH55WQ69eA

Also note that in the video Gavin is only doing head shots and head and shoulders. Try doing full length or group shots with a £100 continuous lighting kit.
 
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continuous lighting is useful in a lot of circumstances but takes away some elements of creative control (the seperate flash and ambient exposures for one)
 
Ok so defo flash on stand with brollys then. Just need to choose a set up!
 
Going off what you said in the what lens thread if your looking at being a portrait photographer then you really should be looking towards studio lights and not speed lights, start with a single head and you can add to it in the future, the options for light modifiers when you start adding additional lighting can really make a difference in your images as long as you learn how to use them.
 
Little John said:
Going off what you said in the what lens thread if your looking at being a portrait photographer then you really should be looking towards studio lights and not speed lights, start with a single head and you can add to it in the future, the options for light modifiers when you start adding additional lighting can really make a difference in your images as long as you learn how to use them.
Click to expand...

studio lights live in the studio unless you are operating battery powered ones which basically run like a big speedlight

studios far better than you can afford right now are rentable :D
 
I was looking at something I could set up at home basically so I can do portrait shots of the family and perhaps be mobile one day?
 
david1701 said:
studio lights live in the studio unless you are operating battery powered ones which basically run like a big speedlight

studios far better than you can afford right now are rentable :D
Click to expand...

In post #15 Danny says he wants to shoot in front of a black or white background, and he wants his own lights. That to me sounds like a "home studio" setup, even if only temporary/occasional. It doesn't really take any more effort to stick a studio head onto a light stand than a Speedlite, other than plugging in the mains lead. The benefits should outweigh the cons quite comfortably, I think.
 
tdodd said:
In post #15 Danny says he wants to shoot in front of a black or white background, and he wants his own lights. That to me sounds like a "home studio" setup, even if only temporary/occasional. It doesn't really take any more effort to stick a studio head onto a light stand than a Speedlite, other than plugging in the mains lead. The benefits should outweigh the cons quite comfortably, I think.
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missed the bg post, yeah up the budget by a few miles and buy some studio gear, mind you most home studio work is a bit of a hiding to nothing
 
Very true but, he hasn't really said much about what he is doing other than shooting portraits, well he didn't say that really either but if thats the route he is wanting to take then its better to wait and spend the £250 on what he really needs rather than £100+ on a flash gun, stand and brollie etc and discover that it isn't quite capable enough and put the £100 towards somthing he will be able to use.

The only time I use the canon flash guns is when there is no power where I need to be or if I'm only shooting 2 or 3 images other than that I use a pair of lastolite studio flashes.
 
its very much a decision in how you want to shoot, which route to take.

Studio gear is just better for studio work in every way. Speedlights are spectacular location lights where you want to work with the ambient and mould it as opposed to nuking it
 
I want to do home studio stuff yeah like small little bits.

But maybe take them out and shoot on location for a bit of experimental?

So I thought speedlights were best?
 
Danny, you really have to be clear on what you want to do in order for people to advise you on the best solution. Budget has a big influence as well. When you say you want to go out on location do you mean away from mains power, or simply to another house/building with mains available? If you want to take lighting with you out into the countryside, for example, then Speedlites or cheaper manual hotshoe flashes are the way to go. Of course you can spend a small mint on battery powered studio lights if you prefer and those will give you the full range of options in a single package.

FWIW I have studio lights and Speedlites. They both have their place because they both excel at different things. Whichever type of light I use, when I go off camera with the flash I shoot with manual flash rather than ETTL. That makes Speedlites needlessly expensive for that kind of shooting. However, when running and gunning and bouncing on camera flash, or providing on camera fill outdoors the ETTL of the Speedlites is a great convenience and one I would not wish to be without.
 
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FWIW i will probably be using them 99% of the time if not all of it - in my dining room with a big white sheet/vinyl/pop up whatever i buy to take full body portraits and headshots ..

That is it really.

Any other photos i do for fun will be just that so if they look kack ill delete em.

Danny
 
they look good but £420 for a pair ... plus i need umbrellas etc :( expensive ..
 
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